Re: The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 11:36

tyra wrote:
Schnuffel wrote:
tyra wrote:Great news but also horrific details to emerge, she had two daughters with this monster, the first one when she was 13, it's just amazing, the family must have gone through hell, the stepfather saw the abduction happen but was suspected for ages, there has been lots of malicious chatter on the internet (as usually happens with these emotive cases).

Just a note trya. There are two alleged monsters in this case so lets not be sexist

There is nothing sexist about stating that the rumour is that this monster impregnated her, unless you are suggesting without any evidence to support it that the woman did it.

Good grief.

No trya I stating the very real fact that Nancy Garrido has also been charged with the 'forcible rape' of Jaycee Lee Dugard which in most people's opinion is just as MONSTEROUS as the man in this case impregnating her. Women have no more of a right or excuse to "forcibly rape" children than men do, do they? I, like most people, would be very concerned if you thought otherwise trya.

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 11:38

jassi wrote:It does make you wonder why O'Brien was missing that day - perhaps he was doing the collective childminding

Hello jassi, Lol. The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 294124

Thanks for making me smile. All best wishes Rose xx

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 11:41

jassi wrote:It does make you wonder why O'Brien was missing that day - perhaps he was doing the collective childminding

Hello jassi, Lol. The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 294124

Thanks for the smile. All best wishes Rose xx

**kitti** Sun 30 Aug - 11:43

Nellie wrote:
halfamo wrote:
Nellie wrote:
Finmental wrote:
tyra wrote:I agree, it's only a shame that the portuguese police had no interest in running a reconstruction as some sort of first step, both recorded and witnessed. instead they waited nearly a year until all trails had gone cold and then decided they would try and pin it on the parents and asked them and their friends to come back for a reconstruction only involving them, as if that it supposed to help find her!

baffling.

That's one interpretation but there are others.

I don't see how. What could they have discovered with no other witnesses involved? That is the whole point of a reconstruction. I suspect that a reconstruction was suggested at that late stage to cover the original BooBoo made by Amaral when he refused to allow one.

If thats the case why not turn up ,but for some reason the Mcs refused.

Your right the mccanns DIDNT refuse but they made damned sure that the rest off the tapas lot didnt do it so they knew full well if they refused the reconstruction couldnt go ahead.

The McCanns did not refuse.

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 11:50

tyra wrote:Once you provide me with evidence that she impregnated Jaycee (which was what I was talking about in my post) then you might have a point.

So what are your trying to insist here trya? Are you trying to insist that in your opinion impregnating a child is far more of a worse crime than forcibly raping a child because only a male is physically capable of impregnate a child? The rape of any child in ANY circumstance is a MONSTEROUS crime whether the child was impregnated or not trya because NOBODY (male or female) has the right to rape a child whether impregnation took place or not.

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 12:01

Hello All, Sorry for the double post, I've tried to erase one of them but it's not working. All best wishes Rose xx The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 Icon_flower

Ps. Sorry for any interuption to the thread also.

**Alpine Aster** Sun 30 Aug - 12:18

String wrote:I bet there were thousands who were convinced Jaycee's parents were involved in her disapperance as well. Unfortunately for people who think like that, they were shown up to be the callous, mocking, damaged people that they are.

Did the cadaver dog mark in the Parent's house.....No
Did the blood dog that only detects Human blood mark in their House....No

Would People connected to the McCann's their friend's do an Official Police reconstruction.....No
Their words do not meet thier action's "we will do anything to help find Madeleine"...yet they would not help with an Official Police reconstruction!!!!.
Yet some of their friend's took part in a TV Documentary done by the McCann's about their own version of event's.

There has been so many Cases were the Relatives of a missing person/child have been on Television faking the tear's etc....yet they have turned out to be the guilty party in that disappearance or Murder.

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 12:24

Seneca wrote:Pls don't tell me what i think or feel - or send youtubes or articles. Speak for yourself. I can read the news without a forum - also, you may want to avoid hypocrisy in other posts.

