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POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

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POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Guest on Mon 7 Feb - 1:02

POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

MOTHER who left her son of 14 to mind his three-year-old brother while she went to the shops was given a police caution for “cruelty” and was suspended from work.
Last night the case ignited a debate over when it is acceptable for parents to briefly leave older siblings home alone as carers.
Police found that the un-named healthcare assistant left the brothers alone together for just 30 minutes.

Although there was no “incident” and they were not believed to be in danger, the mother was cautioned by officers for “committing an act of cruelty on a child or young person.”
She has also remained suspended from her job in the Thames Valley since September 2009 because the caution is revealed under Criminal Records Bureau checks.
The woman, in her mid-40s, who is fighting for a law change and reinstatement, claims the system makes her “unemployable”. As well as being unable to pass a CRB check, the caution automatically bars her from working with children for 10 years.
This was despite her being taken off the barred list by the Independent Safeguarding Authority after a year-long social services probe produced a “glowing” report which confirmed her children were healthy and well looked after.
UK law fails to spell out when teenagers can look after their younger brothers and sisters but police can prosecute parents if they feel their actions put children at risk.
The NSPCC advises that no child under 14 should be left home alone and no child under 16 should care for someone younger than themselves.
Siobhan Freegard, co-founder of Netmums and a mother-of-three, said: “Parents are left to rely on their own judgment but sometimes they will make the wrong call.”

Consultant psychologist David Spellman, who works with children, said: “Fourteen-year-olds are very different from one another.
Kids who probably shouldn’t be left alone are, but that doesn’t necessarily constitute neglect.” The crime reduction charity NACRO said that it was “outrageous” the healthcare assistant remained unable to work.
Spokesman Tim Linehan said: “It demonstrates the double jeopardy of the system where someone has been removed from the barred list but a caution continues to come up on a CRB check and they risk losing a job as a result.
“One of the problems with cautions is that people don’t realise they are recorded as an offence and they go on a person’s record, which can be discovered when a CRB check is carried out.
“An employer who sees that someone has a caution may then exclude them from employment.”
In November two nurses who were barred from working with youngsters for leaving their own children unattended, had the bans overturned.
One had been barred for leaving an 11-year-old at home while she went to the shops.
The other, a male nurse, was cautioned after his wife briefly left their children alone without his knowledge.
Both are now suing the Government for damages.
A source close to the healthcare assistant, who is married, said: “She feels she is dedicated to her family but because of this the system has effectively ended her career and made her unemployable.”
'INTELLIGENCE AND MATURITY OF THE CHILD IS KEY'
PARENTS last night said there needed to be clearer guidelines over leaving children.
Charity officer Janet Cropper, 49, from Windermere, Cumbria, said she regularly left daughter Naomi, 16, home alone for brief spells from the age of 10.
She added: “I believe people need firmer guidelines. Naomi got to an age where she didn’t want to go to a childminder after school any more and she was very mature.”
Mother-of-three Vivienne Smith, 60, from Sale, near Manchester, said she left her son Paul, then 14, in charge of his five-year-old sister Zoe when they were growing up. She said: “Paul would arrive home from secondary school on his bike and Zoe would be brought home from primary school by another parent – a close friend.
“He would look after her for about an hour and make her tea until I returned from work. I didn’t think twice as he was a very responsible lad.
“There were never any problems and I didn’t feel I was letting anyone down.
“I think it boils down to the age of the children and the teenager’s intelligence and maturity.”

Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/227553/Police-caution-mum-for-leaving-son-14-to-mind-three-year-old-brotherPolice-caution-mum-for-leaving-son-14-to-mind-three-year-old-brother#ixzz1DELjTZlQ

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  jinvta on Mon 7 Feb - 2:03

If I were this woman I would be demanding to know if the McCanns were placed on this barred list, and if not, why not.

Surely leaving two toddlers with a three-year-old is worse than leaving a three-year-old with a 14-year-old.

