Tea is served

LJC wrote:

Luz wrote:A 3 year old drinks TEA?!!!

I'll be damned, but that is a very nasty habit to subject a little toddler to.

Well, if I'm honest, I hadn't really thought about whether its right or wrong for children that age to drink tea, I was merely pointing out the strangeness of taking the trouble to actually stand at the sink and wash the pyjama top just because there was a dried tea stain on it. Therefore, I just wondered the reason Kate did this and why even bother to mention it.

She did seem to have a thing about washing - I mean they go away for just one little week's holiday and they have to have the washing machine checked out by the maintenance people because it wasn't working properly, and Kate stands handwashing. Even cuddle cat was washed!

And, David Payne had to make the point of saying in his statement, when he called at their apartment on the night of the 3rd, how clean the children looked. I can't remember his exact words now, but he emphasised the cleaness of them for some strange reason.

I just don't know, its like they are all trying to say you'll find no stains here, not on the floor, not on the clothes, nowhere.

I don't think I ever did laundry on a week's holiday with my two when they were little. And if something like that had happened, i.e., a tea or other stain, the item would just have been thrown into the bag for laundry when we got home.

AnnaEsse wrote:

MissBlonde wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

MissBlonde wrote:

Luz wrote:A 3 year old drinks TEA?!!!

I'll be damned, but that is a very nasty habit to subject a little toddler to.

Agreed. As I said previously on the old 3a's when this was discussed, what's next, chuck her a mars bar and a can of red bull?! I don't think so, as has been already stated, Kate seemed more like the organic milk and wholegrain bread mum (or so she'd maybe like us to believe).

Actually, when my son was three, he liked to drink tea! He was also a very fussy eater. He would not eat cooked vegetables: they had to be raw and he ate a lot of them. He was the first vegetarian in the family as he spat out meat or fish when I was introducing solid food. He was so fussy that when he had to spend a few days in hospital, and the only food on offer was burgers and fish finger type food, I had to take all his food in, which was salads, cheese, sunflower seeds, fresh fruit and the only bread he would eat, my home-made wholemeal with pumpkin seeds. One of the nurses said she couldn't understand a child who wouldn't eat chips and who didn't like chocolate spread! But he did like his cup of tea!

Sorry, didn't mean to offend, we all do things differently - just wouldn't give my kids caffeine as they would be climbing the walls (they're hyper enough without it).

No offence taken! I used to give my son decaff tea if he wanted some in the evening! My daughter and I were talking about his Easter eggs yesterday. He used to come back from his dad's with a carrier bag full of them, but he actually didn't like chocolate very much. So, my daughter and I used to wait a few weeks for the sake of decency to see if he would suddenly want to eat the eggs, then we polished them off!

Lol, I used to love it when my two weren't that bothered with chocolate (although I was two stone heavier). Now unfortunately I need to seriously hide them and only hand them out a little at a time (saying that, when my youngest was really little, he got hold of one, ate it in one go when I was in the loo and looked like a chocolate coated child when I came back three minutes later).

amethyst wrote:

The Famous Grouse wrote:Don't tea and blood stains have a similar chemistry? You use the same Stain Devils to get rid of both!

This reminds me of Mr Gerry telling us all about the Sea Bass, which can contain the same chemicals as cadaverine. They have a bloomin' answer for everything (or they think that they do).

Gerry made that blog comment back in the beginning of June, a whole 2 months nearly before the dogs arrived, just checked on pamalam's blog - I don't think they were aware of cadaver dogs at the time,jmo

eta as for the tea stain story - i have no idea if it means anything or not - i think kate mccann was relaying what she did that day - it does seem unimportant detail though in light of the abduction

*dont know*

I think the story of the tea stain is again the McCanns using lots of details to confuse and hide their real motive for telling the tail. By mentioning the stain she has us all speculating what the stain could be etc when the real reason for giving us the information is to fix in our minds that Madeleine was wearing, when she disapeared, her own 'cleaned' ( the superfulous information) pj top and not, as is more likely, the red t-shirt alerted to by the dogs. That way the investigations attention is focused on the pjs and by association Madeleine being in bed at the time of the 'happening' and not the t-shirt which may have provided forensic evidence and would have pointed to an earlier time frame for whatever happened.

I believe the pjs may also have been put back on the child after death to aid the confusion as to time of death. It would be interesting to know what Madeleine really wore on that last day in the creche ( perhaps the last photo with her in her sundress was released to further confuse the issue ). I think all that faff in Payne's rogatory about the children all in their pjs, looking like angels was also claimed to confuse the time of 'happening' issue.

