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CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT

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Post  Panda Sun 19 Sep - 13:19



This is interesting, just found the translation on maddiescasefiles.

--------------



Witness statement 2007.11.21 (in English)

Carolyn Kish

Statement date 21.11.07

I am a British national, and I live in a house in the village in Portugal having lived there for 9 years.

I used to live in Worcester and my family still live there.

I came back to UK on 23rd April 07 to Coventry. I believe with Fly Thomson and was travelling alone.

I flew back with the same airline on 30th April from Coventry to Faro.

I had booked my travel arrangements through a company in Lagos. Part of the package included collecting me from faro and taking me home.

I didn't see any news as my T.V. was not working.

On the afternoon of Monday 7.5.07 I was in Lagos as I needed to do some banking. My car is xxxx coloured and has an English Registration.

Near to the main road in Lagos is a pedestrian area. There are parking spaces at the side and I parked in one of those spaces. There are ATMS near there and I went to the one on the left hand. I don't know what the bank is called but it is about 3 doors away from the Banco Espirito Santos.

On walking towards the ATM I was aware of a man in the pedestrian area. He was holding something to his ear which I thought might be a Dictaphone but later assumed it was a mobile phone.

I noticed him as he was talking very loudly. I remember him saying 'PLEASE DO NOT HURT MADELEINE' There was a lot of other speech, but I can only remember that phrase.

I think he had a notebook in his left hand and I think he was holding the phone in his right hand. The notebook seemed to be the type that journalists use. He seemed very upset and the way he was acting and with the notebook I assumed he was an actor or journalist.

It was very quiet and no-one else was around.

He was pacing up and down, being 10 metres away from me at the furthest, and the closest he was just a few feet away as he walked past me at the back while I was using the ATM.

I would describe him as a white male about 5.6' with pale mousey coloured hair. It think he was wearing an overcoat or raincoat of dark coloured with grey being the main colour I remember. I thought he was talking with a slight Irish accent.

I withdrew 150 Euros at the bank and I also withdraw some cash from my fathers account. I was at the machine for a couple of minutes and when I left the man was still there walking and pacing up and down. I thought to myself 'who's Madeleine'. When I got back into my car the man was still there as I drove away.

I had a lot of chances to see the man's face during that time, and I had never seen him before.


The account the card services is xxxxxxxxxxxxxx in my name at the xxxxx branch. The sort code xxxxxxxx and the account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The card has now been replaced with another sand I don't have the old card number.


I was then going to xxxxxx (a two minute drive away. I was going to do some insurance paperwork.

I have been a member of this bank for many years and am known by staff there. There were 3 staff working and I know that lunch is between 1pm and 2pm, so I think my visit was before that. One of the staff was xxxxx, one was xxx. I was talking to the one of the staff xxxxx. She has a daughter called xxxxx and she always chats when I visit.

She asked me if I heard about the missing English girl. I said I hadn't seen any news. She told me the missing child was called Madeleine and had gone missing from a resort along the coast. I told her that the man I had just heard must have been the father of the child. I only assumed this by logic and from the conversation AFTER the fact.

In relation to the identity of the man I saw I thought initially that he must be the father based on what he said and what the staff had said about the missing girl.

I went to the third local bank to do some more banking.

I don't usually watch or follow news. But months after this saw a news report on the local TV station at home. The footage showed the father of the missing girl. At that point I realised it was the man I had seen on the occasion above. I had not seen this picture before, but I am as sure as can be that he is the person.

I have been asked whether I have made this assumption but I do not believe I have. I am 99.99% sure if shown his photograph with lots of others I would have picked him out as the man.

I have heard GM on t.v. And my interpretation of his accent is that it's slight Scottish or Irish.

I am more interested in the case and have been following it since this event.


In September 2007, I was at a health club of xxxx. There was a kid's party.

Some of the children were walking off and I was worried because of what happened to Madeleine. I kept a watch on them returning them to the group when they walked off. There was also a large t.v. Which showed news about the case. I started talking about it to a man known as xxxxxx I told him what I had seen previously in Lagos. When I told him he said I should go to the police.

I asked him to come with me and he did. We went to the local station, they referred me to the GNR. We went there and they gave an email address for the PJ at Portimao. He then sent them an email and an officer made contact with me.

