Why I Believe Smithman is Real and Likely to be Gerry - Pat Brown

Pat Brown says the reason she believes the Smith family sighting is: the McCanns themselves. patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com

frencheuropean wrote:http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.fr/

Merci!
The elephant in the room, the one sighting that they chose to ignore.

Redwood put out an appeal for Smithman, lovely photos and everything. How easy will it be be to solve this crime and discount Smithman, without identifying him ?

Easy to say here is this very dangerous drug dealer and part time cleaner who took Madeleine. Case closed. Smithman needs to be "eliminated". Are they auditioning for Gerry lookalikes in Belgravia to photograph for the next Crimewatch to "prove " they found another innocent British father.

Smithman is the thorn in the side of everybody. He needs to be explained away with a credible story. The trouble is they have used their chance with Tannerman. There cannot be 2 fathers who have remained undetected for 7 years and who did not come forward.

"But, here we have the McCanns, with two HUGE leads! Two very excellent leads: one that their trusted friend saw - a man coming right from their apartment carrying a little girl. Hey, if their friend isn't a liar (and the McCanns are innocent and didn't put her up to making this man up), "

This is not true for starters , there was "no man coming from their apartment", secondly , the Smiths were interviewed by the Guarda at their home in Ireland, Mrs Smith declined to give a Statement and Mr Smith's Statement is based on a photo of Gerry stepping down from a Plane carrying Sean with one arm , the other obviously to be used to hold on to the rail. Slim evidence wouldn't you say?? I think the Guy driving back to PDL in the early hours of the morning after Madeleine was reported missing when his headlights picked out a couple carrying a child from a lane has more credibility.

I wouldn't consider Smiths evidence slim. His wife said she didn't want to make a statement - she could not contribute to the points being made second time around by her husband.

Her husband on the other hand, saw a man that night, then weeks later saw a news report which jogged his memory with something that looked visually familiar, to the point where he felt convinced enough to contact Police, and state with a good degree of certainty what his concern was.

I would consider them less credible if they were both making the same claim, it would be yet another co-incidence IMO. There was a whole family. None denied he existed but some had sketchy memories for one reason or another. That's more credible for me, than all of them recounting exact and similar details. When they saw him, it was a non-event. They passed a man on a street, nothing untoward in that at the time. Why would they remember lots of details.

Tannerman is gone now. Importantly we have been told he exists by Redwood. I think this is crucial. Had he said Tanner was mistaken there was no man, then Smithman could be explained away with a side photo and old clothing. Now though Redwood wants us to believe there were two men that night in PDL walking the streets with blond, sleeping, three year old daughters, both in similar pyjamas and uncovered, one of whom was identified by a witness as McCann.

A very big ask I think.

[quote="mossman"]I wouldn't consider Smiths evidence slim.  His wife said she didn't want to make a statement - she could not contribute to the points being made second time around by her husband.

Her husband on the other hand, saw a man that night, then weeks later saw a news report which jogged his memory with something that looked visually familiar, to the point where he felt convinced enough to contact Police, and state with a good degree of certainty what his concern was.

I would consider them less credible if they were both making the same claim, it would be yet another co-incidence IMO.  There was a whole family.  None denied he existed but some had sketchy memories for one reason or another.  That's more credible for me, than all of them recounting exact and similar details.  When they saw him, it was a non-event.  They passed a man on a street, nothing untoward in that at the time.  Why would they remember lots of details.

Tannerman is gone now.  Importantly we have been told he exists by Redwood.  I think this is crucial.  Had he said Tanner was mistaken there was no man, then Smithman could be explained away with a side photo and old clothing.  Now though Redwood wants us to believe there were two men that night in PDL walking the streets with blond, sleeping, three year old daughters, both in similar pyjamas and uncovered, one of whom was identified by a witness as McCann.
 But, here we have the McCanns, with two HUGE leads! Two very excellent leads: one that their trusted friend saw - a man coming right from their apartment carrying a little girl. Hey, if their friend isn't a liar (and the McCanns are innocent and didn't put her up to making this man up),

A very big ask I think.[/quote

Yes Mossman, I seem to remember that Mr. Smith went to the Police while he was in PDL after hearing of the "abduction" and made a statement  then.
Four months later he is watching T.V. see's Gerry carrying Sean from the plane and it reminds him of the Guy who passed the Family on that night in PDL , anybody climbing down stairs would hold a child that way to have the other hand holding on to the rail. Maybe, had the Portugese Police arranged for Mr. Smith and Family to see Gerry before he left PDL, things might have been different. Also, of course, the Smiths would have still been in Portugal and seen the McCanns , yet none of them identified him then from T.V. Reports


]

they could have saved millions , get them on itv yes the love the tv shows , lie detector test game over

Panda at the time Smith "identified" McCann he was home in Ireland and the identifying footage was of McCann running home to UK. Neither were in Portugal when the possible identification came to light. When it did Snr Amaral put the wheels in motion for Smith to back to Portugal. Amaral was removed from the case before it happened, his successor chose not to carry it through.

