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EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2

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Post  Panda Sun 8 Jan - 17:42

Just a reminder of who is in the EU.

The member
countries of the

European
Union

are:

Austria
· Belgium
· Bulgaria
· Cyprus
· Czech Republic
·
Denmark
· Estonia
· Finland
· France
· Germany
· Greece
· Hungary
· Ireland
· Italy
· Latvia
· Lithuania
· Luxembourg
· Malta
· Netherlands
·
Poland
· Portugal
· Romania
· Slovakia
· Slovenia
· Spain
· Sweden
· United Kingdom
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EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 Empty Norway Police cut traffic fine for lower income Swede

Post  Panda Sun 8 Jan - 18:23

8 January 2012
Last updated at 16:23



Sweden is in the EU but not in the EURO.......no wonder both Countries are doing well. EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 25346










Norway police cut traffic fine for 'lower-income' Swede









EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 _57762754_000030413-1

Mr Andersson was initially fined 8,000 krona



Continue reading the main story Related Stories






Police
in Norway cut in half a traffic fine for a Swedish trucker on the
grounds that Swedes earn less than Norwegians, Oslo newspaper VG
reports.

Ulf Ander Andersson, 61, was driving a lorry for his
Norwegian employer in March when he was stopped by police, who found his
brakes were not in order.

He was fined £857 ($1,323) but last month got a letter saying the sum had been reduced due to his nationality.

Mr Andersson told VG he was grateful, though he found it "very strange".

The two Scandinavian nations are among the richest in the world.

Norway enjoys a higher GDP per capita than its bigger
neighbour: nearly $52,000 compared to $38,000, according to IMF figures
for 2010.

In their letter to Mr Andersson, Norwegian police said they
had taken the fact that he was Swedish into consideration, and therefore
reduced the 8,000-krona fine "with regard to your income level".

"I thank them for the rebate, but I find it very strange," the driver said.

"I actually make more than my Norwegian colleagues since the
Swedish krona is weak and I live in Sweden. They should be able to
figure that out."









More on This Story




Related Stories











Related Internet links








The BBC is not responsible for the content of external Internet sites
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Post  Panda Sun 8 Jan - 20:43

News Analysis

Germany Resists Europe's Pleas to Spend More



FRANKFURT — Spain, Italy and Greece are taking a knife to public spending because they have no choice. But Germany is still healthy enough that it could do its troubled trading partners a favor and focus more on promoting demand and less on cutting debt.

Enlarge This Image
EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 08hawks-articleInline
Michele Tantussi/Bloomberg News

Jens Weidmann, the president of the Bundesbank.


