Another Abduction. Lisa Irwin, 10 months old

Police say the parents have stopped cooperating with them.

Don't think there was an abduction here.

we are tallking about thisin the not another mcann thread

Yes, this thread:
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t17120-oh-dear-another-mcann-case

Make no mistake no abductor will ever be found here.

The problem for the police will be proving anything if everyone keeps their traps shut.

thanks for merging threads!!!

Justiceforallkids wrote:thanks for merging threads!!!

You're welcome!

Panda wrote:I read about this case and apparently the Mother hadn"t checked on the baby for 5 hours so when the Dad came home and checked the baby was gone.

Don"t you think a 10 month old baby would cry for a feed after about 4 hours ? Apparently, where the Parents live it is a winding road which means it would be difficult for for neighbours to notice much .

No Panda that's a newborn baby, by 10 months old a baby would be sleeping probably 12 hours a night.

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-missing-babys-mother-fails-polygraph-test-20111008,0,346127.story

Having watched the mother of Lisa on this VIDEO I am almost convinced she has nohing to do with this abduction of baby Lisa.

Statistics Show Missouri Baby Unlikely to Be Taken by Stranger, as Authorities Probe Incident

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/09/statistics-show-missouri-baby-unlikely-to-be-taken-by-stranger-as-authorities/#ixzz1aLNKnUzvKANSAS CITY, Mo. –

Decades of statistics on infant abductions in the U.S. suggest one of the least likely scenarios in this week's disappearance of a Kansas City baby is that a stranger broke into her home and quietly snatched her from her crib.

But the numbers also lead national experts to believe that if 10-month-old Lisa Irwin were taken by an intruder in the middle of the night, as her parents told investigators, she is likely still alive.

Lisa's parents, Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, reported their daughter missing early Tuesday. Their relationship with investigators chilled late Thursday, when police said the parents had stopped cooperating. The couple quickly insisted they only needed a break from incessant police questioning.

On Saturday, the parents again met with detectives, Kansas City police spokesman Capt. Steve Young said. He called that a crucial development in the case in subsequent comments reported by The Kansas City Star.

"It's the best thing for everybody in trying to find this child," Young was quoted as saying. "We couldn't be happier about it." The couple also consented to additional searches of the house, he added.

He also said police had received hundreds of tips, reviewed the best of them, but had no breaks in the case.

Strangers who kidnap infants or young children, though rare, often do so because they want a child of their own, not because they intend to hurt or kill the child, said David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire.

"The recovery rate for infants is very, very high. There is real hope here," added Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Arlington, Va.

But the experts acknowledge that investigators often focus on close relatives when a baby goes missing, in part because statistics show that far more infants and young children are killed by a parent than a stranger.

"Suspicion almost always falls heavily on the parents, especially when it's young kids," Finkelhor said. "Fifteen hundred parents kill their kids every year, and that's heavily focused on the under 1 year of age category."

Allen said his organization has handled 278 infant abduction cases during his nearly three decades with the group. Only 13 cases involved a stranger coming into a home and taking a baby, and all but one of those children were recovered unharmed.

A day earlier, Bradley told The Associated Press that police had accused her of being involved in her daughter's disappearance, which she vehemently denies, and told her she failed a lie detector test. The couple told the AP police have treated them like suspects, and Bradley said detectives told her: "'You did it. You did it. And we have nothing.'"

Investigators said they have no solid leads or suspects despite an extensive search that has included hundreds of officers scouring the family's quiet Kansas City neighborhood, nearby woods and a landfill. Young said investigators with metal detectors were back at the family's home Saturday, but no new substantial leads have come in.

The baby's parents announced Saturday they were organizing a reward, hoping it would lead to new information, and that they'd be doing less media interviews.

Bradley has said she checked on her daughter around 10:30 p.m. Monday. Irwin, an electrician, said he discovered the child missing around 4 a.m. Tuesday when he got home from working a late-night shift, prompting a frantic search of their home.

But all they discovered was that many of the home's lights were on, a window was open and the front door was unlocked. The couple later said three cellphones also were missing, which police said produced no solid leads.

Allen and Finkelhor said that with little to go on, it's natural for investigators to turn their focus to Bradley, who was the last person to see her little girl before she went missing.

