This needs to get out there!

Kathbelle, thanks

Fern wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:Ive been catching up on this thread and there is some very good posts.....

IMO the protection of the McCanns is money, mega money and lots of it, along with a wealthy backer with nothing else to do with his money then to give it to the McCanns to be able to threaten anyone that dare question them, will be Carter Rucked as a lot of people have found out, also all the Celebs jumping on board....but where are all these celeb supporters now, we know that the "wealthy backer" has jumped ship.

"then to give it to the McCanns to be able to threaten anyone that dare question them, will be Carter Rucked as a lot of people have found out"

Just who are these 'lots of people' who have been threatened by Carter Ruck ?

Portuguese Newspapers, UK Newpapers, blogs, Debbie Butler, Tony Bennet, Pat Brown and not forgetting Snr Amaral....to name but a few.

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

Fern wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:Ive been catching up on this thread and there is some very good posts.....

IMO the protection of the McCanns is money, mega money and lots of it, along with a wealthy backer with nothing else to do with his money then to give it to the McCanns to be able to threaten anyone that dare question them, will be Carter Rucked as a lot of people have found out, also all the Celebs jumping on board....but where are all these celeb supporters now, we know that the "wealthy backer" has jumped ship.

"then to give it to the McCanns to be able to threaten anyone that dare question them, will be Carter Rucked as a lot of people have found out"

Just who are these 'lots of people' who have been threatened by Carter Ruck ?

Portuguese Newspapers, UK Newpapers, blogs, Debbie Butler, Tony Bennet, Pat Brown and not forgetting Snr Amaral....to name but a few.

If these you have mentioned were so convinced of their (McCanns) guilt then why not stand up to them ? If the evidence is there in black and white to support their allegations then why not call the bluff of CR/McCanns ?

(I have very little patience indeed for Tony B and this has nothing whatsoever to do with anything he has said/done with regards to the McCanns)

I don't think that anyone can say they are convinced of the McCanns' guilt but that all the strange things about this case suggest strongly that they are not being honest about what happened.

I don't really kno Fern, IMO it takes a lot of money..... why doesn't someone take them on??? the only reason I can think of is that Carter Ruck do have a very good reputation!! hense them been one of the most expensive law firms in the UK, or was it that the papers didn't want to upset their good old UK readers by taking on the McCanns??, a couple of years ago maybe, but not anylonger imo.

Yes I agree NBY, its not that we no anything about what has happened to Maddy, its just that people are allowed their persoanl opinions and I personally dont believe what the McCanns or their Tapas friends have said what happened that night of the 3rd May 2007.

Lillyofthevalley wrote:I don't really kno Fern, IMO it takes a lot of money..... why doesn't someone take them on??? the only reason I can think of is that Carter Ruck do have a very good reputation!! hense them been one of the most expensive law firms in the UK, or was it that the papers didn't want to upset their good old UK readers by taking on the McCanns??, a couple of years ago maybe, but not anylonger imo.

Yes I agree NBY, its not that we no anything about what has happened to Maddy, its just that people are allowed their persoanl opinions and I personally dont believe what the McCanns or their Tapas friends have said what happened that night of the 3rd May 2007.

I have no idea either Lilly, I really don't and as time is passing us by, the actions of the McCanns puzzle me more and more.

IF they really are guilty, why not just shut up and go away instead of writing books and going on TV ?

With regards to this NSY review, why on earth would they take such a massive risk requesting something that could result in them being implicated, losing their children and being put away for a very long time ?

It just doesn't add up I'm afraid for me.

Fern wrote:

jd16 wrote:Its interesting how the list of connections lead you straight to the truth and who is right behind the cover up. The mccanns have been directed from the start, they don't have any dirt but know their directors have the power to never allow the truth to be exposed

This still begs the question though JD is WHY are these so called 'directors' allowing the McCanns to continue with the media campaign if their is something being hidden that could cause ructions if it ever surfaced ?

I really don't see this as a credible theory, sorry.

This is your opinion and prerogative Fern, no problem with this at all. The main message goes to the mccanns, symingtons and their cronies who read these forums, you will know that some of us know the truth and will always be fighting to expose it fully

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I don't think that anyone can say they are convinced of the McCanns' guilt but that all the strange things about this case suggest strongly that they are not being honest about what happened.

