fiona payne admits she didnt check on the baby and other terrible parenting!!!!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

485: "Tell me what you did Sunday?"
Reply: "Well, I mean, this is, phew, where it's very hard to pick out each, each day now, I probably had more idea then, and I don't know how much of that will be in my first interview, that might be something that's been said, but, huh, I think because every day was very similar".

--

1485: "Do you know who their Nanny was or who looked after them?"
Reply: "Well L***, yeah, I don't know who her, I don't, the, key workers were any more, I can't remember the names. Yeah, L*** went to the toddler club and E**e and G***e and Sean and Amelie were, were all in the same room. I knew some of the names of the Nannies there but I don't who her key worker was. And Scarlet, again, I can't remember the name of the girl who was, who was looking after Scarlet. There was only kind of two babies in the baby room and about three, huh, carers, again, it was very quiet. Once they were dropped off, as I said, we, we, I'd walked down to the beach on my own and meet Dave there, for our lesson. I can't remember which started first, I think the wind surfing was on the, would have been on the Sunday and then it sort of alternated each day between sailing and wind surfing. But because of the weather conditions, they weren't very good for wind surfing, so we ended up doing I think on the actual Thursday we should have been doing wind surfing and we actually did sailing, because there was no wind, but then it was very rough. So that, as I say, things did".

--

1485: "Try and put yourself there and try and remember how long you think you stayed down at the beach on the first day, on the Sunday".
Reply: "Umm".

1485: "You know, now you have managed to remember that, you know, the sailing conditions wasn't that good".
Reply: "Yeah".

1485: "Try and remember how long you stayed down there, what time you think you left?"
Reply: "Yeah, I think the Sunday, the first day, we did go out on the wind surfers and sort of battled through it a bit, but we were cold and they didn't have full length wetsuits, I remember I actually wanted to come in, because I was absolutely freezing a bit before the end, because I think it ended at half eleven, eleven, half eleven. Again, the times of this have just dimmed with, with the period of time that's passed, and it all sort of depends on when the creche finishes. I suppose that will all be known anyway. But, we, we generally tried to get out of the water half an hour before the creche was due to finish and then we'd just get dried and then obviously go and pick them up. So I think that first Sunday we, we came out a bit earlier than we, later on in the week, would have, because we were cold, and just sort of dried off and sat there, but, and then would have gone to pick the kids up, again, I'd generally go and get Scarlet and Dave would then go and get L***".

1485: "Uh hu".
Reply: "And I think it finished at half eleven or twelve, that sort of time. Yeah, so that, that Sunday was slightly different to the others, I think".


00.45.41
1485: "What would you do after eleven then?"
Reply: "Just, as I said, we'd just dry off, get the wetsuits washed and put away".
1485: "Pick the kids up?"

Reply: "Pick the kids up".
1485: "And then do what?"
Reply: "And then go straight back to the apartment, for lunch, we'd feed the kids there".

1485: "Did anybody else on that day, the first day, come to".
Reply: "On the Sunday".

1485: "Come to your apartment for lunch?"
Reply: "I'm sure they did, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think every, I think every lunch, bar the Thursday, we had people in the apartment having lunch. And my mum generally was the sandwich maker, that was a bit of a joke for the week, she'd took it upon herself to do loads of shopping, while we were sort of sailing and stuff, she, she'd go to the Supermarket and get loads of, loads of provisions in and she'd be making piles of baguettes and, and everyone would generally descend on ours and demolish the lot. We just all mucked in to cook for the kids, we generally tried to give them a hot, a hot lunch and, people would just donate whatever was in their apartment".

1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "So, yeah, I don't think Sunday was any different in that regard, we ate at ours".

--

1485: "Tell me about what you can remember about the early evening, leading up to the time that you put your children to bed?"
Reply: "On the Sunday?"

00.47.11
1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "Phew, again, I, I can't remember specifically Sunday. All I can say is, on the whole, we would just go down and play with the kids. I mean, our kids would sleep until sort of half three, often four o'clock, often we were getting them up a bit earlier, walking them up just to have a bit of a playtime before the tea. But we generally in the evening we would just go down to the play area by the Tapas Bar. And on a couple of, on a couple of occasions we took them to the beach late afternoon if the weather was nice and I couldn't tell you".

--

00.50.58
1485: "I know I am being persistent here".
Reply: "I know".

1485: "But I need to put you back on Sunday because I need the chronological order through the week".
Reply: "Umm".