Finkelhor noted that in some cases, parents have concocted stories about a kidnapping after accidentally killing their child instead of facing the tragedy.

"Sometimes what happens when the parent was involved, the death wasn't intentional but involved a kind of serious negligence," he said. "The responsible parent is so ashamed and maybe ashamed toward the spouse that they decide to dispose of the body and then report it as a missing child."

But Allen cautioned against jumping to conclusions, despite the long odds against a stranger abduction.

"Once the spotlight focuses on parental wrongdoing, the public perception is this is a murder. The focus goes away from the little girl and goes to the parent," he said. "That's why in these situations, police are doing exactly what they should do, pursuing every lead ... If Lisa is out there, we need to do whatever we can to find her."


The problem for the McCanns is that is anyone who was considering abducting a child to keep as their own, would have clearly chosen one or both of the much younger, blonder, and less talkative twins as their new chlld-to-be.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/11/3200177/aunt-believes-mother-faces-arrest.html

Kansas City police denied a claim Tuesday that the mother of missing 10-month-old Lisa Irwin is preparing to be arrested and charged in connection with the child's disappearance.

Sgt. Stacey Graves with the Kansas City Police Department told FoxNews.com that, "We have heard nothing from detectives to lead us to believe an arrest is imminent."

The baby's aunt, Ashley Irwin, told ABC News that it was "inevitable" that Deborah Bradley, Lisa's mother, would be arrested as police were spending more time focused on the family, rather than finding suspects.

"It's what the police do," Irwin said early Tuesday. "They don't have any leads so they just have to pin it on somebody."

Graves, however, said police have "no suspects" and "are continuing the investigation until Lisa is found."

"We are still actively following up on leads and tips as they come in," she said.

The infant was last seen at 10:30 p.m. local time Oct. 3, asleep at her Kansas City home. She was reported missing at around 4:00 a.m. after her father returned home from work and noticed she was gone from her crib.

Police returned to the Irwin home Monday -- just a day after they staged a mock break-in at the property to try to re-create a possible kidnapping scenario -- and searched a drainage ditch in the backyard, The Kansas City Star reports.

Also, officers were reviewing from a nearby store video surveillance footage that apparently shows Bradley buying wine with an unknown man just hours before Lisa disappeared, according to Fox affiliate WDAF-TV.

Last week police said Irwin and Bradley stopped cooperating with the investigation, but by Saturday they were talking to officers again. Bradley also said that during questioning police accused her of having done something to her child and of failing a lie-detector test.

This is uncannily like the Madeleine case. Family members briefing press with their version, "dodgy men" seen in the vicinity - while the police soldier on in sreach of the truth.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/11/3201981/private-investigator-joins-lisa.html
Private investigator joins search for Lisa Irwin
A nationally known private investigator is now working with Lisa Irwin’s family to find the missing infant
“Wild Bill” Stanton, a former New York policeman
“I’m here to seek the truth,” Stanton told reporters late Tuesday. “And wherever the truth leads, that’s where I’m going to go.”
http://videos.kansascity.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=115570731&f=mokas
Perhaps the McCanns could let "Wild Bill" Stanton meet with supersleuths Dave 'grabbit' Edgar and Arthur 'leggit' Cowley ( have to invoice him tho! all money to the FUND, you understand) and have 'our Dave and Art' help him with a gem tip like 'she's deffo in a lair nearby just sitting and waiting there patiently for the last FOUR YEARS for us to find her'!

jeanmonroe wrote: Perhaps the McCanns could let "Wild Bill" Stanton meet with supersleuths Dave 'grabbit' Edgar and Arthur 'leggit' Cowley ( have to invoice him tho! all money to the FUND, you understand) and have 'our Dave and Art' help him with a gem tip like 'she's deffo in a lair nearby just sitting and waiting there patiently for the last FOUR YEARS for us to find her'!.

Maybe they could help 'Wild Bill' to devise a disguise as they themselves did whilst undercover.


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/124813/Exclusive-New-clues-lead-McCann-private-eyes-to-an-old-deserted-shack-/Exclusive-New-clues-lead-McCann-private-eyes-to-an-old-deserted-shack-Exclusive-New-clues-lead-McCann-private-eyes-to-an-old-deserted-shack-

Disguised as fruit pickers, detectives staked out the shack and secretly watched as Albino met up with Martins, a teacher.

