What Happened to Madeleine McCann

http://freepdfhosting.com/9099bef539.pdf


I don't know where I got this from , I was looking for something else....it's a Free Kindle Book you might wish to download and read at your leisure, page 1 is interesting because it highlights all the different stories told about the shutters.

I got there first with a mention, Panda!

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t23922-richard-madeley-on-this-morning#448181

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I got there first with a mention, Panda!

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t23922-richard-madeley-on-this-morning#448181

I didn't know NBY, you should have posted it seperately because it stands alone .The Page where all the tapas group confirm that the shutters were open must have been discussed while they were filling in the times on the back of the childs book. 

Panda wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I got there first with a mention, Panda!

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t23922-richard-madeley-on-this-morning#448181

I didn't know NBY, you should have posted it seperately because it stands alone .The Page where all the tapas group confirm that the shutters were open must have been discussed while they were filling in the times on the back of the childs book. 

WHAT GERRY McCANN TOLD POLICE :
"To my surprise I realised I could lift up the window shutters without effort and almost without making noise."

HOW could Gerry have lifted up a window shutter that has ALREADY been raised up? (according to KM)
Convienently forgetting that the previous occupant of 5A has already said that the shutters made a great noise when being lowered or raised.

"I thought it was quite hot and I didn't need to cover her up."

JT thought it was quite chilly!

Kate McCanns pledge:
Kate McCann told police: "While we were having breakfast, Maddie said, 'Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?'

"Gerry and I spoke for a couple of minutes and agreed to keep a closer watch over the children."

So despite her chat with G to agree to keep a closer watch over the children, she STILL went out again, leaving the children ALONE, again, and didn't see the children for one and a half HOURS!

THAT "closer watch" worked well then, didn't it?

jeanmonroe wrote:

Panda wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I got there first with a mention, Panda!

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t23922-richard-madeley-on-this-morning#448181

I didn't know NBY, you should have posted it seperately because it stands alone .The Page where all the tapas group confirm that the shutters were open must have been discussed while they were filling in the times on the back of the childs book. 

WHAT GERRY McCANN TOLD POLICE :
"To my surprise I realised I could lift up the window shutters without effort and almost without making noise."

HOW could Gerry have lifted up a window shutter that has ALREADY been raised up? (according to KM)
Convienently forgetting that the previous occupant of 5A has already said that the shutters made a great noise when being lowered or raised.

"I thought it was quite hot and I didn't need to cover her up."

JT thought it was quite chill

Kate McCanns pledge:
Kate McCann told police: "While we were having breakfast, Maddie said, 'Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?'

"Gerry and I spoke for a couple of minutes and agreed to keep a closer watch over the children."

So despite her chat with G to agree to keep a closer watch over the children, she STILL went out again, leaving the children ALONE, again, and didn't see the children for one and a half HOURS!

THAT "closer watch" worked well then, didn't it?

The SY team did not need a Review, all they had to do was liaise with the Portugese to say a reconstruction the Group did not attend was necessary for SY to proceed, The Group could hardly refuse, actors/actresses could be engaged for the rest of the statements made by Staff etc and one of the Group would have broken down.

Quite likely, Panda.

comperedna wrote:Quite likely, Panda.

Don't you get the feeling comparedna that we would have done better, the Police on both sides are more keystone cops than Detectives. 

Currently in this heat I can't think straight! Better not post till later when the sun goes down. Today is a day I think that after all this effort, the answer will be not a dead paedophile, but 'inconclusive - we did all we could'.

Panda wrote:

comperedna wrote:Quite likely, Panda.

Don't you get the feeling comparedna that we would have done better, the Police on both sides are more keystone cops than Detectives. 

Don't insult the Portuguese police please

chrissie wrote:

Panda wrote:

comperedna wrote:Quite likely, Panda.

Don't you get the feeling comparedna that we would have done better, the Police on both sides are more keystone cops than Detectives. 

Don't insult the Portuguese police please

I do think they were too soft on the McCanns, Madeleine was not Portugese, the influx of Reporters camped every day waiting for the daily report from the PR's, a secondary investigation started by the McCanns which is prohibited under Portugese Law . I think the Portugese should have been more firm and suggested to the McCanns that they were impeding procedure and maybe they should return home and be kept informed of progress. The British Embassy in Portugal would have also kept them informed. To add insult to injury the Tapas 9 decided it was not worth returning to Portugal for a recon.which you would agree chrissie, the PJ left it a long time to suggest.

can you imagine the UK headlines if that had happened Panda. Maybe there were instructions on high, after all wasn't it said that the McCs had to be accompanied by a member of the British consulate during questioning etc. Its not good saying the Pj were too soft or whatever because we don't know what political pressure was put on them, and im be sure there was. don't forget Panda, it was then a joint investigation becaujse representatives were in Portugal at the time. Why if they had no jurisdiction? jimo.

jeanmonroe wrote:
So despite her chat with G to agree to keep a closer watch over the children, she STILL went out again, leaving the children ALONE, again, and didn't see the children for one and a half HOURS!

