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DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Mon 28 Jan - 22:43

As a matter of interest, it will be 20 years on 12th February since James's death.

Yes, I think that the dreadful way in which JonBenet was tortured and killed was the work of at least one adult and not a child.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  marxman on Mon 28 Jan - 22:53

Just to put the Burke brother bit to bed, this-

At the time of JonBenet's death her older brother Burke was eliminated almost from the start. Logically speaking, the police were certain that the injuries on the body would require the strength a person considerably larger than the nine year old Burke. Whomever killed JonBenet had to carry her from her bedroom on the second floor to the hidden room in the cellar where her body was found. There are not many nine year olds that would have been able to accomplish that task.


But that raises more questions, what where the
parents at if this was the case? Who is running
around your house from floor to floor without you
even stirring from your slumber?

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  kitti on Mon 28 Jan - 22:58

Dedric Owens....6 years old.....took a gun and a knife to school and murdered a 7 year old girl because he said he 'hated her'.....it was treated as a 'hate crime'...


Children get jealous but most children don't want to murder their brother or sister.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  kitti on Mon 28 Jan - 23:00

Why would he have to carry her downstairs, he could off woke her up and said he was taking her to meet santa...who knows.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  kitti on Mon 28 Jan - 23:02

But how could a boy get a stun gun anyway and I think that a child would,off left a lot more clues than were left.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 28 Jan - 23:09

kitti wrote:Why would he have to carry her downstairs, he could off woke her up and said he was taking her to meet santa...who knows.

In one of the videos, detectives describe videos found at the murdered man's home. He had an obsession with young girls and one of the videos shows a small child being wakened by someone dressed as Father Christmas. JonBenet was killed the night before Christmas and the detectives suggest that the killer may have copied the story on the video and wakened JonBenet up dressed as Santa. That way, he probably wouldn't have had to make a lot of noise.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Mon 28 Jan - 23:23

It was actually the night after Christmas. I must get around to watching those videos all the way through; I have seen them before but not very recently.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 28 Jan - 23:25

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was actually the night after Christmas. I must get around to watching those videos all the way through; I have seen them before but not very recently.

Thanks! I think he may still have dressed as Father Christmas.

The videos are excellent I think.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  almostgothic on Mon 28 Jan - 23:26

Interesting read:

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/team-mccann-comparable-to-team-ramsey/

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  weissnicht on Tue 29 Jan - 4:48

interested wrote:Odd that the Grand Jury voted to indict the parents but the prosecutors did not proceed. I've always thought the parents were involved at least in covering up for their son. The mother told investigators that their son was sleeping when she phoned police, but his voice can be heard in the background of the tape which recorded the phone call. Within a very short time of the murder the parents hired a high profile lawyer AND a PR firm. The mother claimed she had gone to bed the previous night but at six o'clock in the morning when the the child was reported "missing", she was still wearing her Christmas outfit (from the party the night before) and was in full makeup. It always sounded to me that she had been up all night writing the 'ransom letter' and planning the coverup.
Yes, I think the same. I always thought the parents are involved in one way or an other.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  jinvta on Tue 29 Jan - 5:51

Interesting article with eerie similarities to Madeleine's case

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/01/28/jonbenet-grand-jury-vindicates-lead-detective/

This week, Charlie Brennan of the Boulder Daily Camera reported that a 1999 Boulder grand jury voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey for the death of their 6-year old daughter, JonBenet, but that then District Attorney Alex Hunter declined to prosecute.

As an investigative reporter who has extensively covered the Ramsey case for nearly 16 years since it began and was personally acquainted with Hunter, this came as a surprise even to me.

Although the Ramsey’s children were cleared early, media reports originally shined a light on the Ramsey’s as the key suspects in the case. After the grand jury cleared the parents however, the family’s lawyers launched a successful public relations offensive that convinced most of the public that the Ramsey’s were innocent.

Now, several years later we are hearing for the first time that the Boulder grand jury found that JonBenet was killed as a result child abuse, and that the abuse was somehow caused by one of the parents.

Certainly, this is not by any means evidence that the Ramsey’s are in fact guilty, but it does chisel away at the public relations campaign the Ramsey’s mounted during the past several years to assert their innocence.

During my time in Boulder from 1997-2000, I spent a considerable amount of time as a cub reporter with Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter. Hunter was a cautious prosecutor who was driven by the probability of winning a conviction, not passion. Since there was no statute of limitations on murder, Hunter often told me, “We only get one shot at this. If we go for it too early we could lose and then JonBenet will never get justice. There’s no reason we can’t wait until we’re ready.”

