The Truth of the Lie - The Gaspar Statements

In the past few days I started to re-read this book, just to refresh in my mind Amaral's thoughts contained in the book.

Something I had not seen the first time I read it struck me.

The following paragraph appears when dealing with the Gaspar statements:


"This witness statement for the couple SG and KG is taken by the English police on May 16th thirteen days after Madeleine's disapperance. That inforamtion, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portugese police. When the Portugese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements - they tell the English police, who, even at this piont, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject".


So, it appears to me that there was a similar accusation to that made by the Gaspers, made by somebody else about the holiday in Greece. I had not heard this before. Although it appears it was not made in the same formal way as the Gasper statement, who would the witness have been that spoke to the Portugese ? The Gasper statement related to Majorca, definately not Greece.

This is new to me, apologies if others are already aware of it. For those who are already aware, what was discovered or discussed about this in the past ?

Very interesting. I'd not heard this before either.

According to O'Brien's statements the MCs weren't in Greece it was the other three couples. Nothing about anyone else being present.

Chris wrote:According to O'Brien's statements the MCs weren't in Greece it was the other three couples. Nothing about anyone else being present.

Yes, I don't believe the McCs were on the Greece
trip but DP seems to have been the organiser and
central figure on all the trips.

Chris wrote:According to O'Brien's statements the MCs weren't in Greece it was the other three couples. Nothing about anyone else being present.

You are correct, they were not in Greece, but David Payne was in Greece and it is he who is the subject matter of the Gasper statement. What I wonder is if there were a similar accusation made on the Greek holiday but obviously not in relation to Madeleine.

mossman wrote:

Chris wrote:According to O'Brien's statements the MCs weren't in Greece it was the other three couples. Nothing about anyone else being present.

You are correct, they were not in Greece, but David Payne was in Greece and it is he who is the subject matter of the Gasper statement. What I wonder is if there were a similar accusation made on the Greek holiday but obviously not in relation to Madeleine.

I'd really like to know where the McCanns went on holiday in 2006. Anyone know?

Which holiday did they Gaspers go on with DP? Was that Greece?

mossman wrote:

Chris wrote:According to O'Brien's statements the MCs weren't in Greece it was the other three couples. Nothing about anyone else being present.

You are correct, they were not in Greece, but David Payne was in Greece and it is he who is the subject matter of the Gasper statement. What I wonder is if there were a similar accusation made on the Greek holiday but obviously not in relation to Madeleine.

Perhaps more important is that it only seems to have been the other three couples so unless statements have been taken from those not linked to the holiday party it must be from within the six.

wjk wrote:Which holiday did they Gaspers go on with DP? Was that Greece?

The Gaspers were in Majorca with Paynes, McCanns and also Stuart and Tara Gold. The Gold couple took the place of Tanner and O'Brien, they were supposed to travel but she discovered she was pregnant and changed her mind.

tigger wrote:

mossman wrote:

Chris wrote:According to O'Brien's statements the MCs weren't in Greece it was the other three couples. Nothing about anyone else being present.

You are correct, they were not in Greece, but David Payne was in Greece and it is he who is the subject matter of the Gasper statement. What I wonder is if there were a similar accusation made on the Greek holiday but obviously not in relation to Madeleine.

I'd really like to know where the McCanns went on holiday in 2006. Anyone know?

I believe in October they went to guernsey with a different couple, that was 2006 but I dont know where they went prior to that.

mossman wrote:

wjk wrote:Which holiday did they Gaspers go on with DP? Was that Greece?

The Gaspers were in Majorca with Paynes, McCanns and also Stuart and Tara Gold. The Gold couple took the place of Tanner and O'Brien, they were supposed to travel but she discovered she was pregnant and changed her mind.

Thanks mossman.
They never seem to go on holiday as a family do they. Always with other couples. I must be anti-social, because when mine were little I used to love spending time as a family. Even though the furthest we got was Wales and lovely it was too.

"This witness statement for the couple SG and KG is taken by the English police on May 16th thirteen days after Madeleine's disapperance. That inforamtion, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portugese police. When the Portugese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements - they tell the English police, who, even at this piont, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject".

The word allegedly sticks out at me, and without obtaining reliable witness statements. Why did they not obtain reliable witness statements? Is this something or nothing? The police have to have proof. It then goes on to say they told the English police who refrain from revealing what they know on the subject. Perhaps that is because they had no proof either.

The way this is written, it sounds like nothing more than suspicion and it needs backing up with concrete proof, and it sounds like neither the Portuguese nor the English had this necessary proof.

LJC wrote:

"This witness statement for the couple SG and KG is taken by the English police on May 16th thirteen days after Madeleine's disapperance. That inforamtion, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portugese police. When the Portugese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements - they tell the English police, who, even at this piont, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject".

The word allegedly sticks out at me, and without obtaining reliable witness statements. Why did they not obtain reliable witness statements? Is this something or nothing? The police have to have proof. It then goes on to say they told the English police who refrain from revealing what they know on the subject. Perhaps that is because they had no proof either.

The way this is written, it sounds like nothing more than suspicion and it needs backing up with concrete proof, and it sounds like neither the Portuguese nor the English had this necessary proof.

LJC when read in context with the actual chapter, what I understand Amaral to be saying is this. They (the PJ) had this allegation, unsubstantiated, and reported it to the UK police. What he is then saying is that even at that stage, the UK did not release the Gasper statement they had in their possession. So it is not no proof on the part of the English, the point about the UK is the Gasper statement. They had it, were aware of it, but did not reveal it at that stage to the PJ.

Of course, it does say allegedly etc in relation to Greece, just intersting that Amaral choose to publish it in the book.

