Re: New EC Thread

[Badboy]

A GREEK EXIT COULD COST GB 1TRILLION POUNDS.
PHEW! THAT A LOT OF MONEY.

[Badboy]

PROGRAMME ABOUT GREAT EURO CRASH HAS BEGIN.
THERE IS A DEMO AGAINST A HOUSEHOLD TAX OF100 EUROS.
SCENE OF A VIOLENT PROTEST(GREECE/SPAIN?)
40% OF GB EXPORTS TO EUROZONE
WINSTON CHURCHILL WANTED AN UNITED STATES OF EUROPE
THE IDEA OF A SINGLE CURRENCY WAS FIRST THOUGHT IN 1960S.
THERE WAS AN IDEA THAT 1980 WOULD SEE THAT HAPPEN,BUT IT FAILED TO MATERALISE.
MITTERAND WANTED TO SEE AN UNITED EUROPE AND A SINGLE CURRENCY.

[Badboy]

IN ITALY,A TAXI SAYS ITALIAN SAYS THAT DEBT WAS COMMON,TAX DODGING COMMON.
GERMANY AFTER WAR STARTED WORKING HARD,A GERMAN SAYS I SAVE FOR SOMETHING,DON'T EXCEED WHAT YOU GOT.
UNION BROUGHT TOGETHER DIFFERENT ECONOMIES(FARMING/INDUSTRALISED ETC NATION).
THEY TRIED TO DO A CURRENCY UNION BEFORE A FISCAL/POLITICAL UNION WHICH POSSIBLY CAUSED THE PROBLEMS.
REQUIREMENT WAS COUNTRIES MUST HAVE UNDER 60% debt,italy broke that rule but still joined.
SOME COUNTRIES WERE ONLY JUST MEETING ENTRY RULES,BUT WERE STILL JOINING.
BANKS WERE POSSIBLY HELPING COUNTRIES BREAKING THE RULES/HIDING DEBTS VIA DERIVIATIVES SO THAT COULD SAY DEBTS WERE BIGGER LATER ON.
GREECE HID THEIR DEBTS,EU COMMISSION ACCEPTED THEIR FIGURES.
DEFICIT RULES WERE WEAKENED.
PUBLIC DEBT SOAR BECAUSE JOINING THE EURO REDUCED INTEREST RATES,BECAUSE EVERY NATION PAYED SAME CHEAP RATE AS GERMANY.
CHEAP INTEREST MEANT IRISH/SPANISH PROPERTY DEVELOPERS COULD BORROW TO BUILT HOMES.

THEN LEHMAN BROTHERS COLLAPSED.
EUROZONE FAILED TO PROTECT ITS BANKS.
THEN GREECE RELEAVED ITS DEBTS WERE BIG.
ALRIGHT TO BORROW WHILE THERE WAS A BOOM,THEN BUST RELEAVES DEBTS.
IRISH PROPERTYY DEVELOPER HAD 70MILLION EURO WORTH OF PROPERTY,NOW WORTH 10 MILLION EUROS.
FRANKFURT BANKS REFUSED TO LEND TO EACH OTHER,LEADING TO A POSSIBLE COLLAPSE.
EU APPROVED LOANS TO 100 OF BANKS TO PREVENT COLLAPSE OF BANKING SECTION.
NONE OF MONEY HAS GONE INTO ECONOMY.
MONEY HAS GONE INTO GOVERNMENT BONDS,ISSUED BY GOVERNMENTS SUPPOSEDLY ALSO INSOLVENT AS WELL.
LOANS ONLY BUYS TIME.
COUNTRIES MUST BECOME COMPETATIVE BY CUTTING PUBLIC SERVICES AND CUT WAGES ETC.
LIVING STANDARDS MIGHT HAVE TO DROP BY 30% TO BECOME COMPETATIVE.
Italian have found austerity,closed profession to be opened up.
THINGS MIGHT TURN NASTY,STRIKES IN ITALY.
GERMAN EFFICIENCY HAS CREATED A TRADE SURPLUS.

[Badboy]

IT IS BEING SAID THAT POLITICAL UNION MIGHT IMPROVE THINGS.
AUSTERITY MEANS INCREASING UNEMPLOYEMENT WHERE THERE IS LOTS OF UNEMPLOYMENT.
A COLLAPSE OF THE EURO WOULD LEAD TO GOVERNMENTS ETC GOING BANKRUPT.

[Panda]

3:18am UK, Friday May 18, 2012

Greece's credit rating has been downgraded due to the "heightened risk" that the political and economic crisis could drag the country out of the euro.

The debt-laden country was cut from a B to a CCC rating by Fitch ratings agency on the same day it swore in a caretaker Prime Minister, Panagiotis Pikrammenos.



Meanwhile, across town David Beckham was being given the Olympic Torch for its onwards journey to London.

On such a busy day in Athens one might easily have missed something quite significant.

In around the same hour as Beckham seized the torch and Fitch downgraded Greece, a poll came out suggesting that the pro-Europe parties could get a majority in the next election.

It is the first bit of good news the centre parties have had in weeks and it could mark a significant turning point in Greece's future.

Up until now the far-left coalition Syriza had been gaining momentum and seemed set to win round two of the elections.

However, the MARC/Alpha survey suggests that if elections were held today, pro-austerity conservatives New Democracy (ND) would win with 26.1% of the vote, compared to Syriza's 23.7%.

What is more, the Socialist party PASOK would get enough seats to help ND form a pro-austerity coalition with a 14-seat majority in the country's 300-strong seat parliament.

Polls last week had showed anti-bailout Syriza coming first in the election.

The top spot comes with a bonus of 50 seats, meaning the slightest edge could be pivotal in determining the makeup of the next government.



The economic trouble in Greece have sparked major unrest

So what has changed? Perhaps nothing, it is just an opinion poll. But perhaps the warnings from Europe are beginning to permeate.

Or just maybe, Greeks have been shocked by the market reaction to the last election results and failure of parties to form a coalition.

The warning from President Karolos Papoulais that hundreds of millions of euros had been withdrawn from Greek banks since the election was also a considerable wake-up call.

The electorate is not easily swayed by external forces. Persistent warnings from the German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble seem to have been ignored.

But alarm bells have been sounded by what is happening at the banks.

There is no visible evidence of a public run on deposits in Athens. The cash points function and Northern Rock-style queues have not formed along the high streets.

But money is seeping out at an alarming rate and the last 18 months have seen deposits fall from 237bn euros to 165bn - a 30% decrease in assets.

Hedge fund manager Jason Manolopoulos told Sky News: "Right now the water is simmering, but once it goes to boiling point and people start panicking, that's when it's going to get dangerous.

"A lot of money is leaving the system. If it continues at the same rate it can go on for six months or more, but what happens if the rate increases?"

According to analysts, large investors and foreign business have for the most part already pulled out their Greek deposits.

