Re: New EC Thread

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Athens (CNN) -- Kiki Sarakinou doesn't think the Greeks owe their European peers anything. "Whoever lent us money, we don't owe them anything," she says. "They owe us."

Because, she says, Greece gave Europe culture, thinkers like Aristotle, Socrates, "all the philosophers and mathematicians."

Despite that, Sarakinou will vote for New Democracy, the pro-austerity party in this weekend's elections. "Because there is no option," she says. She is afraid of a return to the drachma -- the currency Greece had before it entered the euro -- the specter of which looms large over the vote. "It would be chaos if we went back to the drachma."

Sarakinou is sitting outside Piros Cafe, a resplendent figure enjoying the country's cafe culture in Kolonaki, one of Athens most affluent areas.

What do Greek elections mean?


Greeks feel 'tortured" by austerity
Crime in Greece up amid tough economy
The smallest victims of the Greek crisis Sarakinou could be seen as one of the lucky ones. Her husband, a lawyer, has passed away but she is able to support herself independently. Yet "every day is disappointing," she says. "[The country] has just collapsed."

She calls the situation "very sad, [and] bad." The country must take an "honest fight" to corruption to bring itself out of the crisis, she says.

Kolonaki is populated by the city's elite. It is a place where businessmen, politicians and actors gather to chew over the country's political and economic crisis with cigars, espressos and cold beer.

Its wealthy clientele has ensured it is slightly shielded from the crisis, and the square remains buzzing with families, businessman and the elderly, relaxing into the hot Athens evening.

Yet the area is far from immune. Restaurant manager Dimitris Konstantopoulos says business has dropped by half since last year, and numbers of staff have been cut from 60 to 29.

Human cost of Greece's crisis

This time last year the square would have been full, Konstantopoulos says, because "it is the best area in the Mediterranean." But nowadays, people are staying at home, he says; they have no money. "This is a problem."

Just down the road, past Athens' central Syntagma Square, the focus of anti-austerity protests over the past two years, is Psiri, an edgy area which was known as the "Soho" of the city before the crisis hit.

Here, restaurant worker Mario Makris simply drops his thumb down when asked how business is.

"Business has dropped by over 60%," he says.

But Makris says he will vote for New Democracy, because a swing to the left -- which has enjoyed as surge of support on the back of Greeks' despair after almost three years of austerity -- would take the country to hell, he says.

Austerity drives up suicide rate

Restaurant owner Paul Papageorgiou says the area has changed, but he blames immigrants -- another ferociously debated topic on Greek streets -- for the country's problems, rather than the financial crisis.

His family has spent decades here, and he has seen it slump from its vibrant years in the early 1990s to an area he says now suffers from crime and is home to drug dealers.

On Sunday, Papageorgiou says, he will vote for extreme right wing party Golden Dawn, one of several fringe parties to benefit from voters' dissatisfaction with traditional political groups in the last election.

Greek citizens -- and the rest of the world -- will have to wait and see if those same extremist parties will play a key role in the country's political future, be it inside or outside the euro.

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© Seven Film Gallery


The multifaceted crisis that has struck Greece is the result of several centuries of decadence marked by the deterioration of the state and the loss of a sense of morality, argues Dimitris Dimitriadis. The playwright is convinced his country is dead and must accept this fact if it is to recover. Excerpts.

Fabienne Darge


In your 1978 text I Am Dying Like a Country, you talk about a nation which disappears to the point where it loses its name and its history. How do you feel about the current plight of Greece?

Dimítris Dimitriádis: Obviously it’s quite a strange feeling. I wrote I am dying... 35 years years ago, when the country had emerged from the regime of the colonels. It was a period that was full of hope, promise and prosperity. It was my personal situation of absolute solitude that prompted the writing of the text which took the form of a parable about a country that dies because it refuses to accept its own transience, and is hostile to other identities – a country which has felt under siege for 1,000 years, which cannot accept what it calls the enemy, and is unable to see that the "enemy" is the prospect of its own future. Greece is characterised by a sort of stagnation, and an unchanging mentality: we stick with our old psychological and social habits, our lives are sustained by a dead tradition, which we never think of renewing.

It is a very serious problem: Greece, which is by nature the most historical of countries, has become stuck in the mechanism of history. That is the reason for the current impasse: everything that we are talking about, this great Greek heritage to which we lay claim, has been petrified in the form of clichés and stereotypes. This is nothing new: for some time now, Greece has been living in the light of a dead star. What I felt 35 years ago is even more pronounced today: the “crisis” will not be resolved without a genuine raising of historical awareness, which implies a recognition that something has died, so that a new birth can take place. As the poet T.S. Eliot put it: "In my end is my beginning" – but you have to say when the end happens.

So the cause of the crisis is historical rather than political or economic?

Yes, although I don’t deny the economic and political dimensions. But you cannot say it enough: the political system under which we live in Greece, which dates back to the Ottoman occupation (and is thus several centuries old), is completely clientelist. The big landowners of times past have been replaced by the political parties, but they have the same relationship to the people. The state belongs to the party, and the party utilises and exploits state resources to maintain its systems of patronage.

You say “the” party, but since the end of the dictatorship in 1974, power has changed hands a number of times in Greece...

Yes, of course. Constantin Caramanlis’ New Democracy emerged after the fall of the colonels, but from the late 1970s, it has really been the so-called socialist party of Andreas Papandreou, Pasok, which ruled Greece. These two major parties, one supposedly right-wing and the other supposedly left-wing, both function in the same way, but you should know that Pasok pushed the clientelist system to the absolute limit, pillaging state resources and all of the funds from the European Union. Money belonging to the state was appropriated for the party treasury, which, for example, allowed for the creation of numerous fake jobs. And the fact that all of this is still ongoing has played a major role in the economic catastrophe that we are facing: the system has run out of steam because there are no more resources. At the same time, it so profoundly rotten that there is no possibility of progress. All of this is the reason why I am saying that the country is already dead, and we should accept that so we can sweep it away and make a fresh start. That is what I mean by historical awareness.