LJC wrote : I think what Kate McCann meant by saying the stain did not appear during breakfast, was she spotted it at breakfast but that was not when it occurred, because she says the stain was dry. This is why I query why she decided to wash the top, because Madeleine must have been to bed in a stained top and what harm did it do - unless the stain was something other than tea! Anyway, as soon as Kate spotted it, the top had to be washed! As if she was afraid of the stain!.

my bold. 'out damned spot! will these hands ne'er be clean'? said Lady Macbeth. Two showers, or was it one bath and a shower,..... anyone?...... gently removed hair bead? washing , showering, wine drinking, rituals.

ann_chovey wrote:LJC wrote : I think what Kate McCann meant by saying the stain did not appear during breakfast, was she spotted it at breakfast but that was not when it occurred, because she says the stain was dry. This is why I query why she decided to wash the top, because Madeleine must have been to bed in a stained top and what harm did it do - unless the stain was something other than tea! Anyway, as soon as Kate spotted it, the top had to be washed! As if she was afraid of the stain!.

my bold. 'out damned spot! will these hands ne'er be clean'? said Lady Macbeth. Two showers, or was it one bath and a shower,..... anyone?...... gently removed hair bead? washing , showering, wine drinking, rituals.

Eew, what a horrible thought, a bath and a shower to try to get clean and then a bucketful of wine to numb it. yuk yuk yuk.

MissBlonde wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

MissBlonde wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

MissBlonde wrote:

Agreed. As I said previously on the old 3a's when this was discussed, what's next, chuck her a mars bar and a can of red bull?! I don't think so, as has been already stated, Kate seemed more like the organic milk and wholegrain bread mum (or so she'd maybe like us to believe).

Actually, when my son was three, he liked to drink tea! He was also a very fussy eater. He would not eat cooked vegetables: they had to be raw and he ate a lot of them. He was the first vegetarian in the family as he spat out meat or fish when I was introducing solid food. He was so fussy that when he had to spend a few days in hospital, and the only food on offer was burgers and fish finger type food, I had to take all his food in, which was salads, cheese, sunflower seeds, fresh fruit and the only bread he would eat, my home-made wholemeal with pumpkin seeds. One of the nurses said she couldn't understand a child who wouldn't eat chips and who didn't like chocolate spread! But he did like his cup of tea!

Sorry, didn't mean to offend, we all do things differently - just wouldn't give my kids caffeine as they would be climbing the walls (they're hyper enough without it).

No offence taken! I used to give my son decaff tea if he wanted some in the evening! My daughter and I were talking about his Easter eggs yesterday. He used to come back from his dad's with a carrier bag full of them, but he actually didn't like chocolate very much. So, my daughter and I used to wait a few weeks for the sake of decency to see if he would suddenly want to eat the eggs, then we polished them off!

Lol, I used to love it when my two weren't that bothered with chocolate (although I was two stone heavier). Now unfortunately I need to seriously hide them and only hand them out a little at a time (saying that, when my youngest was really little, he got hold of one, ate it in one go when I was in the loo and looked like a chocolate coated child when I came back three minutes later).

I remember taking my son to the doctor for an injection when he was two. The doctor gave him a wrapped sweet for being a good boy. When we got outside, my son said, "It was kind of the doctor to give me this." Yes," I said, "Very kind." "What did he want me to do with it?" my son asked, holding this sweet out like it was something alien. "Eat it," I said. "Eat this?" was the reply, in a shocked voice!

MissBlonde wrote: Eew, what a horrible thought, a bath and a shower to try to get clean and then a bucketful of wine to numb it. yuk yuk yuk.

I wonder if it were a million miles from the truth though. Too much unecessary detail of the last few hours.

@AnnaEsse - lol!! That's hilarious.

MissBlonde wrote:@AnnaEsse - lol!! That's hilarious.

I know! It was some years ago, but one of those things that sticks in the mind as being very funny!

ann_chovey wrote:MissBlonde wrote: Eew, what a horrible thought, a bath and a shower to try to get clean and then a bucketful of wine to numb it. yuk yuk yuk.

I wonder if it were a million miles from the truth though. Too much unecessary detail of the last few hours.

Sadly you could be right, it's just a horrible horrible thought. Although would that not mean they would then have to go and sit with their friends, laughing, eating and drinking all the while knowing their eldest baby was dead in tragic circumstances? I find this just too difficult to comprehend, although I'm not naive enough to believe it impossible, far from it (I know I'm contradicting myself here, but it's all just too much to take in sometimes).

MissBlonde wrote:

ann_chovey wrote:MissBlonde wrote: Eew, what a horrible thought, a bath and a shower to try to get clean and then a bucketful of wine to numb it. yuk yuk yuk.