But Mr Manolopoulos said: "Now there is a second middle class group that has started to worry. People with 100,000 to 200,000 in the banks."

Athens surgeon Bellos Kyrakos admitted he had already moved his savings to Switzerland.

"I'm not proud of it," he said.

"But I'm worried about the banking system in Greece and a return to the Drachma."

That return to the old currency is the big fear looming over Greece, more so than even a week ago.

Greeks are starting to feel the burden of responsibility of these next elections. While attention was on France last time Greece voted, now the world spotlight is brightly on them and the consequence of their choice is becoming clearer.

[Panda]

Asian Market stocks down on news America's growth has weakened.

Moody's downgrade of 16 Spanish Banks has caused more panic in the Eurozone. significant sums of money have been withdrawn as a result.

Greek Banks are also seeing large sums of money withdrawn. A recent poll in Greece suggests will vote to retain the Euro by voting in Political Parties
other than those who favour leaving the euro.

The Fundamental Equities spokesman says policymakers in Europe have done nothing to lessen this crisis and he hopes the ECB will not try another sticking plaster .

Investors say the Greek withdrawal would mean this default on their debt , which while harmful would not be fatal.

ECB is not allowed to lend to insolvent Banks and it is looking increasingly liklely that some of the Euro Banks who borrowed for 3 years will be unable to make repayment.

Share prices in Spanish Banks have fallen sharply and Italy could be the next Country to have it's Banks downgraded.

Since the Election in Greece is not to be held until June 17th, another month of indecision is likely to cause even more turmoil.

It is a widely held view in the Investment Market that after 2 years ,nothing has been resolved and the EU is proving a fragile alliance where it has been
proved by this crisis that the inequality of Nations can never make for a progressive Union.

A G8 Summit is to be held in Camp David and top of the Agenda will be the Greek , and now Spanish Crisis. David Cameron is expected to voice his criticism of the lack of action by the EU and Britain could be caught up in the crisis. Britain is the most indebted Country in the World and it would
be catastrophic if some of these debts were to be called in.

[Panda]

May 18, 3:54 AM EDT


Global leaders seek to corral Europe crisis

By CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER and DAVID McHUGH
Associated Press








WASHINGTON (AP) -- The leaders of eight of the world's biggest economies meet this weekend outside Washington, seeking to keep Europe's debt crisis from spiraling out of control and jeopardizing fledgling recoveries in the U.S. and elsewhere.

The turmoil in Greece is draining confidence in the 17 countries that use the euro. Borrowing costs are up for the most indebted governments. Depositors and investors are fleeing banks seen as weak. Unemployment is soaring as recession grips nearly half the eurozone countries. And global markets are on edge.

All that forms a tumultuous backdrop as representatives of the G8 countries - the United States, Germany, France, Britain, Japan, Russia, Italy and Canada - head to Camp David. Standing in the way of a breakthrough are disagreements over how to bolster Europe's economy and avoid a broader catastrophe.

In advance of the talks, German Chancellor Angela Merkel struck a conciliatory note this week. She said in a television interview this week that she was open to measures to help stimulate Greece's economy as long as the country honors its commitments to shrink its debts.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner applauded the softer tone emerging among European leaders.

"You are seeing them talk about a better balance between growth and austerity, meaning a somewhat more gradual, softer path toward restoring fiscal sustainability," Geithner said.

The shift shows that European leaders recognize that countries can't increase their economic growth if they're forced to focus solely on cutting spending and reducing debts. Geithner said European countries would benefit from investment in public works projects, like roads and schools.

At this weekend's talks, non-European leaders will seek assurances that European leaders could contain the damage from a banking meltdown in Greece. They worry about a panic that could spill into Portugal, Spain and other indebted European countries - and to nations outside the continent whose banks are connected to Greek banks.

"If there was a bank run in Greece ... would they know how to prevent it from spreading to other countries?" said Jacob Kierkegaard, a research fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

U.S. officials will be "looking for assurances that the Europeans are aware of what's needed to keep the euro together and are willing to take those measures."

The meetings begin Friday evening with an economics-focused summit at Camp David, the presidential retreat in Maryland's Catoctin mountains. They will end Saturday evening. Most of the officials will join a larger group of international leaders in Chicago for a national-security oriented NATO summit Sunday and Monday.

Investors have been shaken by the power vacuum in debt-stricken Greece. They fear the consequences if Greece refuses to impose deep spending cuts agreed to under a bailout deal. They worry that the bailout could collapse, toppling Greece's economic and banking system and forcing the nation from the eurozone.

Should that happen, larger governments in Spain or Italy that are struggling to ease their debt loads might soon fail. The eurozone itself could splinter. The result could be a global crisis to rival the one that followed the 2008 collapse of the investment bank Lehman Brothers.

Behind the turmoil is a growing realization that cost-cutting alone won't solve Europe's crisis. Europe's governments have begun to seek ways to energize the continent's economy. Yet when money is tight and borrowing costs are high, governments have little ability to quickly stimulate growth.

Speaking to business leaders before leaving for the G8 summit, British Prime Minister David Cameron warned Thursday that the eurozone must "make up, or it is looking at a potential breakup."

"Either Europe has a committed, stable, successful eurozone with an effective firewall, well-capitalized and regulated banks, a system of fiscal burden sharing, and supportive monetary policy across the eurozone - or we are in uncharted territory, which carries huge risks for everybody," Cameron said in a speech in Manchester.

The Obama administration is also concerned that shocks from Europe could slow the U.S. economy and threaten President Barack Obama's re-election prospects.

Yet it's also aware there's no simple solution. European countries are straining under high borrowing costs. Their lending rates are high because investors are nervous about their debt loads relative to the strength of the economies.

Under pressure from Germany, Europe's strongest economy, governments have laid off workers, cut pay for others, reduced spending on social programs and imposed higher taxes and fees to boost revenue.

Yet as economies have shrunk, countries' debt as a percentage of their economies has worsened. Leaders are increasingly recognizing that budget-cutting must be paired with steps to invigorate Europe's economies.

The United States, along with Japan and Canada, is expected to push Merkel to do more to spur growth in Europe. Germany has begun to accept such an approach after the election of pro-growth Francois Hollande to the French presidency and the fall of a pro-austerity Dutch government.

Among the growth measures some economists recommend are reducing regulations for small businesses, making it easier for workers to find jobs across the eurozone and relaxing barriers that countries have created to protect their industries.

Germany has already negotiated higher public sector wages, a step that could encourage Germans to increase their purchases of goods from more troubled European economies.

"That is the one thing Barack Obama will try to impress on Angela Merkel," said Sung Won Sohn, an economics professor at California State's Martin Smith School of Business.

But most stimulative measures take time - up to a decade, in some cases - to kick in. They won't much help a Europe that needs much stronger growth now.

Joaquin Almunia, the European Union's top antitrust official and its former economic and monetary affairs commissioners, argued Wednesday that the eurozone lacks a growth strategy that can co-exist with short-term steps to shrink government debts.