Hypocracy? The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 23324

My so called hypocrisy is no match for your denial Seneca.

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 12:55

With reference to whether it was the Mc Canns or their friends who were reluctant to return to Portugal for an official Police reconstruction,' Navy Blue ' posted a link to a very interesting article on the previous page to this one; it is a very interesting article so you may like to read it as it is about this subject. This is the link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2038823/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-will-not-return-to-Portugal-for-Madeleine-reconstruction.html I hope the link works, if it doesn't either copy and paste it into your browser or type it in by hand that's what I did I'm not very good at copy and pasting.lol. Thankyou for the link ' navy blue ' it is a very interesting article. All best wishes Rose xx The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 Icon_flower

**Alpine Aster** Sun 30 Aug - 13:01

Seneca wrote:
Alpine Aster wrote:
String wrote:I bet there were thousands who were convinced Jaycee's parents were involved in her disapperance as well. Unfortunately for people who think like that, they were shown up to be the callous, mocking, damaged people that they are.

Did the cadaver dog mark in the Parent's house.....No
Did the blood dog that only detects Human blood mark in their House....No

.

Or their car, that they rented 23 days after they reported Madeleine missing.
The McCanns ignore the dogs which i don't understand. So does the media and the rest of TM.

Yes and the car ...which could have been cross contamination from articles that came into contact with Madeleine and this is what the cadaver dog marked...also the same with the keyfob, clothes.

Team McCann have to ignore it...because what the Cadaver dog marked in 5A and the car is saying someone died in 5A and the marking in the car...the dogs.

A child is missing gone vanished into thin air no one has died in 5A before it was checked out thoroughly.... Team McCann have to ignore the dog's and say Madeleine is out there and no harm has come to her...Team McCann have rubbished these great dogs they have too...they have to keep their pretence up that a Swarthy abductor took Madeleine...

The Stage was set for 10pm on the 3rd of May Act 1 and they have been acting ever since...one day we will see the final curtain fall on this Play and there will be no applause just sadness and perhaps a lot of anger...that People deliberately lied about a little girl that met her demise in 5A.

**Alpine Aster** Sun 30 Aug - 13:39

Seneca wrote:
Alpine Aster wrote:
Seneca wrote:
Alpine Aster wrote:
String wrote:I bet there were thousands who were convinced Jaycee's parents were involved in her disapperance as well. Unfortunately for people who think like that, they were shown up to be the callous, mocking, damaged people that they are.

Did the cadaver dog mark in the Parent's house.....No
Did the blood dog that only detects Human blood mark in their House....No

.

Or their car, that they rented 23 days after they reported Madeleine missing.
The McCanns ignore the dogs which i don't understand. So does the media and the rest of TM.

Yes and the car ...which could have been cross contamination from articles that came into contact with Madeleine .

Only a dead Madeleine, though, as it was a cadaver dog. That's why the McCs' innocent explanation of sweaty sandals, unwashed pjs, doesn't work.

Yes that is what I meant a demised Madeleine....articles could have been in contact with Madeleine and that is what was placed in the car.....and this is what the cadaver dog marked.....Madeleine did not have to be in the car in the Human form at all....but articles that had been directly in contact with her after she met her demise could have...perhaps when they moved to the Villa or they were being disposed of.

Cadaver dogs (Eddie) specialises in crime scenes...old cases...small scent sources....and residual scent..... cadaver Dog's trained to the following EXCLUDE the following.... fresh human scent...faeces...urine...semen...and all animal scents...so as for dirty nappies and meat being in the back of the car...it does not follow with the excuses the McCann's have made.

From Martin Grimes Rog Interview about Keela the blood dog below.

“Taking into account the signals of CSI, could the dog alert to other biological fluids?”
The dog that alerts to human blood is trained exclusively for this purpose, and includes its components, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. Given the nature of the training, the dog will not alert to urine, saliva, semen sweat, nasal secretion, vaginal secretion or human skin unless these are mixed with blood. The components of blood are approximately:
Red cells 40-50%
Plasma 55% (of which 95% is water)
White cells
Platelets
DNA can only be removed from white cells.
This would suggest that, of the samples signalled by the dog looking for human blood, approximately 5% are available for DNA tests.
end.