You are calling for major moral effort. But do you think such a call can be heard at a time when people are suffering more and more, both materially and psychologically? Won’t the bid to maintain a minimum standard of living take precedence over other considerations?

It is true that day-to-day life in Greece has become almost unbearable. But from time to time, as a person who is exposed to this daily grind and one who suffers like everyone else, I tell myself that the Europeans are right to want to punish the country. I find myself thinking that they should not be lenient, because the truth is that the Greek people are also to blame: they have lived with a facility and a frivolity that has led them to accept all of these arrangements.

I often have the impression that a form of vulgarity, of coarseness, has taken over our country. You can see it in a certain way of laughing, for example, that is absolutely ghastly: it is a laugh, which as the monk in Umberto Eco’s The Name of the Rose explains, deforms a human face and makes it ugly... I am not saying that I would like people to cry, but that particular kind of laugh indicates a kind of insouciance that is intolerable.

So if I sometimes say to myself that I would like Europe to punish Greece, it is because we are really suffocating. What you see from the inside is a people that are certainly suffering, because they have to endure the consequences of widespread corruption, but a people that cannot be cast as victims: our politicians are in every sense representative of the people. This deplorable mentality I am talking about is prevalent in the entire population, and I should say that it is not only found in Greece: you can draw a lot of parallels with other populations, notably with Italy and Poland...

So what should be done to achieve this profound change?

Right now, it seems almost utopian. Under current conditions, the idea of a new civilisation is a dream that has more to do with the world of art than it does with reality. That is the main contribution of art and literature: invention. As Cornelius Castoriadis has shown, all of the great inventions, like democracy and tragedy, have emerged from a specific historic reality. That is why we should ask ourselves if democracy, which was invented in Antiquity, can still function.

Perhaps the time has come to invent a new way of governing ourselves... I am thinking of the poem that Günter Grass recently wrote about Greece: it is called The Shame of Europe, and was published by the Süddeutsche Zeitung on 25 May. It begins like this: "You are far from the country that was your cradle..." For me, it is a bad poem – ultimately superficial, because it speaks of Greece as the "cradle" of our civilisation. You have to understand that the cradle has become a tomb. But the tomb can once again become a cradle... In the past, misfortune and catastrophe have always offered humanity an opportunity to renew its strength and to develop new civilisational models. There is no reason to believe that this process cannot continue.


Original article at Le Monde fr


Dimitris Dimitriadis

Playwright, novelist and translator

A native and a resident of Thessaloniki, Dimítris Dimitriádis (b. 1944) is a playwright, essayist, poet and also the translator of a large number of authors including Shakespeare, Tennessee Williams, Samuel Beckett, Jean Genet, and Marguerite Duras. He is the author of several novels and close to three dozen plays including I Am Dying like a Country, which has been widely translated and performed in several countries.

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Exit Polls are suggesting the Greek Conservatives are neck and neck with the radical left.......will this mean another hung Parliament.

Latest news New Democracy Party 27-30.5% Siriza 27-30% Pasok 10-12%

Merkel has postponed her Meeting with the G7 , Financial Markets when they open tomorrow will not like the result.

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It is looking uncreasingly unlikely that no one party will win the Election . German Football fans were interviewed said they do not agree to lend Greece
any more money. Why should they have to work until they are 67 yrs old while some Countries have a retirement age of 60. The New Democracy
Party are apparently prepared for the worst. During the morning it is usually the older Generation that vote and the time when ND expected to have a
clear majority and would be well in the lead. This did not happen and they do not expect to have a majority to form a Government.

[Badboy]

IF THE RICH LOSE A LOT OF MONEY BECAUSE THE STOCK MARKETS GET THE JITTERS,I WOULD CHEER.

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IF THE RICH LOSE A LOT OF MONEY BECAUSE THE STOCK MARKETS GET THE JITTERS,I WOULD CHEER.

I don't think there will be much stock buying Badboy, probably more like looking for safe havens to park their money.

[fuzeta]

Well the Greeks will be celebrating tonight.

I do admire the rather disfunctional nature of the Greeks actually.Very casual and laid back,seem to work when they feel like it and the men spend a lot of time sitting around drinking.

They have a lot of water mellons in Greece so they probably wont starve when it goes pear shaped !

One cannot live by water melons alone Lioned, especially if you live in an apartment in Athens. They have their own ways of living and working . Their ways have always served them well until the euro fiasco. It was not for them.

I am very sorry that this stupid single currency has brought them to this. I wish them all the very best and hope that they find the right way out of this terrible mess.

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It appears Gerrmany will not lend any money to Greece and everyone now blames Merkel for the catastrophe because austerity measures in the midst
of a recession was the wrong way to go. If Greece leaves the Euro it will be the beginning of the end for the currency, because some Countries will not be willing to give up their Sovereignty which will be a requirement for progress towards a Political and Fiscal Union,

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11:02pm UK, Sunday June 17, 2012

The Greek people have voted to remain in the euro, New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras has declared after his party was projected to win the election.
The conservative leader claimed victory in a speech in Athens and called for a government of national unity.

"The Greek people voted today to stay on a European course and remain in the eurozone," he said.

"There will be no more adventures; Greece's place in Europe will not be put in doubt, the sacrifices of the Greek people will bear fruit."



Greece decides on the main pro-bailout party - but it's far from a clear victory

The pro-euro conservative party will win the election with 29.5% of the overall vote - just ahead of the radical left Syriza party on 27.1%, according to an official projection.

That means New Democracy will be the biggest single party with 128 seats in the single-tier parliament - but it will not have an overall majority.