"We cannot offer to the public an adjustment period of 10 years," Almunia said.

Claudia Schmucker, an economist at the German Council on Foreign Relations, thinks that while Merkel won't drop her austerity demands she will eventually agree to some growth measures.

A growth agreement among European leaders would at least "show that we are doing something," Schmucker said.

In light of all the obstacles, expectations are low for a breakthrough at Camp David this weekend.

"There will be nothing here that tackles the fundamental key questions looming over the global economy," Kierkegaard said.

---

McHugh reported from Frankfurt. AP Economics Writer Martin Crutsinger contributed to this report.

© 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

[Panda]

Madrid (CNN)-- Spain's government called for calm Friday, a day after rating agency Moody's downgraded 16 Spanish banks in the latest sign of distress in Europe.

Among those who saw their ratings lowered were giants Banco Santander and BBVA, the country's two largest banks.

"On behalf of the government, I want to first send a message of calm to the investors and depositors as the government ... tries to guarantee the solvency and capacity of all the institutions to carry out their obligations," Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said.

At a Cabinet meeting Friday, Spanish ministers agreed that the top priority regarding the economy is controlling the deficit.



Bankia troubles put Spain on edge

Spain's nationalized 'Bankia' recession

Open Mic: Spain's economy

May 15th movement back in Spain Moody's cited concerns about the banks' exposure to Spain's faltering economy and the "reduced" ability of the Spanish government to support them in a crisis.

The downgrades come amid rising concern about the political and economic turmoil in Greece, and the potential ripple effect of that crisis on nations like Spain and Italy that are struggling with low growth and big debts.

"The Spanish economy has fallen back into recession in first-quarter 2012, and Moody's does not expect conditions to improve during 2012," the rating agency said as it announced the downgrades.

"Moreover, the real-estate crisis that began in 2008 is ongoing, and unemployment has risen to very high levels, with rising risks to white-collar employment (in addition to extremely-high youth unemployment) affecting the outlook for banks' household lending."

Shares in Spanish banks were up in early trading Friday, as markets digested news of the downgrades, which had been widely expected.

The Spanish bank Bankia, which was effectively nationalized this month, was not mentioned by Moody's, but the government was forced to step in Thursday to deny rumors of a run on bank deposits.

"I think this is a good moment to send out a calming message to all the savers. It is not true that there would be a large-scale exit of savings from Bankia at this moment," the country's deputy economy minister said.

Bankia also issued a statement saying deposit holders could be confident about the safety of their savings.

The bank saw shares surge by as much as 30% early Friday, recovering some of the heavy losses suffered in recent days.

Global investors have been unnerved by the political uncertainty in Greece, amid fears it could leave the eurozone should anti-austerity parties win enough votes in elections next month and default on its huge debts.

Ratings agency Fitch downgraded Greece's long-term credit rating from B- to CCC on Thursday, citing the increased risk that Greece could be forced to leave the eurozone.

An exit from the eurozone would be "probable" if the elections fail to produce a government willing to stand by earlier austerity agreements reached with eurozone leaders, Fitch said.

In turn, the country's departure from the eurozone would "result in widespread default on private sector as well as sovereign euro-denominated obligations," the ratings agency said.

This would have an impact on the other 16 nations in the eurozone single-currency area, it warned.

Spain's borrowing costs have been rising as investors in the bond market fear it could become the next euro area nation to fall victim to the debt crisis.

Overall, Spain has pledged to cut its national deficit to 5.3% of GDP, but the European Commission forecast last week that the country would fail to meet that goal, instead hitting 6.4% of GDP.

Spain has announced roughly $35 billion in budget cuts this year.

CNN's Per Nyberg and Al Goodman contributed to this report.

[Panda]

Paris (CNN)-- While the French electorate has put its faith in a new president to turn around the country's economic fortunes, some cash-strapped Parisians are turning to time-honored methods to make ends meet.

Nicole Rocher is among the crowds of Parisians that line up daily up to pawn their wares at the famous Credit Municipal, which has operated in the city since the 17th century. She is hoping to offload some of her possessions, including furs and a clock, for cash to boost her dwindling retirement fund.

"We are going through a difficult time," says Rocher. "My husband and I are retired so there are periods which are sometimes hard and we need to pay the rent."

Parisians have been going to Credit Municipal for centuries to take out low-cost loans against their belongings to make ends meet. They bring anything with a minimum value of €30 as security against a 12-month loan equal to half the object's value.

Tough economic times have seen around 40% more people turning up here in the last five years -- 700 people a day, compared to 550 a year ago.

We are quite a good barometer of the economy and we are slightly ahead of it.

Bernard Candiard, director Credit Municipal "We are quite a good barometer of the economy and we are slightly ahead of it, because our 30% increase in trade between 2007 and 2008 was before the crisis," says Credit Municipal director Bernard Candiard. "So the crisis began with us four months before it happened to the markets."

Credit Municipal was set up as an alternative to moneylenders demanding interest rates of between 100% and 300%. Today, clients pay between 4% and 9% interest and can extend the loan as long as they wish. The average loan is €1,000.

Nine out of 10 people who come here do recuperate the objects they have pawned. But in the economic downturn it is taking them twice as long to do that -- around two years. If they can't pay back the loans the objects they have brought in are sold at auction.

If anything goes for a profit, the original owner pockets the takings after commission and administrative costs.

Rocher's fur was rejected, but she cashed in on the clock. She says it's not what she hoped for, but it is something -- and something that the oldest financial institution in town can do to help down-on-their-luck Parisians through these tough economic times.

[fuzeta]

IN ITALY,A TAXI SAYS ITALIAN SAYS THAT DEBT WAS COMMON,TAX DODGING COMMON.
GERMANY AFTER WAR STARTED WORKING HARD,A GERMAN SAYS I SAVE FOR SOMETHING,DON'T EXCEED WHAT YOU GOT.
UNION BROUGHT TOGETHER DIFFERENT ECONOMIES(FARMING/INDUSTRALISED ETC NATION).
THEY TRIED TO DO A CURRENCY UNION BEFORE A FISCAL/POLITICAL UNION WHICH POSSIBLY CAUSED THE PROBLEMS.
REQUIREMENT WAS COUNTRIES MUST HAVE UNDER 60% debt,italy broke that rule but still joined.
SOME COUNTRIES WERE ONLY JUST MEETING ENTRY RULES,BUT WERE STILL JOINING.
BANKS WERE POSSIBLY HELPING COUNTRIES BREAKING THE RULES/HIDING DEBTS VIA DERIVIATIVES SO THAT COULD SAY DEBTS WERE BIGGER LATER ON.
GREECE HID THEIR DEBTS,EU COMMISSION ACCEPTED THEIR FIGURES.
DEFICIT RULES WERE WEAKENED.
PUBLIC DEBT SOAR BECAUSE JOINING THE EURO REDUCED INTEREST RATES,BECAUSE EVERY NATION PAYED SAME CHEAP RATE AS GERMANY.
CHEAP INTEREST MEANT IRISH/SPANISH PROPERTY DEVELOPERS COULD BORROW TO BUILT HOMES.

