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Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

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Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  HiDeHo on Tue 22 May - 3:13

As I believe something happened earlier in the week, I often try to understand and explain the crying...the last picture...why there are so many curiosities in the earlier days of the holiday.

Tuesday has many curiosities...The crying episode is one.

  1. Why only one child crying?


  1. Why did Kate have a flurry of phone calls just before the crying started?


  1. Why did the cleaner claim a cot was in the parents bedroom the following morning? Kate claims that on that night the twins slept in the room where Madeleine slept, each in their own crib.

  1. Why did the McCanns deny it?

  1. Why did Kate make some very early phone calls to her friend Amanda around 7am Wednesday?

  1. Why did Mrs Fenn tell the hairdressers that the McCanns were at Chaplins on Tuesday night (according to an employee)

  1. Why did ROB walk with Gerry and Jez to pick up their children but ROB did not sign Ella out?

  1. Why did Kate claim Gerry broke the shutters on Sunday and they were fixed Monday - (curiously, Matthew also claims to have broken his blinds on Sunday) when the maintenance fixed them Tuesday? (apparently maintemance are fast repairing according to tripadvisor guests as well as security would gieve repairs priority)

  1. Why did Gerry give the precise description of 5 ice creams (as if to confirm how many people) and the strange 'in depth' description of the guitar player.(a possible suspect?)

  1. Why did they use a buggy they claimed they didn't have?

  1. Why did they return from the beach with ice creams and drop Madeleine off to go on the 'Ice cream trip' to the beach with the creche?

  1. Ella was signed in (coincidentally) at the same time as Madeleine after her return from the beach and in the afternoon Madeleine was not signed out.

  1. Why was Rachael's description of the mini tennis (Madeleine's group played on Tuesday) attributed to Thursday in her statement where she also claims it was the last time she saw Madeleine.

  1. Why did the interviewing officer question Rachael about which Court the children played and she described Court 1 confidently but the children in both groups played on Court 2 according to the tennis records. (This tells me they were questioning whether she really DID see Madeleine's tennis lesson)

  1. Mrs Fenn heard the crying between 10.30pm and 11.45pm and Kate's mobile had a flurry of calls for the 15 minutes prior to the crying being heard. 10.16pm-10.27pm

  1. Why didn't the quiz mistress recall seeing Kate or David Payne? She noticed a place setting as if someone had left.

  1. Why didn't anyone get up and check on the children between approx 9 and 10. According to the quiz mistress noone left the table while she was there. Kate says they went to the flat four times: Gerry twice and she twice. Approx. 9, 9:30, 10, and 10:30PM.

  1. Why did Gerry start telling Jez about leaving the children?

  1. FIONA-We didnít really see Kate and Gerry for any lunchtimes, but I know one of those, I remember Kate saying it was a bit of a disaster, because Sean put his feet on the sand and didnít like it and it was cold and windy and it was all a bit of a disaster, so they didnít do it again.

  1. GERRY
    Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom with KATE as she [K] had told him that one or both twins had cried making much noise.

  1. Rachael Rog I was ill on the Tuesday night
[/list]
Although unusual, it appears to be very possible that an adult could have been in the room while the child was crying.


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090424052356AAenF9b
She would cry for hours, and I am not exaggerating. Every 30 minutes I would go in and check on her and yes she was physically ok and I don't think it will traumatize her for years but she never cried herself to sleep.

I have to ask myself why, if nothing happened to Madeleine until Thursday evening, were there so many curiosities, especially on Tuesday?




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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  tigger on Tue 22 May - 7:00

But didn't they all have lunch at the Payne's apartment every day? So how come Fiona Payne says she never saw them at lunchtime?

The remark of the Sean and sand combination being a 'disaster' - dear, dear. Says it all.

The guitar player I think is to add another creepy monster to the list and the ice cream is to show Kate as a wildly protective mother who could not move 5 yards away from the little ones. Well, well, dear, dear.
The whole little trip is to illustrate that the children actually wanted to be in the creche rather than go out with the parents. Well, must be what they were used to.
I don't believe this little episode ever happened.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  kitti on Tue 22 May - 7:20

The mccanns had Lunch once in The paynes and one off the ocean club noticed the kids going up the stairs to that apartment ..... They were each holding a plate and she noticed madeleines shoes , I think.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  mossman on Tue 22 May - 9:48

Lunch - I agree with Kitti, as far as I was aware they lunched just once with the others. They otherwise had lunch at their own apartment.

