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Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

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Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  NoStone on Sun 11 Dec - 22:36

Do you ever think there will come a point where Kate and Gerry accept that Madeleine is dead???

That might not be so daft as it seems! Lets just suppose the review comes up with something The Mc's can latch on to.

As ludicrous as this may be - lets say there was 'evidence' that gypsies whooshed Madeleine away from the apartment and across the border into Spain. Gypsies are notorious for smuggling things across borders - as they are for many other things. The trail shows a link to a Victoria look alike that sailed off into the Med with the gypsies package but Oh! - the publicity - how ever will we sell this merchandise now it is so recognisable?? - in fact - it is dangerous for us to hold on to it - so over the side it goes never to be found again.

Obviously this is more than ludicrous but if such a story was brought forward, something that would fill in the gaps for the last four and a half years from beginning to end - something that the press could spin around - do you think at that point the Mc's would admit the girl is dead??

They could tell the world that they can have closure now - close the fund and give the spare change to a good cause, and - as this would 'prove' their innocence - they could move on and spend the rest of their lives being celebraty do-gooders and making lots of cash on the side doing interviews and things for tacky magazines and Lorraine Kelly??

It would get them off the hook in many ways - non?

She's dead Jim - but not by our hands!!!!


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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Guest on Sun 11 Dec - 22:42

It would also finish off their fund. No chance.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  NoStone on Sun 11 Dec - 22:44

Iris wrote:It would also finish off their fund. No chance.
They would'nt need the fund Iris as they would then have a free hand to roam the media, harvesting loads more cash straight into their bank accounts!

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  flower on Sun 11 Dec - 22:49

NoStone wrote:
Iris wrote:It would also finish off their fund. No chance.
They would'nt need the fund Iris as they would then have a free hand to roam the media, harvesting loads more cash straight into their bank accounts!


The fund must be coming to a natural end anyway......... there's only so long people will donate for........ and what better a time to get off the 'Fund' Bandwagon and start selling their stories for their own means??...........

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Guest on Sun 11 Dec - 22:52

There would always be the suspicion, the distrust, the revulsion - they are honestly not that popular - and that will always exist until they are PROVED to be innocent of any wrongdoing. To do that, really you'd need a live Madeleine, or a body, or a proven abductor. Until one of these things turns up, the McCanns can never get off the hook. And they need us all to believe that Madeleine is still alive, still findable, or the money stops - a couple of bereaved parents are not nearly as big a crowd-pleaser as a cute, lost toddler. Who would honestly be interested in their story if they started saying that Madeleine was dead, a common reaction would be, well loads of people have lost a kiddie, get over it. Especially as they contributed to it, and have never, ever taken responsibility for that. That's what sticks in a lot of people's craw.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Angelique on Mon 12 Dec - 0:34

NoStone

After seven years they can declare her presumed dead. Not that they would.

As for money for the Fund.

This depends entirely on people like us doesn't it. How long will we go on asking for justice for Madeleine. People writing about the case and inadvertently libeling them. Maybe this is their new agenda - their new way to make money - by libel cases.

There is also the dreaded Film which was suggested early on.


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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  interested on Mon 12 Dec - 1:13

They will never wind up the fund as along as supporters continue to purchase wristbands and luggage tags.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Angelique on Mon 12 Dec - 1:17

interested

But have you seen any wristbands and luggage tags?

The only wristbands I have see are the ones the McCanns wear. Or old pictures of T7.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  interested on Mon 12 Dec - 1:38

I've never seen anyone with the rubbish the McCanns are pushing but, from what I understand, there is no shortage of "stuff" available from their website, for a price of course. I don't visit the website myself so I can't say I am up-to-date on their marketing opportunities.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  kathybelle on Mon 12 Dec - 2:20

interested wrote:I've never seen anyone with the rubbish the McCanns are pushing but, from what I understand, there is no shortage of "stuff" available from their website, for a price of course. I don't visit the website myself so I can't say I am up-to-date on their marketing opportunities.

Hello Interested, a while ago I saw complaints on Twitter, from people who had paid for merchandise from the McCanns website and never received it.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Christine on Mon 12 Dec - 9:33

Angelique wrote:NoStone

After seven years they can declare her presumed dead. Not that they would.

As for money for the Fund.