--

Reply: "Yeah, I mean, our night-time was, I think, from the Sunday, it was, it would be much the same. After the play area they started to tire, around sort of half seven we would, go back and get them bathed, they'd have a bath every night, get them ready for bed, have milk and a story and straight to bed. Depending on who was playing the tennis depended on which two of us would go back, out of me, my mum and Dave, to actually sort the kids out, we didn't always leave altogether, but, as I say, it would be two out of the three that would come back. On the Sunday, huh, as I say, I can't remember who, out of the three of us, would sort the kids. But, if I knew what the tennis nights were, which I'm sure MARK WARNER could find out, that would help actually, because that would probably spark some memory".

--

And so it wasn't really until the Sunday, I think, that we, we sort of realised you could eat at the Tapas Bar. And I think, we just looked at it and it, it did feel like you were kind of across, in your back garden, admittedly, a large back garden, but a back garden, and we just thought well that's great, we can just sort of, easily nip across and check the children on a regular basis and, everyone felt sort of quite happy and comfortable with, with that, and we didn't really, there wasn't a lot of sort of humming and hawing that went on over, over that. I mean, I had, I wasn't aware of the decision to book it for the whole week, I think that had just happened when, when Rachael went to see if it was available for the, for the Sunday night and was told, that you had to sort of book ahead, it wasn't something that we got together and pre-decided that that's what we should do, it was just Rachael, I think it was Rachael that had done it and we were all like 'Oh that's great, that's easy, we don't have to worry about it any more, we'll just eat there every night' and that was the last we thought about it".

1485: "Right".
Reply: "We just thought that was convenient and that would work".

1485: "So you weren't actually instrumental in the planning of the evenings entertainment, shall I say?"
Reply: "No, no".

--

1485: "Yeah. Back to the Tapas night".
Reply: "Umm".
1485: "The Sunday night. I know, like you say, I know this is groundhog day".
Reply: "Umm".

1485: "But you referred earlier on to the relaying of people going to check their kids but you didn't have to?"
Reply: "Umm".

1485: "So try and put yourself back to the first night that you actually dined at the Tapas".
Reply: "Umm".

1485: "And try and remember, if you can remember who actually started to go to look at their children first, that it might trigger the rest of your mind to, the order".
Reply: "Umm".

1485: "All I'm after really is order and times".
Reply: "Umm".

01.04.29
1485: "Or distance between".
Reply: "Of the Sunday night?"

1485: "Yeah. Distance between when people went to, you know".
Reply: "I know that, I can only give a general feeling".

1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "Because I've got no idea who went first and, to be completely honest, I didn't at the time. But I'd say on, on the first few nights it all seemed, fairly well spaced, like people going together, that was just a feeling, a general feeling that I'm giving you. Whereas, again, that differed on the Thursday night, in that, it seemed more, out of, people were more out of synch. But I think that's because we all arrived at different times, whereas, generally, we were a bit more on time at the beginning of the week".

1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "People were going, more sort of nine o'clock, then it'd be half nine and, I remember people clock watching, doing that. I didn't have any idea of time, I wasn't wearing a watch, I didn't have a mobile and I wasn't going up to check our children".

1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "So I can only say, I was quite conscious other people were doing that, but I wasn't part of that. But, people were very stringent about getting, as I say, clock watching and making sure they went".

1485: "Would you say that all of the group, bar yourself, generally would go checking?"
Reply: "Sorry, the group that were with me?"

1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "What, you mean, in terms of some people going more than others or?"

1485: "Yeah, generally speaking".
Reply: "Yeah".

01.06.01
1485: "I mean, because you have got a party of nine, haven't you?"
Reply: "Yeah, yeah".

1485: "Would all nine do the checking at some point?"
Reply: "No, Dave and I and my mother never checked anybody
edit their baby was not sick but still leaving a baby on its own and not checking on it is neglect!!!
1485: "Sorry, minus yourselves, yeah".
Reply: "I guess some people were doing more checking and it tended to be the men doing, again, this is a feeling, it seemed to be they did a lot more sort of upping and downing, than, than the women perhaps. I mean, Gerry and Russell".

1485: "Gerry and Russell?"
Reply: "Yeah, I don't know, they, again, a feeling, is they probably did a bit more checking than the girls did. I couldn't, I couldn't be more specific about that. There was, I'm trying to think if anyone was ill on the Sunday night actually, because we had a bit of illness in the group as well and there were nights, I think, every night there was somebody who was sick actually. And I think Matt might have been ill on, it was either Sunday or the Monday, and, one of those nights he wasn't there for dinner. And then Rachael, wasn't there, I think that was the Wednesday night, she was ill, Tuesday or Wednesday. So there were night when, yeah, there was only eight of us at the table (inaudible)".