Alex Hunter knew that proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial is a much higher threshold than convincing a grand jury. After all, the grand jury process only allows prosecutors to make their case and call witnesses without having to face the challenge of defense lawyers.

Strategically, Hunter made a lot of sense, and in my opinion, still does. Hunter viewed the case through the scope of reason, not emotion. However, there were others in the law enforcement community who believed the case should have been presented for trial.

Among the many police officers that stood out at the Boulder Police Department was the case’s lead detective, Steve Thomas. Thomas—whom I once nicknamed ‘JonBenet’s Avenger’—logged more overtime hours than any other officer working on the case. He was convinced that Patsy Ramsey had killed her daughter as a result of child abuse and fought passionately to convince his commanders and prosecutors to go on the offensive and take their chances at trial.

In the many conversations I had with Thomas during the time he was in pursuit of JonBenet’s killer he expressed a deep loyalty to JonBenet, and I was convinced that if anyone could ultimately solve the case, it was he.

Thomas often told me that he understood Hunter’s strategic decision to be wary of prosecution, but always came to the same conclusion: “We owe it to that little girl to take the chance.” Thomas’s attitude was essentially the old adage, “Let justice be done though thy heavens fall.”

In 1998, Thomas resigned in protest, publicly announcing his belief that Patsy Ramsey was involved in JonBenet’s death, and soon thereafter, the Ramsey’s launched a major legal and public relations campaign to discredit him. Thomas was hammered over and over by intruder theorists, and after debating the Ramsey’s on CNN in 2000 the family sued him for defamation and did everything they could to silence him.

Ten years later, after Hunter left office, his prosecutorial successor Mary Lacy shocked the law enforcement community by “exonerating” the Ramsey’s. Lacy’s exoneration came under heavy fire by the Boulder Police and FBI because they felt she had become too personally involved with the family, and authorities worried that her decision was driven by sympathy, not evidence.

They were also critical because although there is evidence that an intruder may have killed JonBenet, there is more compelling evidence that points to the likelihood that Patsy Ramsey was involved in the murder.

Part of Lacy’s decision was driven by the fact that the most experienced homicide investigator who had worked on the case, Lou Smit, believed that the Ramsey’s were innocent. For years, many people believed that the grand jury had not voted to indict the Ramsey’s because of Smit’s testimony.

Now we know otherwise. In fact, what the Boulder grand jury ultimately decided was that Steve Thomas was right all along.

There is no conclusive evidence who killed JonBenet Ramsey. However, those who passionately pursued justice for her deserve to be credited. The Boulder grand jury’s decision may not be conclusive evidence of the Ramsey’s guilt, but it is, to some extent, a vindication of the police department’s investigation and the lead detective who devoted himself to finding her killer.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  almostgothic on Tue 29 Jan - 11:02

JonBenet investigator's tantalizing clue: Intact spider web suggests nobody broke in

A controversial new book by one of the lead detectives in the JonBenet Ramsey murder has brought to light a surprising set of clues the author says have been overlooked.

In James Kolar’s “Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet Ramsey?” the detective says a child’s toy and an intact cobweb help to discount the theory that an intruder entered and killed 6-year-old Ramsey.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jonbenet-ramsey-detective-brings-new-clues-light-foreign-faction-article-1.1117814#ixzz2JMSPVDUX



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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  kitti on Tue 29 Jan - 12:03

I still get a feeling that the child was totally comftable with the person as to walk out off her bedroom to the basement with him/her.


Was she sexually assaulted and if so, where was the DNA from this assault?

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  devonmum on Tue 29 Jan - 13:21

It is fascinating reading.

The Ramseys' behaviour in going on the attack straight away is a carbon copy of what the McCanns have done ( and are still doing)

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  weissnicht on Tue 29 Jan - 14:38

devonmum wrote:It is fascinating reading.

The Ramseys' behaviour in going on the attack straight away is a carbon copy of what the McCanns have done ( and are still doing)
'
I would say, mccanns are the copy cats ;). And for that matter, similarities are also with Elisabeth Smart case, which mccanns new very well.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  devonmum on Tue 29 Jan - 14:46

weissnicht wrote:
devonmum wrote:It is fascinating reading.