This depends entirely on people like us doesn't it. How long will we go on asking for justice for Madeleine. People writing about the case and inadvertently libeling them. Maybe this is their new agenda - their new way to make money - by libel cases.

There is also the dreaded Film which was suggested early on.


I think, as long as she is ward of court, only the judge can do that. I could be wrong of course.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  dazedandconfused on Mon 12 Dec - 9:47

I personally don't think they will ever admit to stating they think she might be dead. Perhaps it would lead to a bit more questioning about how they could have left her and the twins, but while they've got the "hasn't been harmed, still alive" stuff to peddle, they still come across as the long suffering martyrs and all the discrepancies in their statements get brushed under the carpet.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  margaret on Mon 12 Dec - 12:22

The lack of a body is only what's keeping them afloat IMO.

If they ever declared Maddie dead then the blame game would start and end with them for leaving the kids alone.

Whilst there's a hint that Maddie may be alive they're blame free they imagine, trouble is - everyone knows who is really to blame regardless.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  LJC on Fri 16 Dec - 23:48

Its my opinion that the McCanns, especially Kate, could not live with themselves if Madeleine were to be declared dead. They would crumble completely. They would be so eaten up with guilt it would destroy them. They have already, I'm guessing, had to face awkward questions from their parents, from Gerry's family and other members of their respective clans. They can say nothing else but that this was not their fault. They can say nothing else other than Madeleine must be alive. They have to eradicate the truth from their minds, this was nothing to do with them and its important to convince everybody. They will have to explain to the twins one day; they will soon be old enough to ask awkward questions, but they hope the twins will understand if they can tell the twins that this was not their fault. They will keep any documents and papers that declare them not to be at fault and will show these to the twins. They have succeeded in getting the British press onside and they will show all of the positive headlines to the twins, which declare the McCanns are not at fault. I believe their friends will not see them fall apart, will not see the twins go into care, will not see Kate's dear mum and dad suffer any more than they have to. This was a tragic accident borne out of a 'no cares in the world' attitude whilst on holiday, which they all adopted and it could have happened to any one of their children. Their friends put the idea into Kate and Gerry's heads to go out and leave the children in the first place, it was planned in the excitement leading up to the holiday and Kate was assured by everyone that the break would do her a power of good. They know what she went through to have children. They will not stand by and see her lose everything because they do not believe it serves any purpose. They have had their meeting/s in private and they have all agreed to protect Kate and Gerry 'for the greater good'. No one can then walk away quietly and hope that the world forgets that you have publicy stated you believe your daughter is alive, because once you ask the world to look for her the world expects you to keep them informed also. Kate and Gerry have decided on their course of action. They have told the world to search for their daughter and it is what keeps them going and it is what stops them thinking about their own guilt in all of this, it is what keeps them strong, it is what keeps them together as a family, it is what protects the twins, and they believe their families and the world will understand and support them if they can convince one and all that this was not their fault, if they can convince one and all that they are victims as well.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  kathybelle on Sat 17 Dec - 0:49

LJC wrote:Its my opinion that the McCanns, especially Kate, could not live with themselves if Madeleine were to be declared dead. They would crumble completely. They would be so eaten up with guilt it would destroy them. They have already, I'm guessing, had to face awkward questions from their parents, from Gerry's family and other members of their respective clans. They can say nothing else but that this was not their fault. They can say nothing else other than Madeleine must be alive. They have to eradicate the truth from their minds, this was nothing to do with them and its important to convince everybody. They will have to explain to the twins one day; they will soon be old enough to ask awkward questions, but they hope the twins will understand if they can tell the twins that this was not their fault. They will keep any documents and papers that declare them not to be at fault and will show these to the twins. They have succeeded in getting the British press onside and they will show all of the positive headlines to the twins, which declare the McCanns are not at fault. I believe their friends will not see them fall apart, will not see the twins go into care, will not see Kate's dear mum and dad suffer any more than they have to. This was a tragic accident borne out of a 'no cares in the world' attitude whilst on holiday, which they all adopted and it could have happened to any one of their children. Their friends put the idea into Kate and Gerry's heads to go out and leave the children in the first place, it was planned in the excitement leading up to the holiday and Kate was assured by everyone that the break would do her a power of good. They know what she went through to have children. They will not stand by and see her lose everything because they do not believe it serves any purpose. They have had their meeting/s in private and they have all agreed to protect Kate and Gerry 'for the greater good'. No one can then walk away quietly and hope that the world forgets that you have publicy stated you believe your daughter is alive, because once you ask the world to look for her the world expects you to keep them informed also. Kate and Gerry have decided on their course of action. They have told the world to search for their daughter and it is what keeps them going and it is what stops them thinking about their own guilt in all of this, it is what keeps them strong, it is what keeps them together as a family, it is what protects the twins, and they believe their families and the world will understand and support them if they can convince one and all that this was not their fault, if they can convince one and all that they are victims as well.

