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WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

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WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  interested on Sat 18 Feb - 18:27

Pat Brown has posted "What About the Window" in her Daily Profiler blog.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  Loopdaloop on Sat 18 Feb - 18:34

I just read this! http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-what.html

The Mccann's have really messed with the wrong person this time. Pat Brown is very well connected... It is very interesting that she is hanging out with a retired British Police Officer....

(Correct me if I'm wrong however review teams in Scotland Yard are often made up of retired Police officers.... )




. If you want to break in, you must push them up; they make a horrible noise and they don't stay up...they go up 4/5 of the way and then fall back down. In the video you can see retired British police officer, PM, giving it a go

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  interested on Sat 18 Feb - 18:40

Yes it's good that Pat has a retired BRITISH police officer working along side her. Well done, "PM" whoever you are!!!!

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  wjk on Sat 18 Feb - 19:05

Those shutters go up a lot easier than I thought they would. I was under the impression they'd have to be prised open from the outside?

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  Carolina on Sat 18 Feb - 19:19

If those shutters were closed all the way down without any space at all between each slat, it would be impossible to push them up or even to get your hand underneath to do so. It is only possible to push them up a bit if they are not closed all the way and they would of course fall right back down. If the McCanns had not closed them all the way then the light from the streetlamps would shine throught the openings.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 18 Feb - 19:46

So, if the shutters would not stay up when pushed up from the outside, where did the gust of wind come from that Kate McCann has told us made the curtains go "Whoosh."?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  tanszi on Sat 18 Feb - 20:02

thanks for clearing that up Carolina.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  frencheuropean on Sat 18 Feb - 20:15

AnnaEsse wrote:So, if the shutters would not stay up when pushed up from the outside, where did the gust of wind come from that Kate McCann has told us made the curtains go "Whoosh."?

From a window of opportunity, of course.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  kitti on Sat 18 Feb - 20:35

When the shutters were pulled up, how did .the abductor hold the shutter up and prise the window open when the handles were INSIDE ...you cant slide the window open from the outside .

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  wjk on Sat 18 Feb - 22:30

Carolina wrote:If those shutters were closed all the way down without any space at all between each slat, it would be impossible to push them up or even to get your hand underneath to do so. It is only possible to push them up a bit if they are not closed all the way and they would of course fall right back down. If the McCanns had not closed them all the way then the light from the streetlamps would shine throught the openings.

Thanks Carolina.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  bootsy on Sat 18 Feb - 22:40

I think we all know by now that the shutter scenario put about by the McCanns was complete and utter rubbish,it must have been thought up quickly to fit in with the abduction theory.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  Claudia79 on Sat 18 Feb - 23:34

frencheuropean wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:So, if the shutters would not stay up when pushed up from the outside, where did the gust of wind come from that Kate McCann has told us made the curtains go "Whoosh."?

From a window of opportunity, of course.


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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  NoStone on Sun 19 Feb - 1:08

AnnaEsse wrote:So, if the shutters would not stay up when pushed up from the outside, where did the gust of wind come from that Kate McCann has told us made the curtains go "Whoosh."?

Well according to the pro's the abductor had an accomplice to hold the shutter up whilst he or she (the abductor) apparently worked their magic - achieved the impossible and opened the window from the outside. Maybe then the accomplice was still holding the window open when Kate arrived - I assume to ventilate the room of chloraform??? You see there is a perfectly innocent explaination for anything Pat Brown may or may not find!!!


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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  jinvta on Sun 19 Feb - 1:24

It seems to me that the tapas group goes to great lengths to mention that there were a few slats open in the shutters, because they know that the shutters would not have been able to be opened otherwise. However, Dianne Webster initially claimed that it was impossible for her to open the shutters, but then later claimed that she could only open them so far. Why the change of heart?

Matt on his 9:05 pm check claims to have checked outside the McCanns window and that the shutters were definitely closed. He then goes to check from the inside at 9:30 pm and finds "That it seemed to him that the shutters of the bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open."

Hmm, shutters closed at 9:00 and then open at 9:30, why did this discrepancy not set off any alarm bells to Matt? Unbelievable! Gerry would have had no reason to open the shutters during his 9:10 check, so Matt should have suspected something was wrong right then and there, but no, everything was fine since nobody was crying.

Even if the shutters were not locked and were able to be opened from the outside, there is no way that the window could have been opened from the outside without leaving a trace. Why would an abductor risk opening the shutters from the outside, only to open the window from the inside? Of course, we all know that Kate's fingeprints were the only ones on the window.

In Gerry's statement he stated "Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside." There is no mention that he had locked the shutters only closed them. I am not familiar with these shutters, do they automatically lock when closed?

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  Wintabells on Sun 19 Feb - 1:29

I, too, am amazed at how easily those shutters go up. And although it's noisy, I don't imagine anyone hearing shutters going up would autmatically think a crime was being committed, so I don't think the noise of them is relevant. However, there's still the issue of how was the window opened from the outside?

The only thing that would make sense would be that the window and shutters were opened from the inside and left open.

But then why didn't Matt notice the breeze/low temperature and/or increased lighting when he 'checked' at 9.35pm? I guess this is why he claims he only really looked towards the bedroom from afar, rather than going inside.

The McTeam know that if the 'abductor' was Tannerman, it's unlikely he got into 5a whilst Gerry was chatting to JW, so he must have already been inside when Gerry 'checked' at 9.05pm.