Is'nt it strange that since the Scot Yard review was announced we have never heard anything from Dave and Arthur!!

Gerry, Kate and Mitchell yes, but no PI's (if there ever was any).

Lillyofthevalley wrote:Is'nt it strange that since the Scot Yard review was announced we have never heard anything from Dave and Arthur!!

Gerry, Kate and Mitchell yes, but no PI's (if there ever was any).

Didn't Arthur retire recently saying he was in poor health? He also said that the would protect anything Kate had told him or something like that.

Lets hope SY ask to go through Dave Edgar's files...all 3 pages

Arthur Cowley has resigned last year and Alphaig Ltd is in voluntary liquidation as of 1.7.11 (with a tangible asset value of a massive £630). He did apparently also say that he will take Kate McCanns secret to the grave.

Dave Edgar is not involved anymore either. The McCcanns have a new trio of detectives.

Cannot post a link as not been a member for 7 days yet but blurb is below and is from Daily Mail 3rd October 2010

Madeleine McCann disappearance flat still has no buyer after two years

"Meanwhile a new private investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance has begun in Portugal.
It is being run by three British former police officers: Nigel Brown, who was named Investigator of the Year after securing the rescue of a kidnapped oil company executive, Dave Carter, who worked in Northern Ireland, and Ray Cooper, who investigated war crimes in Bosnia and gang murders in Trinidad and Tobago.

gillyspot wrote:Arthur Cowley has resigned last year and Alphaig Ltd is in voluntary liquidation as of 1.7.11 (with a tangible asset value of a massive £630). He did apparently also say that he will take Kate McCanns secret to the grave.

Dave Edgar is not involved anymore either. The McCcanns have a new trio of detectives.

Cannot post a link as not been a member for 7 days yet but blurb is below and is from Daily Mail 3rd October 2010

Madeleine McCann disappearance flat still has no buyer after two years

"Meanwhile a new private investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance has begun in Portugal.
It is being run by three British former police officers: Nigel Brown, who was named Investigator of the Year after securing the rescue of a kidnapped oil company executive, Dave Carter, who worked in Northern Ireland, and Ray Cooper, who investigated war crimes in Bosnia and gang murders in Trinidad and Tobago.

Thanks for that gillyspot. Didn't realise Edgar 'The Suit', had gone!

gillyspot wrote:Arthur Cowley has resigned last year and Alphaig Ltd is in voluntary liquidation as of 1.7.11 (with a tangible asset value of a massive £630). He did apparently also say that he will take Kate McCanns secret to the grave.

Dave Edgar is not involved anymore either. The McCcanns have a new trio of detectives.

What secret? Why only Kates secret? I hope SY get hold of him soon then.....

So that's the poor father of the church with a secret who felt 'betrayed' and now this.

The new detectives haven't been very active, are the three wise monkeys 'see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil' ? Here they are investigating the tapas bars kitchen.

"They (mccann defectives) grew suspicious when they allegedly saw Martins, who also has no young children, looking at shoes for a little girl."

Perhaps 'Grabbit and Leggit' AKA as Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley could tell WILD BILL to stake out Stead and Simpson shoe shop in the high street! Where my brother, who has NO CHILDREN of his own, was seen looking at shoes for my daughters daughter, for a crimbo present!

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-wild-bill-stanton-who-is-bill-stanton-20111013,0,3249306.story

Well i, for one, will not be calling WILD BILL anytime soon! lol.
"as a detective he still couldn't find a black person in Harlem"
He could call Clarrie, and tell the Pink one that he (Bill) IS the real deal and the gloves will be off!
£300,000 ought to secure his services!
And no, he dosen't know Kevin Halligen! lol.
Do you think he could help me if i lost my mind?

