kieshas Abrahams body found stepfather and mother charged with her murder

widowan wrote:

carmen wrote:

widowan wrote:

carmen wrote:

catycat wrote:
Thank you for that as someone contacted me on that one too and I had my suspicions. But Kiesha too they sent me due to my work in coded language.

Although syntax is sporadic on a typed screen I do use software that highlights plagarism.

Do you know a lot about the kind of software used in this matter? The programs for statement analysis, etc?

Did you intend to include me - or is your question directed at catycat??

The question is to you, since you seem to find this concept ridiculous.

What 'concept' are you referring to, exactly?? Conversation analysis or plagiarism detection?? And did I say it was ridiculous??

catycat wrote:Just done arial map of the reserve and panned down to the toilet block and there below if are two twin tennis courts.

Now tell me that that is a coincidence as in the bush on this Reserve Kiesha was put in a bag and buried.

I am off to feel very very sick.
The last thing I wanted was to see tennis courts.

It is well known of the three sites of tennis courts on the Internet and the association with Madeleine playing tennis.

It says update tomorrow on how she was found in the Telegraph there.

http://www.toiletmap.gov.au/toilet.aspx?type=toilet&id=7287d816-4597-46bb-b8be-b2d3e761dcc9

What the parallel with McCann case in your thought? That there were tennis courts and this child was found in a sports duffel or something? I know there is a missing tennis bag in the McCann case or a missing bag that they deny having had, and he played a lot of tennis. Certainly a poorly grown 3 year old could fit into even one of the small duffels Kate was seen carrying later in PDL later. It woudl be so typical of parental murder cases that the child is put into a womb- like environment with their comfort object or blanket or the like. I don't know why that is, since if you were so protective and loving of the child you wouldn't have killed it in the first place but maybe it's a way of "sending them back" where they came from.


What gives you a bad feeling about the tennis courts? If I may ask. I am interested in people's hunches. I think hunches might be a way of our subconscious telling us something, facts or clues that it has picked up on, that we don't know we know, because it's not somehting i n the forefront - we are constantly picking up non verbal and environmental cues and the big computer we call a brain is working away all the time, not just on what we are focused on doing at the moment.

I have had one dream about this case in 4 years and it is surprising, I don't normally remember my dreams. I think it was some idea I had, picked up from hearing this said and that, from seeing photos etc. of the area and of Gerry and Kate - from what I know about what usually happens to kids in these kids of cases - this thought tapping on the window of my mind - hey - your subconscious just put two and two together for you, and is sending a message up!

It's hard to lie to someone who has background in language forensics or in body language. They know exactly what to look for - like an exact duplicate or "plagiaristic" statement - people don't tell the same story the same way so the fact that our McCanns and even the T-7 use the exact same phrases to describe what happened is very suspicious to me, it reeks of a "canned" pre agreed story.

carmen wrote:

widowan wrote:

carmen wrote:

widowan wrote:

carmen wrote:

Do you know a lot about the kind of software used in this matter? The programs for statement analysis, etc?

Did you intend to include me - or is your question directed at catycat??

The question is to you, since you seem to find this concept ridiculous.

What 'concept' are you referring to, exactly?? Conversation analysis or plagiarism detection?? And did I say it was ridiculous??

Gee, three LMAO icons in a row and you are going to quibble about what that means? Forget it.

I get tired of people atttacking posters rather than bringing some information or ideas they themselves have.

I appreciate any new poster with ideas and experience even if those are unfamiliar to some people or difficult to understand, I prefer to make an attempt to do so rather to rely on childish "making fun" of what someone is posting.

I realize that's not the standard with everyone here.

widowan wrote:

Gee, three LMAO icons in a row and you are going to quibble about what that means? Forget it.

I get tired of people atttacking posters rather than bringing some information or ideas they themselves have.

I appreciate any new poster with ideas and experience even if those are unfamiliar to some people or difficult to understand, I prefer to make an attempt to do so rather to rely on childish "making fun" of what someone is posting.

I realize that's not the standard with everyone here.

Well you can get tired with whatever - you're entitled. As am I. Personally, I get tired with this sort of cr@p and wonder what their motive is. But you busy yourself being impressed, eh

widowan

I have to agree I think maybe catyat does have some sort of "connection" going with the subconcious like you say. We all have it but don't tune in. I think the fact that what we call coincidences in life, the one's where you say, funny that, it was the same with ....... I think maybe that's what she meant made her sick. The repeating fact. The fact of the tennis courts, not that someone may be buried there. You remember Kate was it that said "Madeleine used to play tennis" - that's another connection.