So are we to believe that the 'abductor' got in via the open patio doors after 8.30pm and remained inside until 9.15pm when he decided to climb out of the window, child in arms, and walk past three witnesses?

It would surely make more sense that he got in after Matt's check at 9.30pm and was the bloke the Smiths saw at 9.50pm. How odd that the McTeam really don't want to think about that possiblility.


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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  Wintabells on Sun 19 Feb - 1:38

They can't have Gerry standing by the gate of 5a at 9.10pm, because otherwise Bungleman wouldn't be able to sneak into the patio doors and jump out of the window, child in arms at 9.15pm unless he was already inside during Gerry's check, which is unlikely.

So Gerry has to have walked down the road a bit and crossed over to chat to JW so the abductor could slip in through the gate un-noticed.

Boy, they really don't want it to be Smithman do they?

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  NoStone on Sun 19 Feb - 2:41

jinvta wrote: There is no mention that he had locked the shutters only closed them. I am not familiar with these shutters, do they automatically lock when closed?

I have no idea what type of shutters there are in 5A but they do look familiar to the ones I am used to. Inside the shutters have the roller band, about an inch wide for raising and lowering the shutters themselves. Then there is a slide lock to lock them in place which is not automatic. The lock allows you to lock the shutters in whatever position you wish.

We need to remember that the two primary roles for the shutters are not security although they do add a degree. There main role is to keep out the hot sun so depending on the direction of the window and the time of day - you may wish to keep the shutter closed to keep out the hot sun, esp at siesta time or open them up to let in the morning/evening light. Or half open - whatever - but the lock holds them in whatever position.

There second job is protection against the wild storms you get out there. When closing apartments down for the winter shutters are closed and firmly locked to stop them flapping about in the high winds. So the answer is that they maybe lockable (and unlockable) from the inside only but do not lock automatically!!!

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  jinvta on Sun 19 Feb - 3:47

Thanks NoStone for that clarification. We don't have anything like those types of shutters here on the west coast of the USA.

I would have expected all windows and shutters to be firmly locked upon the McCanns moving into the apartment, wouldn't that normal procedure between a change of residents? However, the McCanns claim to have never opened the window or shutters in the children's bedroom. It just doesn't make sense that Gerry would be surprised that the shutters could easily be opened when they were not even locked, though Dianne Webster claimed it was impossible to open the shutters. Something is amiss here.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  NoStone on Sun 19 Feb - 6:13

jinvta wrote:Thanks NoStone for that clarification. We don't have anything like those types of shutters here on the west coast of the USA.

I would have expected all windows and shutters to be firmly locked upon the McCanns moving into the apartment, wouldn't that normal procedure between a change of residents? However, the McCanns claim to have never opened the window or shutters in the children's bedroom. It just doesn't make sense that Gerry would be surprised that the shutters could easily be opened when they were not even locked, though Dianne Webster claimed it was impossible to open the shutters. Something is amiss here.

Your welcome Jinvta! I agree the windows would probabbly be closed shut on change over (from one occupant to another) but the shutters would not necessarily be locked, lowered yes, but as they stay down in position with gravity, not necessarily locked. At that time of year I doubt if the sun was a problem either in terms of the amount of light coming into the room dring the day or the heat it would generate in the room. They would have little cause to use either the window or the shutters if the room was only used at night. So Gerry might have found the shutters easy to open if they were not locked.

As for D Webster, it is possible that she did not realise that the shutters in her apt were still locked so she would have had trouble opening them from the inside or outside if she did not know how they worked. The slide locking device is not marked - 'lock/unlock' in anyway - you have to figure this out for yourself So she might not know what it was for and did not understand why she could not work them!

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  tigger on Sun 19 Feb - 7:24

Wintabells wrote:They can't have Gerry standing by the gate of 5a at 9.10pm, because otherwise Bungleman wouldn't be able to sneak into the patio doors and jump out of the window, child in arms at 9.15pm unless he was already inside during Gerry's check, which is unlikely.

So Gerry has to have walked down the road a bit and crossed over to chat to JW so the abductor could slip in through the gate un-noticed.

Boy, they really don't want it to be Smithman do they?

It's my belief - based on the lack of imagination of the T7 at least - that JT described Gerry when she described bundle man.
The impossible way he carried the child - I can believe you carry a dead body like that, not a living child. Imo she may have described something she saw earlier that week.
If that was an abductor then it was the most difficult way to carry a child. 3/4 stone.
The head was on his left arm, but if he scooped her up from the bed, it'd be the other way round. If you didn't want to wake a child, it's unlikely you're going to change her position too much.
The Smiths described Gerry too, that was the trouble, they should simply have described 'the abductor'. Perhaps what went wrong there was that the Smiths were spread out over the street and each saw Gerry from a slightly different point of view. Gerry - instead of being able to turn away his face, could not hide it from all of them at once.

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

Post  Sara_Rose_ on Sun 19 Feb - 10:08

tigger wrote:.
The Smiths described Gerry too, that was the trouble, they should simply have described 'the abductor'. Perhaps what went wrong there was that the Smiths were spread out over the street and each saw Gerry from a slightly different point of view. Gerry - instead of being able to turn away his face, could not hide it from all of them at once.

Indeed tigger. There was reportedly 9? people in the Smith party that night. But the McCann's & team - (Brian kennedy visited these witnessses I believe?) never requested the Smiths do a photofit! Why not?

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Re: WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW - By Pat Brown

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