So Keela was not marking dirty nappies or sweat....

**halfamo** Sun 30 Aug - 14:35

[quote="Alpine Aster"][quote="Seneca"]

Alpine Aster wrote:
String wrote:I bet there were thousands who were convinced Jaycee's parents were involved in her disapperance as well. Unfortunately for people who think like that, they were shown up to be the callous, mocking, damaged people that they are.

Did the cadaver dog mark in the Parent's house.....No
Did the blood dog that only detects Human blood mark in their House....No

.[/quote

Yes and the car ...which could have been cross contamination from articles that came into contact with Madeleine and this is what the cadaver dog marked...also the same with the keyfob, clothes.

Team McCann have to ignore it...because what the Cadaver dog marked in 5A and the car is saying someone died in 5A and the marking in the car...the dogs.

A child is missing gone vanished into thin air no one has died in 5A before it was checked out thoroughly.... Team McCann have to ignore the dog's and say Madeleine is out there and no harm has come to her...Team McCann have rubbished these great dogs they have too...they have to keep their pretence up that a Swarthy abductor took Madeleine...

The Stage was set for 10pm on the 3rd of May Act 1 and they have been acting ever since...one day we will see the final curtain fall on this Play and there will be no applause just sadness and perhaps a lot of anger...that People deliberately lied about a little girl that met her demise in 5A.

A great post Alpine.Aster echoing what a lot of us feel about this case.Mo

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 15:20

Hello Pussycat, I agree with you that reading the article, especially now after some time has passed since it was written does indeed prove illuminating. Regards to your query on the friends reluctance to go back for fear of being arrested, I don't know whether my memory serves me correctly but I beleive there was an article written in a NEWSPAPER at the time from either an interview with Clarence Mitchell or a press release from Clarence Mitchell that fed the publication of the article in question. I can't definitely say whether the article implied this or whether it was stated in the article or whether it was just an interpretation of the article in one of the many forum posts at the time but if you place your question into Google you may find the article or at least some views on the matter. I'm fairly certain that there will be other posters on here who will have more definite facts about this matter than myself, perhaps they will be able to be of more help to you with this question. Best wishes Rose xx

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 16:44

TONS of detail re: Jaycee's nightmare:

From The Sunday Times

August 30, 2009

Inside Jaycee Lee Dugard's secret garden

New evidence poses further questions about the captivity of girl taken from her home in Antioch, east of San Francisco

The nine-year-old boy was quite taken with the blonde girl he spotted across the wire fence that separated their bungalows.

He had not seen her before and thought she was pretty, even if she was an inch taller than him. She told him she was living there and her name was Jaycee.

Moments later a tall, forbidding man appeared, grabbed the girl by her arm and bundled her away. Later that day the man started building a 6ft fence around his back garden and Patrick McQuaid, now 27, never saw the girl again.

“I was young, and didn’t think anything of it,” he recalled last week. “Kids came and went all the time. But she sure was pretty.”

McQuaid reckons that brief encounter happened in July 1991, a memorably hot and dusty summer in the small town of Antioch, east of San Francisco, northern California.

If his memory is correct, this would have been about a month after Jaycee Lee Dugard was kidnapped at a bus stop near her home in Lake Tahoe, 170 miles away.

continues http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6814941.ece

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 19:19

Hello Pussycat, I have found this info on Google with regards to your query. In an Email to Police chief Paulo Rebelo in April 2008 Rachel Oldfield said " We feel that we would be making ourselves extremely vulnerable by returning " I also found a link to an article http://www.nowpublic.com/world/maddie-tapas-7-get-375-000-payout-benefit-mccanns-fund it is has a few lines about the subject in there. There was also an article written in the Sunday Mirror 10 Aug 2008 and an article in the Independant on Monday 7 July 2008 that may be of help to you. All best wishes Rose xx The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 Icon_flower

Guest Sun 30 Aug - 23:42

The Guardian - Jaycee Lee Dugard kidnap

Sick psychology of female sex criminals

Sunday 30 August 2009

It is an illusion that most women are far removed from being able to commit these sort of savage acts. For the majority of men and women, it is guilt and remorse that gets in the way of killing.

