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so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

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so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  Guest on Sat 26 Feb - 10:32

Pervert who groomed 14-year-old girl for sex avoids prison after judge says 'you're not a real paedophile'
By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 6:21 PM on 25th February 2011

A judge has been criticised for failing to jail a pervert who groomed a 14-year-old girl for sex after ruling he was being 'simply a young man'.

Turon Ali, 26, groomed the schoolgirl by sending her explicit text messages and then arranged a secret meeting where he planned to abuse her.

He was only prevented from sexually assaulting the girl when her older brother found one of the texts and alerted police.

But Ali avoided jail at Cambridge Crown Court with a 12-month suspended sentence after a top judge ruled he was 'not a paedophile as such'.

Judge Gareth Hawkesworth said: 'You thought she was ''easy' meat''. You were thrust into a moral vacuum without a single care of what you might be doing.

'You are not a paedophile as such. You are simply a young man who was unable to control his sexual urges.'
Children's charity campaigners yesterday slammed the lenient sentence and Claude Knights, director of Kidscape, described Ali's crime as 'very serious'.

She said: 'We have to ask what is meant by the phrase, 'not a paedophile as such'. Sexual offenders do not adhere to a stereotype.

'We know that they come from all classes, professions, racial and religious backgrounds.

'Grooming a minor with the clear intention of engaging in sexual activity with her is a very serious crime, and needs to be recognised as such.

'This young girl's brother saved her from a terrible experience, and he should be commended for his actions.

'Society needs to be protected from adults who target vulnerable children, and the sentencing of predators needs to reflect the severity of their crime.

'I'm not sure the sentence is enough and if he had been jailed then the message would have been stronger.'
'Ali groomed the girl, who cannot be named for legal reasons, with sick texts and hatched a plan to meet her at the historic Ely Cathedral, Cambridgeshire.

But her brother intervened and called police when he discovered the texts and Ali was sentenced for arranging or facilitating the commission of a child sex offence at Cambridge Crown Court on February 18.

Ali was made subject of a sexual prevention order banning him from unsupervised contact with under-16s for a period of five years and ordered to pay £500 costs.

Judge Hawkesworth ruled: 'If you could you were going to meet her and if you could you would have engaged in some kind of sexual activity with her.

'It then became clear that she was sexually compliant and when you became aware of this lust took over.

'You approached her on the basis that she was a member of the opposite sex and you would have your way with her if you could.'

Judge Hawkesworth came under fire in September 2008 when he refused to jail a Cambridge University academic convicted of downloading sick child porn.

Nicholas Hammond, then 45, a specialist in modern French at Gonville and Caius College, was given a 12 month suspended sentence.

He was caught with more than 1,000 sick images of children on his computer including vile images of babies aged just 16-months old. Judge Hawkesworth said: 'The greater public interest, in my judgement, requires me not only to punish but to provide you with an opportunity to rehabilitate yourself.

'You are a sorely damaged individual who needs support and help.'

Judge Hawkesworth also refused to jail child sex offender Jonathan Jenkins, then 21, after claiming his 'studies would be ruined' if he was put behind bars.

The former Cambridge University student was caught with 293 child porn images on his computer including four photos of girls aged between nine and 15-years-old which were classed level five, the most serious level.

Jenkins, who moved his studies to Bath, was given a four month suspended sentence at Cambridge Crown Court in April 2009.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360514/Turon-Ali-groomed-girl-14-escapes-prison-Judge-says-hes-real-paedophile.html#ixzz1F3lE9DQA

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 26 Feb - 11:51

FFS! A 26 year-old man grooms a 14 year-old girl and he's not a 'paedophile as such.' That's unbelievable.

And this one!

Judge Hawkesworth also refused to jail child sex offender Jonathan Jenkins, then 21, after claiming his 'studies would be ruined' if he was put behind bars.

