Witness Statement Philip Allen

Process Volume VIII, Pages 1969 - 1974 (6 pages)

Witness statement of Philip Norman Allen 2007.07.11

Date of investigation: 2007/07/11 Time: 10:15 Location: DIC - Portimão

To the matter of the file he said:

--- Not knowing the Portuguese language either spoken or written form he was assisted in this act [interview] by the official interpreter of the Judicial Police/ADT, Carla Romana Fidalgo Esteves.
--- That he is a Detective Constable in the English Police, stationed in Thames Valley Police, but currently is detached to the Department of Criminal Investigation Support of the English police.
--- That he has been coming to Portugal for several years to spend holidays, usually to the area of Burgau - Luz - Lagos, having even purchased an apartment about 3 years ago in the area of Luz, which was only completed during this year. He states that the apartment in question is located in Vila Baia - Jardim da Luz - **************** - Praia da Luz - Lagos.
--- He advances that he began coming to Portugal for holidays in the company of his family, namely with his brother-in-law G***** T*****, he being certain that on one of his trips he stayed as a guest in the residential boarding house called "SALSALITO", whose owners are Ralph and Sally Eveleigh. With the passage of time and having stayed there several times he ended up establishing a relationship of friendship with the couple.
--- He states further and recalls that in mid-2005 he met their nephew, Robert Murat, with whom he has had several casual contacts, always at the boarding house, discussing the purchase of an apartment. He does not think that he had a relationship of friendship with Robert Murat, he being certain that the conversations he had with him at the time were circumstantial.
--- That he came to Portugal on 10 May 2007, to spend a week’s vacation in the company of his family, having the objective to occupy the apartment he had acquired, however, this did not happen for reasons beyond his will, specifically certain missing licenses allowing the property to be occupied. Accordingly, they had to take another apartment and part of the family ended up as guests in the Salsalito boarding house, that being the reason they had spent much time in those facilities [at that place].
--- When he came to Portugal he was already aware of the disappearance of the child Madeline McCann, as the matter was widely reported in the English press.
--- Some relatives were put up in the Salsalito boarding house, he being certain that he stayed in an apartment located in Praia da Luz, although and as said above they spent much time at the premises of the boarding house.
--- Taking into account the relationship of friendship he has with the owners of the Salsalito boarding house, Ralph and Sally Eveleigh, during the weekend of 12/13 May 2007, from hearing several conversations he perceived that Robert Murat had become a suspect in course of the investigation by Portuguese police in connection with the disappearance of Madeline McCann, however he did not know any concrete details about the situation.
--- He confirms that on May 14, 2007 he was certain about the situation of the suspect Robert Murat, given that his family, Sally and Ralph Eveleigh had a conversation with him. The content of this conversation was in essence that Sally and Ralph were fully convinced of the innocence of Robert Murat in respect of the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Effectively, the friends wanted some clarification on the legal and police procedures in such situations, but due to lack of evidence they had about the facts he had limited himself only to making a short comment on the way things were done in England.
--- Robert Murat's situation was much commented on [criticised] in the Salsalito boarding house, he recalling that there was a large movement of family friends who went to give support, but also a large influx of phone calls, so this subject was constantly being addressed in many different ways, but always on the side of the innocence of the identified man.
--- That on 16 May 2007, when at the Salsalito boarding house, he became aware that Robert Murat had come to the bar of the boarding house, perhaps at 14H00/15H00, he being certain that this occurred after he [RM] had left the premises of the Judicial Police, where he had been questioned for some time. That his [PA] friend, Sally, introduced him [PA] again to her relative Robert Murat, informing him [RM] that he [PA] was a police officer in England.
--- That he had had some conversations with Robert Murat, which were always in the presence of others, either because they found themselves in the same location, or because they spent time together, but always on the premises of the Salsalito boarding house. The content of these discussions was always the same, namely Robert Murat expressed his innocence regarding the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Regarding his observations of the behaviour of Robert Murat – expression, manner, physical gestures – he did not note any strange or suspicious behaviour or at least he never "disarmed" [dropped] his calm posture.
--- Robert Murat said that [in] his approach to the case before us - Madeline McCann – he had only intended to help find the child, due to his command of English and Portuguese.
--- That the talks he had with Robert Murat they never detailed any particular fact, namely about the McCanns, nor were any comments made about the police investigation that was taking place, because at that time the deponent had no knowledge of how it [the investigation] was going. He reaffirms that the talks relapsed into general issues, or on the procedures that are usually adopted in these situations, but nothing concrete, detailing only two situations that he realls, the first related to a message left on Robert Murat’s cell phone, supposedly from the Leicestershire Police, but was surprised given that he did not know the police author of the message, leaving in doubt if it was true or false, someone could be playing a game with the situation. Accordingly Robert Murat wanted to know how it would be possible to find out if the message in question was true or not, and whether the deponent was able to contact Leicestershire Police. After contacting Detective Constable IVOR it was determined that it was a confirmation relating to the testimony of a woman who allegedly travelled on the plane with Robert Murat when both moved to Portugal.
