EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2

Panda

Channel4 News yesterday evening interviewed a Tax Inspector working for the Greek Government said his wages would be below the monthly rental on his flat if they institute these cuts.

They are going to hit the streets methinks!

Angelique wrote:Panda

Channel4 News yesterday evening interviewed a Tax Inspector working for the Greek Government said his wages would be below the monthly rental on his flat if they institute these cuts.

They are going to hit the streets methinks!

Hi Angelique

The main problem with Greece is that the Country has no concept of economics, the governemt is very slow in collecting taxes and even now, those rich people with money are coming to London to buy expensive Properties.!!!! Add to this the fact that the Greek Government has made no attempt to cut down on Public employees and you can understand why Germany demanded evidence of an attempt to curb expenditure before releasing the second Tranche. Merkel and Papandreou to hold a joint Press Conference where more details are expected to be given.

The latest News is Papandreou has succeeded in winning the vote to introduce Property Taxes, so expect rioting on the Streets again.!!!!

Spain and Italy sold E24 billion Bonds today at a reasonable interest rate and Spain has reduced it"s spending target from 3.3% to 2.8% whjich is
good News. No News on Portugal which is reported to be seeking more ECB aid although this hasn"t been confirmed .

Shares have gone up on the News but analysts are still saying the problem is not over and Greece may yet have to default if they have not raised much
Revenue before the Tranche has been used up. No matter what the Government says, if the Residents refuse to pay the Tax, what are they to do?

THERE WAS A PICTURE IN THE GUARDIAN OF POLICE HANGING A BANNER IN ATHENS SAYING PAYDAY IS A DAY OF MOURNING.
THE POLICE IT SEEMS ARE GOING TO STRIKE NEXT

Badboy wrote:THERE WAS A PICTURE IN THE GUARDIAN OF POLICE HANGING A BANNER IN ATHENS SAYING PAYDAY IS A DAY OF MOURNING.
THE POLICE IT SEEMS ARE GOING TO STRIKE NEXT

Hi Badboy, no matter what Heads of Government say, if these cuts lead to mass demonstrations, which they will, and bring down the Government,
Greece will default and it should have happened a Year ago, it will take generations to pay of their debt. Too late the EU has realised that one Currency does not fit all and too much interference by the EU completely ignored the fact that Countries want to Govern themselves not by some diktat from
Brussels.

Panda

Yes - I agree its not looking good - but good news about the Bonds viz a viz Italy and Spain.

The German people don't seem that worried - they work hard and are proud of it - can't help thinking that they did it with our money (didn't they after the War). Still doesn't detract from the fact that they are now able to bail other EU Countries out - they seem to like that as well.

I don't think Germany or France will let the Euro fail - they are almost manic in trying to keep it alfloat IMO.

Here we go again!! Shares in Europe opened down on the opinion of Germany"s Finance Minister who called Merkel"s suggestion that Italy and Spain"s
debt should be ringfenced "a silly idea". Barossa is addressing Parliament and he is known to favour a Eurobond, making all Euro Nations responsible
for a fiscal policy, Germany is against this. It seems as if the Fed will be the Lender of last resort and Geithner may well suggest a default, much as it would throw the market into chaos initially, this drip, drip, solution is unsettling the markets, banks in particular .

Stephen Pattison of the International Chamber of Commerce, in an interview said the EU must get a grip on the situation, at the moment no one is
united in taking action. Apparently, during the Lehmann crisis, the G20 took complete control of the situation and resolved the crisis. He believes there
is too much protectionism by Countries around the World which leads to unfair trading .

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3:44pm UK, Tuesday September 27, 2011

Joel Hills, business presenter

Markets may be expecting a 'shock and awe' rescue plan for the eurozone –
but there's a risk it will shock and underwhelm.




Markets rose on hopes of a rescue package - but investors
may be disappointed



There is a real tension between the treatment the International Monetary Fund
(IMF) has prescribed to solve the sovereign debt crisis - and the medicine
Germany, in particular, is willing to administer.

This much I know:

1) On the need to force Europe's big banks to raise more money.

I sense almost no enthusiasm in Berlin for the recapitalisation of the bigger
banks like Societe General or Unicredit. I don't think Germany or France accept
that the big banks (theirs included) are fundamentally weak.

The fact that share prices have tumbled and bank debt insurance costs soared
is a merely a symptom of a problem of sovereign debt. The view in Berlin seems
to be: sort out debt and deficit issues in Greece, Italy, Portugal and Ireland
and you solve banks funding costs.