It wouldn't have been his incarceration that ruined his studies, it would have been his own perverted behaviour.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  malena stool on Sat 26 Feb - 13:31

Why has this judge not been defrocked, disrobed, dewigged or whatever happens to incompetent old fools?

The family of next child to falls foul of this imitation paedophile, (and he will re-offend) released into the community by this brainless old fart need to challenge his right and ability to sit as a judge again.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  widowan on Sat 26 Feb - 13:33

If he knew she was that young, that makes him a pedophile in my book. HOwever a 14 year old who is "sexually compliant" possibly has stated their age as 16 (or older), might be a case considered statuatory rape - there could be a difference between that situation and one involving say a nine year old. It's a sex crime however, or would have been if not for her brother's intervention. If he's a pedophile the fine and punishment won't matter because he "won't be able to control his sexual urges" - ever.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  widowan on Sat 26 Feb - 13:41

malena stool wrote:Why has this judge not been defrocked, disrobed, dewigged or whatever happens to incompetent old fools?

The family of next child to falls foul of this imitation paedophile, (and he will re-offend) released into the community by this brainless old fart need to challenge his right and ability to sit as a judge again.

It seems like the judge might have been drawing a distinction between statuatory rape scenario and pedophilia "as such" -?

The war against women and children and the increases in sex crimes - don't know if it's happening elsewhere but in the US it is a fact - seems to require some education on the part of parents, judges, and young people and some new rules and laws. it's like our legal infrastructure is still in the olden days while the rise of internet porn and everything else is going full steam ahead.

We have a show here called Toddlers in Tiaras and the sexualization of very young girls is frightening, it is the parents, the mothers mostly, doing this - dressing the girls in show girl outfits and teaching them these "routines" that in some cases look like all they lack is a stripper pole.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  malena stool on Sat 26 Feb - 13:58

widowan wrote:
malena stool wrote:Why has this judge not been defrocked, disrobed, dewigged or whatever happens to incompetent old fools?

The family of next child to falls foul of this imitation paedophile, (and he will re-offend) released into the community by this brainless old fart need to challenge his right and ability to sit as a judge again.

It seems like the judge might have been drawing a distinction between statuatory rape scenario and pedophilia "as such" -?

The war against women and children and the increases in sex crimes - don't know if it's happening elsewhere but in the US it is a fact - seems to require some education on the part of parents, judges, and young people and some new rules and laws. it's like our legal infrastructure is still in the olden days while the rise of internet porn and everything else is going full steam ahead.

We have a show here called Toddlers in Tiaras and the sexualization of very young girls is frightening, it is the parents, the mothers mostly, doing this - dressing the girls in show girl outfits and teaching them these "routines" that in some cases look like all they lack is a stripper pole.
I have seen a US show something like you describe here on UK tv. I blame the parents especially the mothers who seemed to be beating a trail to get their offspring into the limelight. What on earth is wrong with them, don't they want their kids to have a childhood?

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  comperedna on Sat 26 Feb - 14:02

Any man who grooms a 14 year old girl for sex needs to have the book thrown at him. Such girls are not mature enough to make any decisions about having sex. In the UK it would probably be statuary rape in such a grooming case and prison would beckon.

However, what the judge might have been alluding to is the use of the word paedophile, which should really be kept to apply to the weird desire some sick adults have to have sex with PRE - pubescent children, who have children's bodies and no physical evidence of maturity.

Any normal male might be fleetingly attracted to some fully physically mature but underage teenager, if he was not AWARE he/she was underage, but would rapidly move on once the age was discovered. Paedophilia is a horrible mental/physical/compulsive aberration, whereas anyone who has sex with someone underage, in the UK, is more correctly committing a criminal offence... even a seveteen year old boy and his fifteen year old girlfriend.

Middle aged men who corrupt young teen age girls are committing appalling offences but I wish the same quasi-medical term paedophile was not used, as it is about entrapping young children for sex rather than physically mature teenagers for the same thing... and the distinction matters, especially if the criminal has yet to be caught...

