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Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

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Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 15 Jun - 21:20

Killings on that day, 'unjustified and unjustifiable.'

It has taken 38 years for the families of those gunned down to get this acknowledgment. I was moved to tears by the family members of those killed as they spoke about the verdict. And just seeing all those people crowding the streets in support was very moving.

The video can be seen on this page:

BBC Northern Ireland

Those defenceless people who were killed have been exonerated after years of lying by British soldiers. May they now rest in peace.

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Tue 15 Jun - 21:25

AnnaEsse wrote:Killings on that day, 'unjustified and unjustifiable.'

It has taken 38 years for the families of those gunned down to get this acknowledgment. I was moved to tears by the family members of those killed as they spoke about the verdict. And just seeing all those people crowding the streets in support was very moving.

The video can be seen on this page:

BBC Northern Ireland

Those defenceless people who were killed have been exonerated after years of lying by British soldiers. May they now rest in peace.


Took them long enough to come to that conclusion. How many other innocent people were killed at the hands of british soldiers in Northern Ireland. May they all rest in peace.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Tue 15 Jun - 21:28

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Tue 15 Jun - 21:30

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 16 Jun - 6:36

Antoinette wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:Killings on that day, 'unjustified and unjustifiable.'

It has taken 38 years for the families of those gunned down to get this acknowledgment. I was moved to tears by the family members of those killed as they spoke about the verdict. And just seeing all those people crowding the streets in support was very moving.

The video can be seen on this page:

BBC Northern Ireland

Those defenceless people who were killed have been exonerated after years of lying by British soldiers. May they now rest in peace.


Took them long enough to come to that conclusion. How many other innocent people were killed at the hands of british soldiers in Northern Ireland. May they all rest in peace.

Thank you for those videos Antoinette. The truth is there to see in all its tragedy and sadness. I am sure there were many more innocent people killed by the British soldiers if the two men I know who served there are representative of what went on.

My brother had been in the army for a few years and had been stationed in various parts of the world when he was sent to Northern Ireland. He bought himself out because of what he saw British soldiers doing. Until then he had loved life in the army.

I worked with a man who had been in the paras. In Northern Ireland, he was at a guard point one night, armed and standing next to another armed man. Suddenly, a car screeched round a corner, with a lot of noise and arms waving from the windows. My friend realised immediately that it was a car full of young people, just out having fun. The other man had raised his gun and my friend knocked it down. Later, my friend was beaten up by that man and a few others because he hadn't opened fire on that car and those young people. That group of men went out most nights drinking and would come back, drag my friend out of his bed and beat him. For the time he had left in NI, he would hide in a cupboard every night until those men had come back from the pub and settled to sleep.

Then my friend was sent to the Falklands and he was very much ostracized. He told me that he was terrified as the fighting there escalated, not because of foreign soldiers, but because he had been told that a stray bullet might get him.

The general principle amongst the British soldiers in NI seemed to be, from what I was told, if it moves, shoot it. I am sure those in command must have been well aware of what was happening if not actually ordering it. I hope that now there will be some people with integrity who will feel safe to disclose what they know. The people of NI deserve it.

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  kitti on Wed 16 Jun - 7:53

I agree with the verdict...i hope they can look into the culprits who snatched two off duty soliders from their car and tortured them, beat them then murdered them.
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Cowen to meet Bloody Sunday relatives

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 9:26

Wednesday, 16 June 2010 07:32
Taoiseach Brian Cowen is to meet some of the relatives of the victims of Bloody Sunday in Government Buildings this afternoon.

Family members of the victims are also due to meet the leaders of the three Protestant churches in Derry this morning at Rossville Street in the city.

Church of Ireland Bishop Ken Good and the heads of the Presbyterian and Methodist churches will join relatives at a memorial to the dead.

The report of the Saville Inquiry, which was published yesterday, ruled that all those who were killed or wounded when British troops opened fire in Derry on 30 January 1972 were innocent.

The 5,000-page report said that British soldiers were solely to blame for the deaths of 14 people and injuries to 13 others.