THEN LEHMAN BROTHERS COLLAPSED.
EUROZONE FAILED TO PROTECT ITS BANKS.
THEN GREECE RELEAVED ITS DEBTS WERE BIG.
ALRIGHT TO BORROW WHILE THERE WAS A BOOM,THEN BUST RELEAVES DEBTS.
IRISH PROPERTYY DEVELOPER HAD 70MILLION EURO WORTH OF PROPERTY,NOW WORTH 10 MILLION EUROS.
FRANKFURT BANKS REFUSED TO LEND TO EACH OTHER,LEADING TO A POSSIBLE COLLAPSE.
EU APPROVED LOANS TO 100 OF BANKS TO PREVENT COLLAPSE OF BANKING SECTION.
NONE OF MONEY HAS GONE INTO ECONOMY.
MONEY HAS GONE INTO GOVERNMENT BONDS,ISSUED BY GOVERNMENTS SUPPOSEDLY ALSO INSOLVENT AS WELL.
LOANS ONLY BUYS TIME.
COUNTRIES MUST BECOME COMPETATIVE BY CUTTING PUBLIC SERVICES AND CUT WAGES ETC.
LIVING STANDARDS MIGHT HAVE TO DROP BY 30% TO BECOME COMPETATIVE.
Italian have found austerity,closed profession to be opened up.
THINGS MIGHT TURN NASTY,STRIKES IN ITALY.
GERMAN EFFICIENCY HAS CREATED A TRADE SURPLUS.

It sure is a complete mess badboy. Never before has there been such a complete and utter c---k up by the powers that be!

[Angelique]

It is not going well - they will blame Greece for the domino effect if they exit.

The fact that Obama has put in an appearance really confirms that every country will suffer even if not in the Eurozone. What it boils down to is that they want Greece to carry on with austerity to save their necks. They want Greece to carry on buying goods from other countries so in effect continue the debt sprial. They are all guilty even Britain's Banks - as BadBoy says they all borrowed and caused enormous debts which now means the smallest countries can't keep their heads above the water as they too will default.

[Badboy]

it was saying in guardian today that things could dramatically worsen in a few hours.

[Panda]

19 May 2012 Last updated at 00:19 Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

18ShareFacebookTwitter.Eurozone dispute brews as G8 summit leaders gather Angela Merkel spoke by telephone with the Greek president on Friday
Claims that German Chancellor Angela Merkel suggested debt-stricken Greece vote on whether it should stay in the eurozone have sparked a row.

The Greek allegation, which Berlin denies, comes as the US hosts the G8 summit, which is expected to be dominated by the eurozone turmoil.

In Washington, US President Barack Obama said Saturday's meeting would promote a "strong growth agenda".

Investors fear a Greek eurozone exit could trigger a fresh global crisis.

'False' report

Athens said that Chancellor Merkel had suggested on Friday morning that Greece could hold a referendum on the euro when it votes in national elections next month.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis
Mark Lowen

BBC News, Athens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The new spokesman of the caretaker Greek government, Dimitris Tsiodras, told me he had nothing to add since the earlier statement that Angela Merkel had discussed the referendum proposal with the Greek president.

If Chancellor Merkel indeed suggested a referendum on euro membership, it would be an astonishing about-turn. Last November, the then Greek PM George Papandreou formally proposed a referendum - ostensibly on the bailout, but it would have turned out to be on euro membership.

The idea caused outrage from Mrs Merkel and then French President Nicolas Sarkozy, furious that the Greek government could play such a potentially dangerous game with the euro. Mr Papandreou was forced to row back on the proposal - and it ultimately cost him his premiership.

Could Mrs Merkel's suggestion - if it stands (her office denies it was made) - be part of a high-stakes game of brinkmanship? Possibly. Berlin and others are obviously aware that the vast majority of Greeks want to stay in the euro, according to opinion polls. And they are using that fact to their advantage.

A statement from the office of Greece's interim prime minister said that Mrs Merkel had suggested the vote during a telephone call with Greek President Karolos Papoulias.

The German chancellor "conveyed thoughts about a vote parallel to the election with the question to what extent do the Greek citizens wish to remain within the eurozone", said the statement.

"However, it is clear that the matter is beyond the competence of the caretaker government."

But Berlin denied such a proposal had been made.

"This is false and we completely dismiss this," a German government spokeswoman said.

Greece's caretaker government was sworn in this week after elections failed to produce a viable coalition to run the country. New elections have been scheduled for 17 June.

The result of the poll could determine the fate of austerity measures which Greece's international creditors are insisting on.

The power vacuum has spooked investors who fear any refusal by Athens to impose deep spending cuts agreed under a bailout deal could end in the country quitting the bloc of 17 countries that use the euro.

Larger governments in Spain or Italy that are struggling to ease their debt loads might then become vulnerable, potentially triggering wider eurozone upheaval and a global financial crisis to rival 2008.

'Decisive action' needed

The situation is expected to top the agenda as the leaders of the US, Germany, France, Britain, Japan, Russia, Italy and Canada gather for the annual G8 summit, at Camp David near Washington DC.

Francois Hollande and Barack Obama have met for the first time at the White House
Iran's nuclear programme and Syria's crackdown on dissent is also expected to be addressed at Saturday's meeting.

Earlier on Friday, President Obama welcomed the new French President, Francois Hollande, to the White House to discuss economic matters.

Mr Hollande, who took office this month, said he and Mr Obama "have the same conviction that Greece must remain in the eurozone".

Mr Obama said the situation was of great importance not only to Europe, but for the whole world.

The US president said he looked forward to "fruitful" discussions with other G8 leaders, with a strong focus on economic growth.

Mr Hollande also met British Prime Minister David Cameron at the British embassy in Washington.

that can be given to a borrower's debts, indicating that the risk of borrowing defaulting is minuscule.
Glossary in full Mr Cameron said that Greece must decide if it wanted to remain in the euro.

"We need decisive action from eurozone countries in terms of strengthening eurozone banks, in terms of a strong eurozone firewall and decisive action over Greece. That has to be done."

Meanwhile, there was another disagreement as European Union Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht said the bloc's officials were working on contingency plans in case Greece left the eurozone.

He was contradicted by own his colleague, Economic Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn, who said in a statement: "We are not working on the scenario of a Greek exit."

That however still does not rule out the possibility of contingency planning, says the BBC's Matthew Price in Brussels.

After the G8 summit ends on Saturday evening, most of the leaders will decamp to Chicago to join a larger group of international officials for a Nato summit on Sunday and Monday


======================================================

I remember when the previous Greek Prime Minister called for a Referendum many months ago , next thing he was forced to resign , the
EU parachuted in another PM and an "Accountant" to make sure the austerity measures were implemented. Two years down the line and the whole of
the World is at risk , yet if they had let Greece default 2 yrs ago the Country would not owe such massive debts that it can't hope to repay.and the
contagion might have been contained better.