The rescue plan is rumoured to involve mass
recapitalisation of banks



2) On reports the bailout fund will grow from 440bn euros to as much a
2trn euros.

There is a desire in Paris and Berlin to ensure the July 21st agreement to
enhance the European Financial Stability Facility is ratified. But there is high
anxiety about going any further. Any attempt to expand direct funding guarantees
by eurozone members may simply lead to a country like France losing its AAA
credit rating.

Even the German Finance Minister, Wolfgang Schaeuble, is now saying
publically that proposal to enlarge bailout fund is a "silly idea" that "makes
no sense".

It’s also feared any attempt to "leverage" the EFSF (to use it in its
existing form as a form of "first loss insurance" to support ECB funding) may
have the same effect.
I have been told by two good sources that there is a
feeling that journalists in Washington were "over-briefed".



Expanding the EFSF could have the knock-on effect of
lowering nations' credit ratings



3) On reports Greece will be allowed to write off up to 50% of its
debt.

Again, I'm told that there is no such proposal on the table - yet, at least.
There are discussions (unsurprisingly) about default. There is a consensus that
the private sector must absorb some of the losses. But they haven't yet managed
to secure the blessing of creditors for the write-downs of up to 21% they are
being asked to accept as part of the July 21st agreement.

At the moment there's still some concern that the EU/IMF/ECB inspectors may
yet decide Greece is insolvent and refuse to pay out the next instalment of
bailout funding that's due next month. Inspectors are due back in Athens later
this week. Greece is widely seen to have failed to deliver on promises of
privatisation and reform to both the labour market (not flexible enough) and the
public sector (still too big). Oh, and the deficit appears to be getting bigger
not smaller. Oh, and it's still in recession and is likely to be next year
too.

Of course all of the above may yet come to pass but I would just tread a
little cautiously. Agreement has yet to be reached and, when it is, there may be
a gap between expectations and reality.




sky report

EU Chief Calls For Pooling Of European Debt

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10:21am UK, Wednesday September 28, 2011




The European Union is facing its biggest challenge in history, the
president of the European Commission has warned, as debt inspectors
return to Athens.







Jose Manuel Barroso said the issuance of joint debt could be advantageous for all




In his annual address to the European Parliament, Jose Manuel
Barroso called for the pooling of European debt to tackle the debt
crisis.


"We need to complete our monetary union with an economic union," he said.


"It was an illusion to think that we could have a common currency and
a single market with national approaches to economic and budgetary
policy."


Mr Barroso also called for the creation of a tax on financial
transactions, saying it was "time for the financial sector to make a
contribution back to society".







Greek riot police face protestors angry about the latest austerity measures





Meanwhile, auditors from the EU and International Monetary Fund (IMF)
are heading to Athens to assess the state of the stricken country's
finances.


They will then recommend whether to release billions of euros that Greece needs to avoid running out of money next month.


But the country's powerful unions are expected to stage another strike, in protest at expanding austerity measures.


Anger has mounted over extension of a property tax until 2014 and an accelerated budget cut strategy.







A Greek civil servant clashes with riot police as politicians voted to make further cuts





The government will cut the 730,000 public workforce by a fifth,
reduce the public wage bill by 20%, as well as lower overall pensions by
4% in addition to a 10% cut already agreed in previous plans.


The second bailout aims to ease Greece's debt burden by imposing a 21% loss on private Greek bondholders.


However, many economists believe that a 50% loss is necessary to make the country's debt viable.


The Financial Times reported that a split had opened in the euro zone
over the deal and said as many as seven of its 17 countries argued that
the private bondholders should swallow bigger write-downs.

Agreement has yet to be reached and, when it is, there may be a gap between expectations and reality.

Joel Hills, business presenter







Hardliners in Germany and the Netherlands were leading the calls for
bigger write-downs but meeting fierce resistance from France and the
ECB, which feared more selling of shares in European banks with big
Greek bond holdings.


In a meeting with Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, Mrs Merkel said the troubled country's government must fully implement all its planned austerity measures.


But in Greece, taxi drivers, bus and tram operators and tax
collectors prepared to strike for a second day and rail and transport
system workers promised to join them.

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Clegg Urges Euro Unity As Germany Votes

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6:34am UK, Thursday September 29, 2011

Nick Clegg is urging Europe to remain united over the debt crisis - as
Germany decides if it will back the creation of a new eurozone rescue fund.











The Deputy Prime Minister's prompt comes after one of his most senior Tory
colleagues condemned the eurozone as a "burning building with no exits".