Hi LJC, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with your post at all. In fact I am so shocked by your post, that the only thing I can say is, please go and read the files on www.mccannfiles.com.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Panda on Sat 17 Dec - 2:06

As long as Madeleine is a Ward of Court the McCanns cannot make any decisions, also, as long as the Portugese keep the file open, no-one can have
closure. I read that the Portugese can keep a File open for 20 years or more and I"m sure the McCanns know this.

I believe the day will come when the fund will close and the McCanns retire from public life, it is only they who are keeping this case alive. Much depends
on the outcome of the Trial in February, if Amaral wins the McCanns will dispense with Clarence, Edgar, FindMadeleine website, facebook, in fact , everything related to Madeleine, close the Fund after they have taken out most of the money and leave enough for a donation to a Charity for missing
children.

Public donations and interest has dried up, what else can they do?

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Guest on Sat 17 Dec - 8:32

@LJC: That seems to cover the issue "as seen by Healy & McCann" quite nicely. The whole edifice does seem to revolve around two key propositions - both of which have been peddled relentlessly - the first being that Madeleine was Abducted and the second being that she is still alive.

Remove either of those planks and the whole thing collapses.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  NoStone on Sat 17 Dec - 10:27

Interesting comments @LJC @Panda and @The End is Nigh.

I can see your point @LJC but I do not think an ongoing campaign it is sustainable for the rest of either the Mc's lives or their parents. It would be difficult for Clarrie to continue to refresh interest in a never ending quest to find Madeleine - sightings have already become tiresome, what else could there be another book or a film? I think the fund would quickly dry up once all the possible libel has been harvested and maybe even depleated through some lost cases themselves i.e. Amaral and Pat Brown.

A great deal of effort TM are putting into 'finding' Madeline centers around supressing the media and No1 target - the internet. Again they have been sucsessful in harvesting all the FB pages in order to control comment that runs against the abduction thesis but they would need very long arms, a great deal of power beyond these shores to suppress internet comment world wide. The Carter Ruck letters may scare folks to death but we now have a first real challenge to there gagging attempts with Pat.

Psychologically I dont think an ongoing campaing to search for Madeleine is sustainable by the Mc's - especially Kate as it would become an over burdening mental activity expending time and energy into something that they know cannot be achieved. Perhaps they think that gagging the world media will then allow them to quietly move away from the search for Madeline being and allow them to be seen to do good things and move into a celeb saint-dom.

I think they would achieve even more freedom if at some point they are presented with enough of a credible scenario that explains Madeleine's disappeareance and likely death as they would peddle the 'we made a mistake' and -we've suffered enough' lines to try and excuse their actions - leaving three young children alone. They could cover that with the twins by saying the police agree that they were not negligent with their checks as they did not prosecute.

The easiest thing for them to have done would have been to come back to the UK, melt back into obscurity and ignore the adverse comments which would soon have faded away. But instead they fuelled the interest and suspicion by thier actions, generated even more anger in decent people seeing negligent parents getting money, celeb status and promoting their ego's based on their confidence that they have enough power supporting them that they could do anything they wanted - including gagging the world - so they could go about their new lives without Madeleine. Its too late for them to retreat into the background now as too many people are involved and as much as the Mc's might try - some of those people are going to exploit what they know at some stage, unless of course the world has really been gagged effectively - which is what they are trying to do is it not????

Perhaps some of their boffin friends in MI5 are developing a computer application where the keyboard blows up and electrocute's the typist whenever the words - 'no evidence of an abduction' are typed....that might shut the nutters up!