Could, but almost certainly will not. Even if German lawmakers had not made a balanced budget a constitutional obligation two years ago, there is a deep consensus among policy makers and economists that austerity and growth are not enemies. They are comrades.
Jens Weidmann, president of the Bundesbank, the German central bank, was channeling generations of hawkish predecessors last week when he called on the government of Chancellor Angela Merkel to speed up efforts to cut new borrowing close to zero.
“We must quickly achieve a structurally balanced budget,” Mr. Weidmann said in an interview with the Tagesspiegel newspaper. Germany should set an example for the rest of the beleaguered euro zone, he said.
The Bundesbank president speaks for a large swath of the German public, and his comments suggest that President Nicolas Sarkozy of France and Prime Minister Mario Monti of Italy should not expect more of a financial commitment when they meet with Mrs. Merkel in Berlin this week. Mr. Sarkozy’s visit is Monday and Mr. Monti’s is Wednesday.
“One of the lessons of the crisis,” Mr. Weidmann said, is that cutting budget deficits “should be postponed as little as possible.”
That view annoys many people outside Germany, who see it as another example of the country’s lecturing the rest of Europe while putting a priority on its domestic interests. Germany, with the lowest borrowing costs and strongest economy among the big European countries, should lend the rest of Europe a hand, they say.
“Germany is the only country that has this freedom, and if they don’t use this freedom, that is bad,” said Éric Chaney, chief economist at AXA Group, a French insurer.
With interest rates on German bonds close to zero, Mr. Chaney noted, should the country not be using this cheap money to invest in education and infrastructure and to promote long-term growth while stimulating demand around Europe?
And Germany should do so for its own good, he added. “If Germany has a problem, it is the instability of the euro,” Mr. Chaney said.
Evidence of a coming downturn in the euro zone remains strong, despite some economic indicators in recent weeks that have been better than expected. Retail sales in the euro area fell nearly 1 percent in November from October, according to data released Friday, while unemployment remained at 10.3 percent. The European Commission’s confidence indicator fell in December for a 10th month in a row.
Despite the worsening circumstances — which most economists schooled in the thinking of John Maynard Keynes see as a compelling reason to loosen monetary reins and increase government borrowing — German fiscal policy is already effectively set in stone. In 2009, the country adopted a constitutional “debt brake” that requires a nearly balanced national budget by 2016.
Berlin can achieve that requirement only if it starts reducing deficit spending now. Mr. Weidmann called for the government to achieve that goal sooner.
There are sightings of Keynesians from time to time at German universities and research institutes, but they are a rare breed. Mr. Weidmann represents the prevailing school of thought, as does Jörg Asmussen, a former high-ranking official in the German Finance Ministry who joined the executive board of the European Central Bank last week.
Both studied at the University of Bonn under Axel A. Weber, a hawk’s hawk who was Mr. Weidmann’s predecessor as president of the Bundesbank.
Mr. Weber, in turn, followed in the footsteps of guardians of fiscal and monetary probity like Otmar Issing, a former official at the Bundesbank and E.C.B. who remains a towering figure in German economics. On Friday, the Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper devoted a full broadsheet page to an essay by Mr. Issing calling for rigid fiscal discipline to restore confidence in the euro.
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Post  Panda Mon 9 Jan - 6:06

Sarkozy And Merkel Meet For Eurozone Talks














EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 16124115
The two leaders will start a series of monthly talks





5:49am UK, Monday January 09, 2012



Robert Nisbet, Europe correspondent






The leaders of France and Germany meet in Berlin today to kickstart a rescue plan for the Euro.


It is the first in a series of monthly mini-summits between Angela
Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, who want toughen up the rules governing
countries which use the single currency.


Those proposals will be included in a so-called "fiscal compact"
which is expected to be signed in March by all the EU member states
except the UK, which walked away from the negotiations.


David Cameron pulled out after his attempt to secure safeguards for Britain's burgeoning financial service industry was rebuffed.


The draft pact, which has been obtained by Sky News, proposes using
the European Court of Justice (ECJ) to ensure eurozone countries keep
their national debt and budget deficits within agreed limits.


As the ECJ is an institution of the EU, all 27 members, including Britain, would have to agree to the plan.


:: Read more about the eurozone crisis on our dedicated topic page


The Prime Minister has hinted he might not support the proposal.


The mini-summit will also examine the introduction of a financial transaction tax, which Britain also strongly opposes.








EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 16143322

President Sarkozy with Italian pm Mario Monti





France has suggested it would press ahead on its own with the
so-called Robin Hood tax, which is seen as politically popular in an
election year.


Germany would prefer the tax to be introduced simultaneously in all 17 countries which use the euro.


France and Germany also disagree over whether to use commonly issued
eurobonds to help struggling countries fund themselves, as well as the
degree to which the European Central Bank should be used to soak up
sovereign debt.


This week sees a flurry of diplomatic activity to prepare for a
meeting of eurozone finance ministers on January 23 and a full EU
leaders' summit a week later.


Italy's technocrat Prime Minister Mario Monti
will travel to Berlin on Wednesday to inform Chancellor Merkel of his
progress in tackling the country's high debt and low growth.
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Post  Panda Mon 9 Jan - 8:49

Euro back form the brink as ECB wins benefit of Investors .

Unicredit shares suspended again after falling 3.3 %

Europes new powers force clash with Belgium

Sovereign Debt rises to record in Europe.

European Banks lodged E495 million overnight with the ECB meaning they aren"t lending to each other or Customers.

Merkel and Sarkozy meeting today is expected to offer new solutions .