In relation to the times and dates I can add the following.

I keep a diary which I record a lot of detail in, in particular appointments and finance matters. It is kept up to date and I am not aware of any errors. It shows that 150 euros was withdrawn on 7th may, to cover my phone bill.

I authorise the British or Portuguese police to make any enquiries in relation to these financial transactions.

When I first spoke to the British police about this, I was under the impression that the events happened on the 2nd May. This was before the girl went missing and therefore not correct. I examined my bank statements and found the withdrawal from the ATM, my visit to sort out my insurance and the deposit to the third bank took place in the afternoon of 7th May. My bank have advised me that the cash withdrawal took place at 2.26pm.













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Post  DavidA Sun 19 Sep - 13:40

I am very surprised that I have not seen or heard of this before. I wonder if the phone call Gerry was making was examined?
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Post  ann_chovey Sun 19 Sep - 13:58


I've heard of this before, not sure it was GM. The 7th was the Monday, when he was being interviewed? This was in Lagos.
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Post  Panda Sun 19 Sep - 14:05

DavidA wrote:I am very surprised that I have not seen or heard of this before. I wonder if the phone call Gerry was making was examined?

Yes, it is the first time Iv"e seen it and like you wonder whether the reason the Liverpool Police said the McCanns had no Bank Accounts was because it might prove Gerry withdrew cash at the same atm on that day.
There was correspondence between Paiva and Stuart Prior on the matter,
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Post  kitti Sun 19 Sep - 16:21

Yes i have seen this statement.


'Please do not hurt her, please dont scare her'...isnt that what kate mccann said in her first plea?


Sheer coincidence that if it WASNT gerry a stranger would be saying the EXACT same words that were to be put in this plea!


My guess is was gerry dictating to somone what they were then going on to say.....what was so pressing that he couldnt be bothered to do it face to face.
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Post  fred Sun 19 Sep - 16:37

Yes, I've heard this before, but obviously as it relates to Team McCann, the Briish press won't run it full throtle. They just like stories. "One eyed local paedo is main suspect" type of stories.
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Post  AnnaEsse Sun 19 Sep - 16:40

kitti wrote:Yes i have seen this statement.


'Please do not hurt her, please dont scare her'...isnt that what kate mccann said in her first plea?


Sheer coincidence that if it WASNT gerry a stranger would be saying the EXACT same words that were to be put in this plea!


My guess is was gerry dictating to somone what they were then going on to say.....what was so pressing that he couldnt be bothered to do it face to face.

Good thinking kitti. This may have been for one of those celebs who appeared in support of the early appeal. I could imagine Kate calling Gerry, "Gerry, David Beckham wants to know what we'd like him to say."

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"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)
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Post  kitti Sun 19 Sep - 17:09

ann_chovey wrote:
I've heard of this before, not sure it was GM. The 7th was the Monday, when he was being interviewed? This was in Lagos.



Well thats just it anna...the mccanns DIDNT do rogatory interviews i.e. full interviews when the pj came over to interview the rest off the tapas.


Why not?


We know what the tapas 7 done from the moment that stepped off the plane till 3rd may 2007.....but we dont know what the mccanns did, why?



We only know what the mccanns DID and where they WERE from...the tapas 7!
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Post  kitti Sun 19 Sep - 17:13

We have had a few snippets about they went to the beech and had an icre=cream and their was a man their playing his guitar or whatever....only things they have said which means something to THEM.
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Post  Panda Sun 19 Sep - 17:47

I think this Witness is reliable, I didn"t post everything, it took me long enough to post the Statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 25346

Anyway, apparently she was only in Portugal a few days, having an interview and met up with friends,
particularly this guy Roman Stone and told him what she had seen and heard. He advised her to inform the
Police, but she had to go back to the U.K.. Anyway, Roman was so concerned he went to the Portugese Police
and made a Statement, said he didn"t know where Carolyn lived, but gave the name of her Bank. Paiva
wrote to Stuart Prior who ordered a search, LP found her address and contacted her, that"s why the interview
was almost 6 months later. Had it been earlier, she might have been asked to return to Portugal while the
McCanns were still there to make a formal identification, I believe her testimony BTW
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Post  docmac Sun 19 Sep - 20:26