--- The second situation referred to a contact that Robert Murat had had with a female British citizen, who informed that after the disappearance of Medeline McCann had thought that the behaviour of a couple, with characteristics of "Hippies" was strange, and who lived in a villa close to the Praia da Luz, which seemed very expensive in terms of rental for those people. The outcome of this matter and the solicitation of Robert Murat resulted in him [PA] talking by phone with the lady referred to, who was identified as C******** M*** and was retired from the English Police, explaining again her suspicions, having advised her to address the Leicestershire Police again, so that the possible lead would not be lost.
--- That he returned to England on 18 May 2007, and is sure that up to his return Mr. Robert Murat was residing in Salsalito boarding house, that being the reason that he had more contact with him.
--- Confronted with the deposition that he gave to the Leicestershire Police on the matter at hand, concerning the paragraph which affirms that his position was uncomfortable, he explains that it had to do with the fact that this is a very serious and grave subject, it being that the way his friends Sally and Ralph were upset with what was happening to Robert Murat, and taking into account his position as a Police officer, but that in Portugal he had no possible way of helping [them], he felt very uncomfortable, however, he was never compromised in the sense of explaining how the police acted in these types of situations. He advances further that he considered the possibility of getting involved in this matter, even before he travelled to Portugal as it concerned an English child, however and after becoming aware of the way that the Portuguese police were handling the matter, he decided not to meddle [intervene; interfere] in the investigation.
--- He explains that whilst still in Portugal enjoying the holidays, he contacted his superior in order to inform him that he was living in the same area as suspect Robert Murat - Praia da Luz - and that the press were also there, given that in his work as an English Police Officer he has to preserve its image, and was promptly advised to not get involved in the situation.
--- When asked he replied that after having returned to England he does not recall having had [established] any contact with his friends Ralph and Sally Eveleigh, nor with Mr. Robert Murat. He states that some of his family returned again to Portugal and they had maintained normal contact with the above mentioned, but always with a casual nature and of friendship.
--- Asked if he ever spoke to Robert Murat about the possibility of locating mobile phones, he answered that he recalls a conversation that he [PA] had with him [RM], he does not know if the question was approached by Murat himself, or by a friend of his by the name of Tuck Price. The purpose of the conversation ended up being Murat’s interest in whether the police could locate his phone, and if this had occurred would it have proved his non-involvement in the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Moreover, he remembers that the interest relapsed into the possibility of a location being detailed, that is, almost the exact location. He states that he responded that this was possible, that it could be located in a very precise area, but emphasised that it was the phone that was located and therefore the user could not be determined. From what he remembers this conversation occurred in the Salsalito boarding house and in the presence of other people, and associates this conversation with the bar.
--- Moreover, he states that these matters relating to the location of mobile phones are an information that is generally known in England, given that during trials there is great emphasis on this evidence, so this type of information is of common knowledge. He affirms with certainty that this conversation took place after the 14 May, 2007, i.e. after Robert Murat was a suspect in the investigations arising from the disappearance of Madeline McCann.
--- He adds that the tenor of the question now before us seemed as a genuine intention of Robert Murat wanting to prove his innocence and not as a way to collect information on police procedure. As stated this information is widely known in England, and he thinks that his explanation did not break any confidentiality or professional secrecy.
--- That he will not have had any further conversation with Robert Murat that was so specific, indicating that he made a great effort not to do so, since the goal of every citizen and of the police in particular, is trying to discover Madeline McCann’s whereabouts, and as directed by his superior decided not to do so [not to converse further].
--- Confronted with the content of the conversation that he conducted on the telephone with Robert Murat on May 15, 2007, between 15H15 and 15H27 as "Statement of Hearing and Transcript of telephone interceptions" in the case pages 1683 onwards, he replied that he recalls this conversation now, but honestly had the idea of a bar environment, because this conversation may actually have occurred on the phone installed there. He confirms the content of the conversation and that it follows the state of anxiety and anguish in which his friend Sally Eveleigh found herself. It follows in the same sense as above, i.e. as in the location "to the meter" of a cell phone. He explains further that at this time he cannot state exactly if there were two conversations, in other words, one personally with Robert Murat himself and one that took place on the telephone, however, does not exclude the possibility of both having occurred.
--- He wants to make it very clear [be explicit] that the content of the conversations he had with Robert Murat, had the objective of proving his innocence and he is certain that the information he provided is well known, not believing [to be] serious what he explained to the people, stating that what he had said could be explained by any lawyer.
--- He states further that in giving the testimony to the English Police he had completely forgotten this conversation, because he had not thought it important, taking into account its content.
--- Asked if hae had spoken with anyone about the content(s) of the(se) talk(s), he replied that he had not.
--- When asked he states that he does not recall any other detail of interest to this investigation.