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  widowan on Sat 26 Feb - 14:13

good post comperedna, I agree, the term pedo should be reserved for those who are attracted to children in the pre adolescent stage.

MS, I don't know what is wrong with the parents, apart from, if you look at them, at least on this US show the mothers appear to be trying to capture sexualized attention for their child that they themselves are no longer able to get. The thrill of the hunt is over for them - disturbingly many are grossly obese and it appears they have nothing in their lives as exciting as this pagent circuit.

Their statements are about how they know their child can get into modelling, or be the next Britney Spears or be a STAR. It's very sad. Dressing a three year old in a $1800 gown - when you live in a trailer particularly and probably have no University savings for them or their other siblings- teaching them to blow kisses and prance and act like a diva, getting spray tans and fake nails - is going to result in a spoiled little girl with the wrong values, set up to believe she ought to be the center of attention and get what she wants because she is "cute" and giving her nothing to latch on to as far as skills or education that might help her reach those goals. I think we've all met young women like this.

Not all parents are pathetic and delusional and some of the older kids seem to just do this for fun - I think the network focuses in on the really awful ones.

Parents save the money and send your daughter to science camp!

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  comperedna on Sat 26 Feb - 14:29

Glad you said that widowan. I thought I would get it in the neck on this site for going on about the use of the term. I thought people might assume I thought the 14 year old girl's situation with the nasty bloke was not too bad... and that definitely isn't the case.

I agree about the children's beauty pageants still held in some parts of the US. (I think of poor JonBennet Ramsay, a case which horrified everyone over here. No-one could understand why intelligent parents would encourage such tacky dressing up and performing. What you say about why is likely true. After a bit everyone left off reading about it as just too awful and too prurient... and then the case was re-opened.

I don't mean to say we don't have baby shows over here, but they are mostly organised by photographers in advertising to promote their own businesses, holding out the promise that the winning child could advertise baby milk or something... and they are about who has the naturally cutest looking very young child... not about dressing up. People don't care for the baby thing much nowadays either...

Nonetheless what happens in the States usually happens here a few years later on... I guess our beauty pageants may be just around the corner... :-( I think it would only take off in the poorest of areas though...

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  widowan on Sat 26 Feb - 15:26

It appears to be a Southern thing, sadly. There is still a lagging behind in social consciousness down here. I would never DARE to say that outloud amongst a group of women here apart from a select few in the book club - but we still have big haired women who consider the highest role and achievement of a woman to be cute and "catch" a husband - a rich one. I think for some of these women, their high school days when they were still young and perky and cute was the height of their lives, which I find incredibly sad. My only consolation is that few of them are in the PTA. Understandable as education is not of huge importance for them or in the lives of their girls.

The show I refer to Toddlers and Tiaras is on a network - TLC - ironically, the Learning Channel - known for its "freakish" shows, people who are hoarders, who have 19 children and ramble insanely about Jesus, who put children in OTT pageants or families of dwarves, not that they are freakish but very unusual.

When that show - about a family of dwarf parents came on I think called Little People Big World - I watched and was pleased that this condition was being shown and dwarves shown as highly successful parents who had real jobs (IT salesman and pre school teacher and very good soccer coach), owned their own business, and gave back to their community - teaching people a valuable lesson about the condition -however it was accompanied by shows about parents of multiples and huge families whose claim to fame was their ability to procreate and suck money out of donations, using their kids as unpaid actors and exposing them to scrutiny and ended their days as normal kids - and then by the likes of hoarders and NOW, horribly, by people with bizarre addictions like eating pottery and cigarette ashes or sofa cushions.

It's so grotesque and I find myself wondering what someone outside this culture would think if they came here and put one of these shows on. Or if they were from another planet, say, and received these broadcasts and felt that this was what our human race is capable of. Reality shows in general do not show us in our best light.