I wonder if it were a million miles from the truth though. Too much unecessary detail of the last few hours.

Sadly you could be right, it's just a horrible horrible thought. Although would that not mean they would then have to go and sit with their friends, laughing, eating and drinking all the while knowing their eldest baby was dead in tragic circumstances? I find this just too difficult to comprehend, although I'm not naive enough to believe it impossible, far from it (I know I'm contradicting myself here, but it's all just too much to take in sometimes).

MissBlonde remember the photographs, taken outside the church on Madeleine's birthday, with the McCanns grinning from ear to ear. Now tell me you don't believe they could act normally on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

Faithlilly wrote:

MissBlonde wrote:

ann_chovey wrote:MissBlonde wrote: Eew, what a horrible thought, a bath and a shower to try to get clean and then a bucketful of wine to numb it. yuk yuk yuk.

I wonder if it were a million miles from the truth though. Too much unecessary detail of the last few hours.

Sadly you could be right, it's just a horrible horrible thought. Although would that not mean they would then have to go and sit with their friends, laughing, eating and drinking all the while knowing their eldest baby was dead in tragic circumstances? I find this just too difficult to comprehend, although I'm not naive enough to believe it impossible, far from it (I know I'm contradicting myself here, but it's all just too much to take in sometimes).

MissBlonde remember the photographs, taken outside the church on Madeleine's birthday, with the McCanns grinning from ear to ear. Now tell me you don't believe they could act normally on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

I know, and these photographs are what I show to disbelieving friends/family, and tbh, every one except for one has been shocked and had their opinion turned by them (the one is my bloody stubborn sister, who once she has made up her mind on something, which she did before she knew anything about the case, resolutely refuses to change her way of thinking). But although this was only 12 days after Madeleine's disappearance, and her birthday - to act how they did on the actual night she disappeared (or died, as is my opinion) would just be a whole other ball game, iykwim.

If Madeleine died prior to Thursday night then we don't know how they were acting that night...in fact we don't even know for sure that they were at the tapas on Monday or Wednesday night.

The quiz mistress said that Gerry was there for the time she was there (1hr approx) without leaving and that she doesn't remember seeing Kate but she does remember an empty seat where someone had left (prior to 9.00?)

Was Kate at the tapas Tuesday?

Were they there Monday and Wednesday? I can find nothing to suggest they were there...yet. (apart from their statements which I don't believe)

hideho i'm sure there's a waiter statement somewhere about having late liquers on the wednesday - and also bridgit odonnell writes in her article that they dined in the tapas on wednesday evening and they were there

eta
Generally, during dinner, he would serve four bottles of wine (two white and two red), which the group completely consumed. On that day, he did not serve any more wine. It was also normal for certain members of the group to order dessert. After this, they would normally stay at the table until after 23H00 but would always leave before 00H00, the time when the bar closed. One or more of them, on another night, asked for an after-dinner drink. He remembers this clearly because they asked for Amareto and the bar did not stock it.

The witness served almond bitters to all. He remembers that this happened on Wednesday. He does not remember if they had more after-dinner drinks. He does remember that on Wednesday, certain elements of the group got up, with their after-dinner drinks, and headed to the bar and stayed there until about 00H00/00H10. This was the only night where the group elements were in the bar after closing. He also remembers that they would normally be the last clients to leave. Wednesday was the last night they were at the bar after dinner.

Oh Anna, that's funny!

We fostered a wee girl of about 3 at very short notice one night. She came to us filthy and starving, so after she had a bath, I made her some food, but the only thing I had to hand were some Quorn sausages. So I grilled the sausages and put them in a sandwich.

She looked at it extremely suspiciously, and asked, "what are these?" and so I said, "they are sausages!"

She replied, "no they're not, sausages are black!"

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh, or cry.

The Famous Grouse wrote:Oh Anna, that's funny!

We fostered a wee girl of about 3 at very short notice one night. She came to us filthy and starving, so after she had a bath, I made her some food, but the only thing I had to hand were some Quorn sausages. So I grilled the sausages and put them in a sandwich.

She looked at it extremely suspiciously, and asked, "what are these?" and so I said, "they are sausages!"

She replied, "no they're not, sausages are black!"

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh, or cry.

