Stop Danie Krügel

Danie Krügel is a former South African police officer currently employed as Director (see p. 79), Protection Services and Occupational Health & Safety at Bloemfontein’s Central University of Technology. Mr Krügel claims to have invented a novel technology called a “Matter Orientation System” (MOS) for locating missing items and people, and he has featured in numerous newspaper articles and investigative TV programmes in SA such as 3rd Degree and Carte Blanche where his claimed ability has been naïvely highlighted, usually in connection with missing persons cases. The disappearances of Madeleine McCann and, more recently, Kerry Winter are among the more prominent cases in which Mr Krügel’s help has been requested, but there are several others including that of 7-year-old Sheldean Human, policewoman Francis Rasuge and Anisha van Niekerk.

Mr Krügel is very secretive about his alleged invention but insists that it is “science, science, science! … just science,” using quantum principles in conjunction with the global positioning satellite system (GPS). Briefly, he requires a small sample of the material whose source he is asked to locate – a cutting of hair in the case of a human – which he then uses to perform what he calls “measurements” from a few different positions before announcing the source’s current location within reasonable limits. Scientists overwhelmingly agree that there is no known mechanism that can account for Mr Krügel’s supposed technology working as he describes, and they are therefore eager to validate his claims to novelty. However, Mr Krügel appears overly reluctant to submit to any formal testing by an independent and trustworthy authority. His main concern seems to be that he will have to reveal his trade secrets, a concern that is invalid since such testing need not establish how it works, only that it does work.

For people and families whose loved ones have disappeared, especially young children, Mr Krügel’s claims are a beacon of considerable hope and therein lies perhaps the most compelling reason for Mr Krügel to verify his claimed abilities. How much more ultimately cruel and ruinous is it to live in protracted false hope than to face a potentially devastating truth – a false hope that has been actively nurtured by uncritical media with a craving for perpetual sensationalism? Added to which, if Mr Krügel’s claims do not prove out, there exists a clear danger of significant amounts of wasted effort in pursuing false leads. Recently, Mr Krügel has also claimed that his device is able to detect cancer and other diseases in patients, a claim that is clearly dangerous if found to be untrue.

For these reasons, it is essential that Mr Krügel’s ongoing promotion of himself and by the media be opposed until such time as the validity or otherwise of his claims has been determined.

http://www.stopdaniekrugel.com/

At customs - in South Africa as well as in Portugal -, Krugal refuses to allow his machine to be submitted to security control: it must be neither x-rayed nor opened. He claims that this would damage it and that his production secret risked being unveiled.

Chapter 14 - The Truth of the lie

The Cases

Kerry Winter
Outcome: Possible next case
[more...]

Anisha van Niekerk
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Ray Flanagan
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Van Rooyen Victims
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Frances Rasuge
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Madeleine McCann
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Rayno Gouws
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Dirk Booysen
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Neil Calitz
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Naledi Ntebele
Outcome: Claimed success
[more...]

De Deur Murder
Outcome: Claimed success
[more...]

Sheldean Human
Outcome: Failure
[more...]

Support Us

Please note: If you wish to comment here, please provide your name, and structure the comment to make it clear that you share the opinions and support the objectives expressed in our Open Letter to Danie Krügel.

Comment moderation is active, and comments will appear only after approval. Anonymous comments will not be approved. Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of the owners of the site.

People who doubt Danie Krügel's claims:

Ben Goldacre - British doctor and journalist, author of the The Guardian newspaper's weekly Bad Science column. Dr Goldacre's critique of the Observer's bad science jounalism regarding Krügel lead to them eventually having to publish an apology for misleading readers.


James Randi - Internationally acclaimed skeptic and challenger of pseudoscientific claims. Randi has mentioned Krügel at least once, and also indicated that Krügel is eligible for his foundation's $1 million prize if he can prove his claims in a controlled environment. So far, Krügel has declined.


Claus Larsen - Danish writer and editor of SkepticReport.com, an online magazine for skepticism and critical thinking, says:

Danie Krügel is just one of many people claiming to do wondrous things. If he can do what he claims, his technology could find thousands of missing people each year, sparing immense grief and anguish. If he can't do what he claims, he must stop taking advantage of the bereaved. Either way, Krügel has a tremendous responsibility he simply cannot ignore. And we won't, either.



http://www.stopdaniekrugel.com/2008/09/support-us.html

Whether this guy is genuin or not why are you shooting him down, if and I mean if he manages to get the PJ searching for Maddy again isnt that a good thing even if the guy is a nutter

buildersbum wrote:Whether this guy is genuin or not why are you shooting him down, if and I mean if he manages to get the PJ searching for Maddy again isnt that a good thing even if the guy is a nutter

The PJ won't be searching anything if it comes from a nutter or they wouldn't do anything else. You have no idea of how many nutters contact the Police...

buildersbum wrote:Whether this guy is genuin or not why are you shooting him down, if and I mean if he manages to get the PJ searching for Maddy again isnt that a good thing even if the guy is a nutter

Of course its a good thing if he knows what he's talking about but I think the PJ have wasted enough time and tax payers money with the McCanns.....and now we have some idiot with a machine that wont let anyone test the thing!