BANG! AGGHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


Last edited by NoStone on Sat 17 Dec - 10:59; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Panda on Sat 17 Dec - 10:52

Morning NoStone

Yes, I agree, they started this charade as you say and are now on a treadmill more concerned with shutting people up than searching for their Daughter
which is precisely what public donations to the Fund was meant to do.

The Trial in February will determine their next move I"m sure and they would be wise to keep out of the public domain because the ex NOTW staff are
disputing their claim and if Mylor proves without a doubt that Kate knew that extracts from her Diary had already been exposed in Portugal Kate is in trouble. As I said before, by accepting the £120,000 from the NOTW why use the Leveson enquiry to play the Martyr?

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  NoStone on Sat 17 Dec - 11:08

Morning Panda

Do you think an email proving Clarries agreement will ever be allowed to surface or are the M'cs scurring around behind the scenes and off stage to CR it??

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Panda on Sat 17 Dec - 12:00

NoStone wrote:Morning Panda

Do you think an email proving Clarries agreement will ever be allowed to surface or are the M'cs scurring around behind the scenes and off stage to CR it??

Morning NoStone,

I think Leveson would have a hard time trying to overlook this if the NOTW provides the evidence, which I"m sure Mylor and co are busy right now trying
to find .Clarence may have been the Negotiator, but the McCanns would have had to agree the sum of money involved and Kate laying on the
agony three years later fools no one. Even if Leveson is a friend of Murdoch, he must be seen to be impartial and the fact that he has said it is
"ambiguous " suggests he will want proof. This enquiry was meant to be about phone tapping but the McCanns muscled in about a Newspaper Article
3 years old for which they received money so why are they part of the enquiry.?

I think there may well be Government Ministers furious that Cameron ordered a review and they will not let this drop.......says she hopefully.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Angelique on Sat 17 Dec - 15:00

NoStone

I agree mostly with your posts but this bit is interesting for me:


"The easiest thing for them to have done would have been to come back to the UK, melt back into obscurity and ignore the adverse comments which would soon have faded away. But instead they fuelled the interest and suspicion by thier actions, generated even more anger in decent people seeing negligent parents getting money, celeb status and promoting their ego's based on their confidence that they have enough power supporting them that they could do anything they wanted - including gagging the world - so they could go about their new lives without Madeleine. Its too late for them to retreat into the background now as too many people are involved and as much as the Mc's might try - some of those people are going to exploit what they know at some stage, unless of course the world has really been gagged effectively - which is what they are trying to do is it not????"

I wonder if this is not actually what they had/have in mind. I realise that it seems preposterous to imagine that the disappearance of a small child was connected to something much bigger. But I do wonder about this quite a lot. The Facebook event is very telling - they can and do use support within other organisations with impunity which tells me they do have support everywhere.

If we put all the facts and events together that have happened right from the start it become quite incredible how they are able to control everything.

This LI thing about the email and proof that CM knew about the diary. CM's reply was very carefully worded. He kept it very non-committal on purpose. I do think as suggested by you that there is machinations going on behind the scene and I do think that someone will be within this Inquiry that will use pressure to either destroy the evidence or if not tamper with it and it will come to nothing. Have you noticed as "TEIN" has stated that everytime we think we have them bang to rights - it never comes off.

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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  Guest on Sat 17 Dec - 15:24

Fortunately, history is heavily populated with instances of "the Establishment", conspiracies, cliques, pacts and any other form of underhand, devious, sinful group behaviour coming to an inexorable halt - either under sustained pressure from "the people" or as the result of pangs of conscience.

I'm not one of those who actively subscribes to a wide and deep conspiracy here (although I'm not so daft as to rule the idea out), but believe that by force of personality and undoubted intelligence, supported by a large and credulous family, social and professional network, they (ie Gerry) have taken best advantage of the fact that they "got away with it" right at the beginning and subsequent bleeding-heart performances got a great many shallow-minded people on board.

Just an (unhappy) series of events which were well and truly taken advantage of - and still are being taken advantage of.