1485: "Right".
Reply: "And obviously those nights the partner wouldn't be going back to check because".

1485: "They were in there".
Reply: "They were already in there".

1485: "So who do you think was ill then on the first night, sorry, the second night?"
Reply: "I think it was Matt actually, I think he was the first one. He came down with a bit of diarrhoea or something".

01.07.43
1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "Because I think they were blaming the sandwich on the plane, so it must have been soon, soon after. Yeah, and then, as I say, Rachael, I felt that was, more Tuesday or Wednesday time, I don't think it was Monday".

1485: "Right".
Reply: "I think it was the night before. I think it was the night before the Wednesday that she was".

1485: "That Rachael was bad".
Reply: "Yeah, yeah".

1485: "So you think Matt was bad on the Sunday?"
Reply: "Umm".

1485: "So, other than Matt, everybody else was at the table?"
Reply: "Yeah".

--

1485: "Would go and check. Cast your mind back and think, what was the earliest time of the checking, was anything said or was any observations made or any observations from the table?"
Reply: "On the Sunday are you still on?"

1485: "Yeah".
Reply: "Phew, nothing that is remarkable, that I can recall".

1485: "Okay. We have laboured Sunday now, you generally can't remember".
Reply: (laughs)

The Tapas Nine: McCann friends whose loyalty comes at a cost

By NEIL SEARS

Last updated at 09:20 18 September 2007

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Madeleine McCann

Madeleine: the seven people dining took turns to check on the missing child

The seven people dining with Gerry and Kate McCann at the Ocean Club tapas bar on the night of May 3 have all steadfastly defended their friends.

But their loyalty has had a cost.

According to reports from Portugal, all have come under suspicion and face further police questioning because their accounts allegedly clashed.

The group - most of them doctors and professionals - was made up of:

Dr Russell O'Brien, 36.

A consultant in acute medicine at the Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital, he knew Gerry McCann from Leicester.

He was on holiday with his partner Jane Tanner and their two young daughters.

At 9.25pm he left the restaurant for around 25 minutes to check on one of the girls, who was ill.

He has been subject to a vicious Portuguese press campaign alleging he was absent for over an hour when Madeleine went missing. He has threatened to sue, insisting: "These reports are completely untrue and extremely hurtful."

Scroll down for more...

Clockwise from top left, Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner, Russell O' Brien, Rachael Oldfield
Read more...

Judge to call Kate McCann back to Portugal
Team McCann: the supportive PR campaign
'Disgraceful lies': Kate McCann's father speaks out

Jane Tanner, 37

Dr O'Brien's partner. She arrived late at the tapas bar after treating their sick daughter.

On the way, she passed the McCanns' apartment and saw a man carrying a child. Crucially, her description of the child's clothes matched Madeleine's pink pyjamas.

Dr Matthew Oldfield, 37,

Dr Oldfield, an endocrinologist at Kingston Hospital in South-West London, went to check the McCann children at 9 25pm.

But he did not look inside the flat - simply listened from outside to ensure Madeleine and the twins were not crying.

Rachael Oldfield, 36,

Dr Oldfield's wife, a former lawyer who is now a recruitment consultant.

She is one of four witnesses who claim to have seen the first suspect, British expat Robert Murat, near the McCanns' flat.

Last month she angrily dismissed reports that police had intercepted phone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends which contradicted the group's earlier statements.

Mrs Oldfield accused Portuguese police of "throwing mud when we are not able to defend oursleves"

David Payne, 41

Mr Payne is a senior research fellow in cardiovascular sciences at Leicester University

He and his wife and mother-in-law joined the group at 8.55pm.

They are believed to have been the only ones using a baby monitor to check on their two children.

Mr Payne has said: "All these smears and rumours are overshadowing the important thing, which is to get Madeleine back."

Dr Fiona Payne, 34.

Mr Payne's wife, she is understood to have told police she saw Mr Murat shortly after Madeleine vanished.

Dr Payne and her husband stayed on in the Algarve to support the McCanns. When the couple were made official suspects, she said: "It's an outrage - a preposterous accusation."

sorry im confusing myself but not only a sick child wa sleft alone but a young baby too???

