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Now Isreal

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  chrissie on Tue 20 Nov - 16:15

Neal Mann ‏@fieldproducer

RT @Reuters GAZA TRUCE WILL BE DECLARED AT 1900 GMT AND GO INTO EFFECT AT 2200 GMT - HAMAS OFFICIAL SAYS

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Panda on Tue 20 Nov - 16:42

By Matt Hill This is more enlightening as to what happened BEFORE the recent bombing.

11:35AM GMT 20 Nov 2012

103 Comments




Partisans of the Israel-Palestine conflict – and it often seems everyone’s a partisan of one side or the other – know exactly who to blame for the fighting now in its sixth day. The other guy, of course.


But the bombs dropping on Gaza and southern Israel haven’t fallen out of a clear blue sky. So what happens if we trace events backwards and try to answer, as objectively as possible, the obvious question: who started it?


The latest phase of fighting started on 14 November when Israel assassinated the Hamas military leader Ahmed Jabari. A day earlier, Hamas was touting a truce offer, but only after two days of fighting which saw over a hundred missiles launched into Israel and Gaza coming under attack by warplanes, drones and artillery.


These exchanges were preceded on 10 November by the injury of two IDF soldiers, hit by an anti-tank missile as they patrolled outside the Strip, and the deaths of at least five Palestinians and the injury of dozens more when Israel responded with shelling and air strikes.


And these incidents, in turn, were sparked by the killing of a 13-year-old Palestinian boy who was caught in the crossfire of a gun battle between the IDF and Palestinian militants on 8 November.



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We could go back further: to 5 November, when Israeli soldiers shot dead an unarmed, "mentally unfit" Palestinian man who got too close to a border fence; or to 24 October, when Gaza militants fired over 50 rockets into Israel in 24 hours, injuring three.

Those attacks came in the wake of … but you get the picture. In this part of the world, each violent act can be, and is, justified as a "response" to some previous "provocation" by the other side.

Whatever political or strategic calculations prompted each move – whether Hamas ramped up its operations for fear of being outflanked by rival Salafist groups in Gaza, or Benjamin Netanyahu is flexing his muscles ahead of Israeli elections in January – they played into a tit-for-tat logic on the ground where escalation was virtually unavoidable.

And of course none of this can be divorced from the larger context of the conflict. Apologists for the Palestinians point to the huge disparity in casualties between the two sides: 320 Palestinians killed as against 25 Israelis since the last flare-up in 2008-9.

Israel’s supporters counter that if few Palestinian rockets have hit their target, that isn’t for want of trying, with around 800 fired in 2012 before last week’s fighting (up from 375 last year).

We like to imagine we start off with the facts and then form conclusions by interpreting them. But, as any good historian can tell you, in practice it often works the other way round: we tend to bring interpretations to the facts and arrange them accordingly. Whether you regard Israel or the Palestinians as the main aggressors in this round of violence probably depends as much on your view of events in 1948 (the first Arab-Israeli war) or 1917 (the Balfour Declaration) as those of last week.

Medieval theologians thought you could trace any event in the universe back through an unbroken causal chain to arrive at a First Cause, ie God. In much the same way, apologists on either side in the Israel-Palestine conflict are adept at tracing any given act of violence back to a first cause called Zionism or, depending on your point of view, Arab terror.

This isn’t merely grossly simplistic: it also contributes to the mutual incomprehension that makes solving this conflict so difficult.

Unless we want to see more of the bloodshed of recent days, at some point the two sides will have to come out of their cloisters and find a way to start talking

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Guest on Tue 20 Nov - 18:52

Tony Blair? Middle East Peace Envoy? How's that working out then?

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Guest on Tue 20 Nov - 18:54

It's true. We could go back for ever debating about "who started it". The point is that now is the time to finish it. There has to be a line drawn and we go from what we have got now.

Can't see it happening anytime soon though - sadly.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  malena stool on Tue 20 Nov - 19:07

It seems wonder reporter Matt Hill (Scoop to his contemporaries) has answered his own question:-
Quote
"These exchanges were preceded on 10 November by the injury of two IDF soldiers, hit by an anti-tank missile as they patrolled outside the Strip, and the deaths of at least five Palestinians and the injury of dozens more when Israel responded with shellfire and airstrikes".
Unquote.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  fuzeta on Tue 20 Nov - 22:19

Iris wrote:Tony Blair? Middle East Peace Envoy? How's that working out then?

