US 13.4 TRILLION DEBT

Watching a discussion and there is a general consensus that the Tax problem will have to be resolved . One former Treasury Official said it was crazy the way lobbyists could dictate Taxes. He said the Treasury spends $400 Billion to collect taxes which return $400 Billion.!!!!!!!

His suggestion is for VAT, as in the U.K. be the fairest way and ensure the rich pay as much as the poor. Apparently a Committee of 6 Democrats and
6 Republicans is to be set up to propose ways of reduccing the U.S. Debt, opinion suggests this will be no better than they have now. The only real
answer is for the U.S. population to reduce their borrowings.

The U.S. is facing a possible double dip recession. China and Russia are blasting the U.S. for it"s profligate borrowing which has jeopardised markets
around the World. Share prices around the World are falling.

Breaking News


4:21am UK, Saturday August 06, 2011



Unprecedented US Credit Rating Downgrade

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Credit rating agency Standard and Poor's has downgraded the United States'
credit rating for the first time in the history of the ratings.










The country's top AAA rating - which it has held since 1917 - now stands one
notch lower, at AA+.

Standard and Poor's (S&P)
said it made the move because the deficit reduction plan passed by Congress on
Tuesday did not go far enough to stabilise the debt situation in the US.

To add to the US' woes, the agency has also issued a negative outlook,
meaning there is a chance it will lower the rating further within the next two
years.

The downgrade could have several consequences for normal Americans.

If buyers are scared away from US debt, the interest rate paid on US bonds,
notes and bills have to rise to attract buyers.

This in turn could trickle down to mortgage holders and those wanting to take
out loans on big-ticket items like cars.



The downgrade will have far-reaching effects



The US government is reported to have fought the downgrade, with a source
close to discussions saying the agency's analysis contained "deep and
fundamental flaws."

S&P had sent the government a draft document in the early afternoon on
Friday and, after examining the numbers, the government challenged the
analysis.

In a statement, the US Treasury said: "A judgment flawed by a
£1.2trn ($2trn) error speaks for itself."

The US has been on notice from S&P since April, when they were told a
downgrade was possible unless Congress and the administration came up with a
credible long-term debt reduction plan.

Congress passed such a
package at the 11th hour earlier this week, narrowly avoiding a
default.

The two other main credit agencies, Moody's Investor Service and Fitch, also
warned the US it faced a downgrade.

Moody's has said the US will keep its AAA rating for now, but that it might
still lower it in the future.

Dj Ashba wrote:Seems to me the people should demand a law that forbids governments to borrow any money at all and to limit their taxation to no more than say 15/20% on anything. This way could concentrate their minds on the difference between essential spending and fanciful waste. We have to live on fixed wages and budget accordingly. They should learn to do the same.

Disagree a law banning governments is a much better idea, now the US of AAA is now the US of AA+

Dj Ashba wrote:Seems to me the people should demand a law that forbids governments to borrow any money at all and to limit their taxation to no more than say 15/20% on anything. This way could concentrate their minds on the difference between essential spending and fanciful waste. We have to live on fixed wages and budget accordingly. They should learn to do the same.

Hi DjAshba and Welcome,

Common sense tells us that no one should live beyond their means but the U.S.A. is so indebted to China that in the event of a default the Chinese
could take over America. It appears there is only $228 billion in gold bars in Fort Knox and the U.S. debt will be $14.3 trillion with thios latest agreement.
The Banks and big business run Countries, not Governments and until we get good honest government it will always be the same and Joe Soap has to
pay for their mistakes for years to come.

Just announced, China is furious with America for the debt they have accumulated, and U.S is indebted to China for U.S. $ 1 Trillion. India too has
called for action from the U.S. and is calling for a new global Currency because of the U.S. and EC Countries problems . This is the end for the $ and
Euro IMO.

China has the right to demand action from the U.S.

Panda wrote:Just announced, China is furious with America for the debt they have accumulated, and U.S is indebted to China for U.S. $ 1 Trillion. India too has
called for action from the U.S. and is calling for a new global Currency because of the U.S. and EC Countries problems . This is the end for the $ and
Euro IMO.

China has the right to demand action from the U.S.

Obama Bin Barack will do anything to keep his second term.

Top dog wrote:

Panda wrote:Just announced, China is furious with America for the debt they have accumulated, and U.S is indebted to China for U.S. $ 1 Trillion. India too has
called for action from the U.S. and is calling for a new global Currency because of the U.S. and EC Countries problems . This is the end for the $ and
Euro IMO.

China has the right to demand action from the U.S.

Obama Bin Barack will do anything to keep his second term.

I actually think the Republicans were responsible for this debacle. Obama wanted to tax the rich a bit more but Republicans were more concerned
about their seats at the next election. Now we have a Committee set up with 6 Democrats and 6 Republicans to try to come up with a solution but it"s
far too late and the Committee should have been made up of financial experts , not Politicians.

