Re: Could there have been an abductor?

Autumn Wed 22 Feb - 1:20

kathybelle wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

There is no way on God's earth that Madeleine was abducted and only the brainwashed will believe she was. The McCanns were the ones who started this fairy tale and that was to cover their tracks.

Let's start with the lies the McCanns have told to save their own skins. After the McCanns told the police Madeleine had been abducted, the police asked them how the abductor entered the apartment. The McCanns said the apartment was locked and the only way the abductor could have entered and exited the apartment, was through the shutter, which had been jemmied by the abductor. The shutter was examined by a police officer and a Warner official and found to be intact. The McCanns then admitted they left their apartment unlocked. In the space of a few minutes, the McCanns had told 3 lies.

The McCanns and their friends, didn't bother looking for Madeleine, instead they trampled all over what was a crime scene and used the pages of Madeleine's book, to get their stories straight. Kate had told the police the shutter was closed when she and her husband went out, but open when she returned to check on the children. The shutter was checked for fingerprints, but the only fingerprints on the shutter, belonged to Kate McCann. There was enough evidence in the apartment to show Madeleine was harmed. An attempt had been made to clean the carpets and walls, but unfortunately whoever cleaned the carpet and walls, didn't do a good job, because residue was still there. Also there was blood that came from Madeleine, behind the sofa. The curtains had also been washed.

Then there was the cadaver scent on Kate McCanns clothing and two items of Madeleine's clothing. Cuddle Cat also had cadaver scent on him. Cat. Kate said the cadaver scent on her clothing was from 6 deaths she attended, in the 1½ days she worked before she went on holiday. She said the soft toy had cadaver scent on it, because she always took it to work with her. Jon Corner bought Cuddle cat for Madeleine's birthday and he gave her the soft toy, just before they left for PDL, because he wasn't going to see her on her birthday. I never saw any explanation for the cadaver scent on Madeleine's clothing. Incidently there was no cadaver scent on Gerry's clothing or Sean and Amalie's clothing.

Sorry Mary B. you really do need to read the files and scour the internet for transcripts of the McCanns interviews or better still, go to "You Tube" and listen to the McCanns interviews. Once you have done this, you will soon see why the McCanns are more involved with Madeleine's disappearance than neglect and you will soon see that the abduction story is nothing but a fairy tale.

Thats good advice Kathybelle. Im not sure if Mary B is being serious or not. I'm struggling to understand how anyone who has followed this case for a few years and gone to the trouble of joining this forum, can know so little about the basics.

Guest Wed 22 Feb - 12:26

MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

keepingmum Wed 22 Feb - 12:43

I just want to answer the question. No.

**margaret** Wed 22 Feb - 13:10

mossman wrote:
margaret wrote: Wonder if it was grey and JT had asked for a favour....

Margaret - it was grey When i searched there are some references to it being blue, on different forums that came back through google but below is from the pj files:

Processos Volume 11

Pages 2726 to 2737

Letter 6 August 2007 regarding a diligence re: rental car of James Gorrod, along with copy of
vehicle rental contract

Today and under orders from higher authority, the signatory went to the premises of the SIXT rent-
a-car company in the Faro airport, in order to identify and locate the vehicle that will have been
rented on 28 April 2007 by an individual named James Gorrod.
At the counter of the said rent-a-car [company] it was confirmed that on the referred date, at
20h06, there was delivered to the referenced person [personal details given] an Opel Corsa, colour
grey, licence 75-AG-62.

Thanks for that, this may be really important......

I noticed ann-chovey said: Address used to hire it was a London, not Exeter address. A few weeks ago l was looking at car rental forms and someone else had a London address, why would you do that??

**margaret** Wed 22 Feb - 13:18

Nope. Wires crossed. It WAS Gorrod who had the London address, but both him and Gerry had the wrong addresses on their driving licences....

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/post?p=364947&mode=quote

margaret wrote:Tell you something else strange about these car hire forms....

James Gorrods hire agreements are in there (he was the man questioned about having a child seat in a car which he returned to airport on 6/5/07 - alledgedly the child seat wasn't in it when it was hired)

The first form is a Europcar one listing his address as Egham Avenue, Exeter (2 streets away from where Jane Tanner & Russell O'Brien lived)

The second form is the one where they take your drivers licence details, his address is listed as Knox House, London

Why was his drivers licence listed as him living somewhere else? That's both him and Gerry who haven't informed the DVLA they've moved addresses??