People will carry children in similar manners but not exactly the same. From Smiths perspective though, the overall image - size, height, colouring, coupled with carrying a child, is what might have caused the "flashback".

There was no real purpose that I can think of in asking Smith to look at McCann in PDL in the Summer. At that point Smithman could have been any of the Tapas group, a contact in Portugal, or indeed an innocent father with child.

None of the Smiths identified other than the father identified Gerry, and not because of his facial features. Seeing him in Portugal during the intervening period, they would never have identified him anyway, in this way.

At the end of the day if Smith is wrong, then who is the man and the child ? That is what Redwood needs to confirm who he "solves" this case.

mossman wrote:Panda at the time Smith "identified" McCann he was home in Ireland and the identifying footage was of McCann running home to UK.  Neither were in Portugal when the possible identification came to light.  When it did Snr Amaral put the wheels in motion for Smith to back to Portugal.  Amaral was removed from the case before it happened, his successor chose not to carry it through.

People will carry children in similar manners but not exactly the same.  From Smiths perspective though, the overall image - size, height, colouring, coupled with carrying a child, is what might have caused the "flashback".  

There was no real purpose that I can think of in asking Smith to look at McCann in PDL in the Summer.  At that point Smithman could have been any of the Tapas group, a contact in Portugal, or indeed an innocent father with child.

None of the Smiths identified other than the father identified Gerry, and not because of his facial features.  Seeing him in Portugal during the intervening period, they would never have identified him anyway, in this way.

At the end of the day if Smith is wrong, then who is the man and the child ?  That is what Redwood needs to confirm who he "solves" this case.

Mossman, the Smith Family were in Portugal the night Madeleine disappeared , I think only for 3 or 4 more days. When they saw the news about a missing child the morning after Madeleine disappeared Mr Smith went to the Police and made a short statement probably to say a Man carrying a child passed the family after 10pm . If I was him , I would probably have done the same in the hope that my description might be relevant.

Anyway, let's agree to differ ,  

This sighting of the couple caught in the headlights of a car or van certainly doesn't seem to be put forward very much although I think it did happen. I read about it at the time and it said around 6 am. Firstly it was a couple carrying a child and then another paper changed the story into a couple dragging a child. Either it did happen or it did happen but nobody seems to be very bothered about this one.

Hi MaryB, while cleaning the Bathroom, I just had another thought......I know, sad isn't it.  

Going back to timelines , Kate ran screaming to the Tapas Bar to report Madeleine's disappearance about 10pm. Mrs Fenn reported that she heard the commotion on 5a's Balcony and leaned over from her Balcony to ask what was the matter. Gerry called up to say his daughter was missing, Mrs Fenn asked if he wanted her to phone the Police but he told her they had already been notified., that would have been about 10.15 but the Police said the call to them was logged in at 10.40pm and they arrived at the Ocean Club after 11pm. The time from 10.15pm when Mrs Fenn spoke to Gerry would have left very little time for him to pick up Madeleine, in front of everyone? and walk to the street where the Smiths say "Gerry" passed them at about 10.15 pm when they had just left the Pub, sort that one out .  

Hi Panda.  I think the timelines are wrong.  I go with alert that Madeleine was missing happened quite a bit earlier like say 9.40 as I think I read a restaurant worker said there was nobody left at the tabe around 9.45 except Diane Webster.  I thought the Smith sighting was around 10 pm.   It's a mystery.

Mrs Fenn heard the commotion at 10.30pm

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8609-statement-of-mrs-fenn

The Smiths Statements

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8614-smith-family-statements

Wow wjk, you have been busy.....thanks. x

Roughly, Gerry was on the balcony at 10.30pm according to Mrs Fenn, give or take a few minutes, add the testimony of Batista, the OC Manageress who stated all the tapas group were in 5a and she was worried about contamination , I don't know what time she arrived, but Gerry was there and it was before the Police arrived. If the time Kate discovered Madeleine missing was 10pm , and rushed into the Restaurant screaming that Madeleine had been abducted Gerry was there, and in the OC Foyer, prostrate , when the Police arrived , so give or take a few minutes , how could it have been Gerry the Smiths saw???