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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  LJC on Sat 17 Dec - 18:04

kathybelle wrote:
LJC wrote:Its my opinion that the McCanns, especially Kate, could not live with themselves if Madeleine were to be declared dead. They would crumble completely. They would be so eaten up with guilt it would destroy them. They have already, I'm guessing, had to face awkward questions from their parents, from Gerry's family and other members of their respective clans. They can say nothing else but that this was not their fault. They can say nothing else other than Madeleine must be alive. They have to eradicate the truth from their minds, this was nothing to do with them and its important to convince everybody. They will have to explain to the twins one day; they will soon be old enough to ask awkward questions, but they hope the twins will understand if they can tell the twins that this was not their fault. They will keep any documents and papers that declare them not to be at fault and will show these to the twins. They have succeeded in getting the British press onside and they will show all of the positive headlines to the twins, which declare the McCanns are not at fault. I believe their friends will not see them fall apart, will not see the twins go into care, will not see Kate's dear mum and dad suffer any more than they have to. This was a tragic accident borne out of a 'no cares in the world' attitude whilst on holiday, which they all adopted and it could have happened to any one of their children. Their friends put the idea into Kate and Gerry's heads to go out and leave the children in the first place, it was planned in the excitement leading up to the holiday and Kate was assured by everyone that the break would do her a power of good. They know what she went through to have children. They will not stand by and see her lose everything because they do not believe it serves any purpose. They have had their meeting/s in private and they have all agreed to protect Kate and Gerry 'for the greater good'. No one can then walk away quietly and hope that the world forgets that you have publicy stated you believe your daughter is alive, because once you ask the world to look for her the world expects you to keep them informed also. Kate and Gerry have decided on their course of action. They have told the world to search for their daughter and it is what keeps them going and it is what stops them thinking about their own guilt in all of this, it is what keeps them strong, it is what keeps them together as a family, it is what protects the twins, and they believe their families and the world will understand and support them if they can convince one and all that this was not their fault, if they can convince one and all that they are victims as well.

Hi LJC, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with your post at all. In fact I am so shocked by your post, that the only thing I can say is, please go and read the files on www.mccannfiles.com.

Hi Kathybelle,

I would be very interested to know what parts of my post shock you so much? What bits do you not agree with?

It has always been my view that this collective cover up by the whole group and their argument that Madeleine is alive is for the purpose of protecting not only Kate and Gerry but themselves as well and it has always been my view that people can convince themselves that certain actions they take are for the best, and this is what I think has happened in this particular case. I am open minded and I respect some people think this is about paedophilia within the group of friends or something else very sinister, but my own view has always been that a tragic accident occurred that all of the group feel guilty about, very guilty indeed in fact. It is very much a shared guilt they feel. There is evidence that David Payne in particular made enquires with the OC before the holiday about the OC's child care arrangements and so it is on record that he was unhappy when he was informed by OC that they did not have a room listening service. Kate, we are told, talked at length about her fears of leaving the children, albeit at the dinner table having already left the children, but we do not really know what the response was from her friends. I am guessing they probably assured her that nothing would happen in such a 'safe' place, and once something did go tragically wrong, they are no way in a position to point fingers at Kate and Gerry and say, "Oh no, you are awful bad parents, you have left your children all alone" because they had done exactly the same. In fact whether anyone believes this was a tragic accident as I do, or believes it was a genuine abduction, it could have happened to any one of the little children in that party and they all know it. If they had come clean about what happened, I doubt the police would have arrested just the McCanns alone, for the police would be very concerned that all of the parents were gambling with their childrens' safety and security, and what would have followed would be multiple arrests of all of the group. They would all be facing awkward questions in the courts, from their respective families, and particularly their employers, and they would all definitely be on slippery slopes as doctors. They may all have faced having their children's names added to the 'at risk' register with social services. The Payne's in particular would realise the implications on Kate and Gerry's immediate family, and what their good friends Kate and Gerry would have to lose, and I do believe the McCanns would have lost absolutely everything. The Payne's would not stand by, imo, and see Kate and Gerry lose absolutely everything, and perhaps themselves as well. The whole group would be well aware how their actions would be viewed by OC staff and the police and so collectively they had to say they believed Madeleine was still alive, collectively they had to say that they believed it was an abduction and collectively they had to concoct a timeline which would satisfy any awkward questions from the police.

After 4 years or more, and despite the Gaspers statement, nothing more (so far) has come of the paedophilia claims that the Gaspers tried to make, or anything else just as serious, and all of them with the exception of Kate, as far as any of us know, hang on to their careers and families.