Rachel Oldfield

"She, yeah because erm, we didn't, we don't really like sleeping in the same room as her but there wasn't really nowhere else to put her cos you know, obviously she was going to bed at seven thirty and then we'd have had to kind of hide in the bathroom or something for the rest of the night, so we put, yeah she slept in our room as well erm".


"Yeah. So basically we'd go and have dinner and then we'd sort of run back you know every fifteen twenty minutes and have a listen at the door and make sure nobody's screaming their head off".


"Erm well we'd go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn't do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she'd settled quite well actually cos she'd been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there's all this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we'd go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn't been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure she hadn't been, in case it was some sort of bug".


1578 "Okay, and the route taken"?


Reply "Was up the road and then in through the car park at the back and in through the front door.


1578 "In through the front door"?


Reply "Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn't really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy".


1578 "Okay. Did you want to mention something about the Doctors in the group"?


Reply "Yeah I was just going to say that, you know Kate and Gerry are both Doctors and you know there were three other medics in the group erm four others actually sorry, four others, erm you know so if by any chance they'd accidentally done anything to Madeleine or she was ill or erm you know something wasn't quite right, I mean they wouldn't have just left her and sort of tried to cover it up as an accident or you know, they would or sort of you know, come and got Matt and Russell and Dave and Fi, erm I mean you know, not just because they are Doctors, because you know they're parents and you'd kind of go to anyone to see who could help but if you got, you know Doctors as friends who were there as well, erm you know there were kind of six people there who if Madeleine had accidentally been bumped on the head or you know whatever the theories are supposed to be, erm you know, there were plenty of people there who could of you know tried to revive a child, erm".

omg what kind i parents are those people??????

Justiceforallkids wrote:wait if maddie had accidently been bumped on the head shouldnt that be if maddie HAD bumped her head??????

Their statements are full of Freudian slips.

ann_chovey wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:wait if maddie had accidently been bumped on the head shouldnt that be if maddie HAD bumped her head??????

Their statements are full of Freudian slips.

so you understand what i mean???????????? by saying IF MADDIE had been bumped on her head it would have been someone else who accidently bumped her on the head because if maddie had bumped her head hersself it woud have been IF maddie had bumped HER head get what i mean???

Justiceforallkids, hi. I understand exactly what you mean here. If I bang my head, I bang my head. If someone else bangs my head, my head would have been accidently bumped by a third party, or not, accidently that is. You have just hit one of the many nails on the head, pun not intended.
Reading these statements makes me ask a very simple question. Why do they want children. Because as sure as God made little apples they are not prepared to put themselves out for a moment in the care of them.

Bobsy wrote:Justiceforallkids, hi. I understand exactly what you mean here. If I bang my head, I bang my head. If someone else bangs my head, my head would have been accidently bumped by a third party, or not, accidently that is. You have just hit one of the many nails on the head, pun not intended.
Reading these statements makes me ask a very simple question. Why do they want children. Because as sure as God made little apples they are not prepared to put themselves out for a moment in the care of them.

i have always had a theory that maddie was having a temper tantrum about going to bed etc or didnt want kate to leave her again so maddie threw a normal 3 year old tantrum and kate snapped................... and accidently pushed her and maddie fell to the ground and maddie dayzed might have crawled away behind the sofa and staretd to cry hence the crying for 70 minutes and the crys for daddy etc and cry maybe for gerry????????? then he came back and they settled maddie patchd her head up etc thought she was ok and went back out and when they came back her condition had got worse???

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Bobsy wrote:Justiceforallkids, hi. I understand exactly what you mean here. If I bang my head, I bang my head. If someone else bangs my head, my head would have been accidently bumped by a third party, or not, accidently that is. You have just hit one of the many nails on the head, pun not intended.
Reading these statements makes me ask a very simple question. Why do they want children. Because as sure as God made little apples they are not prepared to put themselves out for a moment in the care of them.

i have always had a theory that maddie was having a temper tantrum about going to bed etc or didnt want kate to leave her again so maddie threw a normal 3 year old tantrum and kate snapped................... and accidently pushed her and maddie fell to the ground and maddie dayzed might have crawled away behind the sofa and staretd to cry hence the crying for 70 minutes and the crys for daddy etc and cry maybe for gerry????????? then he came back and they settled maddie patchd her head up etc thought she was ok and went back out and when they came back her condition had got worse???

If there had been a straight forward accident then the Mc's would have nothing to fear in terms of the law and their reputation so there must have been something else, sedatives or abandonment or perhaps both, that would push them to conceal the truth for fear of prosecution. Or perhaps there may have been some other give away if the body had been examined in a post mortem!??