I don't think it's that "psychic" thing... I know there is a whole body of work being done that codifies in a practice some of the things we all do and take for granted, in the criminal justice arena. Like body language. Or feeling a statement is suspicious, but not really able to put our finger on it, because our brain notices this but we don't know consciously that "failing to make eye contact or scratching and touching the face when answring a question or making a statement can reveal deception". The statement analysis science is growing as is every branch of forensics. As my daughter says "in five years we'll barely be able to get away with killing somebody" -!- and it seems true, the dna science, human remains and blood dogs, SA, neurolinguistics etc - and the computer programs and other high tech stuff they have now, LDT etc is a booming science, Heald Institute here and many of the "technical colleges" like IT&T teach this now. Technology has come a long way, police work and forensics is starting to really get the benefit of it.

Hunches and weird feelings are one thing, dreams, whatever - we have a powerful computing machine in our heads, and we pick up cues from everything and everyone around us, it goes into the brain - we don't see the software working behind that, any more than we see the apps working away behind our laptop, we just see what's on the screen, the conscious mind. But that doesn't mean it's not happening and that we can't access it if we somehow do the brain equivalent of pressing Alt Control Delete - :) I think for some of us that happens in our sleep but others may have a way to do it when awake or just learned these cues. And there are whole new areas of study around the geography or how land is used around a crime scene, they have this in University of Houston and we are starting to get these seminars here - including Martin Grime here two months ago teaching at the Sheriff's dept, stuff about K9 recovery and all that. There is a lot more going on here than we lay people know of.

I don't think Keisha's father was playing much tennis, he doesn't sound the type. And so I am wondering why the bird's eye view of the area is then upsetting to catycat, seeing the tennis court. If it's just that there was a court a few yards from where MM went missing, that's fine. I guess it is rather a coincidence - there isn't a tennis court within a mile of my house. The closest is at the HS or the Jr College, 1.25 to 3.5 miles away. Perhaps it's just a coincidence - on the other hand I am not a huge believer in coincidence. This case has far too many of them.

I'm interested in how others connect the dots... and in thinking about what they know.

The more I think of it and seeing the video Hideho put together the more I think gerry may have had something to do with this rather than Kate and as with Keisha not an accident or so I believe we will discover, although the parents will probably feign ignorance or innocence as to how she died.

The blood or whatever it was on the curtains and wall of 5A doesn't sound like death by sedation nor would their be blood spatters all the way up the wall from a person falling and hitting their head - if those were blood spatters.

These children who die at the hands of their parents do not seem to do so accidentally - more, mistakenly - the beating wasn't meant to kill the child it got out of hand, a head injury usually - it never seems to be truly an accident. If it was there'd be no reason to hide the body and fake an abduction.

I have a hard time believing Keisha's death would be an accident given her history nor that Caylee Anthony's death was - and I am similarly thinknig the parents may have had more to do as the actor, behind all these cases, rather than someone who came and "found their child dead" - how often does that happen? About as often as they come back and find one missing from a pedo ring abduction that targets middle class 3 year olds on holidays in off season of sleepy small tourist town and does the abductions on foot?

The little girl has gone. But, her body has been found which will give some closure and the wondering where she is will stop. Its already in the media what that child had to put up with. Just hope justice will be done in this case and the judge does the right stuff and jails the couple for life with no parole. No one knows where Madeleine is.....the parents do, and possibly other do. The mother of Kiesha knew all along what happened to that child and so did the other person. Can't help but see similarities in the behaviour of the couple and the McCanns....the same type of acting.

Will Australia though put them in jail for life or at least 20 years and give this baby she is pregnant with a chance to bbe raised by a decent family?

The prejudice against taking children from families or even against protecting them against their own family is very strong across the board. The CPS seems to think that a child is better off with their parent no matter what the parent does to the child. If the parent treated an adult that way they'd be in jail for ASSAULT and yet we routinely return children to these homes.

I'm eager to see this pair put in jail for life for what they did to that little girl, but I wonder if it's a done deal that they won't just get off on some technicality - one or both of them.

Dont forget their is a other child involved in this case.....the child that supposedly died off cot death.


Ifs she pregnant then I have no doubt that this baby will be taken away and adopted, like baby peters little sister, for their own safety.


I wonder if the other baby's body will be exhumed?

widowan wrote:Will Australia though put them in jail for life or at least 20 years and give this baby she is pregnant with a chance to bbe raised by a decent family?

The prejudice against taking children from families or even against protecting them against their own family is very strong across the board. The CPS seems to think that a child is better off with their parent no matter what the parent does to the child. If the parent treated an adult that way they'd be in jail for ASSAULT and yet we routinely return children to these homes.

I'm eager to see this pair put in jail for life for what they did to that little girl, but I wonder if it's a done deal that they won't just get off on some technicality - one or both of them.

They will accuse each other....

Of what?

Mother will accuse father of killing child, all she did was to help hide this because of battered wife syndrome?

Father will accuse mother of doing the actual killing and try to put it onto him?

They tried that approach in the Riley Sawyers (Baby Grace) case here in Galveston, and both got LIFE IN PRISON - I believe without possibililty of parole. This was because the mother told how the child had died in this beating - had they come up with a story that she died by accident, they might have gotten off with something lighter.

