Re: Smith Statement

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 13:23

MaryB wrote:Well I for one think the Smith sighting is a credible one. But who the Smiths saw is more difficult. But I think they saw somebody significant. Not just any old parent going back with their child else they would have come forward by now. Maybe if the sighting was more publicised they would have come forward. But it wasn't very much publicised was it. I think something more might come out. But on the other hand it might not.

Hi MaryB , we all have opinions and are entitled to them , I"m sure Smith saw someone carrying a child, in fact he says that is quite normal but ,
the start of my doubt came when I realised he did not make a Statement until 26th May. His Family were not due to leave until the 9th, by which time
PDL would be buzzing with the News of Madeleine's disappearance, Reporters everywhere, T.V. News, maybe even a picture of Gerry in the local paper. Yet Mr Smith or his Family never associated this with the man he saw on the night of the abduction and went rushing off to tell the Police? ???????

**AnnaEsse** Mon 12 Mar - 13:57

Panda wrote:
MaryB wrote:Well I for one think the Smith sighting is a credible one. But who the Smiths saw is more difficult. But I think they saw somebody significant. Not just any old parent going back with their child else they would have come forward by now. Maybe if the sighting was more publicised they would have come forward. But it wasn't very much publicised was it. I think something more might come out. But on the other hand it might not.

Hi MaryB , we all have opinions and are entitled to them , I"m sure Smith saw someone carrying a child, in fact he says that is quite normal but ,
the start of my doubt came when I realised he did not make a Statement until 26th May. His Family were not due to leave until the 9th, by which time
PDL would be buzzing with the News of Madeleine's disappearance, Reporters everywhere, T.V. News, maybe even a picture of Gerry in the local paper. Yet Mr Smith or his Family never associated this with the man he saw on the night of the abduction and went rushing off to tell the Police? ???????

I don't think we can say that, Panda. The immediate task for the police was to interview all tourists who were about to leave PDL. They interviewed hundreds. There were probably others like the Smiths, who were staying on longer and the police didn't manage to get round to all of them. The PJ then tried to arrange for those who had been missed to be interviewed in their home country. We have no way of knowing, as far as I am aware, if the Smiths were on some kind of list and the interview took place some time after they had intimated that they may have seen something.

**wjk** Mon 12 Mar - 14:04

Have I read this wrong? It says here Martin Smith made a statement on the 6th May 2007?
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8614-smith-family-statements

Edit to add. It does say it was taken on 26th. What does it mean by diligence on 5th May?

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 14:22

AnnaEsse,

At that time, Smith and Tanner appeared to be the only 2 people in PDL who saw a man carrying a child. I think if Smith had presented himself to any
Police Station before the 9th he would have received priority treatment , even been interviewed by a Senior Officer, yet he is not interviwed until
26/5 having had to return to Portugal for whatever reason and probably his memory not so accurate.

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 14:31

wjk wrote:Have I read this wrong? It says here Martin Smith made a statement on the 6th May 2007?
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8614-smith-family-statements

Edit to add. It does say it was taken on 26th. What does it mean by diligence on 5th May?

Iv'e had a look wjk and it is definitely the Statement made on 26th May......all I can think of is he did maybe go to the Police on 6th May, they took a note and decided they wanted to do a full interview so he came back to Portugal to make a proper Statement.

NoStone Mon 12 Mar - 15:09

Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am connfused now - are we generally convinced that this is an unbiased - untainted sighting and that it was Gerry or are we saying the Smith's were got at by Kennedy and that the sightng is a red herring!!??

Hi NoStone,

Go back to his Statement , the first post on this thread, make a note of our observations and make your own mind up, let us know what you think.

None of us really know, it is just an opinion based on the evidence we have.

Ok - let me re-phrase the question:- How many people are convinced that this is an unbiased - untainted sighting and that it was Gerry or who thinks the Smith's were got at by Kennedy and that the sightng is a red herring!!??

**margaret** Mon 12 Mar - 15:22

NoStone wrote:

Ok - let me re-phrase the question:- How many people are convinced that this is an unbiased - untainted sighting and that it was Gerry or who thinks the Smith's were got at by Kennedy and that the sightng is a red herring!!??

I think it was real as the rest of that party gave statements to the same effect, not like the tapas lot....

mossman Mon 12 Mar - 15:22

NoStone wrote: Ok - let me re-phrase the question:- How many people are convinced that this is an unbiased - untainted sighting and that it was Gerry or who thinks the Smith's were got at by Kennedy and that the sightng is a red herring!!??

now i am very confused. if both statements are read, how does it show that smith was got at by kennedy ? smith implicates mccann in his second statement, or am i mis-understanding you ? i am a bit slow today !

gillyspot Mon 12 Mar - 15:25

As far as I can see Gerry McCann is significantly shorter in height than Robert Murat who seems to tower over other people. I can imagine that Smith may simply say it wasn't Murat as he wasn't tall enough. Just an opinion though as he doesn't state why he was sure it wasn't him.