Didn't the mccanns ever volunteer to do a lie detector test..that would be great to see on jeremy kyle

seriously though,they should of taken the test to shut up all the unbelievers so we could ALL concentrate on bringing maddie home & not blaming the loving parents & bestest friends

Lisa irwins mum, having failed the test has credibility as she volunteered to take it,im guessing so in her mind the police could concentrate on one less suspect,but she failed for whatever reason .....of course a guilty person could offer to do this as some kind of bluff....just why would a guilty person offer to incriminate themselves....driven by survival,its a fight for their lives

Hopefully there is a happy outcome in lisa's case

jeanmonroe wrote:http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44798732/ns/today-today_people/

>> reporter: ann, good morning to you. the mystery just keeps deepening here in kansas city , missouri . nbc news has learned that when jeremy irwin , lisa irwin 's father, returned home monday night/tuesday morning he found not just his daughter missing from her crib, he also found three cell phones were missing from the family's home. last night investigators scanned the area. they canvassed it, stopping every car that came through here looking for any evidence of their missing daughter. at the same time, jeremy irwin met with federal authorities providing the names of nine individuals that the family thought may have had something to do with their daughter's abduction. so far, no suspects and no strong leads. as investigators re-examined the irwin family home, a tearful public plea for the distraught parents of 10-month-old baby lisa .

>> reporter: deborah bradley and jeremy irwin , mom holding her daughter's favorite stuffed animal , begged whoever has lisa to return her safely.

>> reporter: with the irwin family's consent investigators in sterile suits to avoid contaminating the scene again searched the home. one focal point -- this window without a screen. law enforcement officials appear baffled at who could have climbed into the home, walked down the hall, snatched the baby, and then slipped out. late wednesday i spoke to jeremy irwin 's parents, baby lisa 's grandparents.
>> she's a beautiful baby. she's full of life, laughter, and love.
>> reporter: then i asked a difficult question that haunts every missing child case. is there any way in the world that your son or your daughter-in-law could have had anything to do with this?
>> absolutely not. they're kind, loving, wonderful parents. and that baby is everything to them.

>> and i know the detectives have been at your home and they've taken away bags of what i understand are considered evidence. do you know what they're looking for, what they took from your home?
>> no. we don't have any idea.
>> you know, you heard in this story that we just ran that in addition to the pain of missing your daughter, you're also being asked by police some tough questions because in their effort they sort of need to leave no stone unturned, so what do you have to say about their effort to even question you about whether you know something about your daughter's disappearance? jeremy , do you want to take that question?
>> we were down at the police station for most of the day the other day and just going over everything and making sure that we've got all the information that we have and giving them everything we can time and time again, so hopefully something can bring her home.
>> do you want to say anything about this question that they're asking even you about whether you had anything to do with your daughter's disappearance?
>> no, obviously we don't know where she is or who took her. we just need her back.

A window without a screen has drawn scrutiny as a possible entry point, but investigators are puzzled about how someone could have entered through the window, walked all the way down the hall, snatched the baby and slipped out undetected.
___________________________________________

I couldn't help noticing how Sky FORGOT to mention that the mother was holding her daughter's favorite stuffed animal when appealing.
And also how investigators appear BAFFLED and PUZZLED about the window part of the story.

ETA. If all true hope she ( baby) gets back home safely.

Oh..kaaay . Just commenting after reading this quote, so I apologise if I've totally misread the situation by the time I read to the end of this thread. However, nothing about this rings true, apart from the fact that this baby is missing. Reading the initial thread, it struck me as odd that you would put a 10 month baby to bed at 10.30pm, and not know what was happening to them until 3.30am. Then, to find out that three phones were missing. The abductor would have to have felt comfortable enough to go around gathering them up, whilst carrying out the abduction. And how on earth could you possibly know nine individuals who you suspect may have been a part of this? They must move in some strange circles.

I find it really strange that the UK media is largely ignoring this. Are they making comparisons too?

The Daily Mail did have an article on Wed 12/10 with 12 comments mostly from USA. Probably all the UK comments were too 'hot to handle'. Considering they also ignored the Casey Anthony case this is no surprise.

It speaks volumes to me that the McCanns have not issued a statement saying that they are thinkiing of the Irwin family and praying for their daughter's safe return. Sadly there are so few cases like this where anyone outside of the family is involved, something which no doubt the McCanns know.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44927779/ns/today-today_people/t/baby-lisas-mom-i-was-drunk-when-she-vanished/from/toolbar#.TpwcK96IkkE

Baby Lisa’s mom: I was drunk when she vanished
Deborah Bradley fears: ‘If they arrest me, people are going to stop looking for her’

In the latest twist in the case of a missing Kansas City infant, the child’s mother admitted that she was drunk on the night of her baby’s disappearance and expects to be arrested.