PSNI Chief Constable Matt Baggott and director of Northern Ireland Public Prosecution Service Alasdair Fraser are expected to consider the implications of the report.

Some relatives are already on record as demanding that troops be charged for their actions.

But the British Prime Minister David Cameron, who issued an apology yesterday, insisted the issue of prosecutions was not for the political or judicial arena.

Mr Cameron said: 'These are shocking conclusions to read and shocking words to have to say. But you do not defend the British Army by defending the indefensible.

'There is no point trying to soften or equivocate what is in the report. It is clear from the tribunal's authoritative conclusions that the events of Bloody Sunday were in no way justified.

'What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong.'

President Mary McAleese welcomed the report and said that it was a momentous day for the families of the dead

She said: 'I fervently hope that, by its publication, the Saville Report will provide them, at long last, with the consolation that the world now knows the awful truth about Bloody Sunday.'
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Timeline of events on Bloody Sunday

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 9:28

Tuesday, 15 June 2010 07:41
At the beginning of 1972 the security situation in Northern Ireland was spiralling out of control.

The Troubles had broken out three years earlier when police in Derry clashed with civil rights protestors demanding an end to discriminatory housing and voting practices against Roman Catholics.

Within 12 months British soldiers were deployed on to the streets following a summer of violent sectarian clashes between Protestants and Catholics.

AdvertisementTwo years later, in an attempt to break the republican paramilitary movement, the Unionist-dominated Stormont government introduced internment.

The policy of detention without trial had the opposite effect: angering the nationalist community and increasing support for the IRA.

The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association called for an end to the powers and protests were organised across the country.

On introducing internment, Stormont also banned large public assemblies and processions for six months.

This rendered all the subsequent civil rights demonstrations illegal gatherings.

A week before Bloody Sunday, soldiers fired plastic bullets and CS gas at protestors at one of these events on Magilligan Strand near Derry city.

Four days later, two RUC officers were shot dead by republicans in the nationalist Creggan area of the city.

While tension in Derry was high on the morning of 30 January, few could have predicted the bloodshed that followed.

It was just after lunch time when demonstrators started assembling in the Creggan for the latest NICRA protest march - this time the destination was the city's Guildhall.

2.50pm:
Due to get under way at 2pm, the start is delayed by 50 minutes to accommodate the steady stream of late arrivals. Marchers leave Creggan Drive and set off for the city centre, with hundreds joining in at almost every turn.

3.25pm:
The march passes the Bogside Inn bar and continues on to William Street. Estimates at the size of demonstration at this point vary. Organisers claimed up to 20,000 people were involved, while the Widgery Inquiry into the killings put it at a more conservative 3,000 to 5,000.

3.45pm:
With the British Army having erected barricades blocking the way to the Guildhall, the main body of the march turns left on to Rossville Street toward the revised rallying point at the Free Derry corner at the entrance to the nationalist Bogside estate. A number break off and continue down William Street to confront soldiers at a barricade. Some rioting ensues. Minor clashes between stone throwers and security forces at this junction were commonplace, with locals dubbing the area 'aggro corner'.

3.55pm:
Before the main shooting incident and at a location away from both the riot and march, two soldiers in a derelict building on William Street fire a number of rounds after claiming they had come under attack. Two men were injured. One of them, 59-year-old John Johnston, died six months later and is acknowledged as the 14th victim of Bloody Sunday. An Official IRA member is believed to have fired at the building during this incident, but whether it was before or after the soldiers shot is a matter of contention.

3.56pm:
Rioters disperse from William Street after the British Army deploy water cannon. Paratroopers request permission to commence an arrest operation on those who had fled down Chamberlain Street and Rossville Street.

4.07pm:
A company of paratroopers, led by Major Ted Loden, is given an order to start arresting any remaining rioters in William Street. But they are told not to engage in a running battle down Rossville Street.

4.10pm:
The soldiers open fire on people in the area of Rossville flats.