That is so sad. I can imagine sausages incinerated in a manky frying pan. I thought you were going to say that, like my grandson, the little girl thought that Quorn sausages were not "real," sausages. That poor wee wean! You are so good to do this emergency fostering and I imagine you see a lot of distress in those little ones who are brought to you and it can't be easy for you or for them. You have my admiration.

amethyst wrote:hideho i'm sure there's a waiter statement somewhere about having late liquers on the wednesday - and also bridgit odonnell writes in her article that they dined in the tapas on wednesday evening and they were there

eta
Generally, during dinner, he would serve four bottles of wine (two white and two red), which the group completely consumed. On that day, he did not serve any more wine. It was also normal for certain members of the group to order dessert. After this, they would normally stay at the table until after 23H00 but would always leave before 00H00, the time when the bar closed. One or more of them, on another night, asked for an after-dinner drink. He remembers this clearly because they asked for Amareto and the bar did not stock it.

The witness served almond bitters to all. He remembers that this happened on Wednesday. He does not remember if they had more after-dinner drinks. He does remember that on Wednesday, certain elements of the group got up, with their after-dinner drinks, and headed to the bar and stayed there until about 00H00/00H10. This was the only night where the group elements were in the bar after closing. He also remembers that they would normally be the last clients to leave. Wednesday was the last night they were at the bar after dinner.

Amethyst, thanks for posting those statements.

Bridget O'Donnell alluded to Madeleine at tennis 'all pink and pretty' on Thursday when Madeleine was not there at all. There is nothing I can find that says the McCanns specifically were at the tapas on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.

I'm not saying they weren't there, but if they were so shockingly upset, as I am sure they must have been, and regardless of anything else, it is probable that Madeleine died, then there may very well have been a night they didn't attend.

Gerry was placed there by the quiz mistress on Tuesday, but Kate may not have been there (keeping in mind this was the night Mrs Fenn heard the crying) but I'm heading a little off topic.

They were so vague regarding so many important statements and so 'over the top' with others.

There was a reason she mentioned the tea stain and there was a reason she mentioned the bead.

Some other thoughts I have on it, is, that I have recognised many comments may be true but attributed to different days.

The bead, the tea stain may have been some of the last 'memories' Kate has of Madeleine and although they may have happened earlier in the week, (if Madeleine died earlier) they are important to her and she 'uses' them to place Madeleine alive on Thursday.

The more I think about my last comment, the more I think that may be the reason for those 'trivial' (in a missing child case) statements.

I think they were important to Kate..the last memories.

HiDeHo wrote:The more I think about my last comment, the more I think that may be the reason for those 'trivial' (in a missing child case) statements.

I think they were important to Kate..the last memories.

Yeah, good thinking there !

Laffin Assasin wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:The more I think about my last comment, the more I think that may be the reason for those 'trivial' (in a missing child case) statements.

I think they were important to Kate..the last memories.

Yeah, good thinking there !

it was important to KM that it was Madeleine's best day ever, she had lots and lots of fun.
Her Mother gently removed her trendy hair bead at bathtime, and then they had a story.

ann_chovey wrote:

Laffin Assasin wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:The more I think about my last comment, the more I think that may be the reason for those 'trivial' (in a missing child case) statements.

I think they were important to Kate..the last memories.

Yeah, good thinking there !

it was important to KM that it was Madeleine's best day ever, she had lots and lots of fun.
Her Mother gently removed her trendy hair bead at bathtime, and then they had a story.

For months I have been searching for an early pic of Kate, looking to see if she had the 'hair bead' (which was elastic) on her wrist.

I have always felt that she may have put it there if/when she removed it.

Sometimes its easy to forget that there would have been grief, without question, if Madeleine died, but hidden beneath the contrived lies needed to hide the truth.

(Hi LA wb!)

HiDeHo wrote:

ann_chovey wrote:

Laffin Assasin wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:The more I think about my last comment, the more I think that may be the reason for those 'trivial' (in a missing child case) statements.

I think they were important to Kate..the last memories.

Yeah, good thinking there !

it was important to KM that it was Madeleine's best day ever, she had lots and lots of fun.
Her Mother gently removed her trendy hair bead at bathtime, and then they had a story.

For months I have been searching for an early pic of Kate, looking to see if she had the 'hair bead' (which was elastic) on her wrist.

I have always felt that she may have put it there if/when she removed it.

Sometimes its easy to forget that there would have been grief, without question, if Madeleine died, but hidden beneath the contrived lies needed to hide the truth. (Hi LA wb!)

good thinking.
the problem is they had so many wristbands etc. (also watches) it's hard to tell. e.g. this one with bracelet, and they got added to as time went on.

http://helenafrithpowell.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/7-9-7.jpg

AnnaEsse wrote:

The Famous Grouse wrote:Oh Anna, that's funny!

We fostered a wee girl of about 3 at very short notice one night. She came to us filthy and starving, so after she had a bath, I made her some food, but the only thing I had to hand were some Quorn sausages. So I grilled the sausages and put them in a sandwich.