No more was said. Read through, ratified and will sign together with the interpreter who witnessed the act.

Signed in the presence of myself who took the testimony.

Posted by nicked on 3A

This is a transcript of a call recorded on 15th May 07 between ****, a British Police Officer, and Robert Murat.

**** calls him at home to discuss his concerns over his phone, ironically enough.

The breaks between the text are page breaks and the translation provided is google Im afraid.

The original call was conducted in English but the original version is not in the file, only the PJ translated copy.

Hello, Robert, yes .. .
Rob - How are you? Okay?
**** - Yes, I am well, call me ****, how are you?
Rob - Hello, ****!
**** - I'm fine, AHM .. . now I am at home of Sally.
Rob - Yes
**** - But all, the whole family is here, so .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - I am a police officer in the United Kingdom.
Rob - Yes
**** - AHM .. . Sally spoke to me about your phone h.. .
Rob-signal, just, just to be informed, they told me they could follow
the signal of my mobile phone.
**** - Yes
Rob - AHM .. .
**** - (inaudible) also.
Rob - What, sorry?
**** - They can do it (inaudible) respectively.
Rob - What, what do you mean? Sorry.
**** - There is, there is something called analysis of demand for cell.
Rob - Yeah. I can, I can point out that, sorry?
**** - Yes, of course, yes.
Rob - Analysis of demand for cell, okay.
**** - Okay, what, in practice what it says is that the police could ask the
Your mobile telephone .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - whatever it may be .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - AHM ... the complete history of where your phone was, the
calls that were made, either for entry or exit from .. .
Rob - Yeah.
**** - E.. . but perhaps most important to you, where you can even show
I was or might, can, can, can get the signal from where the
his phone was, this, this, I have to say, is not .. .
Rob - Where was.
**** - yeah, yeah, it shows, not shows where you went.
Rob - Yes
**** - Just shows where your phone was, but ...
Rob - OK, but AHM .. . may ultimately help.
**** - No doubts