Panda wrote:I think this Witness is reliable, I didn"t post everything, it took me long enough to post the Statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 25346

Anyway, apparently she was only in Portugal a few days, having an interview and met up with friends,
particularly this guy Roman Stone and told him what she had seen and heard. He advised her to inform the
Police, but she had to go back to the U.K.. Anyway, Roman was so concerned he went to the Portugese Police
and made a Statement, said he didn"t know where Carolyn lived, but gave the name of her Bank. Paiva
wrote to Stuart Prior who ordered a search, LP found her address and contacted her, that"s why the interview
was almost 6 months later. Had it been earlier, she might have been asked to return to Portugal while the
McCanns were still there to make a formal identification, I believe her testimony BTW

Is there conflicting information in the bits that were not posted, Panda? In her statement as posted she said she had been living in Portugal for 9 years. Also she said she accompanied her acquaintance to the police station.

Also confusing to me at any rate is her description of the man. 5 foot 6, pale mousy coloured hair and a 'slight' Irish accent does not sound like Gerry to me at all. And she was at times just feet away from this gentleman, so the description has to be fairly accurate.

Also, if true, there must have been no posters going up in the Algarve for this woman to have been oblivious to events unfolding in the area at that time.
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Post  Jem Sun 19 Sep - 21:55

It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter who was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.


Last edited by Jem on Sun 19 Sep - 22:38; edited 1 time in total
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Post  T4two Sun 19 Sep - 22:11

Jem wrote:It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter whom was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.

Good thinking CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 307691
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Post  Dimsie Sun 19 Sep - 22:22

docmac wrote:Is there conflicting information in the bits that were not posted, Panda? In her statement as posted she said she had been living in Portugal for 9 years. Also she said she accompanied her acquaintance to the police station.

Also confusing to me at any rate is her description of the man. 5 foot 6, pale mousy coloured hair and a 'slight' Irish accent does not sound like Gerry to me at all. And she was at times just feet away from this gentleman, so the description has to be fairly accurate.

Also, if true, there must have been no posters going up in the Algarve for this woman to have been oblivious to events unfolding in the area at that time.
Yes, to me her description of the man doesn't sound at all like Gerry McCann, also Gerry's accent is decidedly Scottish, nor a 'slight' accent by any means. She said he was talking loudly so I'd have thought the accent would be pretty noticeable (it's true a N Irish accent is sometimes mistaken for a Scottish one but usually not the other way round).

And I agree that it would be really strange that she didn't know anything at all about Madeleine's disappearance - surely it was a top news item in Portugal at the time? Even if she wasn't an avid news follower I think it would have been almost impossible not to have seen the missing child's photo on the front of the newspapers or a leading item on the news. Or, as you say, seen a poster or heard other people talking about the disappearance.

PS Off topic for this thread, but I've just posted the latest about the missing Australian girl, Kiesha Abrahams, in the Kiesha thread. Seems the police have seized her mother and stepfather's mobile phones as 'part of the ongoing investigation'.

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Post  lifeisforliving Mon 20 Sep - 0:31

Like others on this thread, this statement worries me a little because I really can't understand wherever she was living that a woman with an interest in the Algarve would not have seen footage of Gerry McCann till as she claims months after the child went missing.

Surely with a real interest/home in the area, she would have shown some interest in the most publicised news of that year?

In fact there is evidence that the section of her statement relating to the fact that she didn't realise it was Gerry she had seen till months later is either a lie or a badly remembered tale.

In her November statement she says

I don't usually watch or follow news. But months after this saw a news report on the local TV station at home. The footage showed the father of the missing girl. At that point I realised it was the man I had seen on the occasion above. I had not seen this picture before, but I am as sure as can be that he is the person.

But

In a letter from the owner/manager of Quinta do Martinhal to the PJ about the Carolyn Kish sighting he says clearly

At the end of the event I got involved in a conversation with Caroline Kish, a British national in her early 30s when we both watched the news on TV while drinking a coffee at the bar.

After a few minutes of talking to her, I realised that she has made an observation with respect to the Madeleine case that she needs to reported (sic) to PJ asap.