The difficulty is to understand how and why people, especially women, commit these sorts of crimes when the usual societal rules are still in place.

The important thing to realise is that there is such a genetic variety among people that there will always be psychotics and sociopaths. Women are just as likely to be miswired in this way as men but they have the extra restraining factor of cultural female norms and genetics, which make them more aware of the consquences of their actions, both for themselves and their victims. Men's wiring is simpler: it's relatively easy to train a man to be a mindless killer, as we have seen repeatedly and frequently over the centuries.

The issue of why women abuse children and other women is such an emotional one that what people often fail to recognise is that there are more differences within the sexes than there are between them. Women can be just as aggressive and cruel as men, given the specific set of circumstances that brings forth that behaviour.

What tends to be true is that even if a woman has the capacity for atrocities inside her, the catalyst to bring those behaviours to the surface often seems to be the presence of a man who lacks the imagination to empathise with his victims or restrain his desire for power and sexual or violent gratification. Women who abuse are less unusual than we might like to think. Men tend to be the more common abusers, especially of children, but when a woman does do it, they often do it horribly. Often it seems to be about anger rather than sexual or power gratification. The anger could be due to her resentment that her charismatic man, as she sees him, wants someone else.

This puts her in a dilemma: either she helps him procure the victim, or she risks losing her lover.

Once the victim has been obtained, it could be that she copes by blaming them for tempting her man and takes out her revenge by colluding in their physical and mental torture. Becoming active in the torture also protects against the risk of a power shift, where the man ends up more interested in the victim than in his wife or partner.

The other theory is that it's pretty thrilling and exciting for someone with catastrophically low self-esteem or low intelligence to be chosen by a man who recognises no superior authority but exhibits pure Nietzschean free will. There can be a horrible Faustian pact based on what therapists call "splitting and projecting": the fact that she worships this special man and subsumes herself to him, gives her – perversely and additionally – status and position. But this reflected glory only exists in relation to him. If she leaves him – or he leaves her because she ceases to please him – she loses that status and ends up even lower than before.

To be trapped in the centre of a great secret with a man perceived to be so charismatic can also be hugely exciting. There is something thrilling, compelling and obsessive about the idea. Added to that is the fact that it's just the two of you against the world. You have both burned your bridges and are outlaws together.

The truth, however, is that you can't have a theory that covers all the reasons why women can commit these sorts of atrocities. There is no satisfactory explanation that can be neatly packaged. Some women have a very poor mental grasp and are swayed by primitive and horrible beliefs.

Some people are, in the old-fashioned lingo, evil.

Phillip Hodson, fellow British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/30/jaycee-dugard-psychology-abuse

magicslipper Sun 30 Aug - 23:58

Thanks for bringing the article here Schnuffel my heart breaks for Jaycee and her children I really hope they can start to rebuild a life with Jaycee's Mum now.

Guest Mon 31 Aug - 0:31

Jaycee Lee Dugard: We're all happy she's back – but it's a life ruined'

Sunday 30 August 2009

Some knew her, others only knew of her. But they will never forget the day 18 years ago when the blonde, blue-eyed 11-year-old was snatched in broad daylight on her way to a bus stop.

Her scream. A frantic sprint on a mountain bike by her stepfather up the twisted mountain road as he tried to catch up to the Ford Granada and the unknown man and woman who had just ripped his family's lives to shreds before his eyes.

A world-renowned tourist destination, South Lake Tahoe on the Nevada-California line is dominated in summer by gamblers, boaters and beachgoers, and in winter by gamblers, skiers and snowboarders. But beneath the facade of a tourist town is a tight-knit community that never forgot Jaycee Lee Dugard.