Rob - And Others. . the mere fact that probably already heard it a million
times, I am completely innocent, is simple, I have ... you know, not
ronsigo believe that this is happening, AHM .. . and the simple fact is, I am
try to find ways to prove where you were.
**** - Yes
Rob - So, after all.
**** - Yes
Rob - This is a way of trying to do it, knew it was not possible.
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - AHM .. . and why .. . you know, was wondering if, if, if this had been done,
ultimately, because eventually, I do not know, I, myself, I was here in
: wing, but which can have? How much area is giving?
**** - Well, it really depends on the number of satellites, where it is.
Rob - Yeah.
**** - usually about the phones pick up anything between three
2 seven satellites.
Rob - Three to seven .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - Three to seven satellites .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - Ok.
**** - And AHM ... so, that means ... if, if ... say, three,
can put it on about a hundred, a hundred yards (2.74 meters) or so.
Rob - So, about a hundred yaruk.
**** - Yes, some one hundred yards or so, yes.
Rob - Or well, okay.
**** - AHM .. . the more the more satellites there, more .. .
Rob - Nearest .. .
**** - Nearest may give a certain location.
Rob - Yeah, okay, okay, this is absolutely .. .
**** - Yes. .
Rob - Fantastic, but if, for example if I go with them, with
: sses satellites, with these phones .. .
**** - Yes. .
Rob - They went to together with me?
**** - Yes, yes.
Rob - Oh, great, great.
**** --
Some of these phone calls, these phones.
**** - Ah ...
Rob - I need to call my carrier, anyway.
**** - Yes
Rob - And whether we did that night a phone call with this phone.
**** - Well, they have the history of your calls, ahrn .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - What, what .. .
Rob - Well, they are actually in fact they have my phone this
moment, so .. .
**** - (inaudible)
Rob - Yeah, so they have my phone, my computers and
everything.
****-Hm ...
Rob - But after all, have nothing to hide, whatever.
**** - You used the computer that night?
Rob - I think not, I am not sure, I do not remember, to be honest.
**** - Because once again they can search o. .. the history of
computer, so if .. .
Rob - Yeah.
**** - If you had used the suapassword.
Rob-O that once again, once more, I gave them everything, so they have
everything .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - But ultimately I have nothing to hide, whatever.
**** - Hm ...
Rob-I did nothing, I am being crucified.
**** - Yes
Rob - My whole life is being crucified.
**** - Yes
Rob - E.. . my whole family has been crucified, AHM .. . although
saying that the police of Leista has been absolutely fantastic with my
family, have helped it, even, even.
**** - Yes
Rob - Until someone asked the media to thank the police for
Leista for all the work they have done and looked for families.
**** - Hm, hm .. .
Rob - And so, I hope they do, can not come from me, but asked, I asked them
to see that part, you know?
**** - Yes,% C

Rob-If you can think of in any other prospects that, that
can .. .
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - Ahrn ... from a technological standpoint, that may put me or
situate me in a place, or something .. .
**** - Hrn ...
Rob - Please tell me, because I am trying to add a few things to
see, to prove what I was doing.
****-Hm ...
Rob - I, as I said, I DES, I am desperate, after all, right?
You know, put me in a kind trap malignant, when did
absolutely nothing.
****-Hm ...
Rob - When I tried to help.
**** - Yes
Rob - AHM ... and is all right ... is all right ... I must say that you are very frightened,
when they start, they start to add things and ahrn .. . i know
who did nothing.
**** Unfortunately, the press, well, the impression I have is that the press
here .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - You must bear up relatively well because of sub judice.
Rob - Yes
**** - But it is clear that with (inaudible) national do not call into question,
but the (inaudible) because now there is an international press,
you can see the Sky TV, gave the world .. .
Rob - Yeah, right.
**** - And that kind of stuff, so I did not .. . I am very .. . I am not
Portuguese familiar with the work.
Rob - Yes
**** - And AHM .. . what I saw until now (inaudible).
Rob - Okay, okay (laughter).
**** - Yes. .
Rob - Well, I mean, I, I have translated (inaudible) during the
recent days.
****-Hm ...
Rob - And the work they are doing there is absolutely, even to go
details, really good, following all clues, anything to that effect,
ahrn .. . and they,
Rob - Why are pointing to me, AHM .. . I have to be really honest,
they were, they did a very good job, and, you know, concerned about it .. .
****-Hm ...
Rob - They worked it even harder, in that sense, but .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - really should not praise the people who are here trying to
crucify me.
**** - Well, yes, it is always a thing, from my point of view .. .
Rob - I think it seems very, very (inaudible).
Rob - Well, you know, these, these things happen, and sometimes AHM .. . could .. .
If you look at the statistics .. .
Rob - Yeah ...
**** - Usually people are known to the family or (inaudible)
walk around, and of course we want to communicate this kind of thing that
happening (inaudible).
Rob - Yeah, exactly, exactly.
**** - Ahrn .. .
Rob - The other thing to me is very worrying is that they, they are
leaving behind what is important, and this is the girl at the end of the day. A
my life is important, do not misunderstand me (laughter).
**** - Hm .. . yes.
Rob - My life is important, I do not want to be crucified, and e. .. you know,
crucified and be completely innocent.
****-Hm ...
Rob - Ah rn ... and I have been crucified, but they have, I hope that they
keep focused on that, in what is important and we find the
idiotic to have this girl.
**** - Hm ...
Rob - But now I think I am, it seems, therefore AHM .. .
this is what I do, I wanted to do.
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - What with, which continue to focus on that aspect. AHM .. .
Okay, well, thank you for your help, thank you very, very