Who is it that gets to determine that the children were at risk?

I hate ambiguous laws like this.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Guest on Mon 7 Feb - 4:34

what what what???? thats absolutely ridiculous. i used to babysit the neighbours kids when i was 15 (for whole evenings) and nothing very terrible happened! i hope this lady wins her case and gets damages!

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 7 Feb - 7:54

My daughter used to babysit regularly to augment her pocket money when she was 14.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  buildersbum on Mon 7 Feb - 9:51

"Healthcare Assistant" oh dear if she had been a Doctor she would have been OK wouldn't she Mr Gordon Brown!!!!!!

Imo she must have felt that her 14 year old son was capable, I know with my son I could have trusted him at 14 he was very mature and sensible he always has been, 14 isn't a child is it, then again some of his pals act like babies for their years and still do.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  malena stool on Mon 7 Feb - 10:11

What surprises me, although I know it shouldn't is the legal representatives of people such as this lady do not respond to the charges and sentences by quoting and comparing their clients actions with the heinous and abhorrently criminal actions of the McCanns who as we all know remain uncharged, free and could even have profited by their own particular form of being, "well within the bounds of responsible parenting."

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  tanszi on Mon 7 Feb - 10:49

incredible ludicrous and totally unhelpful. Someone somewhere please explain why a woman who takes the care to ensure that her younger child is looked after by her elder child aged 14 is branded in this way. She felt her eldest child was capable and she was gone for a relatively short time. The McCanns leave their three children under the age of 4, allegedly alone in an un locked apartment in a foreign country where the chidren dont speak the language and they tell us they operated within the bounds of reasonable parenting, whilst out on the lash with friends. There is something badly wrong here, the woman concerned was obviously not a doctor and unable to call in some favours, or launch a fund, someone tell me why Mr G McCann is allowed to continue as a doctor and not have a similar barr placed on him. jimo.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  fred on Mon 7 Feb - 11:06

Silly woman, should have taken the 14 year old with her and left the younger ones alone, they could have had a lash at the local Tapas bar, before letting her son have sex with the pub quiz mistress, then lost one of the children. Honestly some people have no idea of how to behave, she could have been on Phillip Greens private jet by now, and have a million quid in the bank.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  zodiac on Mon 7 Feb - 11:29

malena stool wrote:What surprises me, although I know it shouldn't is the legal representatives of people such as this lady do not respond to the charges and sentences by quoting and comparing their clients actions with the heinous and abhorrently criminal actions of the McCanns who as we all know remain uncharged, free and could even have profited by their own particular form of being, "well within the bounds of responsible parenting."

The McCanns should be asked by the press/media who it was that told them their actions were "well within the bounds of responsible parenting." Did someone in authority tell them that? If so. Why? That person or people should be explaining in full to the public, especially to people such as the woman in the OP article. The woman in the OP article imo deserves to know why her career has been destroyed for leaving her 14-year-old son to watch his 3-year-old sibling for 30 mins whilst the McCanns who left their 3-year-old child with her 2-year-old siblings night after night are told their actions were "well within the bounds of responsible parenting." Especially given the fact that the 3-year-old mysteriously disappeared whilst being left in such circumstances. Hmm I wonder if it is their own opinion passed off as fact. Just like MBM is missing therefore she has been abducted. In the cringeworthy McViewing video below @ 6.55 secs they are asked:

What evidence do you have that there was an abduction?

The reply is [i]where i....where i....where i where is the child? We're looking for that evidence. Where is the child? What other explanation can explain how she is not here.[/i]

This is another explanation imo:

“Eddie” marked (signalled) cadaver odour and the dog “Keela” detected residues of human blood.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/lisbon-appeals-court-ruling.html




This imo is the reason the McCanns allowed archival and to this day do not request reopening, even though they hold the key to the investigation being reopened and real police investigating their missing child's case:

We thus reach a point where it seems to be important to stress the following: the indicative facts that led to the applicants’ constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not valued by the Public Ministry’s Magistrates in order to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen through another prism and with another base, may lead to a different conclusion from that which was attained by those same Magistrates – those are indications that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/lisbon-appeals-court-ruling.html



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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  docmac on Mon 7 Feb - 12:48

No job. No salary. No access to a fund. For doing absolutely nothing wrong. It's disgraceful.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  POPPY1 on Mon 7 Feb - 13:09

JUST WATCHED THAT INTERVIEW AGAIN WITH THE MCCFUKKERS .