The Ramseys' behaviour in going on the attack straight away is a carbon copy of what the McCanns have done ( and are still doing)
'
I would say, mccanns are the copy cats ;). And for that matter, similarities are also with Elisabeth Smart case, which mccanns new very well.

OOOPS! Got parents names round wrong way lol

At least you knew what i ment

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as above

Post  halfamo on Tue 29 Jan - 16:37

weissnicht wrote:
interested wrote:Odd that the Grand Jury voted to indict the parents but the prosecutors did not proceed. I've always thought the parents were involved at least in covering up for their son. The mother told investigators that their son was sleeping when she phoned police, but his voice can be heard in the background of the tape which recorded the phone call. Within a very short time of the murder the parents hired a high profile lawyer AND a PR firm. The mother claimed she had gone to bed the previous night but at six o'clock in the morning when the the child was reported "missing", she was still wearing her Christmas outfit (from the party the night before) and was in full makeup. It always sounded to me that she had been up all night writing the 'ransom letter' and planning the coverup.
Yes, I think the same. I always thought the parents are involved in one way or an other.

Me too the parents never convinced me that they knew nothing .

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  ProfessorPlum on Tue 29 Jan - 17:15

The Ramseys have been exonerated by DA Mary Lacey due to touch DNA being found which belonged to no-one in the family.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  interested on Tue 29 Jan - 17:37

Steve Thomas, the lead investigator on the case, having been known as "JonBenet's Avenger" (as mentioned in jinvta's post above) was to this case what Mr. Amaral is to Madeleine's case. In 2007 (and to this day) I believe the McCanns with their rush to lawyer up, and PR up, followed the example of the Ramseys and that is not even getting into the utter confusion in the Ramsey home with all sorts of people milling about before the child's body was discovered in the basement. There is no doubt in my mind that Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note that she convenienty 'found' in order to coverup whatever happened. It is also interesting to note that, while the little girl's body was found the morning following Christmas, on the 26th of December, the marker on her grave indicates her death as Christmas the 25th. The family knew she died sometime before midnight the previous night.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  almostgothic on Tue 29 Jan - 18:30

The most ridiculous, rambling ransom note ever was written with one of Patsy's pens on one of Patsy's notepads and left on the kitchen staircase which Patsy used every morning when she got up to do breakfast.
It would be safe to assume that anyone illegally entering a house would bring a short-and-sweet ransom note with him - because he'd want to commit his crime and get out of there pretty damn quick before he was spotted.
But this 'phantom abductor', we are led to believe, sat around like forever, first composing his 3-page note, then writing it (and a draft version too) using the writing materials he just happened to find in the house.
He must have had nerves of steel ......

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 29 Jan - 18:38

According to the info on the videos I posted, the PIs who helped the Boulder police with the second investigation were the ones who had worked for the Ramseys. That is the one part of this that makes me rather suspicious. They found evidence the Boulder police had overlooked? Mmmm!

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  interested on Tue 29 Jan - 18:59

almostgothic wrote:The most ridiculous, rambling ransom note ever was written with one of Patsy's pens on one of Patsy's notepads and left on the kitchen staircase which Patsy used every morning when she got up to do breakfast.
It would be safe to assume that anyone illegally entering a house would bring a short-and-sweet ransom note with him - because he'd want to commit his crime and get out of there pretty damn quick before he was spotted.
But this 'phantom abductor', we are led to believe, sat around like forever, first composing his 3-page note, then writing it (and a draft version too) using the writing materials he just happened to find in the house.
He must have had nerves of steel ......

EXACTLY!! Patsy might just as well as signed the note herself. She had all night to compose, revise and re-write it still dressed in her party outfit from the night before, and in full make-up when the police arrived early the next morning.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  dazedandconfused on Tue 29 Jan - 19:28

Couldn't some handwriting expert have analysed the note and be able to confirm or deny it was Patsy's handwriting, or do I watch too much tv and it can't really be done?

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Tue 29 Jan - 19:39

I remember that there were similarities to Patsy's writing but it couldn't conclusively be stated that she wrote the letter.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

Post  interested on Tue 29 Jan - 19:45

dazedandconfused wrote:Couldn't some handwriting expert have analysed the note and be able to confirm or deny it was Patsy's handwriting, or do I watch too much tv and it can't really be done?

I seem to recall that the handwriting analysis experts, INCLUDING THE EXPERTS HIRED BY THE RAMSEYS, were not able to eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the person who wrote the note.

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Re: DM report on JonBenet Ramsey case

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