****-Hm ...
Rob - I was helping the mother to each coisitas do, I think she came to
box around the eight AHM .. . and I was .. . I think I got here first,
I am sure, I am almost sure that I got here first. I do not
I remember exactly, that's the problem, I think I came here
first and put me with her when she came here, and AHM .. . basically
I was here all night to talk and laugh and this, this, we heard some sirens to
pass and I said oh, that sounds like (inaudible) (laughter).
****-Hm ...
Rob - With the sirens going on AHM ... and then we heard earlier, when the
my sister called the seven in the morning AHM ... said one girl had
disappeared, well, was my mother who knew, I was still in bed,
agreements between the kitchen and it was when my mother told me.
**** - Hm ...
Rob - What a girl had disappeared and everything started from there, is a
Hell, it is a hell.
****-Hm ...
Rob - But now I, me, me .. . what I do now is I call my sister,
it is providing testimony in the police to Leista.
****-Hm ...
Rob - AHM .. . and I .. . I ask you to ask them if they can, if they
legal authority to do this thing the phone.
**** - You AHM .. . a telephone English?
Rob - I got a phone English and Portuguese another phone, hang with
two.
**** - Okay.
Rob - That is why I am trying to get the perspective of the phone English.
**** - Yes, but they can do the same with the Portuguese telephone.
Rob - Yeah, but I do not know if they have permission to do so, that is, the
problem is this.
****-AHM ...
Rob - Or they may ask this, or anything the
Rob - E. .. I mean AHM ... the end of the day, I know where I was, is
Simple.
**** - Yes
Rob - and is not elsewhere, if you ask me (laughter).
**** - Yes If .. . the same, the same applies to phone, if done, was done
a call from the phone, you can get, you can get .. .
Rob - The signal .. .
**** - Well, they do not detect the signal, they can get the calls
and made the calls received .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - If someone was telephoned at home and then .. .
Rob - I think, I think .. . I do not recall what time it was, but I think the call
my daughter, ahrn .. . despite not having spoken with her, left a message
No answering machine .. .
**** - Ahrn .. .
Rob - I think we were not there.
Rob - But I do not recall exactly what time it was.
**** - Yes
Rob - AHM .. . So, I hope, which has been around that time.
****-Hm ...
Rob - So, I hope it will be by phone, either by phone from home .. .
**** - Hm ...
Rob - I hope this puts me in a completely different place, good
at the place where I, I know I was.
**** - Yes, yes.
Rob - (inaudible).
**** - Yes
Rob - So this is what I am trying to do now.
**** - Between, between those two things, between the two mobile phone
and fixed, and if the computer was doing some e-mails or not ...
Rob - Yes
**** - All these things can do, can .. .
Rob - the place.
**** - can detect the location where you were (inaudible).
Rob - Other, another, another thing, we have a .. . a router that has been placed
by a private company that came here and put the router is a router
(inaudible), yes?
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - AHM ..
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - AHM .. . and the guy said .. . I do not know what this means, but he said
that was planned for the time American urn or something, there is some
specific reason, it would be a problem, or .. .
**** - AHM .. . good, I can analyze it, frankly I think not, but .. .
Rob - Well, when we were talking about this, he said it seemed strange .. .
**** - Yes

Rob - It was strange (inaudible)
**** - Yes
Rob - On the sound of that. Ok!
**** - (inaudible) them, they are technical in any way identified
it soon, yes.
Rob - Okay, sir, thank you very, very much for your help.
**** - (inaudible).
Rob - Thank you very, very much.
**** - All right, mate, stay well.
Rob - Stay well.
**** - Bye.
Rob - Bye, bye.