[Panda]

News Sports Email & Tools Sky Customers Join Sky Sky News HD - First for breaking news - Sky channel 517 Skip Navigation Sign up Sign in Site map Search Form Sky News Web Search Text enhanced by: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BREAKING NEWS AFP: One person killed and at least seven others injured after two blasts outside school in Brindisi, ◄►Home UK News World News Business Politics video Showbiz News Technology Strange News Weather Your Videos Your Photos Blogs Contact Us Court Live G8 Set To Push Economic Growth Activist 'Set To Leave China' Greek Euro Exit 'Threatens UK' Olympic Torch Relay Gets Under Way Champions League Black Market Boom Breaking News G8 Summit Set To Push Economic Growth 0 Comments To view this content you need Flash and Javascript enabled in your browser. Please download Flash from the Adobe download website. 7:26am UK, Saturday May 19, 2012 The US president backed his new French counterpart's focus on economic growth as G8 leaders met for a summit overshadowed by fears of Greece's possible exit from the eurozone. Before welcoming world leaders to the summit at his Camp David retreat, Barack Obama held talks with newly inaugurated Francois Hollande at the White House. "We're looking forward to a fruitful discussion later this evening and tomorrow with the other G8 leaders about how we can manage a responsible approach to fiscal consolidation that is coupled with a strong growth agenda," he said afterwards. Mr Hollande was sworn in earlier this week after coming to power on a promise of renegotiating the eurozone's fiscal pact to focus on stimulating economic growth rather than austerity. As world leaders seemingly began to question the austerity measures that have pushed Greece to the brink of leaving the eurzone, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the architect of the tough cuts, looked set to be increasingly isolated. As Mr Obama welcomed his guests one-by-one outside a rustic lodge at the presidential retreat in Maryland, he asked Merkel: "How have you been?" She shrugged and offered a strained smile. "Well, you have a few things on your mind," he said in a brief exchange. Earlier, as British Prime Minister David Cameron met Mr Hollande, the two men agreed they "both want to see countries deal with their deficits and we both want to see economic growth". Mr Cameron told Sky News there was "no conflict between austerity and growth" and insisted he could work with the new French President. However, there was no disguising the sharp difference over the issue of a financial transaction tax, which also formed a key plank of Mr Hollande's election platform. Host President Barack Obama has delicately downgraded this year's meeting, taking his guests back to basics for a "fireside chat" on mutual problems. Read Sky's Adam Boulton on the low hopes for the summit "We are not going to get growth in Europe or in Britain by introducing a new tax that would actually hit people as well as institutions," Mr Cameron said. US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner applauded the apparently softer tone emerging among European leaders. "You are seeing them talk about a better balance between growth and austerity,meaning a somewhat more gradual, softer path toward restoring fiscal sustainability," he said. No major economic policy decisions are expected from the talks but Mr Obama will urge the Europeans to work harder at forging a comprehensive approach to the debt troubles. The prospect that a Greek euro exit would spread upheaval in the currency bloc and engulf much larger economies such as Spain's pushed down world stock markets on Friday. In the initial discussion over dinner at Camp David, the G8 leaders agreed Iran must disclose more about its nuclear ambitions and that North Korea would face increasingly isolation if it "continues down the path of provocation". A move towards political transition in Syria was also discussed, according to officials. The summit kicks off four days of intensive diplomacy - including a Nato meeting in Chicago - that will also focus on the winding down of the unpopular war in Afghanistan and food security. Mr Hollande earlier told the US President he would stick by his campaign pledge to withdraw French combat troops from Afghanistan by the year's end, earlier than the alliance's 2014 timetable.
Recommended Stories You might like: Greek Banks Downgraded Amid Markets Woe (Sky News ) Mum Shoots Dead Four Kids Then Kills Herself (Sky News ) PM Insists Eurozone Needs 'Decisive Action' (Sky News ) Hollande Will Want To Make Mark With Merkel (Sky News ) Seven expensive pension mistakes millions of investors make (Hargreaves Lansdown) Is It Time to Get Rid of the Firewall and Anti-Virus Software? (Computerworld) Forget Greece, Worry About France Instead (Motley Fool UK) Report: iPhone 5 Release Set For June (TechWeek Europe) Banks prepare for the return of the drachma (Reuters) 5 Reasons Why You Can’t Trust Google (FairSearch) (Selected for you by our sponsor ) There are currently no comments for this story. Be the first to comment below, and let us know what you are thinking. Add your comments By posting a comment you are agreeing to abide by our Terms & Conditions. 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Please download Flash from the Adobe download website. 7:26am UK, Saturday May 19, 2012 The US president backed his new French counterpart's focus on economic growth as G8 leaders met for a summit overshadowed by fears of Greece's possible exit from the eurozone. Before welcoming world leaders to the summit at his Camp David retreat, Barack Obama held talks with newly inaugurated Francois Hollande at the White House. "We're looking forward to a fruitful discussion later this evening and tomorrow with the other G8 leaders about how we can manage a responsible approach to fiscal consolidation that is coupled with a strong growth agenda," he said afterwards. Mr Hollande was sworn in earlier this week after coming to power on a promise of renegotiating the eurozone's fiscal pact to focus on stimulating economic growth rather than austerity. As world leaders seemingly began to question the austerity measures that have pushed Greece to the brink of leaving the eurzone, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the architect of the tough cuts, looked set to be increasingly isolated. As Mr Obama welcomed his guests one-by-one outside a rustic lodge at the presidential retreat in Maryland, he asked Merkel: "How have you been?" She shrugged and offered a strained smile. "Well, you have a few things on your mind," he said in a brief exchange. Earlier, as British Prime Minister David Cameron met Mr Hollande, the two men agreed they "both want to see countries deal with their deficits and we both want to see economic growth". Mr Cameron told Sky News there was "no conflict between austerity and growth" and insisted he could work with the new French President. However, there was no disguising the sharp difference over the issue of a financial transaction tax, which also formed a key plank of Mr Hollande's election platform. Host President Barack Obama has delicately downgraded this year's meeting, taking his guests back to basics for a "fireside chat" on mutual problems. Read Sky's Adam Boulton on the low hopes for the summit "We are not going to get growth in Europe or in Britain by introducing a new tax that would actually hit people as well as institutions," Mr Cameron said. US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner applauded the apparently softer tone emerging among European leaders. "You are seeing them talk about a better balance between growth and austerity,meaning a somewhat more gradual, softer path toward restoring fiscal sustainability," he said. No major economic policy decisions are expected from the talks but Mr Obama will urge the Europeans to work harder at forging a comprehensive approach to the debt troubles. The prospect that a Greek euro exit would spread upheaval in the currency bloc and engulf much larger economies such as Spain's pushed down world stock markets on Friday. In the initial discussion over dinner at Camp David, the G8 leaders agreed Iran must disclose more about its nuclear ambitions and that North Korea would face increasingly isolation if it "continues down the path of provocation". A move towards political transition in Syria was also discussed, according to officials. The summit kicks off four days of intensive diplomacy - including a Nato meeting in Chicago - that will also focus on the winding down of the unpopular war in Afghanistan and food security. Mr Hollande earlier told the US President he would stick by his campaign pledge to withdraw French combat troops from Afghanistan by the year's end, earlier than the alliance's 2014 timetable.