How do we know that Krugel hasn't got some inside info, doing someone else's dirty work for them, is it time for the body to be found!

buildersbum wrote:How do we know that Krugel hasn't got some inside info, doing someone else's dirty work for them, is it time for the body to be found!

Because he has been there before and found zilch. If the PJ were to listen to him (without more solid lead, of course, just his words) then they would also have to listen to thousands of psychics around the world who have contacted them. Without evidence they are all as good as each other. furthermore, if he is for real, then he should get his arse here and knock on the Portimão's PJ door and tell them were to look specifically. Maybe that way he would be taken a bit more seriously.

buildersbum wrote:How do we know that Krugel hasn't got some inside info, doing someone else's dirty work for them, is it time for the body to be found!

I sincerely wish that is the case but for now it still doesnt prove he's a successful psychic

Claudia79 wrote:

buildersbum wrote:How do we know that Krugel hasn't got some inside info, doing someone else's dirty work for them, is it time for the body to be found!

Because he has been there before and found zilch. If the PJ were to listen to him (without more solid lead, of course, just his words) then they would also have to listen to thousands of psychics around the world who have contacted them. Without evidence they are all as good as each other. furthermore, if he is for real, then he should get his arse here and knock on the Portimão's PJ door and tell them were to look specifically. Maybe that way he would be taken a bit more seriously.

You what what annoys me....is that they all seem to go to the press first!!!

Just get there and find her then boast about it for heavens sake....it's the same with all the sightings...

"We thought we saw her and decided to report it to the press 3 weeks later"

Ambersuz wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

buildersbum wrote:How do we know that Krugel hasn't got some inside info, doing someone else's dirty work for them, is it time for the body to be found!

Because he has been there before and found zilch. If the PJ were to listen to him (without more solid lead, of course, just his words) then they would also have to listen to thousands of psychics around the world who have contacted them. Without evidence they are all as good as each other. furthermore, if he is for real, then he should get his arse here and knock on the Portimão's PJ door and tell them were to look specifically. Maybe that way he would be taken a bit more seriously.

You what what annoys me....is that they all seem to go to the press first!!!

Just get there and find her then boast about it for heavens sake....it's the same with all the sightings...

"We thought we saw her and decided to report it to the press 3 weeks later"

Exactly!
if any of these charlatans were for real, they would just do it! Can you imagine what it would do for them? Can you imagine the publicity? Any of them would get rich! They're just a bunch of publicity seeking leeches.

Claudia they are all in it for the publicity....all of them!

I was just reading this thread about skeptics and this comment by John Jackson which makes a whole lot of sense :

One of the biggest wastes of resources would be if the police started opening up areas of inquiry on the 'information' of psychics. The reason I say this is because (despite what you may believe) psychics cannot actually do what they claim to do.

As skeptics we deal in facts. If the facts supported the idea that psychics were of any use in solving missing persons (or indeed any other) cases then we would be joining you in calling for their use. But the facts do not support psychics' claims.

That's a practical reason for opposing the use of psychics in these cases. Their input would be useless; and if followed, would lead to a waste of police time and resources and make a successful outcome less likely.

There's also the emotional damage they cause to families. See Kelly Jolkowski's blog.

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html

Ambersuz wrote:

buildersbum wrote:How do we know that Krugel hasn't got some inside info, doing someone else's dirty work for them, is it time for the body to be found!

I sincerely wish that is the case but for now it still doesnt prove he's a successful psychic

Yes that is a problem with all psychics they dont seem to want to do any of the physical part and go do some digging, then produce the goods.
I just think that in this case regarding Maddy the PJ have to go along with any information whether its from nutters or not, this case with Maddy is not the normal run of the mill case, imo.
By the way is Krugel passing himself off as a Psychic?

He's calling himself "The Locator" which basically means to me the same thing but what puzzles me is how did he make this machine.....and what gave him the idea it would work....

Meaning if it does then its one of a kind....someone offered to buy it for a Million and he refused cause they need to test the mechanisms

Ambersuz wrote:He's calling himself "The Locator" which basically means to me the same thing but what puzzles me is how did he make this machine.....and what gave him the idea it would work....

Meaning if it does then its one of a kind....someone offered to buy it for a Million and he refused cause they need to test the mechanisms

gerry mccann calls himself a loving father doesn,t mean he is

Quite right Big.....

Ambersuz wrote:Claudia they are all in it for the publicity....all of them!

I was just reading this thread about skeptics and this comment by John Jackson which makes a whole lot of sense :

One of the biggest wastes of resources would be if the police started opening up areas of inquiry on the 'information' of psychics. The reason I say this is because (despite what you may believe) psychics cannot actually do what they claim to do.