Her mother, Terry Probyn, and stepfather, Carl, were relative newcomers to the community. "They were brand new to the district," Sue Bush, Jaycee's former teacher, said. "I met them at parent-teacher conference twice."

The community held fundraisers, put up fliers and adorned the town in pink ribbons after Jaycee was kidnapped on 10 June 1991.

On the 10th anniversary of the kidnapping, Terry Probyn, who left Tahoe in 1998 and moved to southern California, returned to the town. "Someone out there knows what happened," she said at the time. "We need peace. Give us that gift."

It arrived, out of the blue, on Wednesday night, when she received a call from investigators, saying that her daughter had been found alive, ending nearly two decades of questions – and suspicions against the girl's stepfather, Carl Probyn.

In South Lake Tahoe, joy that Jaycee was alive was mixed with anxiety about her physical and emotional wellbeing, and sadness over the loss of youth and innocence.

"I used to drive by that bus stop all the time," said Sue Pritchett, a retired teacher. "I'm absolutely ecstatic that she's been found. But I hope she's OK."

Bush recalled the day Jaycee didn't show up for school. "We got the call just before class started," she said. "Some of the kids already knew about it, because they had witnessed it at the bus stop. The kids were very agitated and upset.

"We brought in counsellors, and during the week we wrote letters to Jaycee and her mom. We kept her chair and desk set up."

The school, now called Lake Tahoe Environmental Science Magnet school, has a memory garden that started as Jaycee's Garden. Butterflies painted on the walls symbolise pupils at the school who have died. There are four; one was for Jaycee. "We're all happy she's back. But it's a life ruined," said Bush.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/30/jamie-lee-dugard-lake-tahoe

Guest Mon 31 Aug - 1:03

For abducted woman's family, patience and acceptance critical

Updated 34m ago

Pam and Craig Akers have an inkling of the long, difficult road ahead for Jaycee Lee Dugard as she tries to return to a normal life after 18 years in captivity.

Their son, Shawn Hornbeck, was kidnapped at age 11, too. It happened in 2002 as he rode his bike in Richwoods, Mo. Police found him in 2007 with another kidnapped boy in the suburban St. Louis apartment of pizza parlor worker Michael Devlin.

The Akers remember the range of emotions when he returned: the pure joy that he was alive and the unbridled fury of knowing how he suffered. They remember the gut-wrenching therapy sessions as Hornbeck slowly opened up about his years in captivity. They recall his shame and guilt and the daily assurances they gave him that no matter what he had done to survive, they would always love him.

Dugard has that and more ahead of her, Pam Akers says, because she also has to consider her two daughters, allegedly fathered by her abductor. "Her family and friends need to open their hearts and open their arms and reassure her that everything she did was the right thing. … She did what she had to do to stay alive."

Dugard and her daughters, 11 and 15, have been with her mother since Thursday, a day after the three walked into a parole office in Antioch, Calif., with convicted sex offender Phillip Garrido, 58, and his wife, Nancy, 54.

The Garridos are charged with kidnapping Dugard, snatching her off the street as she walked to her school bus stop in South Lake Tahoe, Calif., and imprisoning her in a filthy backyard encampment of tents, sheds and outhouses. Both pleaded not guilty Friday to 29 counts, including rape, forcible abduction and false imprisonment.

Dugard's reappearance has raised as many questions as it has answered. Among them is why the now-29-year-old woman did not reach out to her family or try to escape.

The Akers and those who counsel abducted children say these youngsters live under daily punishments and threats. The perpetrator makes the child dependent on him for food, clothing and water.

"In some cases, the person eventually becomes somewhat thankful for whatever they do receive and knows that that person could kill them, but didn't," says JoAnn Behrman-Lippert, a Reno psychologist who specializes in victims of child abduction. "It's easy for people to question another individual and say, 'Why didn't you try to get away?' But that's simplistic.