If Germany agrees to follow French intention to raise a Financial Tax it has to have the approval of all 28 States and of course the U.K.
would veto . However, they may try to disguise it by suggesting "Financial Surcharge".
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Post  Panda Mon 9 Jan - 11:15

European Council

Little Denmark faces high-stakes EU Presidency

2 January 2012
Politiken
Copenhagen


EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 COST_Dk-EU Cost


At the height of the debt crisis, a small country, which is not a member of the Eurozone, has taken on the EU’s six monthly rotating presidency. Danish daily Politiken argues that Copenhagen should take advantage of its marginal status in adopting the role of mediator for a community that is tearing itself apart.
Bjørn Bredal
In the new year, Denmark will take over the Presidency of the European Union. A small country with a new government, it stands to make a major contribution to the task of guiding Europe through one of the worst crises it has ever experienced.
It is in this context that that we should be all the more thankful for one remarkable fact: after centuries of war and conflict, Europe has found a means to cooperate, which has made yet another Danish Presidency possible.
It is an apt demonstration of the achievement of peace in a collaborative and generous Europe, which a little more than fifty years ago was still recovering from the one of the most devastating wars ever to afflict our part of the world. We are living in a new Europe, and it is this Europe that Denmark will have the opportunity to influence and protect over the next six months.
The presidency will have to demonstrate that the EU’s 27 member states should and can reach agreement on a wide range of political issues notwithstanding the scale of the current crisis.
At the same time, we will also have to work hard to ensure that the heart of European cooperation is not reduced to practical short-term solutions. In recent months, the 17 countries of the Eurozone have set about resolving the sovereign debt and single currency crisis in a framework that is worryingly remote from the heart of European cooperation.
Ensure that the EU does not move closer to collapse

There is a serious risk of division – a risk that has been aggravated by the UK’s rejection of the proposed Stability Union. The EU is now divided in three parts: the 17 Eurozone countries, nine others including Denmark that plan to adhere to this pact, and Great Britain which is in conflict with other EU members.
Ensuring that the EU does not drift closer to collapse, but, on the contrary, moves ahead with negotiations on issues concerning the common framework will be a key criterion for the success of the presidency.
Denmark, which is taking on its seventh European Presidency, has plenty of experience, and our unfortunate lack of involvement in the euro may prove useful when acting as a mediator.
For Europe, the stakes are not only monetary and economic: it also has to protect peace, freedom and European values. In the coming months, Denmark will have a chance to raise these issues. It is an opportunity not to be missed.
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Post  Panda Mon 9 Jan - 11:44

irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Monday, January 9, 2012, 11:22Merkel, Sarkozy hold key talks

EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 286295_1French president Nicolas Sarkozy waves as he arrives to visit German chancellor Angela Merkel at the Chancellery in Berlin today. Photograph: Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters

Related



The leaders of Germany and France are holding their first meeting of the year as the euro zone continues attempts to hammer out a treaty enshrining tougher budget rules.
The talks between German chancellor Angela Merkel and French president Nicolas Sarkozy come ahead of new Italian premier Mario Monti’s first visit to Berlin on Wednesday.
Dr Merkel and Mr Sarkozy will travel to Italy on January 20th before a European summit at the end of the month.
Italy is a key focus of the crisis because of its size, huge debt load and need to borrow heavily in the first quarter. The yield on its 10-year bonds rose back above the 7 per cent level that is considered a danger mark late last week.
Dr Merkel and International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde will meet in Berlin tomorrow evening.
"It is an informal meeting, an informal exchange of views," German government spokesman Steffen Seibert said, adding that the pair would hold a news conference after their talks.
Meanwhile, Greece’s prime minister Lucas Papademos has warned of possible default if details of a second bailout are not finalised.


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Post  Panda Mon 9 Jan - 18:08

nterview



Geert Mak — Reconquering Europe




9 January 2012

NRC Handelsblad

Rotterdam





EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 Geert-MakGeert Mak


AFP





What’s in store for project Europe this year? A
community under the supervision of a strong European Commission or a
decentralised intergovernmental system, advocated by the Germans? Dutch
historian Geert Mak has painted a bleak picture for the future of the
European Union.