However, the conservatives are expected to gather enough support to form a pro-bailout coalition with the socialist Pasok party to keep the country in the eurozone.

Official projections show Pasok will win 12.3% of the overall vote and 33 seats.

Syriza's leader Alexis Tsipras has conceded defeat, sending his congratulations to Mr Samaras.

"We will be here as the opposition, we represent a majority of people opposed to the bailout deal," he said.

With just over 37% of the vote counted, official results showed New Democracy with 30.5% of the vote, ahead of Syriza's 26% and Pasok with 12.9%.

After polling stations closed at 7pm local time, the first exit poll suggested it would be neck-and-neck between the conservatives and the radicals.



The poll showed New Democracy taking between 27.5%-30.5% of the vote, while Syriza was just behind with 27%-30%.

They were followed by the Pasok socialists with 10%-12% of the vote.

An updated exit poll two hours later put New Democracy ahead by slightly more, with 28.6%-30% of the vote.

New Democracy is committed to keeping Greece within the euro and has vowed to negotiate with Greece's creditors to ease the bailout conditions and try to boost economic growth.

The anti-bailout Syriza had promised to rip up the current agreement - a move many believed would force Greece to leave the eurozone.

Roughly, a single party needs between 36%-38% to have an overall majority - and the figures show the two lead parties well below that.

But of the 300 seats in parliament, 250 will be awarded according to the share of the vote - the remaining 50 will be given to the party which receives the most support.

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The G20 currently meeting might offer help providing the EU has a credible plan to sort out the crisis. Feeling is that too little has been done and
after having almost 3 years to form a workable solution yet the situation is far worse .

Samares, the New Democracy Laeder has three days to form a Government with a coalition partner. Pasok is the obvious choice with 12 % of the vote
but the Leader of Pasok having lost a lot of votes in this Election may not want to get involved with ND on their own but have a couple of minority Parties as well.

Spanish bond sales have exceeded to 7% level , 68% of the population say Rajoy has handled the crisis badly. Protest Marches are taking place against
Spanish Banks, especially the main bank for brtinging the Country down. Spain may need E150 billion because the Housing problem was not taken into account.

Protest marches in Portugal as well.

National Bank of Greece Chairman says now that Greece has accepted remaining in the Euro his Country needs help to learn how to collect Taxes which has proved difficult. Also help with suggestions for growth . Greece needs E300 billion.

David Bloom of HSBC says US $ under real threat with the Election coming up and the U.S. Government being distracted by this instead of concentrating
on U.S. problems.

The Euro is trading at E126/1$. Spanish and Italian Bond yields much higher.

Investors are staying away from the Market, not convinced that enough has been done to avert a bigger crisis, possibly Italy next.

Merkel is expected to soften her demands , will it be enough to stem the tide?

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1:41am UK, Monday June 18, 2012

Robert Nisbet, Europe correspondent, in Athens

Germany has reiterated that Greece's bailout terms are non-negotiable, as the country attempts to form a new coalition government.
Greek voters decided to stick with the euro in an election which narrowly handed victory to the pro-bailout party, New Democracy.


Greek Election Voting
New Democracy
(pro-bailout)
29.7%
129/300 seats

Syriza
(anti-bailout)
26.9%
71/300 seats

New Democracy + Pasok
(pro-bailout)
162/300 seats



But the centre-right party only secured 29.7% of the vote, meaning it has to cobble together a coalition to achieve a working majority in the 300-seat parliament.

The party's leader Antonis Samaras has met with President Karolos Papoulias, who asked him formally to try and assemble a government.

The outcome of the election provided respite to some EU leaders, but Germany has stressed that it expects the next Greek government to stick to the terms of its bailout agreement.

Chancellor Angela Merkel was the first European leader to phone and congratulate Mr Samaras, saying she would "work on the basis that Greece will meet its European commitments".

And Germany's foreign minister, Guido Westerwelle, reiterated the point.


Just six weeks ago the same politicians tried to hammer out a coalition in front of the cameras and under intense scrutiny. It ended in failure - now the whole process begins again.

Sky's Robert Nisbet on Greeks' sense of resignation
"The substance of the reforms is not negotiable," he said.

"Whatever government is formed must stick to what has been agreed with Europe."

Mr Westerwelle added that his country was willing to discuss the time-frame of the austerity programme.

"Clearly time was lost with the election and we have to talk about what that means for the reforms," he said.

"We're ready to talk about the time-frame as we can't ignore the lost weeks and we don't want people to suffer because of that."

But other German officials, who did not want to be named, said these remarks of Mr Westerwelle's were not representative of the government's line.

Six weeks ago Mr Samaras attempted to coax political enemies into a government of 'national salvation' but failed.


ANTONIS SAMARAS: GREECE IS BEING TORTURED BY BAILOUT DEAL
Now the stakes are higher and the pressure greater, as markets around the world weigh in on the political drama.

If Mr Samaras is again unable to reach the number of MPs required to secure a solid majority within three days, the task will fall to the Syriza party - led by Alexis Tsipras - which received 26.9% of the vote, the second-highest vote tally.

In a victory speech in Athens, Mr Samaras called for a government of national unity.

"The Greek people voted today to stay on a European course and remain in the eurozone," he said.

"There will be no more adventures; Greece's place in Europe will not be put in doubt, the sacrifices of the Greek people will bear fruit."

Syriza's leader Mr Tsipras conceded defeat and said: "We will be here as the opposition, we represent a majority of people opposed to the bailout deal."

:: Live updates from the Sky News team as the world reacts

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http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16248530

Just watch the video, the report I posted above.

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The winner of the June 17 elections, conservative Antonis Samaras could form a pro-memorandum coalition. For Athens daily Kathimerini there’s a future for Greece if political parties embody a quality they have been all too lacking in so far — responsibility.