"You have to take into account all those psychological and emotional issues going on and the control," she says. "For many people, the most important part is survival. 'How do I survive this?' If people are captive, they have to figure out what to do to please their captor so they are not further harmed."

In Shawn Hornbeck's case, Devlin tortured him and repeatedly sexually abused him, Shawn and his parents have said. Devlin, who is serving a life sentence in prison, threatened to kill Hornbeck and his parents and once almost strangled the boy to death, Hornbeck has said. Devlin stopped only when Hornbeck promised to do everything Devlin told him to do.

"There are grown adults in abusive relationships who do not get away," says Pam Akers. "How do you expect that out of a child?"

Abducted children need years of therapy to overcome the trauma they experienced, those who work with missing children say.

Dugard and her daughters have begun meeting with a psychologist sent by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

One of the first steps is in-depth interviews with the family to try to get past the fact that for 18 years she was forced to live as someone other than who she was, says Ernie Allen, president of the center. "You have to help them come to grips with this."

The blond, gap-toothed 11-year-old girl who disappeared 18 years ago is not the same person her family faces today.

Dugard's situation is complicated by having two daughters who have lived in isolation all of their lives. They have never been to school or visited a doctor, said El Dorado County Undersheriff Fred Kollar.

"For these children, their father is still their father, no matter what has happened," Behrman-Lippert says. "It's very complex and not a black-and-white situation."

The Akers counsel lots of patience.

Two years after Shawn Hornbeck returned home, there are still questions his parents have not asked, including why he never tried to escape or call, says Craig Akers, his stepfather. Hornbeck still sees a therapist, though not as frequently as in the beginning. He is a high school senior, looking to apply to colleges and study forensics. He's adjusting well and doesn't have the kinds of anger issues or problems sleeping you would expect, Akers says.

"It's scary at times because you would expect there to be issues," Craig Akers says. "You have to take it slow. You don't need to get all the answers in a day, a week or a year."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-08-30-abduct_N.htm

Think about the real impact of this article for a moment given the fact that Jaycee Lee Dugard has alleged been raped by both her male and female captors. Acceptance by the parents is critical regardless of who kidnapped/abused their child.

Guest Mon 31 Aug - 3:22

Many pictures of the "compound".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/jaycee-lee-dugard/6109792/Inside-Jaycee-Lee-Dugards-garden-prison.html

magicslipper Mon 31 Aug - 13:56

I heard on the news today that they are looking for bodies of three other schoolgirls who went missing in the area around the time Jaycee was kidnapped. May the pair rot in hell .

magicslipper Mon 31 Aug - 14:50

I can remember the break down rumours for both OB and Tanner in the press but in 2007 and the time off work. There was also the talk that it was OB who changed his statement.

Guest Mon 31 Aug - 14:56

Tony Bennett wrote:Rotting meat?

Dirty nappies?

People who took soft toys around with them while certifiying death?

or BODIES?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090831/twl-jaycee-death-dogs-search-for-child-b-3fd0ae9.html

Interesting....let's see what these dogs find.
Maybe they won't find a body but they will find an old pork chop...?? The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 23324

Guest Mon 31 Aug - 17:31

Hello Pussycat, You are very Welcome. I'm glad I could be of help. The Backyard Prisoner: The Story of Jaycee Dugard - Page 10 Icon_flower

All my very best wishes from Rose xx

Guest Mon 31 Aug - 17:56

Hello navyblue, I agree with you. In amongst all the main players in this very sad case you would think that on the balance of probabilities that at least one person would have a conscience and that feelings that emanate from that conscience would perhaps prompt them to try to do the right thing in the circumstances however belatedly that was. Unfortunately I have yet to see any real signs of that amongst the associates of the Mc Canns. I live in hope though as without hope we would only begin to despair which is not a very positive thing to do. I did see something written about O'Brien and the fact he wasn't well, it came a while after the holiday but I can't remember exactly where I saw it. If I do find it I'll post it on this thread. Best wishes Rose xx

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