Just 'COME ON DOWN' KM and GM and give us your evidence..........................

Of course you have one major difficulty there, there is 'NAE EVIDENCE' of an abduction.

I think GM needs anger management lessons , Duarte has gone bananas and KM has the unfortunate nervous habit of licking her lips. Do I detect a sign of anxiety or two. Ahh..............



Last edited by POPPY1 on Mon 7 Feb - 14:52; edited 1 time in total

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  zodiac on Mon 7 Feb - 13:37

POPPY1 wrote:JUST WATCHED THAT INTERVIEW AGAIN WITH THE MCCFUKKERS .

Just 'COME ON DOWN' KM and GM and give us your evidence..........................

Of course you have one major difficulty there, there is 'NAE EVIDENCE' of an abduction.

I think GM needs anger management lessons , Duarte has gone bananas and KM has the unfortunate nervous habit of licking her lips. Do I detect a sign of anxiety or too. Ahh..............



Mr McCann told reporters: "I'd like to remind everyone that it's the book that's on trial and not Kate and I.

"Over the last two days you've heard a lot about Mr Amaral's thesis. There is absolutely no evidence to support that thesis. A thesis without evidence is meaningless."


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Gerry-McCann-Hits-Out-At-Book-Claiming-Madeleine-Is-Dead/Article/201001215520802

What evidence is it the McCs have to support their assumption of abduction? Hmm iirc they have nothing therefore their assumption of abduction is err..em..yer know meaningless! Whereäs Dr Amaral based his book on the investigation.


Roll on their book!




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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Claudia79 on Mon 7 Feb - 13:59

How pathetic. When I was 13 and wasn't at school I took care of my aunt (who was dying with cancer) when my mum had to go out for a bit to do other things. It made me grow up, it made me more responsible, it made me learn that family is everything and it taught me compassion.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  jeanie on Mon 7 Feb - 16:31

hope link works....some of you may have read this already

https://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/the-mccanns-committed-an-act-of-cruelty-on-their-children-according-to-uk-police/

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Guest on Mon 7 Feb - 16:35

Claudia79 wrote:How pathetic. When I was 13 and wasn't at school I took care of my aunt (who was dying with cancer) when my mum had to go out for a bit to do other things. It made me grow up, it made me more responsible, it made me learn that family is everything and it taught me compassion.

well, wifey leaves me home alone when she goes shopping. been doing it for years. never did me no harm.


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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Colonel Fabien on Mon 7 Feb - 16:54

AnnaEsse wrote:My daughter used to babysit regularly to augment her pocket money when she was 14.

I used to babysit for the neighbours when I was about 14. It was considered normal.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Annabel on Mon 7 Feb - 17:16

Thanks Jeanie for this excellent article

From the link from Jeanie

https://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/the-mccanns-committed-an-act-of-cruelty-on-their-children-according-to-uk-police/

The McCanns committed “an act of cruelty” on their children according to UK police.


A MOTHER who left her son of 14 to mind his three-year-old brother while she went to the shops was given a police caution for “cruelty” and was suspended from work – The McCanns left all three of their children, the eldest being just three, home alone in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country for six nights in a row whilst they wined and dined with their pals.

Last night the case ignited a debate over when it is acceptable for parents to briefly leave older siblings home alone as carers – This is an issue that The Madeleine Foundation lobbied government on back in 2007. Requests for a determinate age of when it is safe to leave children home alone to be incorporated in to current legislation were rejected.