Laura Starink




He was in no way looking forward to it. Geert Mak
has been writing a book on America, which is why Europe had been
receiving much less of his attention. But when the German weekly Die
Zeit wondered aloud why European intellectuals have been keeping so
quiet, he came back with an essay – Tišma's Dog [De hond van Tišma]. What if Europe falls?

Tišma's Dog paints a bleak picture. Together with historian Norman
Davies, an expert on European history, Mak concludes that the December
EU summit effectively destroyed any hope that might have remained. “I'm
afraid all is lost.”

It’s a case of 'too little, too late'. Insufficient money for the
emergency funds, not enough cases by which a country can be sanctioned,
too little vision and ultimately inadequate European leadership.
"Merkel's Germany", Mak writes, "is missing a historical opportunity to
become the true leader of Europe. Fearing the wrong spectre, that of
inflation, Germany is pushing Europe into recession". "A big mistake",
says Mak. "You're better off visiting the inflation station [i.e.
printing more euros] . And squeezing the South till there is nothing
left of it will not work."

You write that we need to wrest Europe back from the financial
markets. Any suggestions how? In 1989, the liberal West conquered
Communism. And let casino capitalism escalate outrageously.



"If you do business, you take risks. You might be rewarded, but it
might just as easily blow up in your face. Every street trader knows
that. But the forces of supply and demand have been upset by the banks,
that have almost started an anti-democratic revolution. They have
claimed all power for themselves. Everyone will emerge from this crisis
severely damaged, except for those who caused it. The banks run
absolutely no risk, while the public sector pays the price.

Recently I attended a meeting where a group of European specialists
from the financial sector were lectured by a prominent Chinese
economist and a central banker from Africa. An interesting historical
turning point. The African said, ‘Your banks are filled with very
competent people, but they have made every single mistake in the book.
That can only be explained if other factors have influenced their
decisions. In Africa we call those other factors corruption.’ The
entire room went quiet. He was talking about the bonuses and he was
completely right."

Europe was an attempt at creating a democracy that transcends the
national borders. Can't democracy handle an unfettered global market?



“That is what makes me so sad. With all its shortcomings, with all
its scratches and dents, the European Union is still a fantastic
experiment in this area. For this reason we must defend it tooth and
nail. The EU should at least be a model that preserves democratic
values in this turbulent 21st century. If that is lost, then others
will fill the vacuum. The Americans, the Chinese, the Brazilians, the
Russians."

The EU is a typical product of the belief that society is
malleable. Will the populists turn out to have been right? Is it not
working?



"No. They have one point: a fog of discontent is hanging over
Europe. In the Netherlands that feeling is very strong. Populists voice
the discontent. I understand the criticism towards Europe. But turning
in on ourselves is just magical thinking. Of course, retreating into
national myths is incredibly tempting. Sometimes in bed at night I play
with the idea of joining the right wing, but only for fifteen minutes.
Wouldn’t that be so nice!"

That sense of unease is also present in your book. You are a
European in heart and soul, and you observe with the eye of a
historian. But you do not come up with a solution. You are ultimately
forced to admit that it doesn't work.



"No matter how sad, I was not surprised. In the final chapter of my book In Europe
I already wrote that, with 27 captains on deck, this is a very off
keel ship to be sailing. I predicted that this would cause great
problems, once a storm hits. And that storm has now arrived.

Your book ends on a bleak note. What is your hope for 2012?


“The coming years are all about what will become of Europe. Will a
communal system under the supervision of a strong European Commission
remain in place, or will it turn into a decentralised intergovernmental
system, advocated by the Germans? The Netherlands can play an
intermediary role in this. We are not as dogmatic as the Germans. Let's
play that role to its full potential, purely out of self-interest.
Because we are and will remain an internationally oriented country.”



Translated from the Dutch by Sarina Ruiter-Bouwhuis
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Post  Panda Tue 10 Jan - 5:53

Italy needs E100 Billion .

Germany and France back Transaction Tax but maybe only for Euro Countries.