Jackie Duddy was shot in the car park of Rossville flats: Pat Doherty, Barney McGuigan were shot at the forecourt on the other side of the flats: Hugh Gilmour, Kevin McElhinney, Michael Kelly, John Young, William Nash and Michael McDaid were shot at a rubble barricade on Rossville Street beside the flats: James Wray, Gerald Donaghey, Gerald McKinney and William McKinney (not related) were shot at Glenfada Park on other side of Rossville Street.

4.40pm:
The shooting ends. As well as the 13 fatalities, 14 others were wounded. 21 soldiers fired in the incident, expending 108 rounds in total. The British Army claims it came under fire in the Rossville flats area, allegedly by the Provisional IRA. Eyewitnesses insist none of the dead were armed. Rumours since circulated that others died on the day - namely PIRA gunmen - whose bodies were spirited away by fellow provisionals and secretly buried.


Key Facts about the Saville Inquiry

The team was chaired by Lord Mark Saville of Newdigate alongside judges William Hoyt, from Canada, and Australian John Toohey.

The inquiry cost £190.3m, as of February 2010, interviewed and received statements from around 2,500 people and 922 of these were called to give oral evidence.

They comprised: 505 civilians, nine experts and forensic scientists, 49 members of the media (including photographers), 245 military, 35 paramilitary or former paramilitaries, 39 politicians and civil servants (including intelligence officers), seven priests, 33 Royal Ulster Constabulary officers.

Oral hearings began on 27 March 2000. The first witness to give oral evidence was heard on 28 November 2000 and the final one in January 2005.

There is 160 volumes of data with an estimated 30m words, which included 13 volumes of photographs, 121 audiotapes, 10 videotapes.
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Publication of Saville Report welcomed

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 9:28

Tuesday, 15 June 2010 17:19
Memories of the Bloody Sunday dead boomed out across Derry's Guildhall Square as bereaved relatives read out the names of their loved ones to an audience of thousands who had packed into the space in front of the city's historic walls.

As each relative in turn came to the microphone on the steps of the venue, they read out a name of one of those killed by the Paras, before shouting the word: 'Innocent.'

John Kelly, whose 17-year-old brother Michael was found by the report to have been shot by soldiers without justification, made an emotional address to the crowd that recalled the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

'We have overcome,' he declared, prompting cheers from the throng.

He said the report had vindicated the families and it would now be the verdict of history for all time.

Mr Kelly produced a copy of the shamed Widgery report, which had largely exonerated the soldiers only months after the killings.

The Widergy report was then torn to shreds.

Criminal charges considered

The North's Chief Constable Matt Baggott and Sir Alasdair Fraser, head of the Public Prosecution Service, are to have talks to consider whether any of the Paratroopers who opened fire on Bloody Sunday will face criminal charges.

Any decision is solely a matter for the PPS, acting independently in accordance with the Test for Prosecution, according to a statement from Sir Alasdair's office in Belfast.

It added: 'The Director of Public Prosecutions, together with the Chief Constable, will consider the report to determine the nature and extent of any police inquiries and investigations which may be required to enable informed decisions as to prosecution to be taken.

'The undertaking given by the Attorney General in 1999 to witnesses who provided evidence to the inquiry will also require to be considered.

'It is not practical, at this stage, to say when such decisions will be taken other than to indicate that the matter will be considered as expeditiously as possible.'


Commenting from Derry Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams said;
'Today is a day for the families of those killed and those injured on Bloody Sunday.

'They have campaigned for 38 years for the truth and for justice. They have campaigned for the British government to end their policy of cover-up and concealment.

'The facts of what happened on Bloody Sunday are clear - the British Paras came to Derry and murdered 14 civil rights marchers and injured 13 others.

'They were unarmed, they posed no threat and they were completely innocent.

'Today Saville has put the lies of Widgery into the dustbin of history and with it the cover-up which was authorized of the highest levels within the British Establishment and lasted for almost four decades.

'Sinn Féin will continue to support the Bloody Sunday families in the time ahead.'


The Ulster Unionist leader Reg Empey said he hoped the report would give relief to the families who lost loved ones, and might help the families put the past behind them and move on.