She looked at it extremely suspiciously, and asked, "what are these?" and so I said, "they are sausages!"

She replied, "no they're not, sausages are black!"

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh, or cry.

That is so sad. I can imagine sausages incinerated in a manky frying pan. I thought you were going to say that, like my grandson, the little girl thought that Quorn sausages were not "real," sausages. That poor wee wean! You are so good to do this emergency fostering and I imagine you see a lot of distress in those little ones who are brought to you and it can't be easy for you or for them. You have my admiration.

We did it for years, Anna, and I eventually gave up because it was just too distressing. I got burned out and it was affecting my own children. When my own ones leave home I may well do it again, though.

The Famous Grouse wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

The Famous Grouse wrote:Oh Anna, that's funny!

We fostered a wee girl of about 3 at very short notice one night. She came to us filthy and starving, so after she had a bath, I made her some food, but the only thing I had to hand were some Quorn sausages. So I grilled the sausages and put them in a sandwich.

She looked at it extremely suspiciously, and asked, "what are these?" and so I said, "they are sausages!"

She replied, "no they're not, sausages are black!"

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh, or cry.

That is so sad. I can imagine sausages incinerated in a manky frying pan. I thought you were going to say that, like my grandson, the little girl thought that Quorn sausages were not "real," sausages. That poor wee wean! You are so good to do this emergency fostering and I imagine you see a lot of distress in those little ones who are brought to you and it can't be easy for you or for them. You have my admiration.

We did it for years, Anna, and I eventually gave up because it was just too distressing. I got burned out and it was affecting my own children. When my own ones leave home I may well do it again, though.

I've worked in children's homes, TFG, and know how deeply distressed some, if not most, children in care can be. I recall sitting in the dining room of a home one day when the manager looked up at the ceiling and said "What's that," to which I replied, "Compost." We had a little laddie who would suddenly freak out and throw whatever came to hand. We had kids who screamed at the suggestion of a bath or shower and self-harming was common, even with very young children. I can fully appreciate your getting burned out. Staff in children's homes get burned out and they're never on their own with children and they go home at the end of a shift. They don't have it 24 hours a day as foster-carers do. So, well done for all the children you took into your own home and did your best to care for.

Jean-Luc wrote:Thank you Hideho. So this t-shirt is the one alerted to by the dogs. Sean was seen wearing it after Madeleine's disappearance. Why was the t-shirt not confiscated and kept by the police? Sometimes I feel so confused.

At the time when Sean was photographed wearing that Tee shirt, the cadaver Dog had not marked the tee shirt as this was before the arrival of the dog's.

No matter what this garment must have come into contact or cross contamination took place on to the Tee shirt with a deceased Madeleine, because why this garment as all the other clothing that the children had worn and clothes in the packed suit case would have had the cadaver odour on, the reason I say that is Kate and her ash for cash certifying death's prior to their Holiday, the reason given for the cadaver odour on Kate's garment's.

Its strange how they make excuses for the cadaver odour and what the dogs marked, two dogs that are at the top of the tree at what they are highly trained for, the meat leaking in the boot of the car the smelly nappies Eddie was not marking nappies or meat as below, and Keela only marks HUMAN blood.
Cadaver dogs specialises in crime scenes,old cases small scent sources and residual scent,cadaver dog's trained to the following to exclude fresh human scent,faeces,urine,semen and all animal scents.


From Mr Grimes Report below.

“Taking into account the signals of CSI, could the dog alert to other biological fluids?”
The dog that alerts to human blood is trained exclusively for this purpose, and includes its components, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. Given the nature of the training, the dog will not alert to urine, saliva, semen sweat, nasal secretion, vaginal secretion or human skin unless these are mixed with blood. The components of blood are approximately:
Red cells 40-50%
Plasma 55% (of which 95% is water)
White cells
Platelets
DNA can only be removed from white cells.
This would suggest that, of the samples signaled by the dog looking for human blood, approximately 5% are available for DNA tests.
“Is there any chance, however remote, of any confusion”
The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.

End part Report.

Innocent normal Parents would be beside themselves if a death had been marked in the Apartment where their Daughter disappeared from assuming the worst had happened, and by two dogs that were brought over from England ,that have helped put many Criminal's behind bar's and are in demand across the World, but not the McCann's they just make excuses for what was marked and found by the dogs, very strange.

As for the tea stain, why go into detail about it it really was irrelevant, I am sure all three Children spilt thing's down their tops and clothes during the Holiday, yet this was brought up for a reason, but that top has gone along with Madeleine.