Panda wrote:

Top dog wrote:

Panda wrote:Just announced, China is furious with America for the debt they have accumulated, and U.S is indebted to China for U.S. $ 1 Trillion. India too has
called for action from the U.S. and is calling for a new global Currency because of the U.S. and EC Countries problems . This is the end for the $ and
Euro IMO.

China has the right to demand action from the U.S.

Obama Bin Barack will do anything to keep his second term.

I actually think the Republicans were responsible for this debacle. Obama wanted to tax the rich a bit more but Republicans were more concerned
about their seats at the next election. Now we have a Committee set up with 6 Democrats and 6 Republicans to try to come up with a solution but it"s
far too late and the Committee should have been made up of financial experts , not Politicians.

It should signal the end of socialism and will almost certainly bring about the end of the Euro. Obama can probably point his finger at the Bush administration regarding US activity in Iraq and Afghanistan for playing it's part in the US's budget deficit but he can't escape any criticism either. Obama is a little too left for the US and had spent two thirds of his life in various campuses talking to and listening to people who basically said and agreed with the same thing. He's a professor not a leader.

Dj Ashba wrote:

Panda wrote:

Top dog wrote:

Panda wrote:Just announced, China is furious with America for the debt they have accumulated, and U.S is indebted to China for U.S. $ 1 Trillion. India too has
called for action from the U.S. and is calling for a new global Currency because of the U.S. and EC Countries problems . This is the end for the $ and
Euro IMO.

China has the right to demand action from the U.S.

Obama Bin Barack will do anything to keep his second term.

I actually think the Republicans were responsible for this debacle. Obama wanted to tax the rich a bit more but Republicans were more concerned
about their seats at the next election. Now we have a Committee set up with 6 Democrats and 6 Republicans to try to come up with a solution but it"s
far too late and the Committee should have been made up of financial experts , not Politicians.

It should signal the end of socialism and will almost certainly bring about the end of the Euro. Obama can probably point his finger at the Bush administration regarding US activity in Iraq and Afghanistan for playing it's part in the US's budget deficit but he can't escape any criticism either. Obama is a little too left for the US and had spent two thirds of his life in various campuses talking to and listening to people who basically said and agreed with the same thing. He's a professor not a leader.

The Euro was never going to work anyway, 27 different countries with different Governance and Cultures. Britain thought it was reluctantly joining
a common Market, instead we are governed by the EC and have EMPs who do b***er all to earn their fat Salaries and big Pensions. Well, we
have tried Capitalism, Communism and neither worked......there must be a happy medium.

Top dog wrote:

Dj Ashba wrote:Seems to me the people should demand a law that forbids governments to borrow any money at all and to limit their taxation to no more than say 15/20% on anything. This way could concentrate their minds on the difference between essential spending and fanciful waste. We have to live on fixed wages and budget accordingly. They should learn to do the same.

Disagree a law banning governments is a much better idea, now the US of AAA is now the US of AA+

Maybe in all honesty the AA+ of the US, should probably be the "CCC" (or whatever their rating is) of Greece, but nobody has the courage to do that. That's where the likes of Standard & Poor's, Moody's and Fitch are nothing but a joke, with a plan to destroy the Euro, to save the US Dollar! When those guys from the other side of the Atlantic decide to be honest, maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel to leave this crisis.

Panda wrote:

Dj Ashba wrote:

Panda wrote:

Top dog wrote:

Panda wrote:Just announced, China is furious with America for the debt they have accumulated, and U.S is indebted to China for U.S. $ 1 Trillion. India too has
called for action from the U.S. and is calling for a new global Currency because of the U.S. and EC Countries problems . This is the end for the $ and
Euro IMO.

China has the right to demand action from the U.S.

Obama Bin Barack will do anything to keep his second term.

I actually think the Republicans were responsible for this debacle. Obama wanted to tax the rich a bit more but Republicans were more concerned
about their seats at the next election. Now we have a Committee set up with 6 Democrats and 6 Republicans to try to come up with a solution but it"s
far too late and the Committee should have been made up of financial experts , not Politicians.

It should signal the end of socialism and will almost certainly bring about the end of the Euro. Obama can probably point his finger at the Bush administration regarding US activity in Iraq and Afghanistan for playing it's part in the US's budget deficit but he can't escape any criticism either. Obama is a little too left for the US and had spent two thirds of his life in various campuses talking to and listening to people who basically said and agreed with the same thing. He's a professor not a leader.

The Euro was never going to work anyway, 27 different countries with different Governance and Cultures. Britain thought it was reluctantly joining
a common Market, instead we are governed by the EC and have EMPs who do b***er all to earn their fat Salaries and big Pensions. Well, we
have tried Capitalism, Communism and neither worked......there must be a happy medium.

panda

My American friend just sent me this.