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Breaking a nine-day silence, Deborah Bradley, the mother of missing 10-month-old Lisa Irwin, told NBC News about her behavior on the night Baby Lisa’s disappearance and her fear of possibly being arrested given the nature of the latest questioning by investigators.

“Judging on how the questioning went, that’s kind of the fear that I have,’’ Bradley told NBC’s Peter Alexander in an exclusive interview alongside the baby’s father, Jeremy Irwin, that aired on TODAY Monday. “The main fear is that if they arrest me, people are going to stop looking, and I’ll never see her again, and I’ll never know what happened.’’
Video: Missing baby’s parents: ‘We just need her back‘ (on this page)

A surveillance video from a local market on the day of the baby’s disappearance showed Bradley purchasing boxed wine as well as baby supplies shortly before 5 p.m. Bradley admitted to drinking “enough to be drunk’’ that night, which led to the question of whether she could have harmed her own child under the influence of alcohol.

“No, no, no,’’ she said. “If I thought there was a chance, I’d say it. I don’t think that alcohol changes a person enough to do something like that.’’

Changed timeline
Nearly two weeks after her child was reported missing on Oct. 4, Bradley also has changed her story about when she last saw baby Lisa. She now says the last time she saw her daughter was at 6:40 p.m. on the night of her disappearance, nearly four hours earlier than the time of 10:30 p.m. that she originally told police. Irwin, the child’s father, was asked if he believed there was anything that Bradley was withholding from the police in light of this change in her story.
Image: Baby Lisa Irwin
Kansas City Police
Baby Lisa Irwin has been missing since Oct. 4.

“No, there’s no question to be had there,’’ Irwin replied. “I know the kind of mother she is, and I know what kind of person she is in general.’’

Police have accused Bradley of killing her daughter, she said. The family is expected to announce later on Monday that it has retained an attorney.

“The last thing I want to have to worry about is something like that,’’ Bradley said. “I shouldn’t have to put any energy, any time or effort into anything but finding her.’’
Story: Cistern search yields no sign of missing Mo. baby

Bradley has also admitted to failing a police-administered lie detector test.
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“They said that I failed when they asked me where she was (and) if I knew where she was,’’ Bradley said.

The night of the child’s disappearance also marked the first time that Irwin worked a night shift as an electrician. He said that when he returned home at 4 a.m., he found the front door unlocked with several lights on and a window screen tampered with. Police have tried to recreate how the baby might have been abducted by an intruder entering through that window.

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“Our bedroom is on the exact opposite corner of the house, and (Bradley) sleeps with the fan on high,’’ Irwin said.

“Yeah, they (the intruders) must have been doing it much quieter than police,’’ Bradley added.

The couple has refused to let investigators re-interview Baby Lisa’s 8- and 5-year-old half-brothers, who were in the house at the time of the child’s disappearance.
Video: Missing baby Lisa: What are police doing? (on this page)

“They said they heard noises, but I don’t know if that was before they went to sleep or after,’’ Bradley said about her two sons. “I have not sat down and talked to them about it, specifically to not have to put them through anything else.’’

With police still producing no suspects in the case, 25 members of the Missouri National Guard joined the search on Saturday. Police also searched a nearby abandoned house after receiving a tip about a backpack and diapers inside, but investigators said the items were in the house longer than two weeks.
Video: Mom of missing baby Lisa admits drinking (on this page)

Police have also questioned a local handyman with a criminal past but have not made him a suspect in the case. A wealthy benefactor has put up a $100,000 reward for any information that leads to Baby Lisa’s safe return. Hundreds of tips have poured in from as far away as England and Barbados, but still no concrete leads.

“Please think of Lisa,’’ Bradley said. “She needs her family, and they need her.’’

chrissie wrote:

Deborah Bradley fears: ‘If they arrest me, people are going to stop looking for her’

“Please think of Lisa,’’ Bradley said. “She needs her family, and they need her.’’

Both of those quotes have been uttered by the McCanns.

Not looking good is it?