[Panda]

Eurozone crisis

Let’s be more American!


18 May 2012
Hospodářské noviny Prague Comment5


The Greek crisis and the lack of assertive action by European leaders has ended up clouding the greatest challenge to the future of the EU. The USA has the knack of finding effective solutions, and it is time to be inspired by the same spirit, argues a Czech columnist.

Martin Ehl

On 6 May, seven parties fought their way into the new Greek parliament. Four of those parties, three left and one right wing, could be labeled – at least from the European mainstream point of view – as extremist. They were unable to form a coalition government and the Greeks will next month head to the polls again [17 June]. However, in the meantime their unreformed country will run out of money and will most likely have to leave the eurozone.

European politicians, including the new French President François Hollande, will thus be drawn into a decision over which they have only limited influence, if any at all. It will be the third time since the autumn of 2009 that European politicians will have to get involved in putting out a fire instead of dealing with its prevention. The acute Greek problem that could have been solved a long time ago by a controlled bankruptcy is once again distracting European leaders from answering deeper questions about the future development of the whole of Europe.

Economic suicide

In the long term, Europe's prosperity will be decided more by the way the eurozone bosses combine support for growth with their politics of cuts than by whether the Greeks choose to commit economic suicide with the help of democratic elections. It looks like Europe is close to doing what it should have done a long time ago: separate Greece from the euro zone.

The Americans, while going through a similar crisis, were able to make quick and crucial strategic decisions. They helped the banking sector and key companies in their domestic economy, such as in the automobile industry. The swift action paid off. State aid has already been returned, Detroit is coming back to life again, while we in Europe are again dancing in a circle.

The Americans looked ahead and made a decision. Europeans, in the face of a major challenge, are instead just zigzagging. In the midst of a European integration crisis we are thus living a different version of a situation described exactly ten years ago by the American thinker Robert Kagan in his famous essay (Of Paradise and Power: America and. Europe in the New World Order.) : Americans are from Mars and Europeans from Venus.

There are also fundamental differences in opinions on how to solve long-term problems: Americans tackle them quickly and aggressively to prevent these problems from compromising their society, their way of life and the stability of their political system. This is also the very reason why Europeans fear quick and long-term solutions: they are living in an intricately constructed post-war protective shell of European integration and welfare state.

A common flag

Europeans are only slowly starting to appreciate that sometime in the future they might have to risk their lives under a common flag and to pay a common tax. Such an eventuality could help reduce the Union’s democratic deficit – taxpayers would then want and be able to better keep an eye on how Brussels spends their money. Nation states will remain a basic functional unit on the European continent for quite some time to come, but the present difficulties in the eurozone and their repeated recurrence should force them to consider the longer time horizon.

Before the upcoming NATO summit (20-21 May 2012 in Chicago), there will surely again be much talk about the state of the transatlantic relationship, about the breaching of bonds between Europe and America. It is therefore worth recalling Kagan’s old idea, but applied to the economic policy: Americans are simply more flexible, more action-minded, they are better at strategic thinking.

If the European Union is to survive as a global, competitive unit, it is left with only one option: to change its culture of short-term strategic thinking within the confines of a comfortable welfare state and four-year electoral cycles. It needs visionaries who will direct it towards further integration, and who will show it where and how it can invest, thereby increasing its competitiveness.

And it needs to say resolutely to those sabotaging the common goals that it is willing to build prosperity without them – subject to their free and democratic choice. Solidarity in Europe has, and has to have, two faces. Only then can the European Union move on in its development.

Translated from the Czech by Pavel Bartuzek

[Panda]

No way out?


18 May 2012

Presseurop


The term coined earlier this year when Greece was negotiating a write-off of part of its debt to the banks, “Grexit” (a portmanteau of ‘Greek’ and ‘exit’ referring to the possibility that the country will be obliged to leave the Eurozone) continues to hang like a sword of Damocles over the Greek population. Both the markets and Greece’s European partners have let it be known, as they did in response to George Papandreou’s October announcement that he would submit the his country’s bailout to a referendum, that, in the absence of “good will” from Athens, the Greek issue will quickly boil down to a simple question: “Do you want to remain in the euro or not?”

Today, in the aftermath of elections that have demonstrated the strength of those opposed to austerity policies demanded by the EU and the IMF and the steep decline in support for the major traditional parties in the country, a Grexit is more than just a rhetorical threat, but a real hypothesis – and one which could definitively materialise in the re-run of elections scheduled for 17 June.

But should we be convinced that a Grexit is the solution? The economists and politicians who have weighed the pros and cons of such a move have failed to provide a convincing case for a Eurozone either with or without Greece. Rather, as Il Sole-24 Ore has noted, the current debate resembles a bluff – and a particularly dangerous bluff for all involved.

Europeans are faced with an impossible choice. A decision to expel Greece from the Eurozone, in a procedure not covered by any European treaty, could result in a loss of confidence in the entire European economic system and undermine the credibility of the EU both as a political project and as world power. At the same time, a drive to maintain the status quo will not only perpetuate policies that are destroying Greece’s social fabric and weaken the cause of democracy in a country that was – as we never tire of saying – its birthplace, but it will also expose Europe to the risk of spending billions of euros for nothing, because the Greek state is now to all intents and purposes a fiction.

In response to a dilemma which has emerged over the fate of a country that accounts for less than 3% of its GDP, Europe has been unable to provide an effective solution. Instead it has been caught in a deadlock arising from its own equivocal status: it is too integrated, both economically and politically, not to be endangered by the Greek crisis, but not sufficiently integrated to provide itself with the means it needs to overcome such an obstacle. Without the single currency and without the single market, it would have been easier to allow the Greeks to default and devalue their currency. At the same time, with the mechanisms for increased coordination of budgetary policies and measures that allow for the imposition of reforms in Greece, particularly with regard to the collection of taxes and the fight against corruption, Europe may be able to push the country towards recovery.

But how can we say to the people of Europe that the solution to the current crisis is more Europe? EU leaders are now paying the bill for more than two decades (from the 1986 Single European Act to the 2009 Lisbon Treaty) of accelerated progress on a road to European integration paved with promises of prosperity which has consistently avoided the issue of democracy in the Union.

Now that the wear and tear on Europe’s institutions has been compounded by the debt crisis, the European project has been caught like a Minotaur lost in a labyrinth, where it is vainly seeking a way out. Or should we say… a “Grexit”?