Police found that the un-named healthcare assistant left the brothers alone together for just 30 minutes. – According to a statement given by Mrs. Fenn, who resides above the apartment the McCanns holidayed in during 2007, the McCann children were home alone for a least 75 minutes one night of the holiday. Mrs. Fenn noted the time as one of the children, she presumed it to be Madeleine, sobbed for their daddy throughout that time.

Although there was no “incident” and they were not believed to be in danger, the mother was cautioned by officers for “committing an act of cruelty on a child or young person.” – It is a fact that an incident occured during the week the McCanns repeatedly left their three young children home alone. According to the McCanns their daughter was abducted. According to detectives investigating the case, Madeleine died in the apartment, possibly as a result of a sedative overdose or accident in her parents absence.

She has also remained suspended from her job in the Thames Valley since September 2009 because the caution is revealed under Criminal Records Bureau checks. – Gerry McCann was given compassionate leave following Madeleine’s disappearance, he returned to employment six months after Madeleine’s disappearance. He continues to work full time for the NHS as a consultant cardiologist at Glenfield Hospital, Leicester.

The woman, in her mid-40s, who is fighting for a law change and reinstatement, claims the system makes her “unemployable”. As well as being unable to pass a CRB check, the caution automatically bars her from working with children for 10 years.

This was despite her being taken off the barred list by the Independent Safeguarding Authority after a year-long social services probe produced a “glowing” report which confirmed her children were healthy and well looked after.

UK law fails to spell out when teenagers can look after their younger brothers and sisters but police can prosecute parents if they feel their actions put children at risk. – As stated earlier, The Madeleine Foundation lobbied the government regarding this matter back in 2007. Government stated that a determinate age written into legislation was not required.

The NSPCC advises that no child under 14 should be left home alone and no child under 16 should care for someone younger than themselves. – The McCanns left their three children, all under the age of four, home alone in an unlocked apartment for six nights in a row whilst they wined and dined with their pals. According to police investigation files, the three children were left for a least 75 minutes in an unlocked apartment for one evening of the holiday. Madeleine was in a distressed during that period. The McCanns confirmed that on the day of Madeliene’s disappearance she had asked them why they had not come when she and her sibling had been crying the night before; Kate McCann shrugged the comment off as a passing remark.

Siobhan Freegard, co-founder of Netmums and a mother-of-three, said: “Parents are left to rely on their own judgment but sometimes they will make the wrong call.” – Did the McCanns make the wrong call?

Consultant psychologist David Spellman, who works with children, said: “Fourteen-year-olds are very different from one another. – What would his thoughts be on three year olds?

Kids who probably shouldn’t be left alone are, but that doesn’t necessarily constitute neglect.” The crime reduction charity NACRO said that it was “outrageous” the healthcare assistant remained unable to work. – It is “outrageous” that the McCanns have not been charged with neglect.

Spokesman Tim Linehan said: “It demonstrates the double jeopardy of the system where someone has been removed from the barred list but a caution continues to come up on a CRB check and they risk losing a job as a result.

“One of the problems with cautions is that people don’t realise they are recorded as an offence and they go on a person’s record, which can be discovered when a CRB check is carried out.

“An employer who sees that someone has a caution may then exclude them from employment.”

In November two nurses who were barred from working with youngsters for leaving their own children unattended, had the bans overturned.

One had been barred for leaving an 11-year-old at home while she went to the shops. – The McCanns children were all under four.

The other, a male nurse, was cautioned after his wife briefly left their children alone without his knowledge. – The McCanns made a joint decision to leave their three children without adult supervison.

Both are now suing the Government for damages. – The McCanns have/are attempting to sue a number of people, those who challenged their account of abduction.

A source close to the healthcare assistant, who is married, said: “She feels she is dedicated to her family but because of this the system has effectively ended her career and made her unemployable.”