It is one very big hymn sheet that they all sing from, with the chorus being Madeleine is still out there somewhere. They reiterate this over and over again. The brainwashing even extends beyond Madeleine still being alive, to Kate being held up as a model parent and a good example for other mum's to follow.

I do seriously believe they sing this hymn believing they have done the right thing in protecting all of the other children from the clutches of social services, and believing they are sparing all of their other family members the utter grief of knowing a child died whilst in their collective care.

Can they carry this on? Well 4 years have gone by and still Kate and Gerry pop up, their latest showing at the Leveson Enquiry. They have made a very good job of it so far imo and whilst they have their own parents waiting for positive news on Madeleine, they will never settle for the idea that she is dead, and neither will any of the other members of the group, its unthinkable to own up because they all have too much to lose and they feel, imo, it will only extend all of their suffering rather than draw a line under it with suitable punishment.

They do have a pact to keep the message going that Madeleine is still alive and they do believe they have done enough to convince the whole world of this 'fact'.

It would be an easier police investigation imo if it were just Kate and Gerry on that ill fated holiday leaving their children alone, but its much harder with other couples involved also who are backing up a concocted story. Its a much stronger wall of silence to break down at the end of the day.

LJC
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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Post  kathybelle on Sun 18 Dec - 13:07

LJC wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
LJC wrote:Its my opinion that the McCanns, especially Kate, could not live with themselves if Madeleine were to be declared dead. They would crumble completely. They would be so eaten up with guilt it would destroy them. They have already, I'm guessing, had to face awkward questions from their parents, from Gerry's family and other members of their respective clans. They can say nothing else but that this was not their fault. They can say nothing else other than Madeleine must be alive. They have to eradicate the truth from their minds, this was nothing to do with them and its important to convince everybody. They will have to explain to the twins one day; they will soon be old enough to ask awkward questions, but they hope the twins will understand if they can tell the twins that this was not their fault. They will keep any documents and papers that declare them not to be at fault and will show these to the twins. They have succeeded in getting the British press onside and they will show all of the positive headlines to the twins, which declare the McCanns are not at fault. I believe their friends will not see them fall apart, will not see the twins go into care, will not see Kate's dear mum and dad suffer any more than they have to. This was a tragic accident borne out of a 'no cares in the world' attitude whilst on holiday, which they all adopted and it could have happened to any one of their children. Their friends put the idea into Kate and Gerry's heads to go out and leave the children in the first place, it was planned in the excitement leading up to the holiday and Kate was assured by everyone that the break would do her a power of good. They know what she went through to have children. They will not stand by and see her lose everything because they do not believe it serves any purpose. They have had their meeting/s in private and they have all agreed to protect Kate and Gerry 'for the greater good'. No one can then walk away quietly and hope that the world forgets that you have publicy stated you believe your daughter is alive, because once you ask the world to look for her the world expects you to keep them informed also. Kate and Gerry have decided on their course of action. They have told the world to search for their daughter and it is what keeps them going and it is what stops them thinking about their own guilt in all of this, it is what keeps them strong, it is what keeps them together as a family, it is what protects the twins, and they believe their families and the world will understand and support them if they can convince one and all that this was not their fault, if they can convince one and all that they are victims as well.

Hi LJC, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with your post at all. In fact I am so shocked by your post, that the only thing I can say is, please go and read the files on www.mccannfiles.com.

Hi Kathybelle,

I would be very interested to know what parts of my post shock you so much? What bits do you not agree with?