[Panda]

Published in Investing on 3 April 2012


4comments




Candidates in the upcoming French presidential election are planning big changes to both taxes and public spending.

"Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt. – Herbert Hoover

Last year the world's financial markets were gripped with every twist and turn in the Greek debt saga. But Greece itself wasn't the main concern; it was the fear that if it defaulted the result would be a domino effect which would eventually cause Spain and/or Italy to default.

These two countries are in modern parlance "too big to fail and too big to bail." Happily things calmed down after their new governments passed some much needed economic reforms and when Greece defaulted, though it wasn't called as such, the markets breathed a collective sigh of relief.

But when one crisis is over, there's usually another one just around the corner, and the next trigger could very well be the French presidential election on 22 April. That's because the current favourite is proposing policies which, if implemented, are all but guaranteed to create a new euro zone financial crisis with France at its core.

Vote for me and I'll give you free stuff

George Bernard Shaw once said that "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." Unfortunately, the candidates in the French election, like most politicians nowadays, are treating this as good advice rather than as a warning, and are making all manner of promises to the electorate.

It seems to be working as the current red-hot favourite with Paddy Power (LSE: PAP) is the socialist group's François Hollande, who they are quoting at 4/11 to become France's 24th President.

Hollande is running on a populist platform of a big increase in public spending, which will be funded by tax rises such as a 75% top rate of income tax (90% with social security charges). Higher taxes aren't going to raise enough for his plans, so France would have to fund them by borrowing. The market would probably demand a much higher interest rate for these loans, especially since France recently lost its triple-A credit rating.

The second favourite is the current President Nicolas Sarkozy, who by French standards is a radical free marketer (he's offering far fewer freebies than Hollande), for whom they're offering 7/4 to be re-elected. It's 25-1 bar these two gentlemen.

(An aside: given Paddy Power's reputation for taking unusual bets, such as Bono for the next Pope, I was surprised that they aren't offering a price on the enigmatic footballing genius Eric Cantona who hinted at a Presidential run in January. But they are giving 33-1 on Facebook to win the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize, which on reflection isn't as daft as it sounds.)

Too much debt

France's national debt is about 90% of its gross domestic product, a level which will hamper economic growth. Britain, which has kept its triple-A rating, has a much smaller debt of 65%, though this is projected to approach 77% by 2015.

Leaving aside the argument that most democratic countries' national debts are grossly understated as their governments have indulged in funny money accounting, like the off-balance sheet Private Finance Initiative and by pretending that state pensions aren't liabilities, it's debatable if the French economy can support much more public spending.

But if there is a big post-election increase in public spending, the resulting rise in French interest rates could have a knock-on effect upon most other euro zone countries by driving up their own interest rates, possibly tipping some into recession.

[Panda]

12:18am UK, Sunday May 20, 2012

G8 leaders have expressed hope that debt-stricken Greece stays in the eurozone and vowed to "take all necessary steps" to try to combat the deepening economic turmoil in Europe.
In a statement of support for Europe, the eight leaders of the world's major economies said the global economic recovery shows promising signs but "significant headwinds persist".

"Against this backdrop, we commit to take all necessary steps to strengthen and reinvigorate our economies and combat financial stresses, recognising that the right measures are not the same for each of us," they said in a communique.

The leaders said they welcomed discussions in Europe to balance debt reduction with measures to support growth.


The words on the eurozone in the final economic statement bear the marks of compromise.

Sky News' political editor Adam Boulton
They stressed the importance of a "strong and cohesive" eurozone and reaffirmed their interest in Greece remaining a member while honouring its commitments to tackle its deficit.

"We all have an interest in the success of specific measures to strengthen the resilience of the eurozone and growth in Europe," they said.

"We support euro area leaders' resolve to address the strains in the eurozone in a credible and timely manner and in a manner that fosters confidence, stability and growth."

The leaders are meeting at US President Barack Obama's Camp David retreat to seek ways to restore confidence in global financial markets after the risk of Greece leaving the eurozone and Spain's banking problems sent world stocks to their lowest levels this year.

Earlier, Mr Obama opened the summit promising to try to find ways to restore healthy growth and jobs, and address concerns in Europe.



The round table discussions between the leaders at Camp David

"All of us are absolutely committed to making sure that both growth and stability, and fiscal consolidation, are part of an overall package in order to achieve the kind of prosperity for our citizens we all are looking for," he said.

After an early morning treadmill workout with Mr Obama at the gym, Prime Minister David Cameron said he detected a "growing sense of urgency that action needs to be taken" on the crisis.

"What is required is a sense of urgency and then clear actions for strong banks, strong deficit reduction plans, strong governance and strong contingency plans for whatever might happen," he said.

"On all those things I think there's a good sense of talks taking place and a good sense that action needs to follow."

Before welcoming the leaders to the summit, Mr Obama met the newly-inaugurated Francois Hollande at the White House and backed his new French counterpart's focus on economic growth.



Mr Hollande was sworn in earlier this week after coming to power on a promise of renegotiating the eurozone's fiscal pact to focus on stimulating economic growth rather than austerity.

Inevitably that brought tensions with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the architect of the austerity measures that have pushed Greece to the brink of leaving the eurozone.

Mrs Merkel insisted Germany and France were in agreement on the need for both growth and austerity, saying: "Otherwise we would not have been able to agree on a statement."

However, the G8 statement noted "the right measures are not the same for each of us".


This may come to be remembered as the 'Treadmill Summit'. The image arises because David Cameron and Barack Obama chose to hold their one-on-one bilateral discussions this morning during a 7.15am walk to and from the Camp David gym.

Sky News' political editor Adam Boulton
Other discussions focused on Iran and the ongoing bloodshed in Syria.

G8 leaders sent a strong message to the Islamic Republic that tough energy sanctions would be firmly applied, vowing to ensure oil markets are adequately supplied and to prevent soaring crude prices.

The move came days before the next round of nuclear talks between global powers and Iran that will take place in Baghdad on Wednesday.

Mr Obama told the G8 leaders that Syrian President Bashar al Assad must give up power, and pointed to Yemen as a model of how political transition could work there.

Washington's patience has been wearing thin with Mr Assad, who said he would adhere to a UN-Arab League peace plan but has failed to bring violence to a full halt.

The summit marked the start of four days of intensive diplomacy - including a Nato meeting in Chicago - that will also focus on the winding down of the war in Afghanistan and food security.

[AnnaEsse]

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16231561

Greece's former finance minister has told Sky News that if Greece reneges on its bailout deal with the EU and the IMF it will "open the door to hell".

Sky News last interviewed George Papaconstantinou two-and-a-half years ago.

In December 2009 he told how Greece could survive independently and Greece's creditors had nothing to fear - they would get back every euro they were owed.

A lot has changed since then.