‘INTELLIGENCE AND MATURITY OF THE CHILD IS KEY’

PARENTS last night said there needed to be clearer guidelines over leaving children. – Absolutely

Charity officer Janet Cropper, 49, from Windermere, Cumbria, said she regularly left daughter Naomi, 16, home alone for brief spells from the age of 10.

She added: “I believe people need firmer guidelines. Naomi got to an age where she didn’t want to go to a childminder after school any more and she was very mature.”

Mother-of-three Vivienne Smith, 60, from Sale, near Manchester, said she left her son Paul, then 14, in charge of his five-year-old sister Zoe when they were growing up. She said: “Paul would arrive home from secondary school on his bike and Zoe would be brought home from primary school by another parent – a close friend.

“He would look after her for about an hour and make her tea until I returned from work. I didn’t think twice as he was a very responsible lad.

“There were never any problems and I didn’t feel I was letting anyone down.

“I think it boils down to the age of the children and the teenager’s intelligence and maturity.”
Is a child under the age of four mature enough to be left without adult supervision for at least 75 minutes in a darkened unlocked apartment situated next to a swimming in a foreign environment? According to the McCanns spokesman, leaving children in this manner is something all Brits do!




Last edited by Annabel on Mon 7 Feb - 19:06; edited 3 times in total

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  wjk on Mon 7 Feb - 17:35

Excellent article jeanie, thank you.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  docmac on Mon 7 Feb - 18:01

wjk wrote:Excellent article jeanie, thank you.
Yeah, and you should see the comments under one of the other recent articles on that blog!!!

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  wjk on Mon 7 Feb - 18:24

docmac wrote:
wjk wrote:Excellent article jeanie, thank you.
Yeah, and you should see the comments under one of the other recent articles on that blog!!!
Which article doc?

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  docmac on Mon 7 Feb - 18:26

wjk wrote:
docmac wrote:
wjk wrote:Excellent article jeanie, thank you.
Yeah, and you should see the comments under one of the other recent articles on that blog!!!
Which article doc?
I shall post a new thread, and will give thanks to the poster who alerted me to it only with their express permission.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  wjk on Mon 7 Feb - 18:43

docmac wrote:
wjk wrote:
docmac wrote:
wjk wrote:Excellent article jeanie, thank you.
Yeah, and you should see the comments under one of the other recent articles on that blog!!!
Which article doc?
I shall post a new thread, and will give thanks to the poster who alerted me to it only with their express permission.
Ok doc.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Claudia79 on Mon 7 Feb - 19:48

Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:How pathetic. When I was 13 and wasn't at school I took care of my aunt (who was dying with cancer) when my mum had to go out for a bit to do other things. It made me grow up, it made me more responsible, it made me learn that family is everything and it taught me compassion.

well, wifey leaves me home alone when she goes shopping. been doing it for years. never did me no harm.


She trusts you too much. I'd be scared.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Dimsie on Mon 7 Feb - 19:55

fred wrote:Silly woman, should have taken the 14 year old with her and left the younger ones alone, they could have had a lash at the local Tapas bar, before letting her son have sex with the pub quiz mistress, then lost one of the children. Honestly some people have no idea of how to behave, she could have been on Phillip Greens private jet by now, and have a million quid in the bank.
All very true, Fred - this silly woman forgot to 'do a McCann', so she deserves all she gets. How dare she leave a 14-year-old at home to cramp the style of the 3-year-old? Mad, undoubtedly.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

Post  Guest on Mon 7 Feb - 19:56

Claudia79 wrote:
Marky wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:How pathetic. When I was 13 and wasn't at school I took care of my aunt (who was dying with cancer) when my mum had to go out for a bit to do other things. It made me grow up, it made me more responsible, it made me learn that family is everything and it taught me compassion.

well, wifey leaves me home alone when she goes shopping. been doing it for years. never did me no harm.


She trusts you too much. I'd be scared.

women, easily fooled.

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Re: POLICE CAUTION MUM FOR LEAVING SON, 14, TO MIND THREE-YEAR-OLD BROTHER

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