Re: Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014

**AnnaEsse** Sat 16 Aug - 9:09

Pat Brown was already a very successful criminal profiler when she decided to comment on the Madeleine McCann case.

**Angelina** Sat 16 Aug - 9:58

Undoubtedly PB is a very clever woman who is very good at what she does.

However, interesting though her comments on the case were, it was very unlikely that she could ever make a difference to the investigation.

I was always mystified why a lot of posters put such store on PB going out to Pt...as if she could solve it just by going out there.

What anyone thinks of PB is neither here nor there..the only important thing is the case being solved and those guilty sent to prison and PB's views/profiling will not enter into it one iota.

**Lioned** Sat 16 Aug - 10:07

'Beleddie' has been a member of this forum for 6 years and has made 139 posts in that time.Accepting that many people will have reasons for not being able to post regularly that is not much of a contribution to the 'cause'.
Pat Brown will undoubtedly have her reasons for withdrawing from commenting for the moment.I expect her to be back at some point,hopefully.

As for Beleddie its contribution to the forum this week has been to make racist offensive comments which the Mods had to promptly remove.

Furthermore,if you start a new thread casting an opinion and inviting comment then at least you could post your own reasons why you think Pat Browns contribution has been 'Negative' !

We already have a Pat Brown thread prior to this,so this one is unnecessary and spam in my view as there is no point to it.

We already have plenty of spam without generating more.

**AnnaEsse** Sat 16 Aug - 11:22

Lioned wrote:'Beleddie' has been a member of this forum for 6 years and has made 139 posts in that time.Accepting that many people will have reasons for not being able to post regularly that is not much of a contribution to the 'cause'.
Pat Brown will undoubtedly have her reasons for withdrawing from commenting for the moment.I expect her to be back at some point,hopefully.

As for Beleddie its contribution to the forum this week has been to make racist offensive comments which the Mods had to promptly remove.

Furthermore,if you start a new thread casting an opinion and inviting comment then at least you could post your own reasons why you think Pat Browns contribution has been 'Negative' !

We already have a Pat Brown thread prior to this,so this one is unnecessary and spam in my view as there is no point to it.

We already have plenty of spam without generating more.

Topics merged.

**Lioned** Sat 16 Aug - 11:25

Thanks Anna.

**AnnaEsse** Sat 16 Aug - 11:48

Lioned wrote:Thanks Anna.

That second thread, set up simply to elicit criticism of Pat Brown was pointless!

**Lioned** Sat 16 Aug - 11:50

AnnaEsse wrote:
Lioned wrote:Thanks Anna.

That second thread, set up simply to elicit criticism of Pat Brown was pointless!

Yes it was.

**AnnaEsse** Sat 16 Aug - 11:51

Lioned wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Lioned wrote:Thanks Anna.

That second thread, set up simply to elicit criticism of Pat Brown was pointless!

Yes it was.

I still don't understand the title! Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014 - Page 2 294124

**Lioned** Sat 16 Aug - 11:54

Maybe Beleddie will explain later and let us know why Pat Brown has had a negative influence on this case.

**AnnaEsse** Sat 16 Aug - 11:56

Lioned wrote:Maybe Beleddie will explain later and let us know why Pat Brown has had a negative influence on this case.

Perhaps, but I don't think I'll delay what I was planning to do to find out! Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014 - Page 2 847843

**Lioned** Sat 16 Aug - 11:59

AnnaEsse wrote:
Lioned wrote:Maybe Beleddie will explain later and let us know why Pat Brown has had a negative influence on this case.

Perhaps, but I don't think I'll delay what I was planning to do to find out!

Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014 - Page 2 48510

BelEddie Sat 16 Aug - 12:16

frencheuropean wrote:
BelEddie wrote:Hi, After reading that PB had dropped out of the MM case I wondered whether she had actually done anything positive for the cause?
NB. There is no sarcasm or cynicism intended in my question. I personally didn't take much notice of anything she wrote.

So why do you bother? To please the Pros who hate her for "good" reasons?. Out of boredom because there is nothing new and Pat bashing is entertaining? Out of frustration because the McCanns are out of reach and you need a scapegoat?
Pat Brown did a lot for "the cause" by opening a lot of eyes, especially in America.
Not surprising that many, especially pro Mccann, try to shut her down.

I visit this site every day, sometimes twice a day. I don't log in, is that Ok? or does that offend the little minded few on here?
I asked a straight question because I didn't know what this person had contributed. I stated quite clearly that there was no sarcasm or cynicism intended or offered.
As for the racism, Islam is not a race it is a belief. Much like the jews. And what was written was the truth!

**Lioned** Sat 16 Aug - 12:26

BelEddie wrote:
frencheuropean wrote:
BelEddie wrote:Hi, After reading that PB had dropped out of the MM case I wondered whether she had actually done anything positive for the cause?
NB. There is no sarcasm or cynicism intended in my question. I personally didn't take much notice of anything she wrote.

So why do you bother? To please the Pros who hate her for "good" reasons?. Out of boredom because there is nothing new and Pat bashing is entertaining? Out of frustration because the McCanns are out of reach and you need a scapegoat?
Pat Brown did a lot for "the cause" by opening a lot of eyes, especially in America.
Not surprising that many, especially pro Mccann, try to shut her down.