I am very convinced. The dogs and the total inconsistencies and retractions, changes of stories in their statements that make no coherent sense for starters

jd16 wrote:

Fern wrote:

jd16 wrote:Its interesting how the list of connections lead you straight to the truth and who is right behind the cover up. The mccanns have been directed from the start, they don't have any dirt but know their directors have the power to never allow the truth to be exposed

This still begs the question though JD is WHY are these so called 'directors' allowing the McCanns to continue with the media campaign if their is something being hidden that could cause ructions if it ever surfaced ?

I really don't see this as a credible theory, sorry.

This is your opinion and prerogative Fern, no problem with this at all. The main message goes to the mccanns, symingtons and their cronies who read these forums, you will know that some of us know the truth and will always be fighting to expose it fully

I really couldn't give a hoot either way JD, my only concern is for Madeleine and what really happened to her.

I have no interest in the slightest for the McCanns in the same way as I have no pity for Mr A.

I don't belong to any blog/forum 'clique' and thats the way I shall keep it.

Tony Bennett is a complete nutcase and has done far more harm than good for little Madeleine in my opinion.

Sadly I feel many posters have become far too paranoid that freedom of speach is being denied however thats not how I see it and this forum is an excellent example along with MCF of how posters can have an opinion, whatever they may believe.

If you genuinely feel the McCanns are responsible for Madeleines fate then go ahead and shout it from the roof tops however to ensure those words don't turn around and bite you on the bum, please ensure you have the evidence in black and white to support your views because even though you may have many standing beside you 'online', those so called 'friends' will soon run for cover should the shite hit the fan and will suddenly have 'work' that day (despite spending day in day out 24/7 on a variety of forums)

Although our views differ JD, I do admire your stamina.

Good luck.

It is the mccanns and their cronies who started this and continue to cover it up whilst taking down Maddies name in the process, not anyone on here or Tony who have at heart in exposing the truth of what happened to Maddie and ultimately giving her the dignity she deserves. Her parents have never done this, they were laughing their heads off after only a few days, they even started legal proceedings to give her up to the courts after 2 weeks. Yes freedom of speech has been denied in the process, threatening to ruin somebody's life for purporting a theory from facts is our right to freely speak about, this is what this country is proud of. Even gerry mccann said himself at Leveson he had no problem with this, so why are they suing people for purporting a theory on facts then? The key word is facts, from the PJ files which the tapas 9 and others have all stated themselves in their own words, not us or anybody else. The mccanns and their cronies are the ones using every bit of power to suppress the truth, but there are equally ones on the other side who will never stop in trying to expose it

Fern wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:I don't really kno Fern, IMO it takes a lot of money..... why doesn't someone take them on??? the only reason I can think of is that Carter Ruck do have a very good reputation!! hense them been one of the most expensive law firms in the UK, or was it that the papers didn't want to upset their good old UK readers by taking on the McCanns??, a couple of years ago maybe, but not anylonger imo.

Yes I agree NBY, its not that we no anything about what has happened to Maddy, its just that people are allowed their persoanl opinions and I personally dont believe what the McCanns or their Tapas friends have said what happened that night of the 3rd May 2007.

I have no idea either Lilly, I really don't and as time is passing us by, the actions of the McCanns puzzle me more and more.

IF they really are guilty, why not just shut up and go away instead of writing books and going on TV ?

With regards to this NSY review, why on earth would they take such a massive risk requesting something that could result in them being implicated, losing their children and being put away for a very long time ?

It just doesn't add up I'm afraid for me.

Hi Fern, I think it may have been a Mr J Edgar Poe
who said that the best place to hide something or
someone is in full view.Therefore, remaining silent
can foster signs of guilt but courting media, writing
books and going on TV may promote such questions
that you ask.

Oceanico is a very interesting company in PDL, lots of info about them. Oceanico regularly run Golfing Events with the Associação Portuguesa de Seniores de Golfe, curated by Teresa Symington. Oceanico now own the Vilamoura Golf Course that Daily Telegraph journalist, Martin Symington speaks so fondly of in his Algarve Reports. Oceanico often organise events at the nearby Palmares Golf Club - where (allegedly) Murat and girlfriend Michaela Walczuch met with business associates Jorge da Silva and his son on the day Madeleine went missing