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 15:53

I think the sighting was genuine, but not strong enough to be taken too seriously. If the PJ were convinced when he was in PDL in May, why didn't
they take him to the Tennis Court or around the Pool at the Ocean Club to verify it was Gerry he saw. They took Jane Tanner in a car to confirm
her sighting of Murat.

marxman Mon 12 Mar - 16:07

gillyspot wrote:As far as I can see Gerry McCann is significantly shorter in height than Robert Murat who seems to tower over other people. I can imagine that Smith may simply say it wasn't Murat as he wasn't tall enough. Just an opinion though as he doesn't state why he was sure it wasn't him.

Murat wears glasses, Smith did say that his sighting
didn't.

**cass** Mon 12 Mar - 16:27

Panda wrote:

I think the sighting was genuine, but not strong enough to be taken too seriously. If the PJ were convinced when he was in PDL in May, why didn't
they take him to the Tennis Court or around the Pool at the Ocean Club to verify it was Gerry he saw. They took Jane Tanner in a car to confirm
her sighting of Murat.. mmm summat to think about

Wintabells Mon 12 Mar - 17:00

The entire history of the Smith family sighting and statements is charted here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

For what it's worth, I believe the Smith family saw a man carrying a blonde, pyjama-d, 'sleeping' child at around 9.50pm on the night of May 3rd 2007. They didn't connect this event with Madeleine McCann case until after they returned to Ireland. They didn't know the man they'd seen, but they did know it wasn't Robert Murat. They told the Irish police their story and each made statements to the PJ. In September 2007 some of the Smith family were disturbed by the images of Gerry getting off the plane, carrying Sean and felt that he strongly resembled the man they'd seen on May 3rd. They made further statements to this effect to the police. At some point they were visited by Brian Kennedy, with whom they refused to co-operate. I don't believe that the Smith family had or have any agenda other than to assist the police in whatever way they can to resolve the case.

**ann_chovey** Mon 12 Mar - 17:32

gillyspot wrote:As far as I can see Gerry McCann is significantly shorter in height than Robert Murat who seems to tower over other people. I can imagine that Smith may simply say it wasn't Murat as he wasn't tall enough. Just an opinion though as he doesn't state why he was sure it wasn't him.

Hi gilly, it seems Martin Smith had come across R. Murat more than once.

http://news.sky.com/home/article/1299179

But Mr Smith is certain that the man he and his family saw that night was not Robert Murat, who is still officially an "arguido" in the Madeleine McCann investigation.

"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.
"He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."

NoStone Mon 12 Mar - 17:38

I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 17:54

NoStone wrote:I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

NoStone Mon 12 Mar - 18:08

Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

Thanks Panda - please bear with me as my brain has fused on this one.

His statement was made on the 26th May but it says he went out to Portugal on the 30th April with a return ticket for the 9thh May!! First part of my confusion.

Second part is - I thought they recognised Gerry from they way he held the child as he came off the plane returning to the UK in Sept! So how could his son phone him and ask him to watch the tv of this is May???

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 18:26

NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

Thanks Panda - please bear with me as my brain has fused on this one.

His statement was made on the 26th May but it says he went out to Portugal on the 30th April with a return ticket for the 9thh May!! First part of.

Second part is - I thought they recognised Gerry from they way he held the child as he came off the plane returning to the UK in Sept! So how could his son phone him and ask him to watch the tv of this is May???

Right, Smith was due to leave 9th May , which he did. My guess is he either called into the PJ Police station , or phoned,before the 9th saying he had seen a man etc on 3rd May about 10pm and a Policeman took notes asking for his home address and telephone number.When all the "sightings" reported had been properly assessed my guess is Mr Smith was asked to return to Portugal to give a signed Statement , which he did on 26th May. Then, in September the plane statement was made to the Garda and sent to the PJ. O.K.?

mossman Mon 12 Mar - 18:34

hi panda, i think that is the order of events also but the second statement was not made until 30th january 2008, looking at the date on it. so he saw him coming down the steps of the plane in september 2007 and then the statement to say he thinks it was gerry mccann is jan 2008.
therefore if mr kennedy has been wheeling and dealing it must be after january 2008 and we do not know if that happened. if mr smith is re-interviewed and is still of the opinion he saw gerry mccann, then it should follow there was no discussions. does that make sense ? when did murat meet mr kennedy does anybody know ?

NoStone Mon 12 Mar - 18:38

Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

Thanks Panda - please bear with me as my brain has fused on this one.