Alexis Papachelas


Family men and women who work hard and pay their taxes have done their duty: The largest portion voted for New Democracy in yesterday’s national election, putting aside their personal opinions and reservations, they supported Pasok as a responsible coalition partner and some voted for Fotis Kouvelis of Democratic Left.

We need men willing to be kamikazes, not traditional politicians who tremble when their political assets are at risk and people are reacting. And frankly, the political parties are not overflowing with such courageous or specially talented individuals.

Now, of course, it’s time for the country’s politicians to rise to the challenge – which won’t be an easy one. Greek politicians, including Alexis Tsipras, leader of the anti-bailout Syriza party, must exceed every expectation and steer the country away from the great perils that lie ahead.

No one can claim ignorance about the fact that the nation is in a terrible mess. No one can afford to be irresponsible just because the electorate sent them into the opposition. We’re all in the same boat.

We have won a bit of time

Antonis Samaras, the leader of conservative New Democracy, fought a tough battle and won it despite the difficulties. He is well aware that his party’s share of the vote in yesterday’s election includes thousands of voters who backed the conservatives because they wanted to avoid a euro exit or a victory for extremist political forces.

Samaras must recruit the most qualified people from across all sectors and not simply rely on the political old guard who all rushed to line up behind him for the photographers at Zappeion Hall [the place in Athens where official meetings take place].

The next government’s room for manoeuvre will be extremely limited because everything is in the red, the public is deeply divided and our partners are rapidly running out of patience.

Can we succeed? Of course we can. We have often shown in the past that we can pull off near-miracles at the very last minute. That said, we will need the tolerance and support of our European partners and international creditors who know what is at stake for both Greece and Europe.

Most importantly, we have won a bit of time and have taken a deep breath and we have not catapulted ourselves outside the eurozone. Let’s hope that when our pro-European leaders sit down to negotiate at the Presidential Palace they will manage to overcome their limitations and exceed our expectations. For once, let them provide us with a pleasant surprise.
A government now!" demands Greek daily Ta Nea across its front page. However negotiations to form a cabinet are delicate. Antonis Samaras has called on all parties to join him in a "government of national salvation," but Syriza has ruled this out and Pasok is reluctant to join without Syriza.

In any case, "Greece is left split in two" by this election, the paper adds. "And a country split in two is a country condemned, whichever camp dominates". This new "national divide" can be found at three levels which are not the usual divisions between right and left, rich or poor, or the centre versus the periphery –


The first level is political. On one side there is New Democracy, Pasok, the Democratic Left, and some small pro-European parties. On the other side, Syriza, Independent Greeks, Golden Dawn and small, extra-parliamentary extreme left parties.

The second level is Europe. For the first time, it is no longer a given.

The third level is distribution of power, in which the State is questioned by the people.

"We are entering a period of turbulence," says Ta Nea. On the bright side, the Greek people are playing an active role in their future. On the negative side, these conflicts never end with just a single winner but rather with many losers.

[Badboy]

TOURISM IN GREECE IS DOWN,PIRAEUS PASSENGER DOWN 15%?,NOT A LOT OF TOURISTS.
COALATION GOVERNMENT TO BE FORMED TOMORROW.

[fuzeta]

IMO Greece will never be right if they do not come out of the euro and have the drachma back. It will be an awful time for them for some time. However I think governments across Europe and banks plus big business frighten everybody with the consequences of getting out of the euro , all for their own ends as they are frightened of other countries following suit and losing them loads of money.

Better do it now than later. I think that eventually it will be the only way to get back to some kind of stability and sanity. It is never going to work in a thousand years, purely IMO

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IMO Greece will never be right if they do not come out of the euro and have the drachma back. It will be an awful time for them for some time. However I think governments across Europe and banks plus big business frighten everybody with the consequences of getting out of the euro , all for their own ends as they are frightened of other countries following suit and losing them loads of money.

Better do it now than later. I think that eventually it will be the only way to get back to some kind of stability and sanity. It is never going to work in a thousand years, purely IMO

I agree fuzeta, but Spain is the next domino to fall and the EU seems paralysed about what to do.

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5:37am UK, Tuesday June 19, 2012

Pressure is growing on eurozone countries at the G20 summit in Mexico to find a resolution to what the head of one international organisation described as "the single biggest risk for the world economy".
Despite the victory of a pro-euro party in Greece's elections at the weekend, there was no announcement of the formation of a government in Athens, amid growing signs of impatience among other G20 nations.

World Bank chief Robert Zoellick said: "We are waiting for Europe to tell us what it's going to do."

But European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso defended the eurozone, insisting "the challenges are not only European, they are global".


Like the World Cup you have to qualify to get to these summits by being one of the world's major economic powers. So although the dominant issue is going to be the eurozone, Greece and Spain aren't at the table

Political editor Adam Boulton, in Mexico
Prime Minister David Cameron urged Greece's centre-right New Democracy party to move "decisively and swiftly" to form a new administration, warning that "delay could be deadly".

But he acknowledged that the crisis in the eurozone could rumble on "for some time" and made clear that he is looking elsewhere in the world for trading partners to replace lost demand from the UK's traditional export markets in Europe.

One senior diplomat said that the eurozone faces "a long, hard road that has got to be travelled" before its problems are over.

And Jose Angel Gurria, the head of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), said the crisis was "the single biggest risk for the world economy".



David Cameron in Mexico: 'Decisive steps needed'

Mr Cameron repeated his call for "core" eurozone states like Germany, as well as the European Central Bank, to take the decisive steps towards fiscal and banking union which he believes are necessary for the euro to function properly.

The Prime Minister said G20 members in the Pacific resort town of Los Cabos were putting "constructive pressure" on Germany.

But he acknowledged that Chancellor Angela Merkel faces political difficulties at home in delivering economic changes which could see German taxpayers making regular payments to support less competitive nations like Greece.