I too was concerned about making a statement that could be taken to defend this 26 year old guy preying on the 14 year old however, bad as that is, the judge may be right it's not pedophilia per se depending on the girl and the situation. We seem to be intent on raising a generation of narcissists and it reminds me of what comedian Dave Chappell said about women who dress like that and then get angry when men treat them as such.

NOT that that is what this 14 year old girl did, we don't have enough evidence apart from the judge saying she was making herself sexually available. However his remark was, you would not dress like a policeman and then be offended if people ran up to you for help when they were car jacked. So if you don't want to be mistaken for a prostitute, don't wear the uniform.

As the parent of a teenaged girl I have spent many years coaching her to "wear the uniform" that presents her as she is, a respectable young lady and a responsible and intelligent person, and it is not always easy with the tv shows we have and the society we are in, the peer pressure and hormones but the consequences are too great to allow her to follow the herd when it swerves in this direction as it tends to do about age 13-14 up through when they finally come to their senses around age 19.

I encouraged her to be in performing arts and sports because those things do give you attention - positive attention - teach skills and give something to do besides "get into trouble." I wish our tv networks would cop on to this and show something that is a positive role model rather than "Rich housewives" and Jersey Shore.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  Porky on Sat 26 Feb - 19:53

I think this says it all...............

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1367050/Revealed-Disturbing-sexualisation-girls-cocktail-parties-stretch-limos.html

Begs the question; why do some people want children these days, particularly girls. Trophy kids?

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  fuzeta on Sat 26 Feb - 19:57

Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  malena stool on Sat 26 Feb - 20:00

fuzeta wrote:Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!
I have an idea where you were going fuzeta...and I believe you are probably right with your thoughts....

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  fuzeta on Sat 26 Feb - 20:06

malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!
I have an idea where you were going fuzeta...and I believe you are probably right with your thoughts....

Interesting isn't it Malena. There seems to be plenty of peodophiles walking amongst us who should have been shut away for good long ago. They seem to get more protected as time goes on------

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  widowan on Sat 26 Feb - 20:15

I'm suggesting that our education system and legal system CATCH UP with what is going on in society today.

We seem to not have integrated techology into the school curriculum in the way you'd want, in order to take best advantage of it - the kids have access to technology, there is amazing opportunity out there to use it in apositive way yet we (in the US) lag behind, still with classrooms who have two computers or no computers in them, and our legal system is lagging behind as well in the case of seeing the abuse that is out there and possible with the Internet yet lag behind also in making sure that we address that in terms of crime.

it seems to be used in an awful way as far as sex crimes against children, in particular.

When we went from horse and buggy to car our infrastructure rose to meet that and so did laws. Now however the Internet seems to be a no man's land. I'm all for free speech and free access to information yet it's like a whole new country has arisen where few laws are in place and the bad guys are taking advantage of it while they can. The use of social sites like facebook as a place to hook up with and groom young kids- and stuff like Craig's list being used as a forum for sex slavery - bears looking into in my opinion. While it's a forum for people to be heard in ways they couldn't otherwise - like with the impact it had on the revolution in Egypt - there is also an opportunity for people to commit crimes and have access to do so that wasnt here before...

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  malena stool on Sat 26 Feb - 20:22

fuzeta wrote:
malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!
I have an idea where you were going fuzeta...and I believe you are probably right with your thoughts....

Interesting isn't it Malena. There seems to be plenty of peodophiles walking amongst us who should have been shut away for good long ago. They seem to get more protected as time goes on------
We could mistakenly think it was the Prisoner's Rights freaks working overtime to keep our prisons empty of all but those who fail to pay a parking fine..... but it's more likely to be the funny handshakes and rentboy appreciation society that's had an influx of some really high flying members....

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  fuzeta on Sat 26 Feb - 20:23

malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:
malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!
I have an idea where you were going fuzeta...and I believe you are probably right with your thoughts....

Interesting isn't it Malena. There seems to be plenty of peodophiles walking amongst us who should have been shut away for good long ago. They seem to get more protected as time goes on------
We could mistakenly think it was the Prisoner's Rights freaks working overtime to keep our prisons empty of all but those who fail to pay a parking fine..... but it's more likely to be the funny handshakes and rentboy appreciation society that's had an influx of some really high flying members....