Lets not forget the comment from Sofia Leal. Not the kind of 'casual' comment one would expect....there is a reason she said something that would suggest something so controversial.


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/09/mccanns-want-amarals-family-home.html

The McCann couple via their lawyer [Isabel Duarte] applied for Sofia Leal to execute a separation of assets, as foreseen by law. She refused and in August the court carried into completion the full arrest. “My husband and I have never abandoned our daughters, or allowed paedophiles in our circle of friends. I am shocked that a couple who affirm to be religious is seeking out to destroy our family”, said Sofia Leal.

Wasn't Payne the only one that was heared by the police in the rogatory hearings without precence of the Portuguese?

mossman wrote:

LJC wrote:

"This witness statement for the couple SG and KG is taken by the English police on May 16th thirteen days after Madeleine's disapperance. That inforamtion, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portugese police. When the Portugese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements - they tell the English police, who, even at this piont, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject".

The word allegedly sticks out at me, and without obtaining reliable witness statements. Why did they not obtain reliable witness statements? Is this something or nothing? The police have to have proof. It then goes on to say they told the English police who refrain from revealing what they know on the subject. Perhaps that is because they had no proof either.

The way this is written, it sounds like nothing more than suspicion and it needs backing up with concrete proof, and it sounds like neither the Portuguese nor the English had this necessary proof.

LJC when read in context with the actual chapter, what I understand Amaral to be saying is this. They (the PJ) had this allegation, unsubstantiated, and reported it to the UK police. What he is then saying is that even at that stage, the UK did not release the Gasper statement they had in their possession. So it is not no proof on the part of the English, the point about the UK is the Gasper statement. They had it, were aware of it, but did not reveal it at that stage to the PJ.

Of course, it does say allegedly etc in relation to Greece, just intersting that Amaral choose to publish it in the book.

That's what I make of it too, the Gaspar statement is a reliable statement, held back for four months by LP. Only sent when the McCanns are back in the UK.
Probably the PJ has made enquires re the previous holiday in Greece, which was on the same pattern PdL - a logical step imo. Also MW.
Amaral says that there is evidence , but no reliable witness statements, they duly pass this information to LP who still don't given them the Gaspar statement.
That's how I read it.

Bebootje, I would think that Payne particularly would have been heared in the presence of PJ. I believe they were never present in the room with the LP - but in an adjoining room with a one-way window into the interview room. That's the impression I had. May be wrong, but Payne's RI is the worst of the lot. Full of inconsistencies.

Could the allegations about the holiday in Greece have been an anonymous tip off or telephone call? Hence they couldn't get a statement. Just a thought.

chrissie wrote:Could the allegations about the holiday in Greece have been an anonymous tip off or telephone call? Hence they couldn't get a statement. Just a thought.

Or possibly an observation from a MW staff member who had something relayed to him/her by someone they knew from MW Greece

Chris wrote:

chrissie wrote:Could the allegations about the holiday in Greece have been an anonymous tip off or telephone call? Hence they couldn't get a statement. Just a thought.

Or possibly an observation from a MW staff member who had something relayed to him/her by someone they knew from MW Greece

Good point, another possibility.

wjk wrote:

mossman wrote:

wjk wrote:Which holiday did they Gaspers go on with DP? Was that Greece?

The Gaspers were in Majorca with Paynes, McCanns and also Stuart and Tara Gold. The Gold couple took the place of Tanner and O'Brien, they were supposed to travel but she discovered she was pregnant and changed her mind.

Thanks mossman.
They never seem to go on holiday as a family do they. Always with other couples. I must be anti-social, because when mine were little I used to love spending time as a family. Even though the furthest we got was Wales and lovely it was too.

The fact that the McCanns always seem to holiday in a group struck me in the beginning. I have mentioned this before and cannot understand why they had to have groups round them. Insecure or don't like spending time either together or with the kids?

The mccanns have already insinuated that the reason they go on holidays with lots off people is so the kids cAn have someone to play with .....re their Irish holiday .


Palm them off so they can have 'me' time ....they cant do that when they holiday on their own...don't forget they went to guernsey with another couple in October 2006.

LJC when read in context with the actual chapter, what I understand Amaral to be saying is this. They (the PJ) had this allegation, unsubstantiated, and reported it to the UK police. What he is then saying is that even at that stage, the UK did not release the Gasper statement they had in their possession. So it is not no proof on the part of the English, the point about the UK is the Gasper statement. They had it, were aware of it, but did not reveal it at that stage to the PJ.

This is how I read it too. From day one the mccanns and the British Establishment have only ever rammed down everyones throats (despite all the evidence against them) that it was an abduction, nothing more nothing but an abduction, abduction, abduction. Leicestershire Police withheld the Gaspar statement so the PJ would not be detracted from the abduction theory and not start looking into the mccanns and their friends. In my book this is perverting the course of justice and Leicestershire Police should be held to account

The PJ say their biggest mistake was not looking at the mccanns a lot sooner but they kept being deflected into the abduction theory and therefore wasted many months of valuable time which could have closed this case years ago had they not been pretty much forced to investigate only the abduction story. It also interesting to note that 3 days after the Gaspar statement was made, gerry mccann makes a dash back to Leicester and goes to Leicestershire Police station as this is where he first meets clarence mitchell...We all know how 'matey' gerry and Stu were so doesn't take much thought that he saw the statements and most likely why he made the dash back

It also interesting to note that 3 days after the Gaspar statement was made, gerry mccann makes a dash back to Leicester and goes to Leicestershire Police station as this is where he first meets clarence mitchell...

I never knew that this is where Gerry first met Clarrie