"We have to understand the German difficulties. It is very difficult politically to take the steps that are required economically," said Mr Cameron.

"But nonetheless if you want a functioning single currency you have to take at least some of those steps. You need to have elements of banking union, fiscal transfers and so on."

Mr Cameron said the eurozone faced three alternatives, the most positive of which would involve "action to strengthen the eurozone, to make it more coherent".



Failure to take these steps would mean that "dominoes start to fall, which would have very severe financial consequences across the world and would seriously affect us", he said.

But he made clear that he was taking seriously the possibility that the eurozone will take "enough financial action and just enough political and economic action to keep the show on the road but without solving the fundamental problems", leading to the risk of "perpetual stagnation".

And he indicated that part of Britain's preparations for such an outcome involved building trade links with emerging economies like Mexico.

"It may be that the eurozone crisis is going to continue for some time, in which case the UK must do all it can to put its own house in order and link up with the fastest-growing parts of the world," said the PM, who has brought a 25-strong trade delegation of British companies to Mexico.

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7:18am UK, Tuesday June 19, 2012

The President of the European Commission has attacked critics of the eurozone's crisis management as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) raises more cash for its war chest.
After facing renewed calls for Europe to find a resolution, Jose Manuel Barroso spoke out declaring that "the crisis originated in North America" with the collapse of real-estate-linked financial products.

He also took what was seen as a subtle dig at China and other non-democratic countries at the summit.

"Not all the members of the G20 are democracies but we are democracies, and we take decisions democratically.

"Sometimes this means taking more time," he said.



Jose Manuel Barroso argues the crisis is not purely a eurozone one

"Frankly we are not coming here to receive lessons in terms of democracy or in terms of how to handle the economy, because the European Union has a model that we may be very proud of."

He was speaking as the IMF announced a further $456bn (£290bn) for its euro crisis war chest - on top of the $430bn announced in April.

The so-called 'Brics' - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - were among the contributors.

Tackling the euro crisis has so far dominated the G20's talks in Los Cabos.

Despite the victory of a pro-euro party in Greece's elections at the weekend, there has not yet been an announcement on the formation of a government in Athens.


Like the World Cup you have to qualify to get to these summits by being one of the world's major economic powers. So although the dominant issue is going to be the eurozone, Greece and Spain aren't at the table

Political editor Adam Boulton, in Mexico
Prime Minister David Cameron urged Greece's centre-right New Democracy party to move "decisively and swiftly" to form a new administration, warning that "delay could be deadly".

But he acknowledged that the crisis in the eurozone could rumble on "for some time" and made clear that he is looking elsewhere in the world for trading partners to replace lost demand from the UK's traditional export markets in Europe.

There are growing signs of impatience among non-eurozone G20 nations.

World Bank chief Robert Zoellick said: "We are waiting for Europe to tell us what it's going to do."

One senior diplomat said that the eurozone faces "a long, hard road that has got to be travelled" before its problems are over.

And Jose Angel Gurria, the head of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), said the crisis was "the single biggest risk for the world economy".



David Cameron in Mexico: 'Decisive steps needed'

Mr Cameron repeated his call for "core" eurozone states like Germany, as well as the European Central Bank, to take the decisive steps towards fiscal and banking union which he believes are necessary for the euro to function properly.

The Prime Minister said G20 members in the Pacific resort town were putting "constructive pressure" on Germany.

But he acknowledged that Chancellor Angela Merkel faces political difficulties at home in delivering economic changes which could see German taxpayers making regular payments to support less competitive nations like Greece.

"We have to understand the German difficulties. It is very difficult politically to take the steps that are required economically," said Mr Cameron.

"But nonetheless if you want a functioning single currency you have to take at least some of those steps. You need to have elements of banking union, fiscal transfers and so on."

Mr Cameron said the eurozone faced three alternatives, the most positive of which would involve "action to strengthen the eurozone, to make it more coherent".



Failure to take these steps would mean that "dominoes start to fall, which would have very severe financial consequences across the world and would seriously affect us", he said.

But he made clear that he was taking seriously the possibility that the eurozone will take "enough financial action and just enough political and economic action to keep the show on the road but without solving the fundamental problems", leading to the risk of "perpetual stagnation".

And he indicated that part of Britain's preparations for such an outcome involved building trade links with emerging economies like Mexico.

"It may be that the eurozone crisis is going to continue for some time, in which case the UK must do all it can to put its own house in order and link up with the fastest-growing parts of the world," said the PM, who has brought a 25-strong trade delegation of British companies to Mexico.

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Editor's note: In this story CNN spoke with three people who asked for anonymity because they did not want to reveal details of personal wealth and what they are doing with their money. For this story we changed their names to Spiros, Eirini and Danai.

(CNN) -- Twenty four hours after collecting his €80,000 ($100,000) pension lump sum on May 15, Spiros, a retired Greek public servant, called his London-based brother-in-law for his bank details.

Within two weeks, Spiros had transferred a large chunk of the money, which he'd saved over a 30-year career in the armed forces, to his relative. Spiros feared his savings would be destroyed if he left them in Greece. He wanted to protect himself from a "Grexit" -- the term coined for the country's exit from the eurozone -- and the likelihood of that slashing the value of his money.

"I had never wanted to move my money abroad it but I was forced to do it," says Thessaloniki-born Spiros, sounding depressed as he described everyday life in his crisis-struck homeland.


Unemployment in Greece

Unemployment in Greece
"We're living in constant uncertainty and we don't know if there is going to be food on the table or if we're going to be able to pay for our children's university studies. We don't want to see our children sacrificed and pay for the mistakes of the politicians."

Greece's financial crisis: The human cost

The father of three says Greece's leaders have failed their people. Spiros says finding a safer haven for his savings was the "last option" that came "out of the necessity" to safeguard the future of his family.