His statement was made on the 26th May but it says he went out to Portugal on the 30th April with a return ticket for the 9thh May!! First part of.

Second part is - I thought they recognised Gerry from they way he held the child as he came off the plane returning to the UK in Sept! So how could his son phone him and ask him to watch the tv of this is May???

Right, Smith was due to leave 9th May , which he did. My guess is he either called into the PJ Police station , or phoned,before the 9th saying he had seen a man etc on 3rd May about 10pm and a Policeman took notes asking for his home address and telephone number.When all the "sightings" reported had been properly assessed my guess is Mr Smith was asked to return to Portugal to give a signed Statement , which he did on 26th May. Then, in September the plane statement was made to the Garda and sent to the PJ. O.K.?

Right, so we know for definate that he left Portugal on the 9th as planned - do we? But we do not know how and when he got his statement to the PJ and we assume he must have gone back to Portugal to sign the statement on the 26th May - but we dont know if he was asked or if he went of his own accord specifically to make the statement or if he went back for other reasons!? Do we?? See why its confusing??

He made a second statement in Sept after seeing the TV footage to add to his earlier statement to the PJ he made in May - right? But was this second statement before or after he had been contacted by Kennedy???

mossman Mon 12 Mar - 18:44

NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

Thanks Panda - please bear with me as my brain has fused on this one.

His statement was made on the 26th May but it says he went out to Portugal on the 30th April with a return ticket for the 9thh May!! First part of.

Second part is - I thought they recognised Gerry from they way he held the child as he came off the plane returning to the UK in Sept! So how could his son phone him and ask him to watch the tv of this is May???

Right, Smith was due to leave 9th May , which he did. My guess is he either called into the PJ Police station , or phoned,before the 9th saying he had seen a man etc on 3rd May about 10pm and a Policeman took notes asking for his home address and telephone number.When all the "sightings" reported had been properly assessed my guess is Mr Smith was asked to return to Portugal to give a signed Statement , which he did on 26th May. Then, in September the plane statement was made to the Garda and sent to the PJ. O.K.?

Right, so we know for definate that he left Portugal on the 9th as planned - do we? But we do not know how and when he got his statement to the PJ and we assume he must have gone back to Portugal to sign the statement on the 26th May - but we dont know if he was asked or if he went of his own accord specifically to make the statement or if he went back for other reasons!? Do we?? See why its confusing??

He made a second statement in Sept after seeing the TV footage to add to his earlier statement to the PJ he made in May - right? But was this second statement before or after he had been contacted by Kennedy???

hi no stone, do we know he was contacted by kennedy ?

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 18:51

NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:I am sorry - its all still as clear as mud to me. If they were there in May how did they give their statements to the PJ in Sept!?? Did they go back - all of them? I thought they then gave statements to the Guarda AFTER Mr Kennedy had called and sfter they had seen the clip of Gerry coming off the plane! Very confused!!

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

Thanks Panda - please bear with me as my brain has fused on this one.

His statement was made on the 26th May but it says he went out to Portugal on the 30th April with a return ticket for the 9thh May!! First part of.

Second part is - I thought they recognised Gerry from they way he held the child as he came off the plane returning to the UK in Sept! So how could his son phone him and ask him to watch the tv of this is May???

Right, Smith was due to leave 9th May , which he did. My guess is he either called into the PJ Police station , or phoned,before the 9th saying he had seen a man etc on 3rd May about 10pm and a Policeman took notes asking for his home address and telephone number.When all the "sightings" reported had been properly assessed my guess is Mr Smith was asked to return to Portugal to give a signed Statement , which he did on 26th May. Then, in September the plane statement was made to the Garda and sent to the PJ. O.K.?

Right, so we know for definate that he left Portugal on the 9th as planned - do we? But we do not know how and when he got his statement to the PJ and we assume he must have gone back to Portugal to sign the statement on the 26th May - but we dont know if he was asked or if he went of his own accord specifically to make the statement or if he went back for other reasons!? Do we?? See why its confusing??

He made a second statement in Sept after seeing the TV footage to add to his earlier statement to the PJ he made in May - right? But was this second statement before or after he had been contacted by Kennedy???

Take it as read everything up to September is right because we could be going around in circles all night and I'm starving. As to whether the september Statement was before or after Kennedy I don't know , I'm sure one of our sleuths will find the date.

NoStone Mon 12 Mar - 19:24

Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:
NoStone wrote:
Panda wrote:

Hi NoStone,

Apparently Mr Smith was at home his Son phoned to ask him to turn on the T.V. (although in the September statement says his wife) because Gerry was on T.V. alighting from the Plane bringing him back to the U.K. . Mr smith said Gerry is the Man he saw and phoned Leicester Police . Presumably they phoned the Garda who took his statement and sent it to the PJ. The Statement to the PJ was taken in Portugal on 26th May2007.