Article where it says James Gorrod lives near Tanner
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-475126/Sickened-parents-Madeleine-McCann-showdown-Portuguese-police.html

The Gorrods, who knew one of the couples on holiday with the McCanns, joined the search for Madeleine in the hours following her disappearance in May.

But three months later, the solicitor found himself under investigation and his Portuguese rental car being impounded for examination.

This led to speculation that a 'mystery' Briton might be linked to Madeleine's disappearance.

But Mrs Gorrod described the speculation as "ridiculous" and said detectives had cleared them of any involvement.

Her husband is said to have come under suspicion at a car hire office when he returned his vehicle two days after Madeleine went missing.

It is understood staff at the Sixt car hire office at Faro Airport thought it odd that a man on his own was returning a car with a rented baby seat.

The staff's concerns were farcical and could easily have been checked out, say the couple, because Mr Gorrod had dropped his family and luggage at the entrance to the busy airport before returning the car.

But the hire firm reported its concerns to police and waited to be contacted.

Astonishingly, it took three months for police to ask for the blue Opel Corsa, which had been rented out to at least six more customers since then, to be examined.

Yesterday, Mr Gorrod was revealed to be the mystery British driver being sought for questioning by the Policia Judiciaria.

He immediately issued a statementproclaiming his innocence and insisted a British detective had told him he had 'nothing to worry about'.

He said: "A British police officer directly liaising with the Portuguese investigation team recently contacted me to eliminate the vehicle I hired for the holiday.

"The car has been identified and I have been told by the British police officer that he has no plans to interview me or my family.

"We are of course deeply saddened by Madeline's disappearance and hope for her safe return."

Mr and Mrs Gorrod already knew two of the McCann group, Dr Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner because they live two streets away in Exeter and have a child of the same age.

But the Gorrods said they did not know they would be in the same resort and they did not travel with the Mark Warner holiday company or stay at the Ocean Club apartments.

During the week in Praia da Luz, they are said to have 'occasionally' bumped into their friends but never met Gerry and Kate McCann.

Velvet Wed 22 Feb - 19:15

Iris wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

**MaryB** Wed 22 Feb - 20:05

I don't know of any child aged three who has been snatched and then found alive years later. Maybe I have overlooked something.
And no child has been snatched from a holiday apartment. Well I expect not that many children are left alone in apartments on holiday as much as we are told otherwise that everybody does it.

kathybelle Wed 22 Feb - 20:28

MaryB wrote:I don't know of any child aged three who has been snatched and then found alive years later. Maybe I have overlooked something.
And no child has been snatched from a holiday apartment. Well I expect not that many children are left alone in apartments on holiday as much as we are told otherwise that everybody does it.

Hello MaryB, I want to apologise for my reply to you. I replied in the way I did, because I misunderstood your post. I thought you believed Madeleine had been abducted and I wanted to say why she couldn't have been abducted.

Kate McCann said she believed Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, but is still alive. We all know what happens to a child, when a paedophile gets their hands on them and a child of Madeleine's age would not survive such an attack. Kate said in her book, what she imagines a paedophile is doing to Madeleine's tiny genitals, yet since writing that passage in her book, she still insists Madeleine is with a paedophile but still alive.

I really do hope that Goncalo Amaral, keeps to his word when he says he is going to call the McCanns to the witness stand, when their lawsuit against him begins. The McCanns were vilified in court and outside the court, when they were trying to get Dr Amaral's book permanently banned. I know Dr Amaral lost the first round, but he managed to get the ban overturned at the appeals court and when the McCanns tried to get the ban reinstated at the Supreme Court, the Judge found in favour of Dr Amaral.

I like to think the Judges in the Appeals and Supreme Court, had read all the McCanns statements, as well as the files and this is why they came to the correct decision, when they found in favour of Dr Amaral.

Hopefully the Judge in the McCanns forthcoming lawsuit against Dr Amaral, will also find in favour of Dr Amaral.