NoStone wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Bobsy wrote:Justiceforallkids, hi. I understand exactly what you mean here. If I bang my head, I bang my head. If someone else bangs my head, my head would have been accidently bumped by a third party, or not, accidently that is. You have just hit one of the many nails on the head, pun not intended.
Reading these statements makes me ask a very simple question. Why do they want children. Because as sure as God made little apples they are not prepared to put themselves out for a moment in the care of them.

i have always had a theory that maddie was having a temper tantrum about going to bed etc or didnt want kate to leave her again so maddie threw a normal 3 year old tantrum and kate snapped................... and accidently pushed her and maddie fell to the ground and maddie dayzed might have crawled away behind the sofa and staretd to cry hence the crying for 70 minutes and the crys for daddy etc and cry maybe for gerry????????? then he came back and they settled maddie patchd her head up etc thought she was ok and went back out and when they came back her condition had got worse???

If there had been a straight forward accident then the Mc's would have nothing to fear in terms of the law and their reputation so there must have been something else, sedatives or abandonment or perhaps both, that would push them to conceal the truth for fear of prosecution. Or perhaps there may have been some other give away if the body had been examined in a post mortem!??

If a child is accidently knocked over and sustains an injury it is just that, an accident. If a child is knocked over in a rage from an overtired parent, then it is still an accident and the parent could be sympathised with for looking after three very young children with tight schedules of sleep and meal times.
If a parent, hardworked and overtired does the above bit then hides the body, the only reason is that the body must not be examined. If an accidental knock that led to death then 100% sympathy, if an attack in rage and overtiredness then not 100% sympathy but some degree of empathy. If though a body being hidden a 100% suspicion that there has to be a cover up of something far more damaging than a few people at the school gates pointing fingers and whispering.

It's interesting to see that in her first statement the day after Madeleine was reported missing, Fiona Payne refers to the children as being in a club to which the other couples went regularly to check on them. This is certainly more believable than the children being left to fend for themselves in their apartments don't you think?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE.htm

Bobsy wrote:

If a parent, hardworked and overtired does the above bit then hides the body, the only reason is that the body must not be examined.

...or

that the parent knows the other children present would forever link the parent's angry demeanour with the sudden motionless state of their older sibling.

I have always been suspicious of the incessant brain-washing of the twins with the 'a bad man stole your sister' story and wondered if it's to replace any seeds that might have been germinating in their tiny heads about their mother/father having caused Madeleine to not be there after that evening when said parent got overtired and angry and lashed out.

It could also have required that sedatives were urgently administered to the twins (by possibly a trained anaesthetist and close female friend) at around, say 6.30pm - 7pm, when it does seem rather unclear which Payne was where and for how long and why.

Meanwhile, a dying child could have been receiving some kind of desperate emergency treatment, behind the sofa.

Bobsy wrote:

NoStone wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Bobsy wrote:Justiceforallkids, hi. I understand exactly what you mean here. If I bang my head, I bang my head. If someone else bangs my head, my head would have been accidently bumped by a third party, or not, accidently that is. You have just hit one of the many nails on the head, pun not intended.
Reading these statements makes me ask a very simple question. Why do they want children. Because as sure as God made little apples they are not prepared to put themselves out for a moment in the care of them.

i have always had a theory that maddie was having a temper tantrum about going to bed etc or didnt want kate to leave her again so maddie threw a normal 3 year old tantrum and kate snapped................... and accidently pushed her and maddie fell to the ground and maddie dayzed might have crawled away behind the sofa and staretd to cry hence the crying for 70 minutes and the crys for daddy etc and cry maybe for gerry????????? then he came back and they settled maddie patchd her head up etc thought she was ok and went back out and when they came back her condition had got worse???

If there had been a straight forward accident then the Mc's would have nothing to fear in terms of the law and their reputation so there must have been something else, sedatives or abandonment or perhaps both, that would push them to conceal the truth for fear of prosecution. Or perhaps there may have been some other give away if the body had been examined in a post mortem!??

If a child is accidently knocked over and sustains an injury it is just that, an accident. If a child is knocked over in a rage from an overtired parent, then it is still an accident and the parent could be sympathised with for looking after three very young children with tight schedules of sleep and meal times.
If a parent, hardworked and overtired does the above bit then hides the body, the only reason is that the body must not be examined. If an accidental knock that led to death then 100% sympathy, if an attack in rage and overtiredness then not 100% sympathy but some degree of empathy. If though a body being hidden a 100% suspicion that there has to be a cover up of something far more damaging than a few people at the school gates pointing fingers and whispering.