'Clearly and rightly the onus will always be on Ministers of the Crown to account for the actions of the military, and today David Cameron shouldered that responsibility.

'However, while some families may have had a degree of closure today, very many others have not been so fortunate.

'In the days before Bloody Sunday, two RUC officers - Peter Gilgunn and David Montgomery - were shot dead in the Creggan area of the city.

'Their families have not received justice. Nobody has apologised to their families for their murders, despite the IRA having claimed responsibility for their killings.'

'This alone illustrates the divisiveness of the inquiry culture. With over 3,600 killed, some inquiries have been held or are underway, but most deaths appear to have been forgotten.

'This adds to the sense of grief felt by many victims' families. It unfortunately appears that some deaths are regarded as more significant than others. This is no way to build a shared future.

'Northern Ireland cannot endure an endless list of Saville-type inquiries. We cannot continually be dragged back to our darkest years.

'The question now facing Northern Ireland is whether we continue to pursue costly individual cases or are we, as a society, to concentrate on building a shared future, freed from the mistakes of the past?'
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  AnnaEsse on Wed 16 Jun - 10:49

Antoinette, I don't want to interrupt the flow of the report on the other thread, so just a quick comment about it here and that is that it is truly shocking reading the details.

If it is not up to politicians or the judiciary to investigate the people who killed the unarmed civilians, whose responsibility is it? The army's? Those responsible need to answer in a court of law and for the proceedings to be totally open.

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 11:28

AnnaEsse wrote:Antoinette, I don't want to interrupt the flow of the report on the other thread, so just a quick comment about it here and that is that it is truly shocking reading the details.

If it is not up to politicians or the judiciary to investigate the people who killed the unarmed civilians, whose responsibility is it? The army's? Those responsible need to answer in a court of law and for the proceedings to be totally open.

Personally i think it should be the responsibility of the Army. It was their men who started shooting first. I agree somone should be help responsible for this.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 20:29

shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 20:54

Marky wrote:shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.


It takes two sides to fight a war, and clearly protagonists on both sides where far from squeeky clean.

What strikes me was the complete lack of integrity and openness amongst senior army officials when dealing with these public enquiries. I can understand the average squaddie being economical with the truth, particularly in the light of pressue imposed by his peer group and the military police, but the behavior of senior officers is a different matter altogether.

There's no excuse for what happened, but I can imagine how a group of young men, armed to the teeth, trained to kill, subjected to verbal and physical abuse, being spat at, petrol bombed, stoned and shot at on a daily basis might want to retaliate. Its the same human nature that drove the a section of the Irish population to armed protest due to the armys presense. If a foreign army invaded my city I'd be a tad pissed off too.

What I cant imagine is how a senior officer can repeatedly lie to British newspapers, and at least two public enquiries simply to comply with a state sponsored whitewash of events. As I get older, I've noticed a tendancy to have more more respect for senior army personel, and a belief that they tend to operate in the interests of the common good rather than along political lines, but this sort of behaviour seriously shakes those beliefs.

What exactly was so hard about saying FFS, we where in a high presure situation, we lost the plot, mistakes where made, people where killed, we cant change the past, we are sorry, and lets try to learn some lessons. But no, the ****'s have to live in denial for almost 40 years. The Hare is not amused in the least.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 21:23

Marky wrote:shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.


Shall we talk about the fact that the British government took 6 of our counties from IRISH people who didnt want them up the north. This is what caused all of the troubles up there in the 1st place
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 21:42

Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.


Shall we talk about the fact that the British government took 6 of our counties from IRISH people who didnt want them up the north. This is what caused all of the troubles up there in the 1st place

well, while we is at it, lets talk about republican bombs in ireland and mainland uk that killed or maimed civilians, both irish and english, or are we in that little place where we say one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? what's your view on al qaeda? only asking.

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 21:59

Marky wrote:
Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.


