Was it a Pre-Planned HOAX?

A List of Strange things that may point to a Pre-Planned Hoax


1. Gerry said on airport bus that he wasn't there to enjoy himself


2. Speed and professionalism of the Fund/website being set up


3. 2006 seen on website when Maddie went missing in 2007


4. Naming Fund after a police forensic manual "No stone unturned"


5. John McCann gave up well-paid job despite having house, wife and kids to support


6. The last photo of Maddie believed to be fake


7. Kate's strange diary


8. Gerry's strange blog


9. Disregarding police advice about releasing information about Maddie's eye


10. Trademark, marketing ploy


11. Twins left in unlocked apartment after Kate raised alarm


12. Twins left in creche during aftermath while they went fundraising


13. Smiling and smirking


14. Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppenceworth


15. Well it was our holiday too


16. Staged walks, jogging, globetrotting, not searching


17. Gerry planning events months ahead


18. No evidence of abduction


19. No jemmied window


20. Gerry alleged to have dumped Fridge, reference removed from his blog


21. Amaral believed Maddie's corpse was frozen or refrigerated


22. Curtains washed, sofa moved, no sheets on twins' cots


23. Rotting meat, dirty nappies transported in hire car


24. Lies and inconsistencies, changing statements/stories


25. Tearing Maddie's book to write timeline before police arrived


26. Deleting text messages and phone records the night Maddie disappeared


27. Phoning Sky before phoning police


28, Gerry having presence of mind to update his Friends Reunited profile to remove babysitting reference


29. Washing Cuddlecat and using it as a prop for staged photoshoots then dumping it once back in the UK


30. Framing Robert Murat


31. The Wider Agenda flipchart


32. The excessive mileage on the hire car


33. Blood/marks on walls and floor behind sofa


34. Cadaver scent in apartment and car and on Kate and Maddie's clothes


35. David Payne and Gerry's alleged 'paedophilic' conversation reported to police by Dr Gaspar


36. David Payne's alleged 'bathtime' visits


37. Jon Corner's strange remark about Maddie's special quality and charisma


38. Ward of Court


39. Question 41: Is it true that in England you considered giving up Madeleine's guardianship


40. Claiming to be devout Catholics which was denied by Kate's mother


Sedatives mystery


Not answering 48 police questions


Not going back to Portugal to do the reconstruction


Refusing to take lie detector test


Excuses made for evidence found


Discrediting sniffer dogs


Not requesting the re-opening of the case before the deadline on 20 September 2008


Not taking Amaral's advice and making a formal request to the British police to find Maddie, despite their insistence that she is still alive


Mr Amaral removed from investigation


Mr Amaral's dog killed with serious head injury


Sergey Malinka's car torched




http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2651-a-few-oddities

I see there has been 100 views of this first post but not a comment, how odd.
Re pre planned. I don't know about that Autumn, though some points would certainly either show ready prepared strategy or they were clear minded and knowledgable to get right off the starting blocks.
One thing for me though is that this simple bullet point list certainly puts my aged brain in gear so thankyou for that.

I did wonder that at one time, had she been re-homed with another family, was it pre-planned that she would be taken that night hence the 'they have taken her ' comment from Kate, then you get to the dogs. Dogs dont lie, the only way for them to indicate how the way did was for cadver odour to be 'placed' where the dogs indicated but that would require one hell of a pre thought out plan and a lot of fore thought as to where to place the odour so it looked convincing. The planting of odour had to be continued when they had the hire car and that seems just a bit too much for it to have been planned. For the planting to have an option it would mean that this would have to have been arranged before hand so that you could have cavader odour to plant, I'm sure its not the sort of stuff you can get from a chemist or e-bay. Planting of blood is an easier thing to do as we all have it and a quick smack on the nose will produce lots of it. If you clean up then any traces left will be enough to indicate family but if you dont have enough or its contaminated it might not be enough to identify an individual, i.e not enough markers. If it had been pre-planned then the time line would be logical and linear within a degree of error, not the hotch poch as described by all concerned i.e I saw them they didnt see me, etc, oh and you would not need to scribble it on the back of a book. To me thats fag packet engineering where scribble ideas down on your fag packet making plans up as you go along.

