LBC Nick Ferrari Interview with Andy Trotter, David Hughes & caller Sarah from Wiltshire 29.10.2015

LBC NICK FERRARI INTERVIEW WITH ANDY TROTTER, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER AT SCOTLAND YARD, DAVID HUGHES FORMER MCCANN MEDIA ADVISER AND CALLER SARAH FROM WILTSHIRE - 29th October 2015

Nick Ferrari - What has 1338 statements, 1027 exhibits, 60 persons of interest having been investigated, 8685 potential sightings, 560 lines of enquiry, 30 requests made to other countries asking for work to be done, and 29 detectives give you. Well it's the investigation as to what happened to Madeleine McCann and now as you have already heard on the News the 10 million pound enquiry, the 10 million pounds enquiry will be phased down from 29 officers working on Operation Grange as it's known to it says here just 4,its still a lot, this as I remind you we are told that Police now won't be coming out in some areas, won't be coming out to burglaries, could you possibly email the details in, they stole my laptop, oh shame isn't it, also routine patrols, there's no future in routine patrols, you don't catch criminals, you really don't need them. But if it comes to nicking Sun journalist 15 million pounds, one conviction that's under appeal, 29 to 1 if you are a football manager by the way imagine running a team, you play 30 games you lost 29 you won one or maybe drew because it's still going before a panel do you think you would keep your job, no me neither. 29 detectives looking for Madeleine McCann does it need a couple of blokes on it yes it probably does because the McCanns ran a very successful media campaign it engendered quite rightly in probably global certainly nationwide sympathy, we would all love somehow find the little girl is wandering around Algeria and is going to be reunited with her parents that really would be a story with a happy ending, sadly if we are realistic you and I, I think probably know and fear which way this is going to go ultimately so who on earth authorised 29 men and women to do all this work. Andy Trotter is former deputy assistant commissioner at Scotland Yard and joins me now. Mr. Trotter, how is it determined how many detectives or officers are put on a certain case, good morning.

Andy Trotter - Good morning to you Nick, I am a little reluctant to take a judgement on the scale of the enquiry and the range of the enquires that have got to be made and all the people who have got to be seen and make a judgement according to that. You know I think many people would absolutely agree that a case like this needed proper thorough investigation it's been a terrible terrible tragedy and we all hope that the Met can make some progress and now they are making the again sensible decision to scale back the numbers to focus on the outstanding lines of enquiry that they have got.

Nick Ferrari - How surprised are you or were you when you learnt read or heard that there would be 29 people on it.

Andy Trotter - I am not at all surprised, it's become an international enquiry and quite rightly you have to get on and deal with it, there's no point in having a couple of people on it and taking forever, if there has ever been any chance of solving this case it has to be done swiftly with the right number of people and I eminently trust the judgement of all those in charge there who know what they are doing and are very very experienced detectives who have worked on some big big cases in the past to make appropriate judgement

Nick Ferrari - But what will they do all day

Andy Trotter - well for goodness sake now these people are working flat out and they are going....

Nick Ferrari - what do they do all day, I don't understand what they do all day

Andy Trotter - Nick come on I mean these are experienced detectives, these are people who have solved many many cases these are dedicated officers

Nick Ferrari - I am not questioning their dedication I just, presumably all the angles that were there we've been down all the avenues have been explored we have got 29 men and women they turn up every morning and I imagine they stay there until quite late at night. what do they actually do what are they going to find all these years on.

Andy Trotter - well that is a separate matter entirely, what I'm saying is these people they know what they are doing, these are experienced people well led and they are now taken the appropriate decision to scale it back to focus on the existing lines of enquiry. The other points that you made in your opening about priorities are entirely different matter. I think that everything has got to be looked at in the context of the austerity cuts that are made in policing right now and the people who are in charge have to make sure there are the right numbers on these enquiries while taking into account all the other pressures they are facing right now.

Nick Ferrari - and that was going to be my final point Mr. Trotter because my listeners that they read that in some areas if their houses are burgled they may not get a police officer to turn up unless it is an even number door or odd number door or whatever it might be and routine patrols seen as not much future in those and we are having police cars that they can't afford to put the lights and two tones on meanwhile we can find 29 blokes and women to look at Madeleine McCann.