German industrial output fell last month and the E4 Billion Bonds issues yesterday were not all taken up and for the first time with a
slightly higher negative yield.
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Post  Panda Tue 10 Jan - 6:01

Europe needs to focus on growth, say Sarkozy, Merkel

EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 Warning
To take advantage of all the features on FRANCE24.COM, please click here to download the latest version of Flash Player.





Following talks in Berlin on Monday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel said boosting European growth is a priority and urged Greece to restructure its debt before receiving new bailout funds.

By News Wires (text)



AP - The leaders of France and Germany said boosting economic growth across Europe is a priority in their efforts to stem the debt crisis that is showing signs of spreading across the 17 countries that use the euro.
Following a meeting in Berlin Monday with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, German Chancellor Angela Merkel also urged Greece and its private creditors to quickly agree the restructuring of the country’s national debt if it is to receive its next batch of bailout cash. In October, the eurozone agreed a second handout for Greece that involves the country’s private creditors accepting a 50 percent reduction in the value of their holdings of Greek debt.
She added that both she and Sarkozy want Greece to receive the money.
“We want for Greece to remain in the eurozone,” Merkel said.
The two leaders also said they would consider speeding up payments into the 17-nation eurozone’s permanent rescue fund, the European Stability Mechanism, in an effort to bolster confidence, and for a quick conclusion to negotiations on a new treaty enshrining fiscal rules.
Germany has insisted on austerity measures in the so-called eurozone’s fight to lower budget deficits and regain investor confidence. Europe is working to hammer out a new treaty enshrining tougher fiscal rules, which leaders agreed at a summit in early December.
Merkel added that resolving the crisis will be “step-by-step ... there’s no single-dimension solution.”
They also told reporters that Europe should compare countries’ labor market practices and learn from the best, and for European funds to be used in a way that could create jobs.
The French and German leaders are working to draw up new budget and fiscal guidelines by March to help contain a debt crisis that threatens to engulf the eurozone.
Greece, whose sovereign debt problems sparked the current crisis, is struggling top impose austerity measures to ensure that it secures a second, €130 billion ($165 billion) bailout to ensure that it does not default on its debt and remain in eurozone.
Greek Prime Minister Lucas Papademos warned union leaders and business groups last week that decisions made in the next few weeks, ahead of a new visit by international debt inspectors, will determine the country’s future in Europe.
Greece is also working to strike a deal with creditors for the 50 percent reduction in their holdings of Greek debt to try to put the country back on its feet.
Monday’s meeting of Merkel and Sarkozy comes ahead of new Italian Premier Mario Monti’s first visit to Berlin Wednesday.
Merkel spokesman Seibert said the chancellor plans an "informal" meeting in Berlin Tuesday evening with IMF chief Christine Lagarde.
Merkel and Sarkozy will travel to Italy on Jan. 20 before a European summit at the end of the month.
Italy is a key focus of the crisis because of its size, huge debt load and need to borrow heavily in the first quarter. The yield on its 10-year bonds is hovering around the 7 percent level that is widely-considered to be a danger mark.
The push to secure a future for the eurozone comes amid hopes that some parts of Europe might avoid a recession this year.
International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde told reporters on Business Day over the weekend that there was reason to be "a bit more upbeat" about prospects for the region.
Lagarde’s remarks were in marked contrast to her downbeat tone last month, when she warned the world economy was "in a dangerous situation".
“The eurozone scene has changed massively over the last 18 months or so there are reasons to be a little bit more upbeat about the prospects,” she told Business Week.
Germany’s reputation as a safe haven from the sovereign debt crisis was bolstered on Monday with the sale of 3.9 billion euros of six-month treasury bills at a yield of minus 0.0122 percent.





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Post  Badboy Tue 10 Jan - 13:51

NOT SURE IF RIGHT THREAD.
CASH-RICH COMPANIES ARE LENDING TO CASH-STRAPED BANKS(GUARDIAN TODAY)
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Post  Panda Tue 10 Jan - 13:57

Badboy wrote:NOT SURE IF RIGHT THREAD.
CASH-RICH COMPANIES ARE LENDING TO CASH-STRAPED BANKS(GUARDIAN TODAY)

Is this in Euro Countries Badboy? If not it should be in U.K. thread, what kind of Companies are they?
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Post  Panda Tue 10 Jan - 14:30

Stocks around Europe are trading higher today in hope that all these meeting will result in firm action.