It has always been my view that this collective cover up by the whole group and their argument that Madeleine is alive is for the purpose of protecting not only Kate and Gerry but themselves as well and it has always been my view that people can convince themselves that certain actions they take are for the best, and this is what I think has happened in this particular case. I am open minded and I respect some people think this is about paedophilia within the group of friends or something else very sinister, but my own view has always been that a tragic accident occurred that all of the group feel guilty about, very guilty indeed in fact. It is very much a shared guilt they feel. There is evidence that David Payne in particular made enquires with the OC before the holiday about the OC's child care arrangements and so it is on record that he was unhappy when he was informed by OC that they did not have a room listening service. Kate, we are told, talked at length about her fears of leaving the children, albeit at the dinner table having already left the children, but we do not really know what the response was from her friends. I am guessing they probably assured her that nothing would happen in such a 'safe' place, and once something did go tragically wrong, they are no way in a position to point fingers at Kate and Gerry and say, "Oh no, you are awful bad parents, you have left your children all alone" because they had done exactly the same. In fact whether anyone believes this was a tragic accident as I do, or believes it was a genuine abduction, it could have happened to any one of the little children in that party and they all know it. If they had come clean about what happened, I doubt the police would have arrested just the McCanns alone, for the police would be very concerned that all of the parents were gambling with their childrens' safety and security, and what would have followed would be multiple arrests of all of the group. They would all be facing awkward questions in the courts, from their respective families, and particularly their employers, and they would all definitely be on slippery slopes as doctors. They may all have faced having their children's names added to the 'at risk' register with social services. The Payne's in particular would realise the implications on Kate and Gerry's immediate family, and what their good friends Kate and Gerry would have to lose, and I do believe the McCanns would have lost absolutely everything. The Payne's would not stand by, imo, and see Kate and Gerry lose absolutely everything, and perhaps themselves as well. The whole group would be well aware how their actions would be viewed by OC staff and the police and so collectively they had to say they believed Madeleine was still alive, collectively they had to say that they believed it was an abduction and collectively they had to concoct a timeline which would satisfy any awkward questions from the police.

After 4 years or more, and despite the Gaspers statement, nothing more (so far) has come of the paedophilia claims that the Gaspers tried to make, or anything else just as serious, and all of them with the exception of Kate, as far as any of us know, hang on to their careers and families.

It is one very big hymn sheet that they all sing from, with the chorus being Madeleine is still out there somewhere. They reiterate this over and over again. The brainwashing even extends beyond Madeleine still being alive, to Kate being held up as a model parent and a good example for other mum's to follow.

I do seriously believe they sing this hymn believing they have done the right thing in protecting all of the other children from the clutches of social services, and believing they are sparing all of their other family members the utter grief of knowing a child died whilst in their collective care.

Can they carry this on? Well 4 years have gone by and still Kate and Gerry pop up, their latest showing at the Leveson Enquiry. They have made a very good job of it so far imo and whilst they have their own parents waiting for positive news on Madeleine, they will never settle for the idea that she is dead, and neither will any of the other members of the group, its unthinkable to own up because they all have too much to lose and they feel, imo, it will only extend all of their suffering rather than draw a line under it with suitable punishment.

They do have a pact to keep the message going that Madeleine is still alive and they do believe they have done enough to convince the whole world of this 'fact'.

It would be an easier police investigation imo if it were just Kate and Gerry on that ill fated holiday leaving their children alone, but its much harder with other couples involved also who are backing up a concocted story. Its a much stronger wall of silence to break down at the end of the day.

Hello LJC, as I said previously, I respect your opinion, because you are entitled as the rest of us are to express our opinion. I feel you are making excuses for the McCanns behaviour and that is why I asked you to read the files on the www.mccannfiles.com website.

The McCanns have lied from day one, regarding the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance. Depending on who they were speaking to when they made their phone calls, they gave different versions of what Kate found when she arrived to do her one and only check on the children, on the night Madeleine disappeared. Jon Corner, their media friend, was told that she found the shutter smashed and the room trashed. Other family members were told the shutter was just jemmied which is what the McCanns told the Portuguese police. The McCanns said the jemmied or smashed shutter, was how the abductor entered the apartment and exited the apartment with Madeleine in his arms.

Whatever Kate McCann supposedly found, did not stop her leaving the twins alone in their apartment, when she ran to the Tapas Bar to inform their friends that Madeleine had been abducted. As we know, the police and a Warner official checked the shutter and the shutter was found to be intact. The McCanns admitted they had left their apartment unlocked

The McCanns and their friends, knew this was a crime scene, yet they trampled all over, what could have been evidence that an abductor entered the apartment and took Madeleine. Regarding your reasons why the McCanns left their children unsupervised in what was a safe environment. There is no such thing as leaving young children unsupervised while you go out for the evening. The 30 minute checks the McCanns said they made were just not good enough. Anyone who has had children, know that it takes seconds for them to have an accident, while you go out of the room to make a cup of tea, go to the loo or for some other reason. In fact you can be in the same room as your children, turn your back for a minute, when they have fallen and banged their head on a coffee table.