**MaryB** Wed 22 Feb - 20:40

That's OK Kathybelle and I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. I asked myself that question because that was the title of this thread. Anyway I suppose the police and everybody else involved have to ask that question. And come to a conclusion based on indications and facts. And witness statements and lots of other things. I read somewhere that the police often decide what has happened but don't have any hard evidence to prove it. And that evidence has to be looked for over and over again pieced together then presented for a case in a court of law. And every line of possibility has to be explored. I hope the review will do that. Sometimes in a cold case review a police re-construction is done. I have seen this done on Crimewatch. Wonder if it will be done in this case.

**dazedandconfused** Wed 22 Feb - 21:23

Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

I think that the McCanns were going along the line of an abductor looking for self gratification as they did harp on about paedophiles at the very beginning, though Kate alternatively didn't think Madeleine had come to any harm and then in her book wrote the unbelievable section about Madeleine's perfect little genitals being violated. If only they hadn't written so many conflicting statements, if only they hadn't written the impossible timelines on Madeleine's sticker book, if only they had actually spent days on end with endless searching and if only the dogs hadn't indicated as they did, if only they didn't look so darned happy in the following few days, they might just have all of us feeling their loss and pain.

Guest Wed 22 Feb - 21:41

Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

matthew Wed 22 Feb - 22:18

The abductor we are told to believe in,who could literally fly into an apartment leaving no evidence what so ever & could morph from an egg to a bundle of hair with protruding teeth...he could even make him/herself look like gerry Could there have been an abductor? - Page 4 25346

Could there have been an abductor? - Page 4 25346

would be only to ready to make this a regular occurence...so err erm no abductor for me thankyou very much

Velvet Thu 23 Feb - 18:57

Iris wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

ok Iris so what about the others?

**dazedandconfused** Thu 23 Feb - 19:06

Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

ok Iris so what about the others?

Hmm Brian David Mitchell also abused his own children and step children and also turned to religion and was often seen around Salt Lake City begging for money. The latter reminds me of some other money beggars but can't quite think who at the moment. So in his case Elizabeth Smart wasn't a one off and he had other children to use and abuse both before and after abducting her.

Velvet Thu 23 Feb - 19:11

dazedandconfused wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

ok Iris so what about the others?

Hmm Brian David Mitchell also abused his own children and step children and also turned to religion and was often seen around Salt Lake City begging for money. The latter reminds me of some other money beggars but can't quite think who at the moment. So in his case Elizabeth Smart wasn't a one off and he had other children to use and abuse both before and after abducting her.

Did he abduct anyone else ?

**dazedandconfused** Thu 23 Feb - 19:25

Velvet wrote:
dazedandconfused wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
Velvet wrote:

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

ok Iris so what about the others?

Hmm Brian David Mitchell also abused his own children and step children and also turned to religion and was often seen around Salt Lake City begging for money. The latter reminds me of some other money beggars but can't quite think who at the moment. So in his case Elizabeth Smart wasn't a one off and he had other children to use and abuse both before and after abducting her.

Did he abduct anyone else ?

He abducted his own children from his first marriage so, yes, he did.

**margaret** Fri 24 Feb - 9:41

Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
MaryB wrote:Could there have been an Abductor? Big question. But this abductor has been very efficient. And I read in the early days that those child abductors always strike again. Like serial killers. And I have never ever understood that if such a dangerous person was at large then why was the case closed and why has it taken four years for the review. Surely there would be an urgency to catch this dangerous individual before another child suffers.

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

ok Iris so what about the others?

Did any of those abduct a nearly 4 year old child though?

gillyspot Fri 24 Feb - 10:15

margaret wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:
Velvet wrote:
Iris wrote:

Exactly, Mary. They don't "do" one-off jobs. Why haven't there been any other similar cases, before or since?

Abductors working in child trafficking don't do one off jobs. Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do, such as Wolfgang Priklopil who abducted Natascha Kampusch, Brian David Mitchell who abducted Elizabeth Smart and Michael J. Devlin who abducted Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Ownby.

So not a one-off, then.

ok Iris so what about the others?

"Abductors who do it for their own gratification sometimes do" - say this is true how does this fit in with the McCanns' constant bleat that "no evidence of harm" to Madeleine.

Natasha Kampusch was 10, Elizabeth Smart was 14, Shawn Hornbeck was 10 & Ben Ownby was 13. None were anywhere near aged 4.

Did any of those abduct a nearly 4 year old child though?

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