"I've always paid my taxes," he says. "This is now a way of protecting our family since the state is not protecting us."


Greece's economic orphans
Greeks divided on Euro austerity demands
Stein: IMF should bail out Greece
Shapiro: Greece cannot be rescued Greece, the country whose collapsing finances triggered the eurozone debt crisis, is facing its fifth year of recession. It heads to the polls Sunday for the second time in six weeks. The first vote ended with stalemate with no party able to form a coalition.

This next vote is crucial; it could change not only the course of Greece, but all of the 17-country eurozone.

The weekend which could change the world

The race between the pro-bailout New Democracy party and the anti-austerity package Syriza coalition appears to be tight.

But should the country remain in political limbo, it risks a disorderly default on its next bill payment.

If Greeks vote against austerity there's a risk the international money that is bailing out Greece will stop flowing.

If they vote for austerity there's no guarantee that conditions will improve. After nearly three years of painful measures Greece's economy has sunk further into recession. Further, unemployment for youth under age 25 jumped from 30.2% in the first quarter of 2010 to more than 52% in the first three months of this year, according to Eurostat figures.

Amid the political turmoil and economic insecurity, many Greeks are simply looking to safeguard their money.

Analysts have estimated a "Grexit" and subsequent return to the drachma, Greece's currency before the euro, could drastically cut the value of existing cash.

What will Greek elections mean for the country's future?

Spiros is one of many Greeks unwilling to risk their savings. The Greek banks are bleeding cash: according to Bank of Greece figures, total deposits in the country fell by nearly 25% from June 2010 to April this year.

We never imagined that something like this would happen -- it's something unprecedented and we're all shaken.

Eirini, a 53-year old Greek woman who works in public relationsOn May 14, uneasy Greeks pulled about €800 million out of local banks, prompting Greek President Karolos Papoulias to relay a message given to him by the country's Central Bank Governor George Provopoulos: Panic was possible.

But a major bank run could potentially trigger the collapse of Greece's banking sector, which could then prompt Greece to leave the single currency, analysts say.

"Greek bank deposits have been falling for a number of years now, this is not particularly new," Jonathan Loynes, chief European economist at Capital Economics says. "But there would appear to be clear signs of acceleration of a trend over the last few weeks."

The rise and fall of the euro

He believes people are driven by fears over a potential return to the drachma -- but warns widespread withdrawals run the risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"If they're pulling their money out then that de-stabilizes the banking system and the economy further," says Loynes. "Then of course there's a danger that it becomes self-fulfilling that actually makes a Greece exit more likely."

Anxiety on the streets of Greece is being exacerbated by the absence of any precedent for exiting the currency. Different scenarios have surfaced -- including a return to the drachma, or having a Greek-specific euro -- but no one knows what the repercussions of a eurozone exit will be.

We have a responsibility towards our country but we also have a responsibility towards our families.

Retired public servant"We don't know what our fate is going to be," says Eirini, a 53-year-old public relations worker from Athens, echoing a widespread sentiment in Greece's capital. So far, she has left her savings in Greece but intends to transfer a large portion of her savings to the bank account of her daughter in the UK.

"This will certainly make me feel more secure," says Eirini, adding that many of her friends and relatives have already withdrawn their money from Greek banks.

"This feeling of the unknown is frightening us," she says. "We never imagined that something like this would happen -- it's something unprecedented and we're all shaken."

Family tragedy tells the story of Greece

At the same time, Greeks struggling under the austerity measures are being warned that an exit could bring even greater woes than those they are living with.

Late last month the National Bank of Greece warned an exit "would lead to a significant drop in the living standards of Greek citizens."

According to the bank, an exit could cut average income by 55%, while any new currency would depreciate 65% against the euro. The recession would deepen by 22%, says the bank, pushing up inflation and sending unemployment levels even higher than their current 21.9%.

Amid the gloom, nervous savers simply want to keep their money safe, according to Danai, a broker from Athens who also has moved some of her savings offshore. "If there's a switch from euro to drachma nobody can say with certainty what's going to happen," she says.

Meanwhile Spiros is determined to buffer his family against this uncertainty despite his deep patriotism.

"I love my country and I've always saw myself being in the frontline, especially now that the times are difficult. But our leaders have betrayed us," he says. "We have a responsibility towards our country but we also have a responsibility towards our families."

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EU Commissioner Olli Rhen says an assessment is possible after a new Greek Government is formed . There will be discussion among EU Leaders about
Fiscal Union, Banking system and Political Union and Spain needs to sort out its banks. ( reminds me of Nero , playing the harp while Rome burns.)

Morgan Stanley says medium term needs action NOW over Greece. A meeting of the EU is scheduled for 28th June.

There is growing anger among the G 20 that they have to contribute a further $465 million to the IMF to help the EU. the EFSF Fund for bailing out
Euro Countries only has E275 billion, Spain needs E386 billion. At the G 20 meeting Barroso took offence at the criticism by some G20 members and th the efforts being made to help out these Countries.

Booth, and Investment Manager says we are no closer finding a solution than when the Greek crisis first surfaced.He says 95% of his personal iinvestments are in emerging markets and he would not hold any in Europe.

Merkel says the loan to Spain will be a Sovereign debt, not a Bank debt which Rajoy wanted.

A Greek Government is being discussed with Samares, Venizoles and Konvelis , little is known about the other 2 Parties but combined I would think they will give the New Democrats the majority he needs to pass Bills in Parliament.Konvelis says they are able to form a Government today. They are hoping
to gain some leeway from the EU but is seems many Countries would be against this. Since Samares won on the basis he would re-negotiate the terms
of the bail-out, this is embarassing.

German investment slumps as contagion is spreading in the Eurozone.

French banks would lose E 7 Billion if Greece defaulted.

[Badboy]

2,500 people have committed suicide in greece since the crisis began.