THAT "closer watch" worked well then, didn't it?

I think this is missing the point a little, or maybe I have misunderstood.

All of these things were said afterwards. If we do not believe the key element of their story, I think it is ok to assume that any other part maybe is not true.


KM had to justify after Madeleine disappeared why they left the children crying day(s) before. I think any logical / sensible person can see that if the crying situation occurred, then you would definitely not leave the children alone again that same week or that same holiday.

So I do not believe this happened at all.

The conclusion of this is not nice. We know they do 'leave' her again for the meal, but logic tells me that to do this they must have known that at that point she did not need caring for, or that some other element such as a cover story was needed.

DavidA wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:
So despite her chat with G to agree to keep a closer watch over the children, she STILL went out again, leaving the children ALONE, again, and didn't see the children for one and a half HOURS!

THAT "closer watch" worked well then, didn't it?

I think this is missing the point a little, or maybe I have misunderstood.

All of these things were said afterwards. If we do not believe the key element of their story, I think it is ok to assume that any other part maybe is not true.


KM had to justify after Madeleine disappeared why they left the children crying day(s) before. I think any logical / sensible person can see that if the crying situation occurred, then you would definitely not leave the children alone again that same week or that same holiday.

So I do not believe this happened at all.

The conclusion of this is not nice. We know they do 'leave' her again for the meal, but logic tells me that to do this they must have known that at that point she did not need caring for, or that some other element such as a cover story was needed.

I concur entirely.
As in the case of Tariq Jahan, "hero" of riots and hugely lauded by Cameron and Miliband as such, who admitted to and said in court when asked why he lied, he said he was trying to protect his family and that "one lie can turn into a thousand lies and then there's no turning back".

The McCanns have certainly lied, given their ever changing versions of things, ie where JW was chatting to Gerry, Gerry feigning great shock when JT tells him she saw a man carrying a child 5 HOURS (3am 04/05/2007) after the event when Gerry McCann has already PERSONALLY signed his name on the second hand written timeline 2 HOURS after event which includes JT "sees strange walking carrying a child."
(which was also written on EARLIER first hand written timeline)

Yes, i'm afraid that once somebody has been proven to tell lies one just dosen't believe another word from them after that.
And the lies started straight away with the McCanns telling us the shutters were jemmied, broken etc.
Disproven within an hour by the resorts own manager.
_________________________________________________________
"one lie can turn into a thousand lies and then there's no turning back".

Why are we getting all this rubbish about suspects NOW!!!!! Redwood appeared on TV several weeks ago to tell us of the 190, reduced to 38 possible leads that they would be investigating , yet failed at the time to get the necessary permission ???? It is obvious that the PJ does not set much store by these leads , otherwise it would have been a joint investigation .

I think that SY are just covering ALL the bases Panda..they need any charges to be absolutely watertight to proceed...The McCanns ability to lie and cover their own backsides is legendary and I think SY know that...the PJ certainly did.

I think it is a very thorough, albeit slow moving process of eliminate absolutely everything else, leaving only that which cannot be discarded or explained, and we all know that leads directly to the McCann themselves...and I do believe that SY know it too

Also don't forget, this is mainly just media spin to sell newspapers, much of it is purely conjecture by the press, and I don't imagine that SY are giving them a running commentary on what is being done in the investigation

susible wrote:I think that SY are just covering ALL the bases Panda..they need any charges to be absolutely watertight to proceed...The McCanns ability to lie and cover their own backsides is legendary and I think SY know that...the PJ certainly did.

I think it is a very thorough, albeit slow moving process of eliminate absolutely everything else, leaving only that which cannot be discarded or explained, and we all know that leads directly to the McCann themselves...and I do believe that SY know it too

If that's the case susible, Hi BTW, why is Redwood shooting his mouth off all the time????? Who is giving all this information to the Press about Letter of Request delaying the process, it has to be someone close to the case. SY , Redwood in particular should be more circumspect , he is a very Senior Detective and should know better.