(PART EDITED OUT TO SHORTEN THE QUOTE)

- The bank staff asked that they whether she heard the latest (sic).The bank staff told her about Madeleine going missing and Carolyn immediately made the connection to the man she saw in front of the cash machine. She told the bank staff that she must have seen Mr McCann just a few minutes ago. Pictures of Mr McCann on TV confirmed this later.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CAROLYN-KISH.htm#3902 Page 3909

That 'later' must be before he sent the letter on May 8th so definitely NOT months later as she claims in her statement.
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Post  Panda Mon 20 Sep - 7:42

lifeisforliving wrote:Like others on this thread, this statement worries me a little because I really can't understand wherever she was living that a woman with an interest in the Algarve would not have seen footage of Gerry McCann till as she claims months after the child went missing.

Surely with a real interest/home in the area, she would have shown some interest in the most publicised news of that year?

In fact there is evidence that the section of her statement relating to the fact that she didn't realise it was Gerry she had seen till months later is either a lie or a badly remembered tale.

In her November statement she says

I don't usually watch or follow news. But months after this saw a news report on the local TV station at home. The footage showed the father of the missing girl. At that point I realised it was the man I had seen on the occasion above. I had not seen this picture before, but I am as sure as can be that he is the person.

But

In a letter from the owner/manager of Quinta do Martinhal to the PJ about the Carolyn Kish sighting he says clearly

At the end of the event I got involved in a conversation with Caroline Kish, a British national in her early 30s when we both watched the news on TV while drinking a coffee at the bar.

After a few minutes of talking to her, I realised that she has made an observation with respect to the Madeleine case that she needs to reported (sic) to PJ asap.

(PART EDITED OUT TO SHORTEN THE QUOTE)

- The bank staff asked that they whether she heard the latest (sic).The bank staff told her about Madeleine going missing and Carolyn immediately made the connection to the man she saw in front of the cash machine. She told the bank staff that she must have seen Mr McCann just a few minutes ago. Pictures of Mr McCann on TV confirmed this later.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CAROLYN-KISH.htm#3902 Page 3909

That 'later' must be before he sent the letter on May 8th so definitely NOT months later as she claims in her statement.

As far as I could gather from the correspondence, Caroline thought she had withdrawn the money from the
Bank on 2nd May......so thought she was wrong with the sighting. Her mother was ill and she kept going back
and Forth to the U.K. and Portugal. After July when she told Roman, he contacted the Portugese Police after she
had returned to the U.K., hence the search for her. I agree there are anomalies, but don"t think the Witness would lie . Maybe Madeleine WAS abducted, but for ransom , hence the Fund being set up so quickly, but
something went tragically wrong.
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Post  mumbles Mon 20 Sep - 8:04

Jem wrote:It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter who was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.

This is exactly what crossed my mind when reading the statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 944533
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Post  Panda Mon 20 Sep - 8:24

mumbles wrote:
Jem wrote:It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter who was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.

This is exactly what crossed my mind when reading the statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 944533

What are you saying, that this guy Roman and Caroline were in collusion?Made the whole thing up?
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Post  mumbles Mon 20 Sep - 8:38

Panda wrote:
mumbles wrote:
Jem wrote:It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter who was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.

This is exactly what crossed my mind when reading the statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 944533

What are you saying, that this guy Roman and Caroline were in collusion?Made the whole thing up?

Panda, I am saying nothing of the sort!

The witness herself at first thought this was a journalist (he had a notebook in his hand) and only at a later date, after seeing Gerry on the news, did she think that it was him!

Her description of the man was nothing like Gerry.

It's quite possible that the man she saw was a journalist - had Gerry's statement written on his notepad - and was phoning it in to the newspaper he worked for!

ETA: I meant Kate's statement not Gerry's.



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Post  Panda Mon 20 Sep - 8:51

mumbles wrote:
Panda wrote:
mumbles wrote:
Jem wrote:It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter who was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.

This is exactly what crossed my mind when reading the statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 944533

What are you saying, that this guy Roman and Caroline were in collusion?Made the whole thing up?

Panda, I am saying nothing of the sort!