Mr Clegg is to warn of the dangers of "fragmentation" amid frantic efforts to
control the sovereign debt crisis.

It would be a "disaster" if EU members "turned away from each other" rather
than working together to overcome problems, the Liberal Democrat leader will
tell an audience in Poland.

His tone contrasts sharply with that of Foreign Secretary William Hague, who
last night reiterated his desire for Britain to take back powers from Europe - a
demand set to be echoed by right-wingers at the Conservative Party conference
next week.



Nick Clegg is urging great eurozone unity over the
crisis



Mr Clegg's speech comes as talks resume between Greek officials, European
Commission negotiators, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary
Fund (IMF) over whether Greece can receive another chunk of bailout loans.

Greece will need to demonstrate that its austerity measures are working
before its gets the latest £7bn instalment of a £95bn package approved by the 17
eurozone countries.

Markets will be waiting for positive news as stocks have plunged recently on
fears Greece could default on its massive debt.

Traders fear that the German parliament votes today against a big rise in
Europe's current bailout fund for struggling euro-economies.



German leader Angela Merkel with Greece's George
Papandreou



German Chancellor Angela Merkel faces a battle for her political survival
when some of her coalition, worried about throwing good money after bad by
bailing out Greece, could humiliate her in the vote on euro-zone rescue
schemes.

Support from the centre-left opposition will ensure Germany passes the bill
on new powers for the European Financial Stability Facility, which some
countries like Finland have ratified but others, including Slovakia, are
disputing.

But if dissent in her coalition forces Merkel to rely on opposition votes to
pass the new powers for the 440bn euro (£385bn) rescue fund, it would be
politically damaging for the conservative chancellor.

A straw Poll among well known Investors around the World reveals the following:-

43% say we will slide into recession by the end of the Year

40% say a Country will leave the EU within a Year

93% say Greece will default

42% say Spain will reduce debt, 43% say Portugal will reduce debt


Angela Merkel needs all 17 Member Countries to agree to her proposal to finance the increase in EFSS Funds, meeting later this morning will decide
outcome.

Spanish Bond yields are falling as Italian Bond yields are rising on Investors opinion that Spain is handling the crisis better than Italy.

Germany votes in favour of EFSS enlarging assets to E440 billion and ability to issue more than Bonds. If the new rule is approved, more money will be
given to EFSS and they can lend to Banks. EFSS is housed in a modest building in Luxembourg I think, only 15 Employees, not sure if they will have
autonomy or have to work with the ECB, it"s all getting very complicated which highlights yet again the inability of the EU to make quick decisions and
hard to understand why the banks couldn"t go to the ECB for help.
Just confirmed, Merkel has won and European shares and the euro are improving.

This vote was to allow the second Tranche to be paid to Greece, what happens if the Country has not reduced it"s deficit by the time this money runs
out. Ireland has been praised for doing the right thing and reducing their debt without strikes, protest marches etc. They have reduced in every
department, even Government .


a couple of comments on sky which I think sums up the whole fiasco.

Posted by: Robbie G on September 29, 2011 10:43 AM

Greece is bankrupt & can never recover. They
should be the first country to come out of the Eurozone & devalue their
currency etc. Ultimately, the EU should be reformed with trade agreements only.
The rest is a left wing inspired experiemt that has gone very very
wrong.

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by: keith8 on September 29, 2011 11:16 AM

Why are we governed by EU law the BBritish
People have never agreed to be anything else but a trading partner if agreements
have been made by underhanded means then they are illegal.We are not part of the
Euro monetary system now and never will be so why are we expected to help bail
out Eu and plunge ourselves into an even more dangerous position we must leave
the EU they have cost us billions and given us nothing we are just and
instrument in Germany and France's dream.Leave Now!!

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Posted by: JayKay7 on September 29, 2011 10:58 AM

The only reason the EU commissioners are so
desperate to save the euro is because without this useless currency, their dream
of a single united european superstate lies in ruins - and the brussels gravy
train hits the buffers. Can't come soon enough for me.

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Well that"s a good start, the Greeks are already protesting and tried to stop the "Troika" meeting in Greece today. The German finance Minister says
there will be no futher increase in the EFSS from Germany.

Already there is concern about whether the amount allocated E440 billion is enough. analysts are saying what if Italy and Spain need help? What if French Banks need Loans. There is concern that Greece will not reduce expenditure to warrant the E8 Billion Tranche because the Greek people will not accept the cuts and probably stage several strikes, hurting their economy even more.