Andy Trotter - you know as well as I do Nick you have spoken to the Commissioner about this police officers will still attend burglaries where this is a live scene, there is a chance of catching someone, you've got a vulnerable victim, all of these things will still carry on. where I do agree with you...

Nick Ferrari - this is a rare moment this, lets celebrate this, go on

Andy Trotter - ha ha ha

Nick Ferrari - I think its a first, its literally a first, go ahead Mr. Trotter, ha ha ha

Andy Trotter - Where I do agree with you is that I now no longer in the Police looking.......accurate or inaccurate.. (can't make out what he is saying exactly) I think the Police have got to be really clear about what they are going to do. Now answer 3 nines calls swiftly, get to the scene fast, look after people. I hear all this talk of cyber crime and how important it is but these things are eminently preventable in the same way that motor vehicle crime has been slashed by the motor manufacturers designing it out we can design out the crime, what we can't design out is high street thuggery, yobbery, and the sort of street violence that really frightens people and that's where the Police should be and people in rural communities are very very concerned about the absence of policing they get when they get their plant machinery stolen, animals stolen and things such as that. I think the Police have got to come out now and say exactly what they are going to do in very plain language that can't be misinterpreted by the popular Press and be really clear that they are here to protect the public and look after them.

Nick Ferrari - lets finish on a rare moment of accord Andy Trotter thank you for your time. Mr. Totter was former Deputy Assistant Commissioner at Scotland Yard until very recently. Listening at 12 minutes after 8 is David Hughes former media adviser to the McCann family. Mr. Hughes what made the McCann family, how was it that so much focus attention and indeed Police time was spent on their case.

David Hughes - well I think if one reflects on the statistics which you ran through at the beginning of this discussion what one has to bear in mind is that a lot of that effort was the work been put in by the British Police to make up for the shortcomings of the initial investigation by the Portuguese Police and in some ways going over the issues and possible leads which came up at the beginning but which weren't properly investigated going over those leads some years later I think has contributed greatly to the high volume of activity which you described. That is a fact that we shouldn't lose sight of and I was quite struck watching one of the interviews by one of the police officers last night they were arguing quite strongly that the decision to now cut back to four officers wasn't actually resources led which I thoughts was an interesting aspect of this sort of discussion.

Nick Ferrari - sorry were you able to glean what does lie behind this decision then

David Hughes - well I think what the er, what has been going on over the last year or two has been a sort of reinvestigation going back over the ground of the initial investigation which was obviously felt to be inadequate and the attitude of some of the Portuguese officers which has led to considerable falling out with the McCanns which has led to legal action, er, the shortcomings of that investigation therefore meant going back over the possible leads, some years later which is what the British Police have done was obviously more labour intensive that if an appropriate investigation had taken place in the early period.

Nick Ferrari - But lastly here's the thing that I know intrigues my listeners thousands of youngsters go missing across the country each year, many of them subsequently turn up, they have had rows with parents, or relationships issues or whatever, but there are still more than 150 children on the missing list right now and yet not one of them has had the kind of attention or money that has been spent on this particular case and I come back to my central point why is that do you suppose.

David Hughes - well I think if we look back eight years to when Madeleine first vanished there was a fantastic level of interest partly in many ways simulated by the media, I don't think one can criticise the McCanns for

Nick Ferrari - hang on you don't want the Police responding to what the media says do you, so whoever shouts the loudest, whoever gets more coverage in the Sun and the mirror gets more Police time

David Hughes - I am not saying whether that is right or wrong I am just saying I think that is what happened erm and I think there was a point at which particular various British politicians intervened to guarantee the McCanns a reinvestigation and additional resources and that is what drove it, you know we all remember what a major media story it was but what I suppose my point is that you cannot blame the McCanns for succeeding in getting a maximum possible attention to their particular situation and the maximum, possible resources put behind that.

Nick Ferrari - I don't blame them at all, absolutely, no blame subscribed at all just intrigued as to how. Mr. Hughes thank you, former media adviser to the McCanns in the months after Madeleine went missing. alright over to you for your reaction. Not enough money now to buy Police cars with the flashing lights or two tone sirens but we have got enough for 29 and what do they do all day, seriously, I know he didn't like that question but literally.....morning George (hello what's happened) no nothing come out of Portugal at all, no more emails, no nothing, nothing more from Portugal, no nothing at all, what about the hotel, all done.. erm we'll make some more calls then, well who are we going to call that we haven't called for the past seven years, that's a good point, think I'll have a coffee, coming up we will have your views on the Madeleine McCann expenditure and the 46 million given to disgraced Kids company charity because of a mesmerised Prime Minister. It does seem an extraordinary amount of money and indeed manpower, personnel, Sarah's in Wiltshire, Sarah what's your reaction to the news that they are cutting it down to just 4 detectives.