In 2008 Republic of Ireland boss Giovanni Trapattoni took the international football team to stay at the Estrela da Luz apartments. Martin Smith from Drogheda (Smith sighting) owns his apartment within the Estrela da Luz complex. Irishman Gerry Fagan, who co-owns the Estrela da Luz with his English business partner Simon Burgess (as part of the Oceanico Golf Holiday franchise), is also from Drogheda.....oooh this just gets more interesting!!!

marxman wrote:

Fern wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:I don't really kno Fern, IMO it takes a lot of money..... why doesn't someone take them on??? the only reason I can think of is that Carter Ruck do have a very good reputation!! hense them been one of the most expensive law firms in the UK, or was it that the papers didn't want to upset their good old UK readers by taking on the McCanns??, a couple of years ago maybe, but not anylonger imo.

Yes I agree NBY, its not that we no anything about what has happened to Maddy, its just that people are allowed their persoanl opinions and I personally dont believe what the McCanns or their Tapas friends have said what happened that night of the 3rd May 2007.

I have no idea either Lilly, I really don't and as time is passing us by, the actions of the McCanns puzzle me more and more.

IF they really are guilty, why not just shut up and go away instead of writing books and going on TV ?

With regards to this NSY review, why on earth would they take such a massive risk requesting something that could result in them being implicated, losing their children and being put away for a very long time ?

It just doesn't add up I'm afraid for me.

Hi Fern, I think it may have been a Mr J Edgar Poe
who said that the best place to hide something or
someone is in full view.Therefore, remaining silent
can foster signs of guilt but courting media, writing
books and going on TV may promote such questions
that you ask.

This is what I used to believe infact along with several points made by another poster (can't recall who) with regards to keeping the family happy however now that NSY is involved along with the possible huge implications, should they find something damning against them they would lose everything, it really doesn't make sense at all if they really are guilty.
Of course some may say that they did this knowing that they would be 'protected' however surely this would require the need for NSY to be also be dragged in to this amazing cover-up involving dozens more.

I have faith in NSY and the review they are doing and hope that for Madeleines sake during their extensive examination of the files that something will emerge from this that could give some sort of solid lead as to what may have happened to her.

jd16 wrote:Oceanico is a very interesting company in PDL, lots of info about them. Oceanico regularly run Golfing Events with the Associação Portuguesa de Seniores de Golfe, curated by Teresa Symington. Oceanico now own the Vilamoura Golf Course that Daily Telegraph journalist, Martin Symington speaks so fondly of in his Algarve Reports. Oceanico often organise events at the nearby Palmares Golf Club - where (allegedly) Murat and girlfriend Michaela Walczuch met with business associates Jorge da Silva and his son on the day Madeleine went missing

In 2008 Republic of Ireland boss Giovanni Trapattoni took the international football team to stay at the Estrela da Luz apartments. Martin Smith from Drogheda (Smith sighting) owns his apartment within the Estrela da Luz complex. Irishman Gerry Fagan, who co-owns the Estrela da Luz with his English business partner Simon Burgess (as part of the Oceanico Golf Holiday franchise), is also from Drogheda.....oooh this just gets more interesting!!!

So why on earth would they allow the McCanns and the press to diss Portugal to the extremes that they have...we've had all sorts of media people ranting on about how they'll never go back to Portugal as a result of the case (tho I doubt Portugal will miss them)

It doesn't make sense that all of these people would be supporting the McCanns or involved in the case in any way whatsoever, as it would be the worst business move ever...drive away business by being involved in a case that suggests paedophiles are wandering around freely and abducting children from their beds...and you've said it yourself, the owners are so proud of their resorts and are trying to promote them, so it's unlikely they'd be supporting the general tone of the media in the UK and the McCann supporters who blame Portugal for the disappearance of Madeleine.

Sorry we'll have to agree to disagree, I really don't think there is a massive conspiracy...I just don't see the point or any reason for it.

susible wrote:

jd16 wrote:Oceanico is a very interesting company in PDL, lots of info about them. Oceanico regularly run Golfing Events with the Associação Portuguesa de Seniores de Golfe, curated by Teresa Symington. Oceanico now own the Vilamoura Golf Course that Daily Telegraph journalist, Martin Symington speaks so fondly of in his Algarve Reports. Oceanico often organise events at the nearby Palmares Golf Club - where (allegedly) Murat and girlfriend Michaela Walczuch met with business associates Jorge da Silva and his son on the day Madeleine went missing

In 2008 Republic of Ireland boss Giovanni Trapattoni took the international football team to stay at the Estrela da Luz apartments. Martin Smith from Drogheda (Smith sighting) owns his apartment within the Estrela da Luz complex. Irishman Gerry Fagan, who co-owns the Estrela da Luz with his English business partner Simon Burgess (as part of the Oceanico Golf Holiday franchise), is also from Drogheda.....oooh this just gets more interesting!!!