I visit this site every day, sometimes twice a day. I don't log in, is that Ok? or does that offend the little minded few on here?
I asked a straight question because I didn't know what this person had contributed. I stated quite clearly that there was no sarcasm or cynicism intended or offered.
As for the racism, Islam is not a race it is a belief. Much like the jews. And what was written was the truth!

We didnt ask for your personal insults,just your opinions would do.

**AnnaEsse** Sat 16 Aug - 12:47

BelEddie wrote:
frencheuropean wrote:
BelEddie wrote:Hi, After reading that PB had dropped out of the MM case I wondered whether she had actually done anything positive for the cause?
NB. There is no sarcasm or cynicism intended in my question. I personally didn't take much notice of anything she wrote.

So why do you bother? To please the Pros who hate her for "good" reasons?. Out of boredom because there is nothing new and Pat bashing is entertaining? Out of frustration because the McCanns are out of reach and you need a scapegoat?
Pat Brown did a lot for "the cause" by opening a lot of eyes, especially in America.
Not surprising that many, especially pro Mccann, try to shut her down.

I visit this site every day, sometimes twice a day. I don't log in, is that Ok? or does that offend the little minded few on here?
I asked a straight question because I didn't know what this person had contributed. I stated quite clearly that there was no sarcasm or cynicism intended or offered.
As for the racism, Islam is not a race it is a belief. Much like the jews. And what was written was the truth!

I personally didn't take much notice of anything she wrote

I therefore consider that your comment was pointless. If you wish to know what Pat Brown contributed to "the cause," try reading what she has written. Personal insults will be removed from now on.

**Claudia79** Sat 16 Aug - 14:59

I've never seen any racist, homophobe, misogynist, xenophobe, anti-semite and other bigots in general admit their opinions weren't the truth. That's why they are dangerous. They really believe the crap they spew. They are, of course, free to express their opinions in their own personal pages. But certainly not here and that has been made clear many times before.

frencheuropean Wed 20 Aug - 8:10

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.fr/

In this last entry,Pat explains why she will dedicate herself to other matters.

**LJC** Wed 20 Aug - 11:08

Pat Brown wrote:TUESDAY, AUGUST 19, 2014
When a Crooked Case Goes Down a Crooked Path....It's Pretty Much Over

I just wrote my last post on the Madeleine McCann case and I have received a barrage of emails and comments pleading with me to keep up my commentary after seven years of the case going south (and with Scotland Yard's intervention, can I say going south with a vengeance?) and some folks are angry with me, calling me a quitter, that I am silencing my voice on the matter instead of fighting on and on and on and on...

I ask you all.....where are your voices on all the other cases of missing and murdered children and adults...all the other cases that have been abandoned by the justice system (Baby Lisa, JonBenet Ramsey, Haleigh Cummings, etc.) or closed by railroading someone that no one cares about, leaving the real killer on the street? I will tell you.....some of the time you finally realized that you have to know when to fold 'em, when like so many other cases, the case you are following is never going to come to a proper conclusion; justice will never be served. And, the rest of the time, you simply are ignorant of the crooked means used to close a case...you believe, if you actually read the one paragraph in the paper written about a particular case, that the conviction of some easy patsy is justified or that the administrative closing of a case with a dead or unprosecutable suspect is proper...that evidence supports the police case. While the population ignores the travesty, I stand by, painfully watching the smoke and mirrors, knowing damned well the real culprit is walking free.

So what is to be done? What am I doing about these outrageous injustices? At a certain point, raising one's voice does little to change the situation. I know, I have been speaking out for two decades against this kind of thing...but mainstream media does not support such talk....and so it is pretty easy to get away with closing a case wrongly without worrying about any backlash. I have fought this and failed...badly.

When a crooked case goes down a crooked path, there is little that can be done to set that particular case straight again. There is only one way to make a real difference in a world where politics, media, and egos can flush a case straight down the toilet....only one really good way to prevent it from turning to shit; making sure it never goes down the crooked path.

Preventing a case from going down a crooked path requires putting all one's efforts into the First 48. A cold case is usually cold for a reason; someone blew it from the beginning and unless there is an easy DNA match lying about, no cold case team or criminal profiler is going to come in and turn the case around. I have long stopped doing cold case work because it is a massive waste of time. My focus now is training detectives to profile and analyze their cases properly right from the start...on their own or with the help of profilers. If the case is handled correctly right at the beginning of the investigation, politics won't end up being such a factor in closing the case as it can be closed in a reasonable time period with the right suspect and enough evidence to get a conviction. Not every case - because sometimes the evidence just isn't there - but certainly more cases could have a better trajectory if these cases were handled a bit better

I am now fully focusing on profiling training for detectives. This year, a well-seasoned police chief and I will be putting together the training program we feel will make the biggest difference in solving homicide cases. This blog will be dedicated toward the education of detectives, profilers, and future detectives and profilers. The content will be about solving cases, the tools needed for analysis, the specific methods that make or break a case.