Shall we talk about the fact that the British government took 6 of our counties from IRISH people who didnt want them up the north. This is what caused all of the troubles up there in the 1st place

well, while we is at it, lets talk about republican bombs in ireland and mainland uk that killed or maimed civilians, both irish and english, or are we in that little place where we say one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? what's your view on al qaeda? only asking.


OH another war that the British Government couldnt keep their noses out of do you mean. How many British soldiers were killed ????.
Dont tell me your comparing the IRA to Al Queda. I know only too well about the bombs in Ireland. My father was injured in one of the bombs that went off in Dublin. He had just parked his bus to go on his lunch break when the bomb went off in 1974. Im not saying the IRA were blameless but they were fighting for their country and the freedom of the Irish people.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 22:18

Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:
Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.


Shall we talk about the fact that the British government took 6 of our counties from IRISH people who didnt want them up the north. This is what caused all of the troubles up there in the 1st place

well, while we is at it, lets talk about republican bombs in ireland and mainland uk that killed or maimed civilians, both irish and english, or are we in that little place where we say one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? what's your view on al qaeda? only asking.


Dont tell me your comparing the IRA to Al Queda. I know only too well about the bombs in Ireland. My father was injured in one of the bombs that went off in Dublin. He had just parked his bus to go on his lunch break when the bomb went off in 1974. Im not saying the IRA were blameless but they were fighting for their country and the freedom of the Irish people.

i'm not drawing any comparison but some may say that al qaeda are fighting for the freedom of their people and as far as i'm aware the opposite of freedom is suppression and that was not the case where ireland was or is concerned. sorry to hear about your daddy. i hope he recovered fully from his injuries.

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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Wed 16 Jun - 22:37

Marky wrote:
Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:
Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:shall we talk about the bodies found that that had been dead for some time or the catholic priest; now dead; who was seen removing sidearms from other victims or this not the done thing? only asking.


Shall we talk about the fact that the British government took 6 of our counties from IRISH people who didnt want them up the north. This is what caused all of the troubles up there in the 1st place

well, while we is at it, lets talk about republican bombs in ireland and mainland uk that killed or maimed civilians, both irish and english, or are we in that little place where we say one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? what's your view on al qaeda? only asking.


Dont tell me your comparing the IRA to Al Queda. I know only too well about the bombs in Ireland. My father was injured in one of the bombs that went off in Dublin. He had just parked his bus to go on his lunch break when the bomb went off in 1974. Im not saying the IRA were blameless but they were fighting for their country and the freedom of the Irish people.

i'm not drawing any comparison but some may say that al qaeda are fighting for the freedom of their people and as far as i'm aware the opposite of freedom is suppression and that was not the case where ireland was or is concerned. sorry to hear about your daddy. i hope he recovered fully from his injuries.


He's grand now, still scarred but is alive which is the main thing
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Thu 17 Jun - 5:00

Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:
Antoinette wrote:
Marky wrote:
Antoinette wrote:

Shall we talk about the fact that the British government took 6 of our counties from IRISH people who didnt want them up the north. This is what caused all of the troubles up there in the 1st place

well, while we is at it, lets talk about republican bombs in ireland and mainland uk that killed or maimed civilians, both irish and english, or are we in that little place where we say one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? what's your view on al qaeda? only asking.


Dont tell me your comparing the IRA to Al Queda. I know only too well about the bombs in Ireland. My father was injured in one of the bombs that went off in Dublin. He had just parked his bus to go on his lunch break when the bomb went off in 1974. Im not saying the IRA were blameless but they were fighting for their country and the freedom of the Irish people.

i'm not drawing any comparison but some may say that al qaeda are fighting for the freedom of their people and as far as i'm aware the opposite of freedom is suppression and that was not the case where ireland was or is concerned. sorry to hear about your daddy. i hope he recovered fully from his injuries.


He's grand now, still scarred but is alive which is the main thing

indeed it is.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Panda on Thu 17 Jun - 12:02

I don"t know why the British kept the six Counties but the animosity between the IRA and the British Government has not lessened over the years and I wonder why a Referendum for the Northern Ireland population on whether to integrate was not considered Years ago.