This is what I think of Tony Blair being a Middle East peace envoy - Me and Cheri got to keep our tans topped and keep an eye on the oil shares

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Badboy on Tue 20 Nov - 23:15

fuzeta wrote:
Iris wrote:Tony Blair? Middle East Peace Envoy? How's that working out then?

This is what I think of Tony Blair being a Middle East peace envoy - Me and Cheri got to keep our tans topped and keep an eye on the oil shares
DIDN'T HE VISTED THE PALESTINIAN PRESIDENT ONLY TO BE TOLD WHAT ABOUT GAZA

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Panda on Wed 21 Nov - 7:14

Chilling live tweets as windows shatter around journalists in Gaza City


Twitter made for unnerving reading on Tuesday night as international journalists covering the Gaza conflict live tweeted while air strikes rocked the very buildings they were sheltering in.








Palestinians inspect the damage on a building moments after an Israeli airstrike in Gaza City, early Wednesday, Nov 21, 2012. Photo: AP Photo/Bernat Armangue





1:39AM GMT 21 Nov 2012




One strike hit an unknown target so close to two of the hotels where international journalists were sheltering that it blew the windows out.


The attack came as the Israeli Defence Force warned journalists to avoid being used as human shields.


Early this morning, the Telegraph's Phoebe Greenwood reported: "Enormous explosion near hotel in #Gaza City smashed glass windows through the building. That was very close indeed. No ceasefire yet".


Twitter: Phoebe Greenwood - Enormous explosion near hotel in #Gaza City smashed glass windows through the building. That was very close indeed. No ceasefire yet


She was joined by a flood of tweets from other journalists, including reporters from the BBC and from French news agency Agence France-Presse, whose office building was among media offices targeted in an Israeli strike earlier in the day.



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Moments before the strike, AFP reporter Sara Hussein tweeted: "That awkward email to your family. Dear parents, the building housing our office was bombed today but I'm doing fine. Hope you're well, Sara".

Minutes later, with the power to the Deira hotel knocked out, she added: "Oh my god MASSIVE explosion here. Okay, but really strong, shook us a lot. Hear broken glass. #Gaza".

NBC News correspondent Ayman Mohyeldin added: "window in my room has been shattered by an Israeli airstrike on an open field next to our hotel in #gaza @NBCNews".

Journalists at the nearby Beach Hotel also reported that the windows in the building had been shattered. Others posted images of journalists in flak jackets and helmets inspecting the damage after the attack. No journalists were reported hurt during the attack.

Twitter: Sharif Kouddous - Many journalists walking around lobby wearing flak jackets and helmets. Some with a look of shock on their faces, others laughing nervously

Meanwhile the IDF used its official Twitter account to warn journalists to avoid being used as human shields. The Washington Post's Cairo bureau chief Abigail Hauslohner, who is also in Gaza, responded:

Twitter: Abigail Hauslohner - Nothing like a good threat bfore bed MT @IDFSpokesperson: Warning 2 reporters in #Gaza: Stay away frm Hamas [who] will use u as humanshields

Twitter: Abigail Hauslohner - .@IDFSpokesperson Seriously, if Hamas is in room 208 (I'm in 209), tell me now.

Also on Tuesday night, the Twitter and Facebook accounts of Israeli vice prime minister Silvan Shalom were hacked by pro-Palestinian activists who published a flood of posts supporting the Palestinian cause.

Earlier on Tuesday, the building housing AFP's Gaza City office was struck by three rockets. "I was in the office with a fixer and suddenly we heard an explosion," AFP photographer Mahmud Hams, who was in the fourth-floor office at the time and was unharmed, said.

"I grabbed my cameras and left the office with the fixer and there was smoke in the hallways. We ran out of the building," he said.

The Israeli military confirmed targeting the eight-storey building in Gaza City's Rimal neighbourhood. "Minutes ago, we surgically targeted a Hamas intelligence operations center on 7th floor of a media building in Gaza. Direct hit confirmed," the the army said via its Twitter account.

"The Hamas terrorists weren't in the media building to be interviewed. They were there to communicate with field operatives and plan attacks," it added.

"Warning to reporters in Gaza: Stay away from Hamas operatives and facilities. Hamas, a terrorist group, will use you as human shields."

The Tuesday night attacks came after three Israeli strikes on buildings that house media offices, which the military defended, saying each raid targeted militant facilities.