Accountants Ernst and Young are saying default by Greece is unavoidable and there is a 35% chance of a dip into a recession. Also, a much bigger Fund is required to bail out other vulnerable Countries ,

Marie Dixon, Chief Economist at E & Y says since the crisis started with Greece over a year ago, the Euro Authorities have always been one step behind
and shown how disorganised the EU is for dealing with something like this.

A German Minister interviewed said more fiscal discipline is needed......a bit late to make a remark like that.!!!

German Ministers being interviewed said they are increasingly anxious about the amount they are giving , too much aid which will never be repaid.They
are expecting growth of only 1% next year.

Global Stocks have ended the week in the Red on fears over the the EU crisis and downturn in economies around the World.

Some European Countries want more of the debt put in the private sector not their Banks.

Apparently, Greece has admitted that it will not meet the austeritiy measures for this year or next and Asian Markets have fallen as a result because
their exports will be affected. Papandreou has put 30, 000 Public Sector employees on part time wages for one year and they will be made redundant
after that. This has to be confirmed by the EU because Greece will not qualify for the second tranche of E8 billion and will default.

Stocks and the Euro have all started lower,Banking shares leading the field because of their exposure to Greece. A crisis meeting is to be held this morning
in Luxembourg to discuss the admission by Papandreou that Greece will only achieve 6.5% debt reduction in 2012 not the 6.8% demanded by the Troika
before Greece can receive the E8.5 billion loan. This saga is like being on a drip feed and there is no way now that Greece can stay in the EU, which has
proved very ineffective at dealing with this matter, first discussed a year ago.!!!

There is a meeting at this moment in Luxembourg with the EU Members and ECB.

Greece is not able to make the target set by the EU but no decision will be made today on what to do.

Spain want more capacity in the EFSF, which suggests they will be looking to borrow more money

Finland wants collateral for it"s participation in the Greek deal

Dexia Bank down 10.2 % and in danger of collapse.

French Banks very vulnerable.......have you noticed Sarkozy is hiding now, no joint meetings with Merkel. He kept quiet about the state of the Banks
when the problem with Greece first surfaced.

Governments around the World are exasperated at the EU unable to make a firm decision and they believe it is only delaying the inevitable, that Greece will default. Of course the repercussions on th EURO will be immense but the world has it"s problems beside Europe and it is going to take a long time for the economy of the world to recover.

Germany is saying it will not be able to add more money to the bailout of Greece because a decision was made a while ago at a meeting of the German
parliament.

This comment from a recent report on the Greek crisis had this to say:


Posted by: proudcitybanker on October 3, 2011 4:12 PM

Step1: Let Greece default. Apply a 50% haircut
to their debts at least

Step2: Lend Greece no more money, let them figure
out the rest themselves

Step 3 Let the holders of the defaulted Greek
bonds bear the losses themselves (mainly French & German banks). No taxpayer
bailouts from northern European governments

Step 4: If this causes some
banks to fail well let them fail

Simple....

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I would go along with that solution.

Warren Buffet, a World Famous owner of an Investment Company is just being interviewed. He says it is inevitable that the world is going to face hard
times, says the problem with Greece should have been resolved more than a year ago and it was very fanciful to expect 17 Countries with different language and culture to behave in a uniform way with a single currency.He says the only real way out is to print money to bail out the EU Banks, Greece, Spain and maybe a couple of others , but this would be unsustainable and weaken the Euro .Whatever they decide it should be quickly because their
inability to reach a decision quickly is affecting the rest of the World and not doing their reputation any good.

sky news


Greece's deficit for 2011-12 is now expected to reach 8.5% of its gross
domestic product - down from 10.5% in 2010, but short of the 7.6% target.

The 2012 draft budget showed Greece's economy would continue to shrink - by
2.5% next year, compared with a 5.5% contraction this year.

Government debt is seen climbing to 172.7% of GDP from an estimated 161.8%
while the jobless rate is expected to rise to 16.4% in 2012.

Inspectors from the IMF, EU and European Central Bank are in Athens to decide
whether Greece should get a key bailout instalment - cash the country needs to
avoid going bankrupt next month.

This thread has been going for some time and there is a lot of interest because it has quite a few hits every day,yet no one posts here. It would be nice to get some response .......as long as you stick to topic.

Panda wrote:This thread has been going for some time and there is a lot of interest because it has quite a few hits every day,yet no one posts here. It would be nice to get some response .......as long as you stick to topic.

Thanks for posting these updates, Panda. I am just reading for information here and thank you for it.