As skeptics we deal in facts. If the facts supported the idea that psychics were of any use in solving missing persons (or indeed any other) cases then we would be joining you in calling for their use. But the facts do not support psychics' claims.

That's a practical reason for opposing the use of psychics in these cases. Their input would be useless; and if followed, would lead to a waste of police time and resources and make a successful outcome less likely.

There's also the emotional damage they cause to families. See Kelly Jolkowski's blog.

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html

In www.cepticsa.com

The sceptics ...


Failing journalism

31/07/2007 08:45 - (SA)

George Claasen

If anyone had any doubt about the atrocious understanding the media have of science, last Sunday evening's broadcast of Carte Blanche should have removed that.

Ruda Landman's superficial and pseudoscientific, even laughable treatment, of the disappearance of the young girls of Pretoria and the East Rand in the eighties and early nineties and the suicide of Gert van Rooyen and Joey Haarhoff after the police cornered them on suspicion of the disappearances, must be the best example ever of how little very serious and senior journalists such as Landman understand science.

In the programme Landman lends her ears to an "inventor" Danie Krugel whose machine using principles of "quantum physics", leads the television team to an open piece of land near Van Rooyen's Capital Park home where it is suggested that the remains of the girls would be found.

Landman and producer George Mazarakis must please explain to the viewers of Carte Blanche where and how Krugel's machine was tested by independent scientists. Has anyone been allowed to independently, through double blind testing, experimentation and observation under controlled scientific circumstances, to verify the claims Krugel makes?

The phrase quantum physics is the most misused phrase by unscientific people to obscure their lack of knowledge about science and to mislead gullible scientifically illiterate people. Deepak Chopra, the so-called holistic writer, is the leading user of this phrase to explain virtually anything you do not understand.

Astonishing

But what really boggles the mind is that Landman had left her baloney detector totally at home when she presented this programme. She not only put her trust in Krugel's outrageous "quantum physics", but then totally destroys any credence of reliability by asking the psychic Marietta Theunissen to visit the scene where Landman and Krugel have been trying to prove beyond doubt that the remains of the girls would be found.

The abrakadabra Theunissen speaks at the scene is so funny one would have thought Landman and Mazarakis have ventured into a new field of comedy writing. That any serious journalist could make her viewers believe that Theunissen has any credibility, is astonishing.

Scientists have long ago exposed the psychics such as John Edward in the USA. My invitation to kykNET to allow Sceptic South Africa and the scientific community through James Randi's foundation to test Theunissen's claims that she could speak to the dead, has not been taken up.

Despite the fact that Randi has promised $1m to any pseudoscientific claimant if their claims could pass the independent double blind testing, experimentation and observation under controlled scientific circumstances.

We at Sceptic South Africa now challenge Krugel and Theunissen again, in the presence of the Carte Blanche and Die Ander Kant teams and Landman and Mazarakis, to allow independent scientists to undergo the Randi-tests.

Do some reading

Carte Blanche has sunk to a new low with this pseudoscientific baloney - and that under the name of serious investigative journalism.

Before Landman and Mazarakis venture into this kind of pseudoscientific journalism again, they should both read the physicist Robert Park's words in his brilliant analysis of the way pseudoscientists make a fool of reputable journalists, and specifically these words from his book Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud (Oxford University Press):

"That's the aim of science: to make the universe less strange, but only in the sense that it becomes more predictable. And in that sense, the universe is not nearly as strange as it used to be. The message the public should take away is that it is not the psychics and fortune-tellers who can see into the future, it is the scientists."

The evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins made an observation about this phenomenon in society where scientifically illiterate journalists regularly lead the gullible astray. In the 1998 Science and sensibility, Queen Elizabeth Lecture Hall Series: Sounding the century he said the following:

"Astrology books outsell astronomy. Television beats a path to the door of second rate conjurors masquerading as psychics and clairvoyants. Cult leaders mine the millennium and find rich seams of gullibility: Heaven's Gate, Waco, poison gas in the Tokyo underground. The biggest difference from the last millennium is that folk Christianity has been joined by folk science-fiction."

Extraordinary claims

Next time Landman, Mazarakis, and Theo Erasmus of kykNet consider making such farcical programmes, please remember the words of the late eminent scientist Carl Sagan who wrote in The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark that "extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence":

"But superstition and pseudoscience keep getting in the way, distracting us, providing easy answers, dodging sceptical scrutiny, casually pressing our awe buttons and cheapening the experience, making us routine and comfortable practitioners as well as victims of credulity."

Would Landman have taken notice of this before thousands of rands were spent on carting people around the country, asking real scientists to test the bones found at the site (without any success), and lending her ears to shysters such as Krugel and Theunissen?

Journalism in this developing country needs better quality than this knee-bending before superficiality and pseudoscientific thinking.

George Claassen is director of Sceptic South Africa (SSA) and former science editor of Die Burger.

Good read FSoares!

About Danny Krugel

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id304.html