The first two strikes came on Sunday, when war planes bombed the Showa and Housari building in the Rimal neighbourhood, causing extensive damage and wounding six journalists, including one who lost a leg.

The building housed various media outlets, including international stations and the Hamas-affiliated al-Quds channel.

The second raid hit the Shuruq building, which also housed various media outlets, including the Hamas-affiliated al-Aqsa television station.

The Shuruq building was hit again on Monday, in a strike that killed a senior Islamic Jihad militant, according to the Islamist faction.

Israel confirmed the attack, with its intelligence services saying the strike had targeted "senior Islamic Jihad officials" who were on the premises.

The Gaza offices of the Associated Press news agency and Al-Jazeera were also hit by strikes on Tuesday.

On Monday, the Israeli military said its initial strikes on the Showa and Housari and Shuruq buildings had targeted rooftop operational communications belonging to Hamas, adding that it had sought to minimise civilian casualties.

But the strikes were condemned by the local Foreign Press Association as well as international media watchdog Reporters Without Borders.

===========================

So much for other Countries Leaders meeting to try to get a truce. Jeremy Bowen , one of the Reporters said the Israelis dropped 1000's of leaflets urging Palestinians to leave by designated routes.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Guest on Wed 21 Nov - 8:57

fuzeta wrote:
Iris wrote:Tony Blair? Middle East Peace Envoy? How's that working out then?

This is what I think of Tony Blair being a Middle East peace envoy - Me and Cheri got to keep our tans topped and keep an eye on the oil shares

You sounded a wee bit like Kate and Gerry there!

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Panda on Wed 21 Nov - 9:09

I read a while ago that Tony and Cherie were visiting a Middle East Country and before they left, the Sheikh took them into a room filled with jewellery, ornaments etc and told them to take a souvenir of their visit.........they took 68 items!!!!

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  tigger on Wed 21 Nov - 10:31

The way it is often presented in the media is that Israel has stolen the country from the 'Palestinians'. There was no such country. Ever.

There are quite a number of Arab citizens living in Israel. They even attend university (I met one at least, who was perfectly happy with his life).

Arafat stole most of the money that poured into 'Palestine' for his own purposes. Newspapers can't get enough of the 'camps' and the miserable life the refugees have. But did those motorcyclists, dragging bodies through the streets look underfed? Most of the money has gone to weapons, not to people.

There are quite a few organisations in Israel who are trying to help the Palestinian people, who are just victims of their warlord masters.

Yes, and 800 rockets raining down on Israel is sufficient reason for retaliation. imo.



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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Guest on Wed 21 Nov - 10:32

News just breaking on Channel 2. An explosion on a bus in Tel Aviv has killed at least 10 people.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Guest on Wed 21 Nov - 10:33

tigger wrote:The way it is often presented in the media is that Israel has stolen the country from the 'Palestinians'. There was no such country. Ever.

There are quite a number of Arab citizens living in Israel. They even attend university (I met one at least, who was perfectly happy with his life).

Arafat stole most of the money that poured into 'Palestine' for his own purposes. Newspapers can't get enough of the 'camps' and the miserable life the refugees have. But did those motorcyclists, dragging bodies through the streets look underfed? Most of the money has gone to weapons, not to people.

There are quite a few organisations in Israel who are trying to help the Palestinian people, who are just victims of their warlord masters.

Yes, and 800 rockets raining down on Israel is sufficient reason for retaliation. imo.



My personal favourite is the Israeli "occupation" of Gaza. They actually pulled out of Gaza completely in 2005.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  tigger on Wed 21 Nov - 10:43

Iris wrote:
tigger wrote:The way it is often presented in the media is that Israel has stolen the country from the 'Palestinians'. There was no such country. Ever.

There are quite a number of Arab citizens living in Israel. They even attend university (I met one at least, who was perfectly happy with his life).

Arafat stole most of the money that poured into 'Palestine' for his own purposes. Newspapers can't get enough of the 'camps' and the miserable life the refugees have. But did those motorcyclists, dragging bodies through the streets look underfed? Most of the money has gone to weapons, not to people.

There are quite a few organisations in Israel who are trying to help the Palestinian people, who are just victims of their warlord masters.

Yes, and 800 rockets raining down on Israel is sufficient reason for retaliation. imo.





My personal favourite is the Israeli "occupation" of Gaza. They actually pulled out of Gaza completely in 2005.