But their joint story was that someone from CPS from the State of Ohio, where Riley's father lived, had come and taken the child. Stupid, they proved the letter from CPS was actually made by downloading their logo off the web site and printed out on thes fools home computer.

Mom got scared and went to the police and ratted out step father to make sure or try to make sure she got the better deal. Both monsters got what they deserved in my opinion. The step fathers mother though was in the courtroom and collapsed when his verdict was read. She "couldn't believe" they would sentence her poor baby like that, it wasn't fair.

Police plan to reopen investigations into how Kiesha's brother Ayden died.

It was believed that the little boy, the son of Kristi Anne Abrahams, 28, and her former partner, Chris Weippeart, died from sudden infant death syndrome the year before Kiesha was born.

Kiesha's distraught grandmother Liz Weippeart said she cared for Ayden in the first six weeks of his life but that he died within four days of returning to his mother.

She said that she wanted her grandson's death re-investigated.

Following the arrest of Kristi Abrahams and stepfather Robert Smith, on Friday, investigators are now considering looking into Ayden's death.

"We probably will do," said Detective Inspector Russell Oxford.

Remains believed to be those of the western Sydney schoolgirl were discovered in bushland at Shalvey on Friday.

Chris Weippeart, Kiesha's biological father, said he would have liked to take care of his daughter.

"I just want to know why," he told the Nine Network on Sunday.

"Just being with her is a good memory."

The six-year-old was reported missing from her Mt Druitt home, in Sydney's west, on August 1 last year.

The identity of the skeletal remains discovered on Friday will be confirmed through a post-mortem examination.

On Saturday night, hundreds of people held a candlelight vigil outside Kiesha's home, placing Easter bunnies, stuffed toys and other items along the front fence.

A burning candle destroyed part of the memorial on Sunday night.
Locals said they would work to restore it as soon as possible.

imo i think its good that our police here in aus are open to investigating the little baby boys death

A death after only 4 days in his mother's custody makes that possibility very real. Also would lend support to the stepfather of Keisha if he tried to put this back on to mom. Having two kids die in one house hardly seems to be accidental..

Let's hope Aus CPS is more on the ball with the pregnancy she has now than they were on Keisha and Ayden. That baby needs a different caregiver if they want him to have a different outcome than his elder sister and brother.

widowan wrote:

carmen wrote:

catycat wrote:
Thank you for that as someone contacted me on that one too and I had my suspicions. But Kiesha too they sent me due to my work in coded language.

Although syntax is sporadic on a typed screen I do use software that highlights plagarism.

Do you know a lot about the kind of software used in this matter? The programs for statement analysis, etc?

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/faculty/schegloff/TranscriptionProject/temporala1.html

This downloaded is how a transcribed set of words as turns of conversation with an aim are deducted for meaning, try it yourself and then I will send the next 'how to'. Thank you.

It explains here how transcribed heard tapes of persons are interpreted by experts who then code them and have them verified or added to.

It is a system of key strokes that are added that was created by Gail Jefferson. It is what I use and have on my own software as coded key strokes mean different things in this coding table. Try it on simple pub grub and then see who is not going to buy the beers.

http://www.liso.ucsb.edu/Jefferson/Acknowledgment.pdf

I knew there was software for this kind of linguistic deconstruction but not that the police or their forensics dept and its statement analysis people would use it in this way...

If statements are coded into any kind of electronic format, it would be easy to search them for matching words and phrases that would not normally be in the spontaneous answers of two or more witnesses - they are more likely to show that a story has been "set" ahead of time and people are using, wittingly or unwittingly, that agreed story in their answers, as they use the same responses, "everything was normal up until that night" 'We did the same thing/had the same routine every night" "Half hourly checks" etc.

We had seen this in the rogatory interviews not only in the statements of the witnesses but also in the statement of the policeman doing the interview. I thought that was odd, it was as if the officer were leading the witness for the sake of taking short cuts and had no intention of drawing them into making their own statements that could be reviewed in this way.

In murder cases many times the suspect and even witnesses have their answers recorded and videotaped, in the US. It allows them to do similar analyses on the statements, the exact phrases used, etc. Even in states that have the Sunshine Laws, the prisoner and their visitors are recorded and every thing they say and do - the pauses between remarks - the facial expressions - are documented. It's hard to tell by reading the word "yeah, right" for example if the suspect is saying it with sarcastic inflection and rolling the eyes, or fists clenched, or in simple agreement.

I am looking forward to the Casey Anthony trial because all of her statements and the 911 calls etc are recorded, her visits with her parents and the questions they asked her when she was locked up - I think these will come into play and do so much more to showing deception than a simple written statement can do, it should be interesting. In that case they appear to have the girl dead to rights that she was the agent of her daughter's death, I think they could get a conviction without this kind of thing, but it will certainly be used to influence a jury.

I find this very interesting.