Scotland Would Be 'Outside The EU', Warns Spanish PM

Scottish Independence: Scotland Would Be 'Outside The EU', Warns Spanish PM
The Huffington Post UK | Posted: 28/11/2013 11:39 GMT | Updated: 28/11/2013 11:39 GMT

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/28/scotland-independence-european-union-_n_4354989.html

An independent Scotland would not automatically become a member of the European Union, the Spanish prime minister has said.

The comments by Mariano Rajoy are a damaging blow to Alex Salmond's claim that Scotland would be able to negotiate its long-term membership of the EU from within the bloc, should Scots vote to break-up the United Kingdom in 2014.

"I would like that the consequences of that secession be presented with realism to Scots," Rajoy said yesterday. "Citizens have the right to be well informed and particularly when it's about taking decisions like this one."

"I respect all the decisions taken by the British, but I know for sure that a region that would separate from a member state of the European Union would remain outside the European Union and that should be known by the Scots and the rest of the European citizens".

Rajoy's comments have also been interpreted as a warning to the Catalan region of Spain, whose regional government wants to hold its own referendum on independence from Madrid.

The SNP's White Paper on Scottish independence published on Tuesday argues that Scotland will be able to negotiate a "smooth transition" to full EU membership between the referendum result in 2014 and 2016 when the break with the UK would be complete.

"The Scottish Government, supported by the overwhelming majority of Members of the Scottish Parliament, believes that membership of the EU is in the best interests of Scotland. It is our policy, therefore, that an independent Scotland will continue as a member of the EU," the document adds.

However to become the 29th member of the EU, Scotland would need to win agreement of all current 28 members. And the Spanish may be less than keen to set the precedent of giving a breakaway state an easy ride in its membership talks.

Alistair Darling, the former Labour chancellor who leads the Better Together anti-independence campaign, said: "This is another blow to Alex Salmond's claims that nothing would change if we vote to go it alone. The Spanish prime minister has just made it clear that everything would change.

"We now know what the position of the Spanish government would be if we vote for independence. This has created even more uncertainty."

A spokesman for Scotland's deputy first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, rejected Rajoy's assessment. “Scotland is already an integral part of the EU, and there is nothing in the entire body of EU treaties which provides for the expulsion of an existing territory or the removal of its inhabitants’ rights as EU citizens," he said.

The SNP has also said it would not seek to adopt the euro as Scotland's and wants instead to keep the pound as part of a currency union with the UK.

"The SNP has also said it would not seek to adopt the euro as Scotland's and wants instead to keep the pound as part of a currency union with the UK"

I bet !

To my way of thinking an independent country should have it's own currency. I don't see how it could keep sterling if it is nothing to do with the rest of the UK.  So unless Scotland wants to apply to join the Euro then it should have a new one.
Hopefully for Scotland this will be all in place in the event of there being a yes vote.  I believe  it is September the people vote so really this question of currency should have been all sorted

fuzeta wrote:To my way of thinking an independent country should have it's own currency. I don't see how it could keep sterling if it is nothing to do with the rest of the UK.  So unless Scotland wants to apply to join the Euro then it should have a new one.
Hopefully for Scotland this will be all in place in the event of there being a yes vote.  I believe  it is September the people vote so really this question of currency should have been all sorted

The Scottish £ can be used in the U.K. Fuzeta and since the Oil is shared in a sense there could be complications . Apart from the Oil Scotland doesn't offer much in the way of exports I can't see how Scotland can create much wealth. It has been pointed out that Belgium and I think Luxembourg share the same currency. I wouldn't be surprised if because of the currency, the Scots vote NO.

Panda wrote:

fuzeta wrote:To my way of thinking an independent country should have it's own currency. I don't see how it could keep sterling if it is nothing to do with the rest of the UK.  So unless Scotland wants to apply to join the Euro then it should have a new one.
Hopefully for Scotland this will be all in place in the event of there being a yes vote.  I believe  it is September the people vote so really this question of currency should have been all sorted

The Scottish £  can be used  in the U.K. Fuzeta and since the Oil is shared in a sense  there could be complications . Apart from the Oil Scotland doesn't offer much in the way of exports  I can't see how Scotland can create much wealth. It has been pointed out that Belgium and I think Luxembourg share the same currency.  I wouldn't be surprised if because of the currency, the Scots vote NO.