So all in all I dont think its a pre-planned event. but then again I could be wrong and weve all been had.

2006 seen on website when Maddie went missing in 2007

that was just the date on the website template I think. If it had been pre-planned they'd have done a better job of it, windows jemmied/not jemmied etc.

Good points ann_covey. I don't think it was pre-planned, just a botched swift cover up.

Well done, Autumn. That's a good list to remind everyone what the police are up against. We have testimonies from doctors who sound like gibbering idiots, just to muddy the water.

Whether it was preplanned , I don't know but certain things do point in that direction re the planning of a website, a Fund, LTD company being started in double quick time. The website was poorly done, probably for peanuts and a huge figure quoted in the accounts. Future activities certainly gave the impression that Gerry knew that Madeleine would never be found. The focus has always been on The Fund and certainly not serious searching.

There doesn't seem to be much independent evidence which is slowing things up. I just hope GA finally pulls out some irrefutable evidence out of his hat at some future trial.

chrissie wrote:Good points ann_covey. I don't think it was pre-planned, just a botched swift cover up.

I agree, chrissie. I think if it had been pre-planned it would have gone much more smoothly.

AnnaEsse wrote:

chrissie wrote:Good points ann_covey. I don't think it was pre-planned, just a botched swift cover up.

I agree, chrissie. I think if it had been pre-planned it would have gone much more smoothly.

They are not doing bad though. Four plus years on and still coining it in and fooling many. I do hope that February 2012 will see them faltering.

Bobsy wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

chrissie wrote:Good points ann_covey. I don't think it was pre-planned, just a botched swift cover up.

I agree, chrissie. I think if it had been pre-planned it would have gone much more smoothly.

They are not doing bad though. Four plus years on and still coining it in and fooling many. I do hope that February 2012 will see them faltering.

Beats me how they've managed it, Bobsy, but manage it they have, for four years. Like you, I'm hoping that things will change. I think they'll crack up if they have to take the stand in a court of law.

I have questioned this befor, only because of the protection the Mcs seem to have had, but I'm sure if it was a hoax it wouldn't been allowed to get so out of control, we would have all been shut up years ago.

So No I dont believe it is a Hoax, but I do believe its protection from high up, for what reason I do not know, but the Scot Yard review will prove just how protected they really are, but I just can't understand why they just can not shut up and stop courting all this BAD PUBLICITY, hopefully Mr A will start the ball rolling, by getting them to answer question in court in Feb 12, because Maddy isn't going to get any help from Scot Yard or Cameron.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Bobsy wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

chrissie wrote:Good points ann_covey. I don't think it was pre-planned, just a botched swift cover up.

I agree, chrissie. I think if it had been pre-planned it would have gone much more smoothly.

They are not doing bad though. Four plus years on and still coining it in and fooling many. I do hope that February 2012 will see them faltering.

Beats me how they've managed it, Bobsy, but manage it they have, for four years. Like you, I'm hoping that things will change. I think they'll crack up if they have to take the stand in a court of law.

AnnaEsse, hi, imo they have managed it because of the level of support they have had, the money they have made, I would feel good eating strawberries from M&S as Kate does. No seriously it is support, money, and also I do really believe that they have convinced themselves they are quite innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever. Having said all that they would not want to take the stand, afterall they cannot vet the questions and if there is a hint of stand taking they will be .

I have always thought it was planned, but only by the McCanns, that's why it wasn't done very well, I also don't think all the Tapas were totally in on the event, they were backing them for reasons they thought good at the time. I expect some of them wish they'd never been there.
I also think that Maddie was always a sickly child, her medical records were withheld. It could have been a matter of 'letting is happen' e.g. not checking whether the dose of medicine had been too strong. Coming back too late to resuscitate, that sort of thing.