It is a known fact that the U.S.A. helped the IRA with Arms and money and I don"t think this coalition will work,
already the signs of disintegration are there. The "troubles" as is often referred to stems from a long way back when Ireland faced Famine and the British Government refused to help.

If I was David Cameron I would call for an immediate Referendum to establish whether the Northern Counties
want to integrate.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Thu 17 Jun - 17:10

Panda wrote:I don"t know why the British kept the six Counties but the animosity between the IRA and the British Government has not lessened over the years and I wonder why a Referendum for the Northern Ireland population on whether to integrate was not considered Years ago.

It is a known fact that the U.S.A. helped the IRA with Arms and money and I don"t think this coalition will work,
already the signs of disintegration are there. The "troubles" as is often referred to stems from a long way back when Ireland faced Famine and the British Government refused to help.

If I was David Cameron I would call for an immediate Referendum to establish whether the Northern Counties
want to integrate.

Well said Panda. At least the people themselves can decide who they want to run their country
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Fri 18 Jun - 6:49

Antoinette wrote:
Panda wrote:I don"t know why the British kept the six Counties but the animosity between the IRA and the British Government has not lessened over the years and I wonder why a Referendum for the Northern Ireland population on whether to integrate was not considered Years ago.

It is a known fact that the U.S.A. helped the IRA with Arms and money and I don"t think this coalition will work,
already the signs of disintegration are there. The "troubles" as is often referred to stems from a long way back when Ireland faced Famine and the British Government refused to help.

If I was David Cameron I would call for an immediate Referendum to establish whether the Northern Counties
want to integrate.

Well said Panda. At least the people themselves can decide who they want to run their country

A 2008 survey found that 57% of Protestants described themselves as British, while 32% identified as Northern Irish, 6% as Ulster and 4% as Irish. Compared to the same survey carried out in 1998 this shows a fall in the percentage of Protestants identifying as British and Ulster, and a rise in those identifying as Northern Irish. The 2008 survey found that 61% of Catholics described themselves as Irish, with 25% identifying as Northern Irish, 8% as British and 1% as Ulster. These figures were largely unchanged from the 1998 results.


The population of Northern Ireland was estimated as being 1,759,000 on 10 December 2008. In the 2001 census, 45.6% of the population identified as belonging to Protestant denominations (20.7% Presbyterian, 15.3% Church of Ireland), 40.3% identified as Catholic, 0.3% identified with non-Christian religions and 13.9% identified with no religion. In terms of community background, 53.1% of the Northern Irish population came from a Protestant background, 43.8% came from a Catholic background, 0.4% from non-Christian backgrounds and 2.7% non-religious backgrounds. The population is forecast to pass the 1.8 million mark by 2011.


now then, using the figures quoted above, if there was a referendum concerning sovereignty tomorrow, what do you think the outcome would be?



personally i think one day the country will reunite. quite possibly some short time after the death of eiir.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Panda on Fri 18 Jun - 7:12

Hi Marky,

Another part of the problem is the Religious "War" between the Catholics and Prodestants. BTW, what"s eiir?
did you mean ER the second?
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Fri 18 Jun - 11:21

Panda wrote:Hi Marky,

Another part of the problem is the Religious "War" between the Catholics and Prodestants. BTW, what"s eiir?
did you mean ER the second?

That is the biggest problem up the north. Too many religions. I remember being up in Belfast a couple of years ago and we were sitting in a pub and got chatting to some of the locals who were some of the nicest people I ever met. . One of the 1st questions that came up was what religion are you. Because I didnt want to get into an argument as I didnt know what religion these people were I just said I had no religion. Once that question was out of the way we had a ball of a night up there.
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Re: Bloody Sunday verdict of the Saville Report

Post  Guest on Fri 18 Jun - 13:18

Panda wrote:Hi Marky,

Another part of the problem is the Religious "War" between the Catholics and Prodestants. BTW, what"s eiir?
did you mean ER the second?

yup, referring to her as liz seems a tad informal, don't you think?
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