The witness herself at first thought this was a journalist (he had a notebook in his hand) and only at a later date, after seeing Gerry on the news, did she think that it was him!

Her description of the man was nothing like Gerry.

Sorry Mumbles....I misunderstood. I thought Caroline said she thought what he held in his hand was a Notebook but it was a Mobile phone. Is there any way we can confirm the date of the first T.V. Interview of
the McCanns where Kate says "Please do not hurt her"?

It's quite possible that the man she saw was a journalist - had Gerry's statement written on his notepad - and was phoning it in to the newspaper he worked for!

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Post  docmac Mon 20 Sep - 8:59

Panda wrote:
mumbles wrote:
Jem wrote:It is possible that this chap was a journalist/reporter who was simply relaying the contents of the McCanns first televised appeal.

This is exactly what crossed my mind when reading the statement. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 944533

What are you saying, that this guy Roman and Caroline were in collusion?Made the whole thing up?

I keep a diary which I record a lot of detail in, in particular appointments and finance matters. It is kept up to date and I am not aware of any errors.
and
When I first spoke to the British police about this, I was under the impression that the events happened on the 2nd May.
and
I examined my bank statements and found the withdrawal from the ATM, my visit to sort out my insurance and the deposit to the third bank took place in the afternoon of 7th May.
The above three excerpts from the statement just don't add up. She got the time of day completely mixed up too. It's not difficult to spot when everything in the area closes for lunch, so this is a little confusing.

Also, having examined her bank statements, she still does not know the name of the bank where she made the withdrawal?
He was holding something to his ear which I thought might be a Dictaphone but later assumed it was a mobile phone.
She immediately thought it might be a dictaphone??? Are there a lot of people pacing up and down in Lagos talking loudly into their dictaphones? FFS! Unless it WAS a journalist.
CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 294124

Panda wrote:Maybe Madeleine WAS abducted, but for ransom , hence the Fund being set up so quickly, but
something went tragically wrong.
How do you reach this conclusion from this lady's statement?
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Post  mumbles Mon 20 Sep - 9:22

Panda: Sorry Mumbles....I misunderstood. I thought Caroline said she thought what he held in his hand was a Notebook but it was a Mobile phone. Is there any way we can confirm the date of the first T.V. Interview of
the McCanns where Kate says "Please do not hurt her"?


Panda,

Kate McCann said those words on 7th May.



Statement given by Kate McCann BBC News video

2.00pm, Monday 07 May 2007

"We would like to say a few words to the person who is with our Madeleine, or has been with Madeleine.

Madeleine is a beautiful, bright, funny and caring little girl. She is so special.

Please, please do not hurt her. Please don't scare her. Please let us know where to find Madeleine, or put her in a place of safety and tell somebody where.

We beg you to let Madeleine come home. We need our Madeleine. Sean and Amelie need Madeleine and she needs us.

Please give our little girl back.

Por favor, devolva a nossa menina. [Please give our little girl back]"

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id170.html

ETA: I think we can safely conclude that it was a journalist she witnessed! CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 25346
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Post  buildersbum Mon 20 Sep - 9:40

I think by 7th May Gerry would have been well recognisable from all media attention from the case, if it WAS Gerry why didnt anyone else come forward saying they had also seen and heard him on this day!.




CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 873702 CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 873702 THANK YOU MODS, IVE JUST NOTICED IVE BECOME "GOLDEN" CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 873702 CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 873702
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Post  Panda Mon 20 Sep - 9:44


mumbles,

Your"e not going to believe this, I have just spent a long time trying to find the interview where Kate says " please do not hurt her" on the mccannfiles, finally succeeded, copied it, came back ready to post it and say ,yes, it probably was a Journalist........and you beat me to it. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 980535
Just kiddingLOL
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Post  mumbles Mon 20 Sep - 9:49

Panda wrote:
mumbles,

Your"e not going to believe this, I have just spent a long time trying to find the interview where Kate says " please do not hurt her" on the mccannfiles, finally succeeded, copied it, came back ready to post it and say ,yes, it probably was a Journalist........and you beat me to it. CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 980535
Just kiddingLOL

Phew! Glad that's finally sorted! CAROLYN KISH STATEMENT 911264
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