Sale of Bonds were down this morning on sale from Italy, France and Spain.

Professor Barro of Harvard University says the concept of an integrated Europe without an integrated fiscal policy like a Eurobond was bound to fail and any decision making takes far too long because of 17 Countries having to be informed. He thinks Greece should have been
allowed to fail immediatly , now two years on, many EURO Countries are affected.

He believes the Union should be broken up and just keep the Free Trade between the EU Countries. He pointed out that there was a two
year period for all EURO Countries to change from their own currency to the Euro, so why not reverse the decision over the next two years?

Germany cannot impose it"s modus operandi on any Country and expect them to comply and this fiscal policy is the same enshrined in
the Treaty which Germany and France were the first Countries to break.
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Post  Badboy Tue 10 Jan - 15:38

Panda wrote:
Badboy wrote:NOT SURE IF RIGHT THREAD.
CASH-RICH COMPANIES ARE LENDING TO CASH-STRAPED BANKS(GUARDIAN TODAY)

Is this in Euro Countries Badboy? If not it should be in U.K. thread, what kind of Companies are they?
NO IDEA.
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Post  Panda Tue 10 Jan - 15:50

Badboy wrote:
Panda wrote:
Badboy wrote:NOT SURE IF RIGHT THREAD.
CASH-RICH COMPANIES ARE LENDING TO CASH-STRAPED BANKS(GUARDIAN TODAY)

Is this in Euro Countries Badboy? If not it should be in U.K. thread, what kind of Companies are they?
NO IDEA.

Can you check out the Guardian? If not, just leave it here EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 25346
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Post  Panda Tue 10 Jan - 16:42

Debate



Why I’m feeling strangely Austrian




10 January 2012

Financial Times

London





EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2 - Page 40 Pinn-ideology

Pinn





As the financial crisis continues to ravage the West,
the dominant ideology of all triumphant free-market liberalism is
collapsing. But what new political trends are emerging, and which will
succeed? asks Gideon Rachman.


Gideon Rachman




"The old is dying and the new cannot be born: in the interregnum a
great variety of morbid symptoms will appear.” That statement from the
Prison Notebooks of the Italian communist Antonio Gramsci was a
favourite of student Marxists when I was at university in the 1980s.
Back then it struck me as portentous nonsense. But Gramsci’s observation
does resonate now – in an age of ideological confusion.

Old certainties about the onward march of the markets are collapsing.
But no new theory has established ideological “hegemony”, to use the
concept that Gramsci made famous. Some ideas are, however, gathering new
strength. The four strongest emerging trends that I can spot are, in
very broad terms: rightwing populist, social democratic-Keynesian,
libertarian-Hayekian and anti-capitalist/socialist.

Each of these new trends is a reaction against the dominant ideas of
1978-2008. Back then, for all the nominal differences between communists
in China, capitalists in New York and the soft left in Europe, their
agreements were more striking than their arguments. Political leaders
from all over the world talked the same language about encouraging free
trade and globalisation. Increasing inequality was embraced as a price
worth paying for faster growth. Deng Xiaoping set the tone when he
declared: “To get rich is glorious.” Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher
could not have put it better.

In post-crisis Europe, however, rightwing populism is on the rise –
from the Freedom party in the Netherlands to the National Front in
France and the Northern League in Italy. The populists are
anti-globalisation, anti-EU and anti-immigration – the common thread
being that all these forces are felt to be hostile to the interests of
the nation. Hostility to Islam links Europe’s populist right to parts of
the Tea Party movement in the US. Read full article in Financial Times – registered users - or in Presseurop's nine other languages...

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https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/viewtopic.forum?t=18800

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https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/viewtopic.forum?t=18827

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https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/viewtopic.forum?t=18827

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https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/viewtopic.forum?t=18834
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