I was in Israel during the Lebanese war '81 I think. They'd sent troops in who spoke fluent Arabic (so that they wouldn't mistake local people for Palestinians) - on the international news a clip was shown of a woman in a village remonstrating with Israeli soldiers. A few Palestinian corpses of uniformed fighters lay nearby.
'This woman's sons have just been killed' the voice-over (BBC I think) said. In fact the woman was telling the Israelis to 'take this rubbish away'. The terrorists had been living and using the village as an occupying force. Something the press still don't grasp.

This was also the first occasion that Israeli citizens protested against the war. A demonstration of some 100.000 people in Tel Aviv took place (Sharon wasn't popular) - nothing was reported in the Western press.

Thanks for that Iris.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 21 Nov - 11:51

Iris wrote:News just breaking on Channel 2. An explosion on a bus in Tel Aviv has killed at least 10 people.

I was thinking about buses, cafes and explosions this morning when I read that Hamas wanted the border between Gaza and Israel to be totally open. That would be fine if there were some way to tell which of those crossing were likely to be the ones going to blow themselves up on a bus or in a cafe.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Panda on Wed 21 Nov - 17:09

Israel and Gaza conflict: Tony Blair meets Shimon Peres for talks in Jerusalem


Middle East envoy Tony Blair holds talks with Israeli President Shimon Peres as cross-border fire between Israel and Gaza militants continues for a sixth day.






















1:26PM GMT 19 Nov 2012




For the latest news on the developing situation in Gaza, follow our live blog.

The former Prime Minister told the Israeli President: "I very much hope that over the coming days we can achieve cessation on a basis that is sustainable, on a basis that stops the threat of missiles coming from Gazatargeted Israeli civilians and also then relieves the people of Gaza who also suffered of course."


Shimon Peres said that Israel's only aim was to stop the rocket fire coming from Gaza: "I think this time Israel is clear that we don't have any ambitions to conquer land or to gain any advantages but really to stop the fire.

"I mean, it is a strange thing, we are well organised so the number of casualties may be not high but the suffering of the mothers and the children is unbelievable."

Meanwhile more footage of the Israeli bombing of Gaza City is emerging. This amateur footage is purported to show an airstrike on a built up area in Gaza on Saturday.











International pressure to agree a ceasefire is mounting after the United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon visited the region on Monday.


Source: Reuters

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 21 Nov - 17:12

pleb-nobby-Lobby

all this is from the Reuters World Service: Egyptian, Palestinian and Israeli sources say ceasefire is reached

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 21 Nov - 17:19

Paul Danahar ‏@pdanahar
A senior Hamas negotiator in #Cairo tells BBC in #Gaza ceasefire deal has been reached. Will come into effect 2100 Gaza time

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  fuzeta on Wed 21 Nov - 17:26

AnnaEsse wrote:Paul Danahar ‏@pdanahar
A senior Hamas negotiator in #Cairo tells BBC in #Gaza ceasefire deal has been reached. Will come into effect 2100 Gaza time

I do hope so Anna. Saw Tony Blair being interviewed the other night. He was asked "as middle east peace envoy what was he doing to bring about peace" All he did was bluster and pass the book. How much is he paid for this job does anyone know? He wants sacking immediately and thrown in a middle eastern prison for receiving money under false pretences.
That would teach him

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  wjk on Wed 21 Nov - 17:35

If this ceasefire comes into effect, we will be told its all because Tony spoke to Shimon Peres. Jeez!

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  Panda on Wed 21 Nov - 17:36

Hilary Clinton has just announced the ceasefire, saying it will start at 2pm, I presume that is Isreali time?

Just announced the cease fire takes affect in 2 hrs New York Time.


Last edited by Panda on Wed 21 Nov - 17:41; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  fuzeta on Wed 21 Nov - 17:38

wjk wrote:If this ceasefire comes into effect, we will be told its all because Tony spoke to Shimon Peres

No doubt about it WJK

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  malena stool on Wed 21 Nov - 19:22

In my opinion the cease fire will happen simply because Hamas have shot off most of their rockets....

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  fuzeta on Wed 21 Nov - 19:43

malena stool wrote:In my opinion the cease fire will happen simply because Hamas have shot off most of their rockets....

This is very likely true Malena, until Russia or some of the other lot provide more.

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Re: Now Isreal

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 21 Nov - 21:58

malena stool wrote:In my opinion the cease fire will happen simply because Hamas have shot off most of their rockets....

Totally agree malena.

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Re: Now Isreal

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