I am with you there Malena

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 26 Feb - 23:20

malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:
malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!
I have an idea where you were going fuzeta...and I believe you are probably right with your thoughts....

Interesting isn't it Malena. There seems to be plenty of peodophiles walking amongst us who should have been shut away for good long ago. They seem to get more protected as time goes on------
We could mistakenly think it was the Prisoner's Rights freaks working overtime to keep our prisons empty of all but those who fail to pay a parking fine..... but it's more likely to be the funny handshakes and rentboy appreciation society that's had an influx of some really high flying members....

In the mid 90s, I met a young man who had been a 'rent boy,' for a few years. (He was the brother of an acquaintance) He had clients in the UK and in the US. On one of his trips to the US to see a wealthy client, he had left his disabled sister with a wad of cash, because he supported her quite a lot financially and he was going to be away for a while. Well, she was caught passing a counterfeit £20 note and charged and she told the police where she got the money from.

So, the brother was charged. In court, he ended up facing a judge who was also one of his clients! I don't know what the sentence was.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  sunflower on Sat 26 Feb - 23:47

comperedna wrote:Any man who grooms a 14 year old girl for sex needs to have the book thrown at him. Such girls are not mature enough to make any decisions about having sex. In the UK it would probably be statuary rape in such a grooming case and prison would beckon.

However, what the judge might have been alluding to is the use of the word paedophile, which should really be kept to apply to the weird desire some sick adults have to have sex with PRE - pubescent children, who have children's bodies and no physical evidence of maturity.

Any normal male might be fleetingly attracted to some fully physically mature but underage teenager, if he was not AWARE he/she was underage, but would rapidly move on once the age was discovered. Paedophilia is a horrible mental/physical/compulsive aberration, whereas anyone who has sex with someone underage, in the UK, is more correctly committing a criminal offence... even a seveteen year old boy and his fifteen year old girlfriend.

Middle aged men who corrupt young teen age girls are committing appalling offences but I wish the same quasi-medical term paedophile was not used, as it is about entrapping young children for sex rather than physically mature teenagers for the same thing... and the distinction matters, especially if the criminal has yet to be caught...

Excellent post.

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Re: so what, pray tell, is a "real" paedophile???

Post  malena stool on Sun 27 Feb - 14:49

AnnaEsse wrote:
malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:
malena stool wrote:
fuzeta wrote:Seems that rather a lot of judges give lean sentences or find an excuse for peodophiles.

I am not suggesting anything. Just an observation!
I have an idea where you were going fuzeta...and I believe you are probably right with your thoughts....

Interesting isn't it Malena. There seems to be plenty of peodophiles walking amongst us who should have been shut away for good long ago. They seem to get more protected as time goes on------
We could mistakenly think it was the Prisoner's Rights freaks working overtime to keep our prisons empty of all but those who fail to pay a parking fine..... but it's more likely to be the funny handshakes and rentboy appreciation society that's had an influx of some really high flying members....

In the mid 90s, I met a young man who had been a 'rent boy,' for a few years. (He was the brother of an acquaintance) He had clients in the UK and in the US. On one of his trips to the US to see a wealthy client, he had left his disabled sister with a wad of cash, because he supported her quite a lot financially and he was going to be away for a while. Well, she was caught passing a counterfeit £20 note and charged and she told the police where she got the money from.

So, the brother was charged. In court, he ended up facing a judge who was also one of his clients! I don't know what the sentence was.
I know these things happen Anna but as you say nothing ever seems to appear in the media of any trial results or a light and inappropriate sentence is handed down.... Much as the sentences given to the politicians who were caught so blatantly fiddling their expenses. All but a few were doing it yet only a handful are to, or have faced trial. There really is a two tier system which applies to all aspects of life for this people of nation..

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