What comics have you been reading now, Panda? We export whisky, beef, salmon, cloth, we have thriving tourist, banking, insurance and light engineering industries. We are the WORLD leader in designing, developing and exporting computer games. We grow most of our own food and produce most of our own energy. We'd survive perfectly adequately without the rest of the UK, thank you, but the lies that are spouted from Westminster make our people scared to take that risk. then we have muppets like a SCOTTISH LABOUR MSP telling us that "Scots don't have the intelligence to make political decisions". I hope they get a bloody shock in September.

Panda wrote:

fuzeta wrote:To my way of thinking an independent country should have it's own currency. I don't see how it could keep sterling if it is nothing to do with the rest of the UK.  So unless Scotland wants to apply to join the Euro then it should have a new one.
Hopefully for Scotland this will be all in place in the event of there being a yes vote.  I believe  it is September the people vote so really this question of currency should have been all sorted

The Scottish £  can be used  in the U.K. Fuzeta and since the Oil is shared in a sense  there could be complications . Apart from the Oil Scotland doesn't offer much in the way of exports  I can't see how Scotland can create much wealth. It has been pointed out that Belgium and I think Luxembourg share the same currency.  I wouldn't be surprised if because of the currency, the Scots vote NO.

Hi Panda I know the Scottish pound can be used in the UK same as the Northern Ireland one because it is still sterling just looks different.  I still don't see how they can keep the pound if not part of the UK.  If  Wales also decided it wanted Independence but wanted to keep sterling then we could end up like the euro and we all know how that has worked out!

PS Belgium and Luxembourg both have the euro, same as most of the rest of them, so bit of a different case I think.

I have dual Nationality and own land and a tree in Glencoe.I am not particularly bothered which way the vote goes,though generally speaking i quite like the idea of independence.
I agree with iris that Scotland has a lot going for it.
Seems a bit daft to expel Scotland from the EU but i would see it as an advantage to be out of that frankly.So much so i may be encouraged to come home.

Well yes, I wish they would throw us out of it    I think it is the only chance we have of getting out!!!

fuzeta wrote:Well yes, I wish they would throw us out of it      I think it is the only chance we have of getting out!!!

It is Cameron who is scared of leaving the EU which is why he is delaying any referendum. Britain is the second highest contributor yet has no say in EU decisions, it's crazy fuzeta. I saw a documentary a while ago on the cost of running the EU , enough to make your eyes water.  

My apologies Iris, this is an extract from Wikipedia


The economy of Scotland is closely linked with the rest of the United Kingdom and the wider European Economic Area. Scotland has a higher GDP per capita and larger GVA per capita output than England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom as a whole when revenues from North Sea oil and gas are taken into account.
Scotland was one of the industrial powerhouses of Europe from the time of the Industrial Revolution onwards, being a world leader in manufacturing.[5] This has left a legacy in the diversity of goods and services which the Scottish economy produces today, from textiles, whisky and shortbread to jet engines, buses, computer software, ships, avionics and microelectronics to banking, insurance, investment management and other related financial services.
In common with most other advanced industrialised economies, Scotland has seen a decline in the importance of both manufacturing industries and primary-based extractive industries. This has, however, been combined with a rise in the service sector of the economy, which has seen significant rates of growth over the past decade and is now the largest sector in Scotland.
The British pound sterling is the official currency in Scotland, as it is in the rest of the United Kingdom. The Bank of England retains responsibility for monetary policy and is the central bank of the UK.

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Why would everybody say Scotland cannot apply to join the EU in it's own right and have it's own currency??? It probably has a higher GDP than some of the EU Members.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/372082/Stay-with-UK-says-Scot-Simon-Cowell-Si-says-no-to-Scottish-independance


except Sean Connery   

So are we expecting Mel Gibson to come galloping over the wall with all his tackle clanging !