So why on earth would they allow the McCanns and the press to diss Portugal to the extremes that they have...we've had all sorts of media people ranting on about how they'll never go back to Portugal as a result of the case (tho I doubt Portugal will miss them)

It doesn't make sense that all of these people would be supporting the McCanns or involved in the case in any way whatsoever, as it would be the worst business move ever...drive away business by being involved in a case that suggests paedophiles are wandering around freely and abducting children from their beds...and you've said it yourself, the owners are so proud of their resorts and are trying to promote them, so it's unlikely they'd be supporting the general tone of the media in the UK and the McCann supporters who blame Portugal for the disappearance of Madeleine.

Sorry we'll have to agree to disagree, I really don't think there is a massive conspiracy...I just don't see the point or any reason for it.

If there is nothing untoward about this case, why did the McCanns phone Gordon Brown, when they should have been out looking for Madeleine?

Why did Gordon Brown, on hearing the news immediately dispatch two British Envoys who were based in Portugal? According to information in the files, the two envoys were told by Gordon Brown, not to leave the McCanns side.

Why were the McCanns given a spokesperson?

Why did people like Richard Branson who had already given the fund to find Madeleine £100k, say he would pay for the best lawyers available to defend the McCanns, if they were going to be prosecuted?

Why did the British Government refuse to help Ben Needham's family, when they were asked before and after Madeleine disappeared?

Why were the McCanns told they could leave Portugal for home and given a police escort to the airport, less than 48 hours after they were made arguidos.

Why did Robert Murat have to stay in Portugal and comply with the rules of the arguido status?

If there is nothing untoward about this case why were the McCanns given all this special treatment? After all they were the ones who were responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, whether she was abducted or not.

I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

susible, you sound so much like fern...if this is not for you then why post on it? Forget about it and concentrate what is for you. If you cannot see that it protects Mark Warners business to have an abduction, thereby protecting their business from the trouble it was already in, well I just don't know what to say tbh apart from the obvious

So why on earth would they allow the McCanns and the press to diss Portugal to the extremes that they have

..maybe to turn the PJ away from truth? Do you have any sense of how people operate?

so it's unlikely they'd be supporting the general tone of the media in the UK and the McCann supporters who blame Portugal for the disappearance of Madeleine

Its only the mccanns and their cronies, supported by the spineless media (under threat) that are blaming the Portugeuse...why? do I really need to explain the absolute bleeding obvious

To the mccanns, if you think you are home and dry...think again...seriously

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

what absolute rubbish. Learn more about the real world

Why did people like Richard Branson who had already given the fund to find Madeleine £100k, say he would pay for the best lawyers available to defend the McCanns, if they were going to be prosecuted?

Why would Richard Branson ever be interested in guaranteeing the mccanns legal expenses? Richard Branson sister Vanessa Branson co owns the Riad el Fenn hotel in Marrakech, Morocco where the alleged sighting of Maddie on 9th May 2007 was reported 15 mins around the corner. Of all the places in the whole world it was here!! Vanessa Branson's co-owner of the hotel is the very one who recruited clarence eden mitchell on the case, one Howell James...who just happened to be John Majors political secretary and at the time in May 2007 was tony blairs Permanent Secreatry of Communications

And lets not forget John Buck who was already on his way before the PJ was called. Funny that David Symingtons nephew John Symington is Britains' Honorary Consul in Porto and a colleague of former British Ambassador in Portugal John Buck (who was consul to the McCanns)

What has Amaral being saying for 5 years....it was the British Intervention that stopped the truth from being exposed. I think we can see why. Just hope he will expose this in his upcoming court case. Maybe this is why we had the Express report yesterday about diplomatic ties....pre empting

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

You don't need a cast of thousands, think of it more like a film with principal actors, supporting roles and lots and lots of extras who don't need to know the script to act.
Supporting roles don't need to know the script either, just get their few lines right. One is then left with the principal actors, of which there is no more than a handful.