Buggy - Having no buggy was nothing more than Kate's reason for not going to the Millenium each evening, too far to walk with the kids. What I don't understand with this reasoning though is why not bring the kids to the tapas ? They did not therefore want to eat with the kids full stop, imo.

I have never in my life seen or heard of anybody with three children of that age not making arrangements to have a buggy whilst on holiday. Mark Warner provided buggies as far as I know. In my experience this would be usual in resorts that cater for children. I have never been anywhere that would not provide this service. Usually you book it before you arrive to be sure of availability. Indeed did Gerry not say they were using a buggy "kindly provided" by MW, at one stage (after the abduction of course). So buggy or no buggy - another Kate excuse, pure and simple.

Whilst I would usually never comment on somebody elses style of parenting, from what Kate McCann writes everything seems to be an ordeal. Indeed it borders on traumatic. It seems to me she was very much into routine and anything outside of that was disasterous. Beach having sand, yes it happens. Children eating it, yes it happens. Hardly the end of the world for most. The trip to the Millenium the first night was described like some religious pilgrimege, again bordering on traumatic. It all seems so bothersome to Kate.

What stands out then totally at odds with this (for me) is that she could get the three children to bed and asleep at the same time every night. Later in the Villa she talks about bedtime and the twins. Another trauma. Yet on the holiday, 7.30 - 8.00 bed, asleep, no getting up, no messing, no coming out of the room saying Mum its dark, I can hear noises, I'm not tired, nothing. That is nothing short of a miracle.

So did something happen before Thursday ? At this point I am open to any suggestion. Perhaps not a death on Tuesday, but it could well be when it all started, whatever "it all" is. Yes, Tuesday does seem significant. The other odd day was Thursday, when the McCann family seemed even more detached from the group than usual. So perhaps the significant timeline is Tuesday through to Thursday. I must re-visit Wednesday to see if anything strikes.



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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  HiDeHo on Tue 22 May - 13:57

mossman wrote: I must re-visit Wednesday to see if anything strikes.



Some research links that may be of help

The Holiday Wed May 2nd
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/The-Holiday/Wednesday-May-2nd-1-898835.html

Wednesday Timetable from all statements
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Wednesday-May-2nd/Wednesday-Timetable-from-All-Statements-1-926001.html

Wed Timeline and Timetable from all statements
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Wednesday-May-2nd/Wednesday-Timeline-Timetable-from-All-Statements-1-926018.html

Title: Where did Kate sleep Wednesday Night?
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Wednesday-May-2nd/Where-did-Kate-sleep-Wednesday-Night-1-935319.html


As opposed to looking at a 'day' and seeing if it fits the files, I have tended to look at where the discrepancies start and see if that gives an indication to explain the behaviour throughout the week.

The McCann family were seen by the cleaners daughter on Sunday around 1.30pm...Her statement is credible and reflects the time she was leaving and in my opinion is the ONLY credible statement that specifically pinpoints Madeleine during the holiday.

They were, apparently going for lunch at the Paynes and it seems their holiday started off as planned.

I am compiling videos for each day...so far I have only completed Saturday although the others are well in progress.

The McCann's 'Holiday' - SATURDAY Timeline based on Statements from Police Files


Very little is known about Sunday/Monday

HOLIDAY Schedule
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/The-Holiday/THE-HOLIDAY-SCHEDULE-with-Creche-Mobile-Times-1-775595.html

When looking at all the curiosities for Tuesday and little known about Monday except a few questions as to why Madeleine appears to have been taken out of the creche after 15 mins, possibly creating a day that was 'different' to the others but the highlights not mentioned in any of the statements...in fact many of the statements tend to claim Mon/Tuesday as opposed to being specific.

Could something have happened to Madeleine during Monday...hence Tuesday having so many curiosities?

Is that why they no longer visited for lunch at the Paynes, in fact there is a question as to how many times the others lunched with the Paynes but so far I have not compiled the statements.