We each must choose the path we feel to be the one which will allow us to have the most impact. As of now, I choose to focus on police training....to keep the path from becoming crooked.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

August 19, 2014

"A cold case is usually cold for a reason; someone blew it from the beginning and unless there is an easy DNA match lying about, no cold case team or criminal profiler is going to come in and turn the case around."

Rubbish, just utter rubbish to generalise in this way. Many cold cases are historical and the technology used to solve crimes today just wasn't around back in the day.

But if she is talking about one particular case - Madeleine: To say someone blew it from the beginning - sounds like she is putting blame on the Portuguese to me.

She also talks about other cases that have been 'abandoned'. But the Madeleine case is far from abandoned, so again I don't know what she is talking about really. She talks about blame put on an unprosecutable suspect - but she does not say who she is talking about because such a person does not exist, does not exist at all because this has not happened. She has come to her own conclusion that suits her own agenda, that's all. She is another one who has tried to keep a soap opera running and running but has been rumbled and she doesn't like it. (Read Blacksmith)

So now she is training detectives - not in Britain I hope.

almostgothic Wed 20 Aug - 12:40

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run ...

Well shucks, this is where I've been going wrong all this time.
I never did know when to fold 'em. Or walk away. Or run.
Better get me another beer, Mr Bartender ...

Seriously though, it's not right to say cold cases are cold because somebody blew it.
The McCann case was cold for a while because of the deliberate, devious machinations of the very people who should have been cooperating. No-one on the original cop side of things 'blew it' - that's a huge slur in my book. In any case, with two police forces investigating this story is far from over.

Sometimes you want a short story and you get a novel. If you're really unlucky you get War And Peace.But that's us pesky Europeans for ya!

Oh looky here, I gotta royal flush ......

mossman Wed 20 Aug - 13:32

The way this case goes, at times there is a lot to write about and discuss, at other times there is little new to say. Sometimes when i hit reply to a post i wonder if i should because i know i am saying something i have said before. Then I think well it keeps the discussion going, new people might read it and learn something, so it's worth it (even if I am boring all the other members Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014 - Page 2 25346

Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014 - Page 2 25346

I think that's why I'm disappointed with PB. She did not need to "announce" she was not going to write anymore. If there is nothing new to say, say nothing. If, in the future something warrants a comment, then go for it. No need for a dramatic announcement.

Good luck to PB in her new venture, I mean it in a nice way when I say I hope she regrets her decision some day soon - hopefully there will be lots to write about from inside a court room and the defendants need profiling.

Onwards and upwards as they say, Internet nutters will never be an extinct species so there is hope yet for Madeleine.

**LJC** Wed 20 Aug - 14:53

almost gothic wrote:In any case, with two police forces investigating this story is far from over.

Absolutely right. Most people forget this fact. It will be interesting indeed to see which way the separate Portuguese investigation is heading.

**LJC** Wed 20 Aug - 15:01

mossman wrote:If there is nothing new to say, say nothing. If, in the future something warrants a comment, then go for it. No need for a dramatic announcement.

I agree mossman. Problem with Pat Brown imo, there was nothing new to say so she rambled on and on instead to present a different angle in order to keep the story running; but instead blew it herself. Yes indeed, she is the one who blew it by trying to be too cleaver and trying to make more out of this case than there actually is. But the reality is that Pat Brown seemed to stop doing reality and started to fantasise. All in my opinion.

chrissie Wed 20 Aug - 15:06

I don't agree with everything Pat Brown says but she has a right to her opinion. I'm not sure that she needed to do a 'last post' but that is up to her.

**LJC** Wed 20 Aug - 16:18

She did a last post and then another last post to explain her last post! Pat Brown: "My Final Post on the Madeleine McCann Case " -14/08/2014 - Page 2 294124

jinvta Wed 20 Aug - 16:50

"A cold case is usually cold for a reason; someone blew it from the beginning and unless there is an easy DNA match lying about, no cold case team or criminal profiler is going to come in and turn the case around."

Isn't this statement generally true? She does use the qualifier "usually," so not necessarily in all cases. Someone blowing it from the beginning was the political interventtion that prevented the PJ from going about their investigative procedures in their normal manner. Had the PJ not caved into political pressure, they probably would have jailed the McCann's for neglect, and been able to exert alot more pressure on them to cooperate with the investigation.

So, yes, the British government did blow it by getting involved, and the PJ blew it by caving in and bowing down to political pressure. There is no way to go back to step one. Cold cases do get solved, but not very often, and usually by some stroke of luck rather than a 30 person investigative team working full time on the process (e.g. the 3 women found in Ohio after been missing for 10 years).

**Claudia79** Wed 20 Aug - 16:58

chrissie wrote:I don't agree with everything Pat Brown says but she has a right to her opinion. I'm not sure that she needed to do a 'last post' but that is up to her.

Couldn't agree more. Since there are no real news in this case it seems sometimes everything is a good reason to criticise. Pat has every right to write or stop writing about whatever she wants as do each of us and justify herself or not. If people like her and agree with her, people read her. If people don't like her and don't agree with her, then they can choose not to read her. Problem solved.

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