9/11 should otherwise have needed a cast of tens of thousands, in fact I don't think even Bush knew exactly what was required of him. Got his lines wrong of course. The conservative estimate for the number of people 'in the know' would be about 30. This theory is from a German government source, not a random blog out to expose conspiracies.

I don't think the McCann affair was originally a conspiracy, it became one because Gerry got far too important people mixed up in it and because it probably means a lot, a lot of money and power. The conspiracy was more in the cover up than the original crime which was executed so badly that it needed teams of lawyers and PR to plug the holes.
We now have the Home Office saying that it would upset the Portuguese, Gordon Brown saying at the start that it was a matter of National Security. How??
Two chav arrogant doctors out to make a name for themselves? Those two are a thorn in the side of whoever needs to keep them out of jail.
Probably even less popular with their protectors than than the likes of us.

Staying in the limelight is their only place of safety. Imo of course.

Brilliant post Tigger

Reminds me of the anology of the First
Egyptian pyramid. Built by thousands of
dying workers who never realised their
completed product, nor did they care or
know of its outcome.Moreover, even it's
architects/designers never set eyes on
their finished article.However, the thing
was built.

jd16 wrote:

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

what absolute rubbish. Learn more about the real world

Between this and your previous reply to me, all I can say is how rude and deluded you are..I live in the real world thank you very much, you are so determined to make this case a cloak and dagger affair involving a host of characters, that you cannot see the wood for the trees.

And if all of your theories are true, then I cannot understand why you are here, because surely that must mean that Madeleine will never get justice and you are just wasting your time talking about it, because lets face it, if the case is as you say and all these people, companies etc ARE involved, then the McCann's are never going to be arrested and charged and they'll just go on doing what they're doing now for the rest of time!

I don't believe that, I do believe that the McCann's have been very lucky so far, and as Tigger says in the post following yours, many people have been hoodwinked into being part of it, but it's notable that they're not visible now, and I DO believe that Madeleine will get the justice she deserves, I have to believe that or there would be no point in my being here either!

Oh and no, I am not Fern, or anyone else on here...just susible, and the reason I don't post that much is because I prefer to read and don't have that much to add most of the time, and also when I do post, there are a number of posters whose paranoia levels are so high, that I'll make a point and instantly get jumped on (dbret affair is a good case in point..and oh I was right about him!)

jd16 wrote:

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

what absolute rubbish. Learn more about the real world

Hey, keep it polite, please. Susible has simply expressed an opinion in a perfectly reasonable way and as far as I can see has not been rude to you.

jd16 wrote:

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

susible, you sound so much like fern...if this is not for you then why post on it? Forget about it and concentrate what is for you. If you cannot see that it protects Mark Warners business to have an abduction, thereby protecting their business from the trouble it was already in, well I just don't know what to say tbh apart from the obvious

I've not a clue who Susible is however she/he most certainly isn't moi

susible wrote:

jd16 wrote:

susible wrote:I'm not saying there is nothing untoward about the case, but the post I quoted, and others before it, who involve a cast of thousands is just a conspiracy theory too far for me, and from the post I quoted, why would people who had business interests in Portugal be part of it, it's not a good advertisment for their companies and I just think that sometimes people read far too much into alleged connections that is all.

what absolute rubbish. Learn more about the real world

Between this and your previous reply to me, all I can say is how rude and deluded you are..I live in the real world thank you very much, you are so determined to make this case a cloak and dagger affair involving a host of characters, that you cannot see the wood for the trees.

And if all of your theories are true, then I cannot understand why you are here, because surely that must mean that Madeleine will never get justice and you are just wasting your time talking about it, because lets face it, if the case is as you say and all these people, companies etc ARE involved, then the McCann's are never going to be arrested and charged and they'll just go on doing what they're doing now for the rest of time!

I don't believe that, I do believe that the McCann's have been very lucky so far, and as Tigger says in the post following yours, many people have been hoodwinked into being part of it, but it's notable that they're not visible now, and I DO believe that Madeleine will get the justice she deserves, I have to believe that or there would be no point in my being here either!

Oh and no, I am not Fern, or anyone else on here...just susible, and the reason I don't post that much is because I prefer to read and don't have that much to add most of the time, and also when I do post, there are a number of posters whose paranoia levels are so high, that I'll make a point and instantly get jumped on (dbret affair is a good case in point..and oh I was right about him!)