The link below is interesting.
I've read somewhere else that another 'marketing ploy' would be useful at a later date: e.g. a child who had been chipped because he/she has diabetes. This child will be lost and found thanks to the microchip. It should get quite a lot of people on board.

http://thedisclosureproject-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/06/agenda-microchip-one-generation-is-all.html


At this juncture, an unfortunately common tragedy of modern life will occur: A small child, likely a photogenic toddler, will be murdered or horrifically abused. It will happen in one of the media capitals of the Western world, thereby ensuring non-stop breathless coverage. Chip manufactures will recognize this as the opportunity they have been anticipating for years. With their technology now largely bug-free, familiar to most citizens and comparatively inexpensive, manufacturers will partner with the police to launch a high-profile campaign encouraging parents to implant their children "to ensure your own peace of mind."

I've read all the reasons suggested by those who believe that it was pre-planned before the holiday. To-date I don't find anything thus far that has swayed my opinion. Not knocking others for their views, just saying I am still of the belief that a fatal accident occurred following sedation and the parents hid the body. I also believe Mr Smith saw Mr McCann on that fateful night in a state of panic, carrying Maddie either to another apartment or some other location.

I had alwayd read Gerry's


as being a truncated reflection of his true sentiment

Autumn wrote:A List of Strange things that may point to a Pre-Planned Hoax


Gerry said on airport bus that he wasn't there to enjoy himself


Speed and professionalism of the Fund/website being set up


2006 seen on website when Maddie went missing in 2007


Naming Fund after a police forensic manual "No stone unturned"


John McCann gave up well-paid job despite having house, wife and kids to support


The last photo of Maddie believed to be fake


Kate's strange diary


Gerry's strange blog


Disregarding police advice about releasing information about Maddie's eye


Trademark, marketing ploy


Twins left in unlocked apartment after Kate raised alarm


Twins left in creche during aftermath while they went fundraising


Smiling and smirking


Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppenceworth


Well it was our holiday too


Staged walks, jogging, globetrotting, not searching


Gerry planning events months ahead


No evidence of abduction


No jemmied window


Gerry alleged to have dumped Fridge, reference removed from his blog


Amaral believed Maddie's corpse was frozen or refrigerated


Curtains washed, sofa moved, no sheets on twins' cots


Rotting meat, dirty nappies transported in hire car


Lies and inconsistencies, changing statements/stories


Tearing Maddie's book to write timeline before police arrived


Deleting text messages and phone records the night Maddie disappeared


Phoning Sky before phoning police


Gerry having presence of mind to update his Friends Reunited profile to remove babysitting reference


Washing Cuddlecat and using it as a prop for staged photoshoots then dumping it once back in the UK


Framing Robert Murat


The Wider Agenda flipchart


The excessive mileage on the hire car


Blood/marks on walls and floor behind sofa


Cadaver scent in apartment and car and on Kate and Maddie's clothes


David Payne and Gerry's alleged 'paedophilic' conversation reported to police by Dr Gaspar


David Payne's alleged 'bathtime' visits


Jon Corner's strange remark about Maddie's special quality and charisma


Ward of Court


Question 41: Is it true that in England you considered giving up Madeleine's guardianship


Claiming to be devout Catholics which was denied by Kate's mother


Sedatives mystery


Not answering 48 police questions


Not going back to Portugal to do the reconstruction


Refusing to take lie detector test


Excuses made for evidence found


Discrediting sniffer dogs


Not requesting the re-opening of the case before the deadline on 20 September 2008


Not taking Amaral's advice and making a formal request to the British police to find Maddie, despite their insistence that she is still alive


Mr Amaral removed from investigation


Mr Amaral's dog killed with serious head injury


Sergey Malinka's car torched




http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2651-a-few-oddities

Some times I really think so.

Amber

It's a long list and doubtless there are plenty more you could add.

Do I think it was pre-planned hoax.