----------------------


> > Well over 50 yrs ago I knew a lady who would not buy Christmas
gifts if
> > they were made in China. Her daughter will recognize her
in the following.
> >
> > Did y'all see Diane Sawyer's
special report? They removed ALL items from a
> > typical, middle class
family's home that were not made in the USA .
> >
> > There
was hardly anything left besides the kitchen sink. Literally. During
>
> the special they showed truckloads of items - USA made - being brought in
to
> > replace everything and talked about how to find these items and
the
> > difference in price etc..
> >
> > It was
interesting that Diane said if every American spent just $64 more
> >
than normal on USA made items this year, it would create something like
>
> 200,000 new jobs!
> >
> > I WAS BUYING FOOD THE OTHER
DAY AT WALMART and ON THE LABEL OF SOME PRODUCTS
> > IT SAID 'FROM
CHINA '
> >
> > FOR EXAMPLE THE "OUR FAMILY" BRAND OF THE
MANDARIN ORANGES SAYS RIGHT ON THE
> > CAN 'FROM CHINA '
> >

> > I WAS SHOCKED SO FOR A FEW MORE CENTS I BOUGHT THE LIBERTY GOLD
BRAND OR THE
> > DOLE SINCE IT'S FROM CALIF.
> >
> >
Are we Americans as dumb as we appear --- or --- is it that we just do
not
> > think. The Chinese, knowingly and intentionally, export
inferior and even
> > toxic products and dangerous toys and goods to be
sold in American markets.
> >
> > 70% of Americans believe
that the trading privileges afforded to the Chinese
> > should be
suspended.
> >
> > Why do you need the government to suspend
trading privileges? DO IT
> > YOURSELF, AMERICA !!
> >

> > Simply look on the bottom of every product you buy, and if it says
'Made in
> > China ' or 'PRC' (and that now includes Hong Kong ),
simply choose another
> > product, or none at all. You will be amazed
at how dependent you are on
> > Chinese products, and you will be
equally amazed at what you can do without.
> >
> > Who needs
plastic eggs to celebrate Easter? If you must have eggs, use real
> >
ones and benefit some American farmer. Easter is just an example. The
point
> > is do not wait for the government to act. Just go ahead and
assume control
> > on your own.
> >
> > THINK ABOUT
THIS: If 200 million Americans each refuse to buy just $20 of
> >
Chinese goods, that's a billion dollar trade imbalance resolved in our
>
> favor...fast!!
> >
> > Most of the people who have been
reading about this matter are planning on
> > implementing this on Aug.
1st and continue it until Sept. 1st. That is only
> > one month of
trading losses, but it will hit the Chinese for 1/12th of the
> >
total, or 8%, of their American exports. Then they might have to ask
>
> themselves if the benefits of their arrogance and lawlessness were worth
it.
> >
> > Remember, August 1st to Sept. 1st !!!!!! START
NOW.
> >
> > Send this to everybody you know. Let's show them
that we are Americans and
> > NOBODY can take us for granted.
>
>
> > If we can't live without cheap Chinese goods for one month
out of our lives,
> > WE DESERVE WHAT WE GET!
> >
>
> Pass it on, America ...
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well instead of doing it for just 1 month why not try to do it all the
time.
> >
> >

Yes - I am all for people power - I know all about it. My Papa used to say to me if everyone stopped buying butter, even for one day, the price would plummet!

Same thing with goods from other Countries - but we have to remember that each Government gets reciprocal favours for allowing foreign goods to enter the Country.

There is also the Arab Spring - people power!

Bring it on!

Unfortunately the fact that Governments over-spend and go into debt is because they have borrowed on someone else's income - OURS !

Angelique wrote:Yes - I am all for people power - I know all about it. My Papa used to say to me if everyone stopped buying butter, even for one day, the price would plummet!

Same thing with goods from other Countries - but we have to remember that each Government gets reciprocal favours for allowing foreign goods to enter the Country.

There is also the Arab Spring - people power!

Bring it on!

Unfortunately the fact that Governments over-spend and go into debt is because they have borrowed on someone else's income - OURS !

Maybe the Arab women get some rights, it appears in UAE if you are raped you get a worse sentance than the rapist, your husband can do what he likes. Have checked out UAE etc human rights records makes me

Just announced, several Leaders in Countries affected by the American downgrading are having Telephone discussions to discuss a new Currency
which will be used around the World instead of the U.S. Dollar. No doubt Obama will get the blame for this but he inherited this debt and the Republicans
would not agree to tax the rich a bit more.

Angelique, while ordinary Americans will do this, the rich , yet again , will buy designer clothes and foreign goods at exhorbitant prices rather than pay more tax.