Lioned wrote:So are we expecting Mel Gibson to come galloping over the wall with all his tackle clanging !

Sean Connery carries some weight and he is a definite YES to Independence, I think Mel will be leading his Army to the 'Yes' Box and Cameron will be hung , drawn and quartered.

Panda wrote:http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/372082/Stay-with-UK-says-Scot-Simon-Cowell-Si-says-no-to-Scottish-independance


except Sean Connery   

Don't the likes of Simon Cowell and David Bowie realize that they are, in fact, helping the YES vote?   

There's one way to settle it for definite. Put "Braveheart" on the telly the night before the poll.

Panda wrote:

fuzeta wrote:Well yes, I wish they would throw us out of it      I think it is the only chance we have of getting out!!!

It is Cameron who is scared of leaving the EU which is why he is delaying any referendum. Britain is the second highest contributor yet has no say in EU decisions, it's crazy fuzeta.  I saw a documentary a while ago on the cost of running the EU , enough to make your eyes water.  

Good evening Panda

Per Capita Britain is actually the 6th largest contributor. It is true however that we get less back per head than anyone else which is why Lady Thatcher was able to successfully negotiate a rebate, which Blair threw most of away the second he got the chance.

Cameron isn't going to give us a referendum on in or out or for that matter shake it all about. What he actually said was that first of all it depended on him winning a second General election and secondly, a referendum would only be offered after successful negotiations on reforming the EU were completed.

In other words, if, and it's an awful big if, Cameron were to pull a big enough rabbit out of the hat. He would be able to offer a referendum, knowing that many of the eurosceptics as well as the Europhiles were happy with the deal.

There is going to be no such deal. Angela Merkel made a speech the other week, in which she openly said we need not look for her backing and that Europe will not change to suit us. Besides that, we have 20 odd countries happily taking money out of the EU. Money provided by us. They all have a vote, which already outnumbers us, and that isn't counting the countries such a Turkey, lining up to get their fingers in the till as well. I would add Ukraine to that list, they already want some £35 billion, but I don't think it's over with Russia yet by a long way.

No Panda I'm sorry but there will be no referendum, and Cameron won't even be lying which is what British politicians do these days. he simply chose his words very very carefully.

Iris wrote:There's one way to settle it for definite.  Put "Braveheart" on the telly the night before the poll.

Your not wrong there.It was on last night and its just a case of how many more times !

On again tonight (More4) !

One would have thought Cameron would be very much in favour of Scotland going off on their own looking at the political map.
Just to remind us that Labour has 41 seats and Conservative has just One ! think about 11 lib/dems but will have to go check that.
Anyway less 40 Labour seats would give Cameron a good chance of a majority.

Meanwhile for some time it has been known that the electoral boundarys favour Labour ......

'The British electoral system is biased in favour of Labour due to the uneven size of MPs constituencies, a report warned today.

Because the average Labour seat is much smaller than the typical Tory one it means Labour support yields more MPs than Conservative support does.

This means Labour can win an election with just 3 per cent more votes than the Conservatives, while an outright Tory victory requires an 11 per cent higher share of the vote than Labour.

The study warns that Labour could win the 2015 General Election – despite winning fewer votes than the Tories.

The vast disparity in seat size explains why the Tory-LibDem coalition is pushing ahead with plans to make UK constituencies equal in size – proposals which Labour oppose.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343875/British-voting-biased-Labour-constituencies-uneven-size.html#ixzz31KHMm0CY

Nick Clegg also opposed the redrawing of the boundaries some time ago. I think Cameron had, yet again, to give in to him so he could count on the liberal vote for something else!

Had forgotten about Clegg,funny enough me and my mate where talking to him on the phone yesterday.

September will be interesting the current best bet odds show a NO vote at 4/11 on and a yes vote at 5/2 so its quite close in those terms.

Less than a year from the general election and the party that adopts major reform to the number of constituencies
will win.But none of them will touch that subject i dont suppose.