Hi Panda. The letter of request thing was initially mentioned in the big press announcement, stating that it had already been sent, journos obviously asked the Portuguese about this and they denied that they had received it (which actually makes me think SY had no intention of sending it because they know they don't need to make arrests in Portugal) this of course meant that Redwood had to backtrack and actually send the LOR, which has apparently now happened, though I still don't think they will officially question any Portuguese citizens (apart possibly from Murat) as I think they know exactly who they have to question and they are right here in the UK...and the rest is just spin IMO

susible wrote:Hi Panda.  The letter of request thing was initially mentioned in the big press announcement, stating that it had already been sent, journos obviously asked the Portuguese about this and they denied that they had received it (which actually makes me think SY had no intention of sending it because they know they don't need to make arrests in Portugal) this of course meant that Redwood had to backtrack and actually send the LOR, which has apparently now happened, though I still don't think they will officially question any Portuguese citizens (apart possibly from Murat) as I think they know exactly who they have to question and they are right here in the UK...and the rest is just spin IMO

Wouldn't it be great susible if the Tapas 9?, then went back to finish his steak???? were hauled in and forced to do a recon of their movements thar night. I remember reading a long time ago a statement from Oldfields Solicitor saying his client would be returning to Portugal to amend his Statement. I suspect it was because he first of all said he looked into the room but amended it to listening outside. We all know Tanner's statement is rubbish , OBrien too, one minute called away because his child was sick , he washed the sheet and hung it over the Balcony to dry, then went back to finish his steak.!!!

When the Portugese Police rented 5a for one year and read their Statements why the hell didn't they demand a recon then??? It would have been the right thing to do as Investigators., not wat until the McCanns were back in the U.K.

I think the PJ had so much on their plate with the huge media presence camped on the doorstep of 5a that it was impossible for them to proceed without interference and I think so many of the facts had been obfuscated that once the Mc's had been arguidoed the easiest route was to let them leave Portugal and go from there, although I suspect the PJ at that point knew that unless they had the key piece of evidence of a body, they were unlikely to be able to build a watertight case against the McCanns, resulting in the shelving of the case and the arguido status being lifted.

I think though that all of the police forces involved were very aware of this, but at that time they did not have the resources to continue..then out of the blue David Cameron orders a review, which has now morphed into an investigation, so the reconstruction may well take place in the future, because once all of the blind alleys have been searched and found to be dead ends, there's only one way the investigation can go and I think that's why the SY approach seems to be so laid back..they're not in any hurry, getting it right is far more important IMO

susible wrote:I think the PJ had so much on their plate with the huge media presence camped on the doorstep of 5a that it was impossible for them to proceed without interference and I think so many of the facts had been obfuscated that once the Mc's had been arguidoed the easiest route was to let them leave Portugal and go from there, although I suspect the PJ at that point knew that unless they had the key piece of evidence of a body, they were unlikely to be able to build a watertight case against the McCanns, resulting in the shelving of the case and the arguido status being lifted.

I think though that all of the police forces involved were very aware of this, but at that time they did not have the resources to continue..then out of the blue David Cameron orders a review, which has now morphed into an investigation, so the reconstruction may well take place in the future, because once all of the blind alleys have been searched and found to be dead ends, there's only one way the investigation can go and I think that's why the SY approach seems to be so laid back..they're not in any hurry, getting it right is far more important IMO

Well, I hope your'e right susible but for me SY are much too Press orientated than quietly getting on with the job of gathering all the evidence for the investigation . Shut up Redwood, stop feeding the Press and your Ego. 

Panda wrote:
When the Portugese Police rented 5a for one year and read their Statements why the hell didn't they demand a recon then??? It would have been the right thing to do as Investigators., not wat until the McCanns were back in the U.K.

The Portuguese police didn't rent 5A as far as I'm aware.
And also, do we know definitely it was Oldfield who wanted to change his statement?

wjk wrote:

Panda wrote:
When the Portugese Police rented 5a for one year and read their Statements why the hell didn't they demand a recon then??? It would have been the right thing to do as Investigators., not wat until the McCanns were back in the U.K.

The Portuguese police didn't rent 5A as far as I'm aware.
And also, do we know definitely it was Oldfield who wanted to change his statement?

Actually wjk , they did rent , from Mrs McCann , the owner , I think it was Annabel , a while ago who found the evidence. The Apartment was rented to the Police for a year , probably starting from 3rd May. Oldfield was as far as I know a press report, but there may be more information in mccannfiles

I'm gonna watch the Cricket now, catch up later.

I don't think it was rented by the Portuguese police, does anyone have a link to this info?
I've searched but can't find anything.

For the 100th time, 5A was NOT rented by the PJ. No matter how many times I will read it, I will always challenge something I KNOW to be untrue. I checked with two different people. And ridiculous newspaper articles with translation errors do not count as evidence, as I said many times before. 5A WAS NOT rented by the PJ and any PJ officer will   at that possibility.