Thanks Panda - please bear with me as my brain has fused on this one.

His statement was made on the 26th May but it says he went out to Portugal on the 30th April with a return ticket for the 9thh May!! First part of.

Second part is - I thought they recognised Gerry from they way he held the child as he came off the plane returning to the UK in Sept! So how could his son phone him and ask him to watch the tv of this is May???

Right, Smith was due to leave 9th May , which he did. My guess is he either called into the PJ Police station , or phoned,before the 9th saying he had seen a man etc on 3rd May about 10pm and a Policeman took notes asking for his home address and telephone number.When all the "sightings" reported had been properly assessed my guess is Mr Smith was asked to return to Portugal to give a signed Statement , which he did on 26th May. Then, in September the plane statement was made to the Garda and sent to the PJ. O.K.?

Right, so we know for definate that he left Portugal on the 9th as planned - do we? But we do not know how and when he got his statement to the PJ and we assume he must have gone back to Portugal to sign the statement on the 26th May - but we dont know if he was asked or if he went of his own accord specifically to make the statement or if he went back for other reasons!? Do we?? See why its confusing??

He made a second statement in Sept after seeing the TV footage to add to his earlier statement to the PJ he made in May - right? But was this second statement before or after he had been contacted by Kennedy???

Take it as read everything up to September is right because we could be going around in circles all night and I'm starving. As to whether the september Statement was before or after Kennedy I don't know , I'm sure one of our sleuths will find the date.

Panda - I would'nt mind going around with you all night if that helped get to the bottom of things!!! statement smith - Smith Statement - Page 2 49091

**Panda** Mon 12 Mar - 20:22

Hi NoStone, we have exhausted that thread so have to start a new one.

Kennedy made out he was bankrolling the search for Madeleine but I don"t think he was. His Corporate Lawyer Ed Smethurst became a Director of
NSU (the Fund) and I read that Kennedy held the contracts for the Detectives he employed and Smethurst wrote them. Kennedy is a Wheeler Bealer,
has had Companies struck off and never once did he employ any Detectives experienced in searching for missing children. Metodo 3. Halligen (d0 you
really believe he was paid £300,000 for investigating?) try money laundering. That is why he went to Ireland. Ostensibly to learn from Mr smith exactly
what he saw so he could pass on details to Gerry, whether there was an ulterior motive I wouldn't like to say, Mr. Smith seems well set up financially and doesn't come across as someone who could be bribed . If Kennedy went there to get him to say it wasn't Gerry he saw he wasted his time, and might have suggested to the McCanns that they take action against Amaral.

I think the shelved files hold sufficient information to prove the McCanns lied and will tarnish their reputation , but when the Prosecutor asked a Judge if there was sufficient evidence to charge the Mccanns, the Judge said "show me the body and that remains the biggest obstacle.

Wintabells Mon 12 Mar - 22:04

Posting this so we can all understand when and how STATEMENT ONE was made.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

Irish tourist clears Murat Sky News

John Kelly
First published: 04 January 2008
(Same article later republished with new headline: 'Missing Madeleine McCann: Irish Witness 'Clears' Murat', 12:00pm UK, Monday April 07, 2008 )

An Irish tourist who saw someone carrying a child in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared insists that the mystery man was not Robert Murat.

Martin Smith, from Drogheda in Co Louth, was on holiday in Praia Da Luz with his family when they bumped into the man just before 10pm on May 3 last year.

The Smith family's suspicions were aroused because the man made no response when they asked if the barefoot child was asleep.

"He just put his head down and averted his eyes, which is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year," said Mr Smith.

Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.

"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.

"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.

"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day. But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."

The Smiths did contact the Portuguese police once they had returned to Ireland, but say they have had no contact with the officers investigating the case since May last year.

"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone," said Mr Smith.

They asked me to make a statement to the Gardai, which I did, and two days later Leicestershire police got on to us.

"My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement. They didn't seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across - and that was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.

"I don't know if this information will help the McCanns, but anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will.

"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless. We had two grandchildren with us at the time and it had a terrible effect on them - they all wanted to sleep in the same room as us."

But Mr Smith is certain that the man he and his family saw that night was not Robert Murat, who is still officially an "arguido" in the Madeleine McCann investigation.

"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.

He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."

Mr Smith's sighting is similar to the one reported by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCann family.

A spokesman for the McCanns said detectives from the Spanish agency hired to investigate the case are now hoping to speak to the Smiths.

Retired Mr Smith, 58, does not wish to appear on camera in order to protect his family from media intrusion.

Sponsored content