Top dog wrote:

Angelique wrote:Yes - I am all for people power - I know all about it. My Papa used to say to me if everyone stopped buying butter, even for one day, the price would plummet!

Same thing with goods from other Countries - but we have to remember that each Government gets reciprocal favours for allowing foreign goods to enter the Country.

There is also the Arab Spring - people power!

Bring it on!

Unfortunately the fact that Governments over-spend and go into debt is because they have borrowed on someone else's income - OURS !

Maybe the Arab women get some rights, it appears in UAE if you are raped you get a worse sentance than the rapist, your husband can do what he likes. Have checked out UAE etc human rights records makes me

Top dog, we all would like to see every country adopt a better human rights policy, but these Countries have their own rules and the UN or any other Power won"t change their attitude. The Men also receive harsh punishment.

Just annoujnced, 23 American soldiers killed whan a chinook helicopter shot it down. The Taliban claiming responsibility , it appears some of the
soldiers were involved in the killing of Bin Laden.

Top dog

You wrote:

"Maybe the Arab women get some rights, it appears in UAE if you are raped you get a worse sentance than the rapist, your husband can do what he likes. Have checked out UAE etc human rights records "

Yes I know all about this - Sharia Law if I remember correctly.

http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=6157

Angelique wrote:Top dog

You wrote:

"Maybe the Arab women get some rights, it appears in UAE if you are raped you get a worse sentance than the rapist, your husband can do what he likes. Have checked out UAE etc human rights records "

Yes I know all about this - Sharia Law if I remember correctly.

Coming to a UK town near you if they have their way, nearly died in Tunsia stopping 3 girls from being raped had a knife held at my throat, thank god I got the bstd and got those girls out, had a mark from my left ear down through my neck with blood on it, like a razor nick in parts, boy was that a not good day. Oh well still here.

Top dog

I award you "The Bravery Award" you are definitely a braver man than me!

Morning DjAshba,

The problem is , not just America, but also Britain, have got so used to buying cheap imports from China that now , we can"t afford not to. This
Worldwide problem is the result of Government in the U.S. spending too much on invasions of other Countries, Space programs, Banks lending too
much so that most people live on credit these days, Britain is equally to blame.

At the end of the day, it"s a case of bad housekeeping, the worry is, China struck a loan agreement with the U.S.A. a special one, AnnaEsse knows the name, whereby if the U.S. defaults China can come in and take what they want, regardless of who owns it.

Panda wrote:Morning DjAshba,

The problem is , not just America, but also Britain, have got so used to buying cheap imports from China that now , we can"t afford not to. This
Worldwide problem is the result of Government in the U.S. spending too much on invasions of other Countries, Space programs, Banks lending too
much so that most people live on credit these days, Britain is equally to blame.

At the end of the day, it"s a case of bad housekeeping, the worry is, China struck a loan agreement with the U.S.A. a special one, AnnaEsse knows the name, whereby if the U.S. defaults China can come in and take what they want, regardless of who owns it.

Imminent Domain, Panda. When Hillary Clinton went to China soon after Obama came to power, she negotiated huge amounts of money from China in return for granting China Imminent Domain, should the US default.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Panda wrote:Morning DjAshba,

The problem is , not just America, but also Britain, have got so used to buying cheap imports from China that now , we can"t afford not to. This
Worldwide problem is the result of Government in the U.S. spending too much on invasions of other Countries, Space programs, Banks lending too
much so that most people live on credit these days, Britain is equally to blame.

At the end of the day, it"s a case of bad housekeeping, the worry is, China struck a loan agreement with the U.S.A. a special one, AnnaEsse knows the name, whereby if the U.S. defaults China can come in and take what they want, regardless of who owns it.

Imminent Domain, Panda. When Hillary Clinton went to China soon after Obama came to power, she negotiated huge amounts of money from China in return for granting China Imminent Domain, should the US default.

Thanks AnnaEsse.

Cameron Mitchell has cut short his holiday and been in discussion with Sarkozy, with the amount of debt the U.S. has they will never be able to repay
it . Was it U.S. $ 4 billion or trillion Obama was hoping to reduce in 10 years?

Angelique wrote:Top dog

I award you "The Bravery Award" you are definitely a braver man than me!

Would do it again

Tokyo stocks initially opened 1.4% lower despite a pledge by Group of Seven financial chiefs and central bankers to cooperate for market stability.


The benchmark index of MSCI Asia Pacific stocks outside Japan fell
4.3% to the lowest since September 2010, with industrials and consumer
discretionary stocks underperforming the most.


Stocks in Indonesia and Singapore fell around 5% and other Southeast
Asian markets lost 2-3% because of concern about the global economic
outlook.


US stock futures were down 2.7%, suggesting Wall Street will open sharply lower, later today.


As trading continues for the first time since the unprecedented
downgrade, the Sky News Business team brings you live coverage of the
world's markets.