Sarah - well Hi Nick

Nick Ferrari - hello

Sarah - You inspired me to call when you said to that gentleman what did the Police do all day that's a really good question because I know from what I found out they do for myself the remit was set by the McCanns so all the terms of reference of what the Police were allowed to investigate were set by them and they also enjoy peer status of the Met Police themselves which means they are able to access the Police files as the case progresses and I think that is really limited what the Police have been allowed to do, they have not been allowed for instance to re-interview the McCanns as either witnesses or dare I say it suspects, they have not been allowed to do a reconstruction in situ so they could examine the time line and when people left the table to do checks on the children or whatever and I just think for that reason it's been very very limited when they have been allowed to only investigate an abduction theory its kind of fallen down from the beginning in my opinion.

Nick Ferrari - yes I hear what you are saying erm 29 of them also at a time god forbid someone was breaking into your garage now you might not get a police officer to turn up that's pretty galling as well isn't it.

Sarah - absolutely and especially when we haven't really heard what the Met Police have actually achieved on the case, we know they have examined the Portuguese Police files but I believe they are public record all of us can look at these files anyway and I don't think they have actually furthered the case, if they could prove that they had actually furthered the case or taken it to a new level then perhaps we could understand but they have done none of those things. It's not actually their fault because I just feel it's been a very restricted zone on that case it's all geared up by the McCanns and what they want the Police to investigate too much power in their court I think.

Nick Ferrari - and from Scotland yard Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley says the work we have done has enabled us to better understand events in Prai da Luz and ensure every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened. Dear me its 10 million pounds, 29 coppers, oh dear oh dear this is extraordinary isn't it

Sarah - It is, it really is, I follow the case quite closely and looked at a lot of the Portuguese police files because I can't see that they did a bad job at all to be honest. they did....

Nick Ferrari - why does the case interest you so much lastly.

Sarah - erm I think it's just one of those cases that sort of enduring isn't it, I have obviously controversial feelings I think because of being a parent as well, I know I would never have left my children and certainly would not have expected them to stay asleep while I went out to dinner so I think that just sort of inspired me to follow the case and see what it's all about.

Nick Ferrari - I think a lot of us we've been on those European holidays we have taken decisions as to whether we have food sent to our rooms obviously of course I am no longer with my wife and of course my children are far fitter and stronger than I am but you have actually decide to eat in the hotel room because you just didn't want to leave the child or the children. I know what you are saying but no-one will rue the decision more of course than the McCanns they must think of that I would have thought if not on an hourly certainly on a daily basis. Sarah thank you.

Merci beaucoup cherry for the transcription. The efforts of this H.Trotter to avoid clear answers are pathetic. Last word for Sarah. Good!

You're welcome, Sarah did really well and amazing managed to talk without getting cut off! Well done Sarah from Wiltshire

My thanks as well "cherry1" and congratulations to "Sarah" - well done both of you.

Too bad Sarah couldn't have managed to mention that Kate McCann refused to answer 48 questions when put to her by investigators based on the advice of her lawyer. Which mother of a missing child would refuse to answer when told refusing to do so would hamper the search for their child. Don't get me started on their "fighting fund" started within days of Madeleine's "disappearance" and Clarence Mitchell's speech at a University in England proclaiming his success "Missing Madeleine McCann: The Perfect PR Campaign".

Again, congratulations to "Sarah"!!!!

and a pity a few more people couldn't get on, there was another caller but he was focussing more on the Police and didn't mention McCanns really, I was waiting for Nick to cut Sarah off but good he let her speak

Spot on. well done whoever took down the transcript.

I see it is cherry1... Excellent... especially 'What do they do all day?'... the 29 policemen. Also about the poor cops only being 'allowed' to investigate the abduction hypothesis, and reiteration that the Portuguese didn't do a bad job in the first place, and that anyone can read all about it their files which are in the public domain.

Good for Nick Ferrari, and good for Sarah and a raspberry to the other two.

Ha ha, lets be generous and give them a raspberry each!  

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