If someone can find a Map of the area the Smiths saw a man carrying a child and how far away from Apartment 5a it might help . I believe the Smith's maybe saw a Man carrying a child from the OC , but I don't think it was Gerry.

All the statements are here

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/f167-witness-statements


It quite interesting to go through them again every now and then just to remind yourself of the details.

It is good to see this forum still very active.... I am very impressed by the people that make this forum continue.

I would like to ask if someone has checked the route where Mr Smith saw the man and child. Is it going in the direction of this scrubland where digging is now being made by police?

He didn't say his daughter had been abducted ...


I think he said...a child.

DavidA wrote:It is good to see this forum still very active.... I am very impressed by the people that make this forum continue.

I would like to ask if someone has checked the route where Mr Smith saw the man and child. Is it going in the direction of this scrubland where digging is now being made by police?

Just found this map - S = Smith and to the left is part of the dark-coloured search site. Very close!

Hi David, if ever we find out what really happened on that fateful night, MM would collapse under the weight of all Members past and present trying to post at he same time.  

When Pat Brown first mooted her theory I thought she could not have investigated the timelines . I did ask earlier if there was a Map available to show how far away 5a was from the road the Smiths walked down after they left the Pub, I'm sure some clever Member will find it.

The couple carrying something caught in the headlights of a Car in the early hours of the morning is more credible. When the McCann family were moved to the Payne's apartment the McCanns would have still had a key to be able to access 5a because at that stage the apartment was not considered a crime scene. What if Gerry found Madeleine dead on his 9pm check and hastily put her body in his tennis bag and hid it in the Wardrobe until he could think properly. Kate genuinely raised thee alarm and in the early hours Gerry confessed to Kate and they took Madeleine's body out of 5a and disposed of it. The kneeling on the bed was a distraction to stop the Portugese Police asking awkward questions and searching 5a.

Panda, yes I think what you wrote is logical actions, and make sense if this is what happened. It will be good when the truth of this is known.

I still believe whatever happened, happened the day before (or two days before maybe) because I have not ever understood how it is possible to have so few photos of their children from a holiday. Plus the other evidence of crying and difficulties before the holiday (the airport bus), and the story of Kate and Gerry sleeping separately some days before.

almostgothic wrote:

DavidA wrote:It is good to see this forum still very active.... I am very impressed by the people that make this forum continue.

I would like to ask if someone has checked the route where Mr Smith saw the man and child. Is it going in the direction of this scrubland where digging is now being made by police?

Just found this map - S = Smith and to the left is part of the dark-coloured search site. Very close!

This is very interesting because I was thinking why did the police choose this area to search? Maybe one reason was because of the Smith sighting.

What would be really interesting to know, is when Kate and Gerry started the search that night, did they go in that direction or the opposite direction?

David, I think Gerry summed it up when he said "It was our holiday too" That is why the children were placed in a crèche all day and every day, the McCanns wouldn't have had them for 2 hrs lunchtime if it wasn't compulsory .Even when Madeleine said to her Mother, "Mummy, why didn't you come when I was crying ", Kate couldn't be bothered to check on the children at 8.30pm but was quite happy to let someone else who offered but just listened at the window. I remember reading about one of the OC Waiters saying he couldn't believe that the McCanns could be so cheerful with their Family and Friends around the Pool days after Madeleine disappeared.

DavidA - by their own admission they searched for an hour at dawn, after the the folk who searched all night finally crawled into their beds. Funny that - you'd think they didn't want to be seen. KM talks of looking in a dumpster and diving through hedges, but that's about it.

Meanwhile, a man called George Brooks (pizza hut owner) was making his way home from Lagos in his car, also at dawn. He recalls seeing a couple carrying a child and they scurried down a side road in a suspicious manner.

Coincidently, the next phase of SY's search involves patches of waste ground adjacent to the Luz to Lagos road ...

When Jane Hill of the BBC asked the McCanns why they never searched for Madeleine, Kate replied "We were busy", no reference to her and Gerry searching , so was their first story true? or did Kate not want to admit on T.V. in case it subsequently incriminated them.? It may well be that the couple caught in the Car headlights were Kate and Gerry going to dispose of Madeleine's body.