:Very disturbing

I though some of you might find this interesting ,

Abusive head trauma/inflicted traumatic brain injury — also called shaken baby/shaken impact syndrome (or SBS) — is a form of inflicted head trauma.

the majority of victims are infants younger than 1 year old. The average age of victims is between 3 and 8 months, although these injuries can be seen in children up to 5 years old.


The perpetrators in these cases are most often parents or caregivers. Common triggers are frustration or stress when the child is crying.


http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/brain/shaken.html

ELI wrote:

Bobsy wrote:

NoStone wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Bobsy wrote:Justiceforallkids, hi. I understand exactly what you mean here. If I bang my head, I bang my head. If someone else bangs my head, my head would have been accidently bumped by a third party, or not, accidently that is. You have just hit one of the many nails on the head, pun not intended.
Reading these statements makes me ask a very simple question. Why do they want children. Because as sure as God made little apples they are not prepared to put themselves out for a moment in the care of them.

i have always had a theory that maddie was having a temper tantrum about going to bed etc or didnt want kate to leave her again so maddie threw a normal 3 year old tantrum and kate snapped................... and accidently pushed her and maddie fell to the ground and maddie dayzed might have crawled away behind the sofa and staretd to cry hence the crying for 70 minutes and the crys for daddy etc and cry maybe for gerry????????? then he came back and they settled maddie patchd her head up etc thought she was ok and went back out and when they came back her condition had got worse???

If there had been a straight forward accident then the Mc's would have nothing to fear in terms of the law and their reputation so there must have been something else, sedatives or abandonment or perhaps both, that would push them to conceal the truth for fear of prosecution. Or perhaps there may have been some other give away if the body had been examined in a post mortem!??

If a child is accidently knocked over and sustains an injury it is just that, an accident. If a child is knocked over in a rage from an overtired parent, then it is still an accident and the parent could be sympathised with for looking after three very young children with tight schedules of sleep and meal times.
If a parent, hardworked and overtired does the above bit then hides the body, the only reason is that the body must not be examined. If an accidental knock that led to death then 100% sympathy, if an attack in rage and overtiredness then not 100% sympathy but some degree of empathy. If though a body being hidden a 100% suspicion that there has to be a cover up of something far more damaging than a few people at the school gates pointing fingers and whispering.

:Very disturbing

I though some of you might find this interesting ,

Abusive head trauma/inflicted traumatic brain injury — also called shaken baby/shaken impact syndrome (or SBS) — is a form of inflicted head trauma.

the majority of victims are infants younger than 1 year old. The average age of victims is between 3 and 8 months, although these injuries can be seen in children up to 5 years old.


The perpetrators in these cases are most often parents or caregivers. Common triggers are frustration or stress when the child is crying.


http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/brain/shaken.html

Or when the child is not doing as it is told in a big way, like giving it's parent it's tuppenceworth. Didn't Madeleine display some marks on her wrists? These could be caused by being dragged along whilst in a tantrum. Wasn't Madeleine removed from the creche one afternoon after being there only a very short time?
Bet the parent to pick up felt annoyed and shown up.

Bobsy wrote: Or when the child is not doing as it is told in a big way, like giving it's parent it's tuppenceworth. Didn't Madeleine display some marks on her wrists? These could be caused by being dragged along whilst in a tantrum. Wasn't Madeleine removed from the creche one afternoon after being there only a very short time?
Bet the parent to pick up felt annoyed and shown up..


Monday afternoon Maddie was dropped off at the creche by KM and picked up 15 minutes later by KM.

ann_chovey wrote:Bobsy wrote: Or when the child is not doing as it is told in a big way, like giving it's parent it's tuppenceworth. Didn't Madeleine display some marks on her wrists? These could be caused by being dragged along whilst in a tantrum. Wasn't Madeleine removed from the creche one afternoon after being there only a very short time?
Bet the parent to pick up felt annoyed and shown up..


Monday afternoon Maddie was dropped off at the creche by KM and picked up 15 minutes later by KM.

If I remember right there are what appeared to be some bruisng of the wrists / arms ( I think ) in the Tennis ball photo.

I was surprised to learn children as old as 5 yrs are reportedly victims of this type of abuse.

well, it was their holiday too...