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2,500 people have committed suicide in greece since the crisis began.

The Greeks are furious that Merkel will not budge Samares led them to believe that if they stayed in the Euro she would do something to help.

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AFP The Daily Telegraph 19th June


The devastating effects of austerity on the Greek population are a warning that history is not an never-ending ascent to progress and enlightenment. Civilisations can also collapse, warns Boris Johnson.

Boris Johnson


It is one of the tragic delusions of the human race that we believe in the inevitability of progress. We look around us, and we seem to see a glorious affirmation that our ruthless species of homo is getting ever more sapiens.

We see ice cream Snickers bars and in vitro babies and beautiful electronic pads on which you can paint with your fingertip and – by heaven – suitcases with wheels! Think of it: we managed to put a man on the moon about 35 years before we came up with wheelie-suitcases; and yet here they are. They have completely displaced the old type of suitcase, the ones with a handle that you used to lug puffing down platforms.

Aren’t they grand? Life seems impossible without them, and soon they will no doubt be joined by so many other improvements – acne cures, electric cars, electric suitcases – that we will be strengthened in our superstition that history is a one-way ratchet, an endless click click click forwards to a nirvana of liberal democratic free-market brotherhood of man. Isn’t that what history teaches us, that humanity is engaged in a remorseless ascent?

On the contrary: history teaches us that the tide can suddenly and inexplicably go out, and that things can lurch backwards into darkness and squalor and appalling violence.

The Romans gave us roads and aqueducts and glass and sanitation and all the other benefits famously listed by Monty Python; indeed, they were probably on the verge of discovering the wheely-suitcase when they went into decline and fall in the fifth century AD.

Whichever way you look at it, this was a catastrophe for the human race. People in Britain could no longer read or write. Life-expectancy plummeted to about 32, and the population fell. The very cattle shrunk at the withers. The secret of the hypocaust was forgotten, and chilblain-ridden swineherds built sluttish huts in the ruins of the villas, driving their post-holes through the mosaics.

In the once bustling Roman city of London (for instance) we find no trace of human habitation save for a mysterious black earth that may be a relic of a fire or some primitive system of agriculture.

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Eurozone crisis

Germany driving up wrong side of the road


19 June 2012
Der Spiegel Hamburg Comment30





Angela Merkel and Germany's quality and tabloid press would have have it that the world is out only for the Bundesrepublik's riches. Not only untrue, laments the editor of German weekly Der Freitag, but also dangerous for the future of Europe and democracy.

Jakob Augstein


Merkel and the tabloids like Bild are telling the Germans that everybody wants their money. Firstly, this is wrong. And secondly, there’s a lot more at stake. If the Germans turn their backs on Europe, democracy itself will be at risk.

A woman takes a wrong turn and drives up the wrong lane into oncoming traffic. The radio traffic updates broadcast a warning of a “wrong-way driver”. “Just one?” thinks the woman tuning in. “There are hundreds of them!” Angela Merkel is this woman, and Germany under Merkel's leadership is this wrong-way driver. We are going against the tide of economic and political sense, and we’re proud of it. We talk ourselves into believing that the whole world wants “our money”. This is, first of all, wrong, and secondly, much more is at stake than our money.

Angela Merkel is at work on a dangerous project: she is loosening the Germans’ commitment to Europe. She would have us believe that Europe is something that the Germans can “do” or leave, depending on whether they benefit from it directly or not. Europe will become a res publica amissa, a neglected affair of state. We went through this once before, and we all know what happened then. Europe is Weimar. And when the Germans turned away from Weimar, it was the end of democracy.

No panicking, please

The talk about “our money”, which everyone supposedly wants, is a bad argument. The Chancellor does not herself say it in so many words: she can leave that to her imperial attendants at the Bild-Zeitung. Both care too little about Europe. They think and feel “Atlantic”. But America has become weak and an unreliable partner. Bild and Merkel would be making a big mistake if they were to undermine the sense of post-war Germany within Europe that, outside our common destiny, Germany has no future as a middle power.

They pretend that we could choose between a European and a German path. But there is no German path. What will Merkel do if the euro collapses, or the Schengen area, or perhaps the entire acquis communautaire – everything that has been built up in 60 years of European integration? Shift focus to China?

After Hitler took power, Sebastian Haffner, looking back, wrote that “one cannot call it anything other than a very widespread feeling of liberation and salvation from democracy.” What feeling would spread if the euro collapses – and with it, Europe? One of redemption, perhaps? The Germans should finally begin to size up the crisis by just such benchmarks. Maybe the country can save itself from its self-injurious selfishness.

But no panicking, please: No one seriously wants Germany to pay the debts of Europe. The days of the gold standard ended when the payments between the central banks were cleared in Fort Knox, and the gold bars were shifted from one vault to another. A banking union and euro-bonds should integrate Germany into a system of mutual security. Without such a system, Europe will break down.

Merkel the Tentative

It is a historical shame that during this crisis we have a chancellor for whom Europe is not an affair of the heart. In such moments, moments that one can in good conscience call historic, it is important to recognise the political realities – but only in order to change them.

So it’s worth thinking about what might have been under different circumstances. Nietzsche wrote: “The question ‘What would happen if this and not that occurred’ is almost unanimously rejected, and yet it is precisely the cardinal question.” We like to put the march of history down to impersonal forces. But at the turning points of history there always stands an individual. Had the “99-day Emperor” Frederick III not died of throat cancer, and had Bismarck stayed longer by his side, would the Great War perhaps have been prevented?

One can assume that an SPD [German Social Democrat Party] Chancellor would have behaved differently at the start of the crisis than Merkel the Tentative. And one can hope that a new chancellor – or a new woman chancellor – will behave differently after the next election. Small note: Hannelore Kraft has replaced Angela Merkel as the most popular politician in the country. Europe just needs to hold out till then.