The McCanns at some point in their career, will have either had to deal with children who have been taken ill, had an accident, which has severely injured them or even killed them, while they have been left alone. The McCanns will have had to inform the police and Social Services, because of what has happened. So your excuse that the McCanns friends persuaded them to leave their children in the way they did, doesn't wash.

Warner received many complaints about the McCanns children crying when they were out. The McCanns were asked about these complaints, in an interview and they denied they happened. They said once their children were asleep they never woke up. No one can guarantee that their children will not wake up, once they are in bed and asleep. They can wake up for a number of reasons, tummy ache, teething problems or because they have had a nightmare, are just some of the reasons a child can wake up.

The McCanns gave a television interview, which was to mark the 1st anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Kate explained that on the morning of the evening Madeleine disappeared, she said that along with her brother Sean, she had woken up and cried for them. Madeleine allegedly said to her parents "Where were you when me and Sean cried?"

Kate said she and her husband looked at each other and said " What did she mean, did she mean when they were having a bath?" Kate then said Madeleine carried on playing. She said we nearly didn't go out, but then decided we would do and we would up our checks to every 30 minutes. This made me wonder how often their other checks were on the other evenings their children were left alone and I thought this is a couple who didn't give a stuff for their children. Their nights out with their friends was more important to the McCanns than the health and safety of their 3 tiny children.

Most parents, especially mothers, have a built in feeling that wants them to protect their children from anything that could harm them. Until children are of an age where they can look after themselves or have the wisdom to get out of situations that could harm them, they need protecting. The McCanns children needed protecting and they didn't get the protection they needed during the evenings. I wondered why the McCanns put their children in a very safe environment during the day, then left them in a very dangerous environment during the evenings.

Kate McCann was asked in a television interview, if she had wanted to joing the locals, who had stayed off work for more than a week, to search for Madeleine. Kate's reply was "I wanted to but apart from the first 48hrs when we weren't functioning, we have been very busy." It might not be physically searching for Madeliene but we have been very busy searching for her in our own way."

I know how the busy the McCanns were, Gerry told us in his daily blogs. He blogged how they were trying to pass their personal best at jogging. In fact there was a photograph of them in a newspaper. where they had jogged to the top of a cliff and were watching the police down below, combing the beach in their quest to find Madeleine.

Gerry also said in his blogs, how they did other things to keep busy. He said they went on long beach walks, to clear their heads. They picked up their relatives from the airport and were photographed by the press. Gerry spoke of the fund raising day they were organising. He said that the event would not be on the 1st anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance, it would be much sooner than that. Gerry said so many things in his blogs, that didn't involve searching for Madeleine, but he never forgot to tell others to keep their eyes open for her. He also never forgot to remind people to press the Paypal button and send a donation to the fund.

Kate says in her book that she and her husband were the only ones who searched for Madeleine. She not only insulted the locals who stayed off work for more than a week, when she made this crass comment. She insulted the Portuguese police, who had their leave and rest days cancelled to enable them to search for Madeleine. She also insulted the holidaymakers who gave up their leisure activities to search for Madeleine, while the McCanns carried on with theirs.

I could go on and on, and on saying why the McCanns, are not the parents you perceive them to be in your post, but I would be here all day. What I will say is, there is only one reason why the McCanns lied and that was to save their own skins and one reason why they never physically searched for Madeleine. This is because they know where she is and if she is dead or alive. The McCanns and their friends, committed a crime, each time they left their children unsupervised. The McCanns crime was made more serious because Madeleine disappeared for whatever reason, on the evening of May the 3rd.

There is no proof Madeleine was abducted, but if she was abducted, the McCanns would have done everything in their power to get her back and that would have included phsycally searching day and night, until they had exhausted every avenue. The McCanns and their extended family, have done nothing physically to find Madeleine. The only physical work they have ever done, is beg for money. I have seen two photographs of money being counted. One was the McCanns counting the money with smiles on their faces and the other photo was of Kate's mother with others, counting the money, with smiles on their faces. The only ones who can find nothing to smile about are the Madeleine supporters and little Madeleine, who had the smile wiped off her face, by the one/s who did what they did to her, before they removed her from the apartment.

LJC if you don't believe me, read the files the facts are there. Opinions or views are fine to express, but they are not facts.


kathybelle
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Re: Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

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