Greece is in the process of borrowing 240bn euros of emergency loans from the EU and the IMF (in return for pledges to raise taxes, cut spending and balance the books) and investors holding Greek debt have been forced write off up to 50% of their money.

Even now Greece remains heavily in debt, deep in recession (now in its fifth year) and without a functioning elected government.

Mr Papaconstantinou lost his position as finance minister last summer, shortly after the second bailout package was agreed.

In the general election, two weeks ago, he also lost his seat as an MP. He was not alone as support for his Pasok party collapsed.

The result of the election was inconclusive and, ultimately, no party was able to form a coalition government. In four weeks' time Greece will vote again.

The opinion polls suggest that were an election to be held tomorrow the result would, once again be inconclusive, but the Syriza party, which is promising to "tear up" the bailout agreement with the EU and the IMF, continues to attract support.

Mr Papaconstantinou is the man who negotiated Greece's participation in the bailout deal and he says understands that the people of Greece are angry.

"People have had wage cuts, pension cuts, tax rises... and unemployment has gone through the roof - we need to respond to this," he told Sky News.

Interestingly, he admits there are elements of the bailout deal that he would seek to renegotiate but he says if Greece were to do what Syriza's leader, Alexis Tsipras, is proposing and fail to honour the promises the country has made in return for emergency funding then the results would be disastrous.

"The extremist parties are lying to the Greek people because they are not telling them that reneging on the agreement means that you have opened the door to hell," he said.

Syriza is promising voters it will not only reject the austerity measures it says are keeping Greece in recession but will also keep Greece in the eurozone.

Mr Papaconstantinou is clear that Syriza cannot deliver on both.

"The first thing that happens is the money (from the EU and IMF) stops flowing to Greece, the second thing that happens is people start worrying about their deposits in the banks, the third thing that happens is the banking system is in danger of collapsing and then you have to defend it even by sending in the army and the police on to the streets to avoid a bank run," he said.

"There are no easy solutions. Either we stay within the framework we have all agreed or we tear it up, in which case we have a complete and utter catastrophe."

In the general election in 2009 Syriza attracted barely 5% of the vote. Two weeks ago it managed 17%.

Some of the most recent opinion polls suggest Syriza is now Greece's most popular party and that 25% of the population say they will vote for the party on June 17.

That is not quite enough support for Syriza to form a government but it does suggest that the party's aggressive, defiant message is increasingly capturing the public mood.

It is also more than enough support to unsettle the financial markets and give the leaders of other eurozone countries a few sleepless nights.

[Panda]

"The first thing that happens is the money (from the EU and IMF) stops flowing to Greece, the second thing that happens is people start worrying about their deposits in the banks, the third thing that happens is the banking system is in danger of collapsing and then you have to defend it even by sending in the army and the police on to the streets to avoid a bank run," he said."

AnnaEsse, there is a run on the Bank now, not as bad as Northern Rock where customers queued to get their money out, and the latest poll suggests the Greek people do not want to leave the Euro. Equally, they cannot hope to achieve the 3%GDP with the mountainous debt incurring high yields to
be paid annually. Had Greece been allowed to make an orderly default 2 years ago it would have saved Greece incurring all this exrtra debt, but the IMF
and Merkel were terrified of a contagion so were willing to bail Greece out , now it is 10 timese worse because Spain and Italy are very vulnerable ,
Ireland, Portugal and Belgium , even France . That's almost half the Eurozone.!!!!

[AnnaEsse]

"The first thing that happens is the money (from the EU and IMF) stops flowing to Greece, the second thing that happens is people start worrying about their deposits in the banks, the third thing that happens is the banking system is in danger of collapsing and then you have to defend it even by sending in the army and the police on to the streets to avoid a bank run," he said."

AnnaEsse, there is a run on the Bank now, not as bad as Northern Rock where customers queued to get their money out, and the latest poll suggests the Greek people do not want to leave the Euro. Equally, they cannot hope to achieve the 3%GDP with the mountainous debt incurring high yields to
be paid annually. Had Greece been allowed to make an orderly default 2 years ago it would have saved Greece incurring all this exrtra debt, but the IMF
and Merkel were terrified of a contagion so were willing to bail Greece out , now it is 10 timese worse because Spain and Italy are very vulnerable ,
Ireland, Portugal and Belgium , even France . That's almost half the Eurozone.!!!!

Yes, I've read about the run on the banks and reckon it will carry on and become critical. Also, with certain Spanish banks being downgraded and the UK's arm of Santander being downgraded, I'm wondering if there will be efforts by some to move their savings elsewhere.

[Panda]

"The first thing that happens is the money (from the EU and IMF) stops flowing to Greece, the second thing that happens is people start worrying about their deposits in the banks, the third thing that happens is the banking system is in danger of collapsing and then you have to defend it even by sending in the army and the police on to the streets to avoid a bank run," he said."

AnnaEsse, there is a run on the Bank now, not as bad as Northern Rock where customers queued to get their money out, and the latest poll suggests the Greek people do not want to leave the Euro. Equally, they cannot hope to achieve the 3%GDP with the mountainous debt incurring high yields to
be paid annually. Had Greece been allowed to make an orderly default 2 years ago it would have saved Greece incurring all this exrtra debt, but the IMF
and Merkel were terrified of a contagion so were willing to bail Greece out , now it is 10 timese worse because Spain and Italy are very vulnerable ,
Ireland, Portugal and Belgium , even France . That's almost half the Eurozone.!!!!

Yes, I've read about the run on the banks and reckon it will carry on and become critical. Also, with certain Spanish banks being downgraded and the UK's arm of Santander being downgraded, I'm wondering if there will be efforts by some to move their savings elsewhere.

I posted earlier on the U.K. thread about Santander U.K.. Apparently the bank applied to the FSA last December to have the Bank in th U.K. declared
a seperate entity from Santander in Spain because all their Business is British. This has been agreed so Santander Spain cannot make any claim on
Santander U.K. assets. Apparently several U.K. Banks have loaned Euro Banks money and there is a danger they will not be repaid.

What a bl***y mess these Bankers have caused , yet successive Governments let them get away with it.

[Panda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez-88_hIrLY&feature=youtu.be

This is very interesting ....perhaps now people will see that Nigel Farrange was right.!!

[Badboy]

I TALKED TO MY BROTHER ABOUT SANTANDER BECAUSE HIS WIFE HAS AN ACCOUNT THERE.
SEEMS PROBLEM IS CONTAINED FROM A UK POINT OF VIEW,MY RBS BRANCH IS TO CONVERT TO SANTANDER.

[Panda]

I TALKED TO MY BROTHER ABOUT SANTANDER BECAUSE HIS WIFE HAS AN ACCOUNT THERE.
SEEMS PROBLEM IS CONTAINED FROM A UK POINT OF VIEW,MY RBS BRANCH IS TO CONVERT TO SANTANDER.

Hi Badboy, did you see the Report I posted on Santander UK.....on the U.K. Thread.

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