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Jun 20, 3:50 AM EDT


Despite crisis, Greece still functions

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
Associated Press






ATHENS, Greece (AP) -- A conversation in struggling Greece is, often as not, about the superlatives of doom: The country is on the edge, the people are headed toward catastrophe, and the state, drained of cash and lasting political consensus, has effectively ceased to function. Yet in Athens, home to nearly half the population, the garbage trucks make the rounds at night, traffic police in smart blue uniforms pull over motorists and tourists stroll around the ancient sites or lug suitcases on wheels through the heat-soaked side-streets.

For a country where crisis has become an intimate state of mind, there is plenty of benign normalcy around, lots of reminders of the rules and infrastructure and hygiene standards that define what it is to be a Western European country, imperfections notwithstanding.

Greece's election on Sunday may not ultimately deliver a way out of economic stagnation and the chronic uncertainty that threatens to rattle the global economy, but the near-total absence of violence at the polls, and the pro forma concession speeches of the defeated candidates, spoke to a system that, in the broadest sense, works.

There is the potential, however, for one of Europe's weakest states to sink deeper into failure, even if it does not come close to the dire indicators, including endemic violence, that define Somalia, Yemen and other countries viewed as "failed states" by academics and policymakers. The election winner, the New Democracy party, sought a coalition government aimed at keeping Greece in Europe's monetary union. But political stability and economic recovery is far from assured, unemployment is at a record 22 percent, public services are strained and many Greeks are buckling under austerity measures imposed by international lenders in exchange for bailout funds.

"There are many different ways that you can fail as a state," said Harris Mylonas, author of "The Politics of Nation-Building," a book about state efforts to assimilate refugees and minorities. He stressed that Greece was more susceptible to perceptions and accusations of failure than more troubled countries because it was accustomed to higher standards, the result of decades of integration with wealthy European democracies after the end of military rule between 1967 and 1974.

On Monday, The Fund for Peace, a Washington-based research group, released its annual "Failed States Index," which measures the political, economic and social pressures on nations around the world. It rated Greece as "stable" but declining, at 138 out of 177 countries, with No. 1 Somalia judged to be the most troubled country and highest-ranked Finland seen as the most successful. As a state, Greece was considered in vastly better shape than emerging powers Russia (No. 83) and Turkey (No. 85). Criteria include poverty, state legitimacy, deterioration of public services, refugee movements and demographic pressures.

"The term `state failure' is one that is thrown around a little too easily when it comes to countries like Greece," J.J. Messner, a senior associate at The Fund for Peace, wrote in an email. "Yes, Greece's economy is experiencing significant hardship, but it is still a relatively functional country, is democratic, most (though, perhaps, rapidly fewer) have a decent standard of living and the country is at very little risk of conflict."

Greece has periodically been gripped by riots, protests and strikes, and televised images of battles between masked police lobbing tear gas and stone-throwing demonstrators suggest an image of anarchy that belies a relative calm, despite rising levels of crime. On Monday, a fire-swallower performing for small change at a traffic stop was one of the most flamboyant sights in downtown Athens.

There is a less forgiving view in Germany, a major creditor of Greece that has become increasingly frustrated with the opposition of many Greeks to wage cuts and other austerity measures they are enduring after years of easy credit and state largesse. In a May 25 speech in Berlin, the day after returning from a trip to Athens, the incoming co-chief executive officer of Deutsche Bank said the people and business community do not see a way out of the crisis.

"Greece is the only country about which we can, in my opinion, still say, that it is a failed state," Juergen Fitschen said, according to comments reported by Die Welt and other German newspapers. Greece "is a corrupt state, corrupt so far as the political leadership goes, and apparently some people were willing to support this."

Fitschen had met in Athens with representatives from the finance, industry and maritime industries.

"I asked my counterparts who the people are who they would trust to lead the country into a new era, in whom they trust to ensure the country can be a treasured member of the eurozone," he said. "The number of names they offered was unfortunately very limited."

Dimitrios Tsomocos, an economic adviser to Antonis Samaras, the leader of the New Democracy party, rejected a "failed state" label for Greece and said it was "counterproductive," while emphasizing that Greece was committed to collaboration with its European partners.

Despite Europe's financial crisis, Greece is still providing "reasonable" levels of security, rule of law, political participation, respect for human rights and other services, according to Robert Rotberg, founding director of the Harvard Kennedy school's Program on Intrastate Conflict.

"Compared to Congo or Zimbabwe, Greeks are still `reasonably' well-served. Soon, if they return to the drachma and turmoil, they may suffer inflation and months during which those political goods (essential services) vanish," Rotberg wrote in an email. "But, and here is the big `but,' all failed states must by definition be involved in civil war. Greece is not yet there. Hence it is certainly a weak state getting weaker as opposed to a strong state like Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland. Its weaknesses are palpable and apt to worsen."

In an article on the Greek crisis two years ago, author Mylonas explored theories about why state dysfunction is especially pronounced in Greece, citing the possible impact of:

- Centuries of Ottoman rule that encouraged corruption and delayed the growth of strong national institutions.

- Political polarization that sometimes exploded into violence, as during the 1946-49 civil war.

- Developmental funding from Europe that ended up supporting patronage systems of traditional politicians, whose parties plunged in popularity because of the current economic upheaval.

- A culture of impunity that fueled tax evasion and helped drive the country into debt.

Mylonas said a crisis was brewing in Greece long before the financial chaos hit the headlines, noting a "mentality" whereby people were heavily reliant on the state, not so much for the effective regulation of society, but for the material rewards that it dispensed when times were good.

"People considered it a success to enter the public sector, and even doing business in the private sector was very much linked to the government. The term `entrepreneurship' had gotten a negative connotation," he said. "That is something that is not healthy, at least in a capitalist economy."

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