To a certain extent it must have been - pre-planned I mean. But not a hoax because of the dogs evidence and blood on the wall and floor. But that I mean it didn't happen when the alarm was raised - possibly earlier in the day - earlier than when GA believes (Payne's supposed sighting initially 5 p.m.). There had to be time to initiate all that had to be done. As soon as they could they got legal teams and crisis management on board who then controlled completely what was said and done.

I dont believe it is a hoax, but pre planned yes !
I believe the poor child met her demise earlier in the holiday than the 3rd.
Then the pre planning kicked in, hence the botched abduction.
Not enough time to plan it efficiently, but then didnt Gerry also say
"confusion is good"
Sorry for being naive folks, but what is happening in Feb 2012 that other poster have mentioned ?

NoStone wrote:I had alwayd read Gerry's

-not here to f**ing enjoy myself -

as being a truncated reflection of his true sentiment

- not here to F**ing enjoy ourselves because we have the F**ing kids with us!

I totally agree.

I don't believe they pre-planned anything. I will always believe Madeleine died on that holiday and they covered it up and set up the fund ASAP to take suspicion off themselves from the off.

I don't think they even contemplated how much they would get at the time but I think they were delighted when the money started pouring in as it was PROOF to them that they were getting away with it.

ann_chovey wrote:
2006 seen on website when Maddie went missing in 2007

that was just the date on the website template I think. If it had been pre-planned they'd have done a better job of it, windows jemmied/not jemmied etc.

This has been debunked many, many times, as Autumn should know. It was discussed to the death on Havern's.

There's more than enough circumstantial evidence to make a decision without having to big it up. It's not helpful.

I was at one time intrigued about the date on some pages but it is possible to establish when a website was set up and in this case it was 10th May 2007.

I have already explained it, in great detail, on many different forums, many many times and I'm buggered if I'm going to waste my time doing it again.

NoStone wrote:I had alwayd read Gerry's

-not here to f**ing enjoy myself -

as being a truncated reflection of his true sentiment

- not here to F**ing enjoy ourselves because we have the F**ing kids with us!

Yes Gerry wasn't happy at all that "The Kids" were tagging along on the holiday, remember it was their holiday to get into their friends, imo no hoax, but accident accuring from to much alcohol, Gerry chating up buxom Quiz Lady, Kate furious, massive argument, Maddy wakes from her (helped by a sedative) deep sleep because of the shouting gets involved ends up getting right inbetween the "fight" ....accident accurs problem is!!!! if Maddy has got sedatives in her system then they are unable to call for emergency help.....

This in my opinion and my opinion only!!!!!!

Iris I dont go on Havern site, so to me this is very interesting to discuss, the more the better imo.

duncanmac wrote:Sorry for being naive folks, but what is happening in Feb 2012 that other poster have mentioned ?

Is it the Amaral libel trial?

Sorry, I was speaking about the website.

I do think that Mr Gerry was in a huff and "not there to enjoy himself" because Mrs Kate had just made it clear to him that he was going to be helping with the kids.

Still says a lot that the others just laughed or ignored it, I know that Mr Iris woiuld have told him sharpish to watch his language in front of the wee ones.

Iris wrote:Sorry, I was speaking about the website.

I do think that Mr Gerry was in a huff and "not there to enjoy himself" because Mrs Kate had just made it clear to him that he was going to be helping with the kids.

Still says a lot that the others just laughed or ignored it, I know that Mr Iris woiuld have told him sharpish to watch his language in front of the wee ones.

There are many reasons Gerry could have had for saying he was 'not there to enjoy himself'. Maybe he had some business to attend to and would be working some of the time. Hiis casual use of the 'F' word infront of young children says a lot about Gerry's personality and attitude to them....perhaps understandable if he had said it in an outburst of temper. He was in control of himself when he said it which tells me he probably swears a lot around the kids.


The questions about the airbus footage remain;

Which one of the tapas bunch posted it up on you-tube?

Why post something up that would show Gerry in a bad light - was that the reason?