Although tennis in the evenings is mentioned, I have failed to find any indication that they participated prior to Thursday when the time was changed for them. 6.00pm was too early for them to participate throughout the beginning of the week?

Kate was not seen by the quiz mistress on Tuesday at the tapas.

On Wednesday, Gerry and ROB went to the tapas together and told Jez Wilkins that Kate was putting the children to bed..Was Jane with her?

Was Kate 'suffering' / grieving at that point?

Was Madeleine playing mini tennis with the group? Georgina claims she was 'one of a group' that morning but does not specifically claim she was there.

Rachael claims she saw Madeleine playing tennis and that was the last time she saw her but attributes it to Thursday. Did she REALLY see the tennis which was on Tuesday? Was that the last time she saw Madeleine? Why did the police ask specifically which court they played on and she was incorrect in describing it?

Why the discrepancy about who took the photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls?

Gerry was playing tennis at the same time, on the court next to the Lobsters minis.

Do we know where Kate was during that week apart from 'supposedly' playing tennis and being seen by Diane Webster at breakfast in the Millenium Wednesday morning and leaving the apartment when the cleaner arrived? (leaving the patio doors open)

Could something have happened to Madeleine on Monday?

What reason did the police have to ask many people whether they saw the McCanns in a car during the holiday?

Could they have removed her body, by car, earlier in the week?

I am one of the few that does not believe Gerry walking through the streets on Thursday with Madeleine, dead in his arms.

According to Jez it was common to see parents carrying their children around at night. I do not dispute Martin Smith statement but is there another explanation?

Why did the police question details about the holiday if there was nothing untoward until Thursday night?

Why are there so many questions earlier in the week if nothing happened till Thursday night?

There are many files not released, among them are the statements of those at the tapas on Thursday night (we know Caroline Carpenter's statement is missing.)

What about the receptionist in the tapas reception? Kate tells us she wrote in the register about them leaving the children in the apartment...Apparently the tapas was open to outside guests (without MW cards) but was there someone in the reception during the evening to monitor incoming and outgoing guests and those that walked through? No statement from reception other than about the 'bookings'

Why was the last picture not included in the files....or is it...but too important to release details?

If nothing happened to Madeleine until Thursday evening then all of the above is of no consequence imo. (except tapas guest statements)

All of the above without mentioning the plethora of discrepancies starting Thursday early morning.....

I can come to no other conclusion except something happened earlier in the week and, although I have 'stumbling blocks', I'm sure there are a mountain of unknown details that could explain them.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 22 May - 16:16

mossman wrote: What I don't understand with this reasoning though is why not bring the kids to the tapas ? They did not therefore want to eat with the kids full stop, imo.

Tapas bar didn't start serving until later I think, they wanted the little pests out for the count by 7. 30. p.m.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  tigger on Tue 22 May - 16:58

kitti wrote:The mccanns had Lunch once in The paynes and one off the ocean club noticed the kids going up the stairs to that apartment ..... They were each holding a plate and she noticed madeleines shoes , I think.
That was the cleaner on the Sunday - she particularly noticed their shoes, with pink lights along the sides which went on and off.
Those trainers - if they were on Maddie, were never seen again and in the photograph of the twins about six/seven weeks later, neither twins seems to wear those, they each wear different ones. Another puzzle.
Surely those dinky trainers would have been available for DNA?

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  tigger on Tue 22 May - 17:00

mossman wrote:Lunch - I agree with Kitti, as far as I was aware they lunched just once with the others. They otherwise had lunch at their own apartment.

Buggy - Having no buggy was nothing more than Kate's reason for not going to the Millenium each evening, too far to walk with the kids. What I don't understand with this reasoning though is why not bring the kids to the tapas ? They did not therefore want to eat with the kids full stop, imo.

I have never in my life seen or heard of anybody with three children of that age not making arrangements to have a buggy whilst on holiday. Mark Warner provided buggies as far as I know. In my experience this would be usual in resorts that cater for children. I have never been anywhere that would not provide this service. Usually you book it before you arrive to be sure of availability. Indeed did Gerry not say they were using a buggy "kindly provided" by MW, at one stage (after the abduction of course). So buggy or no buggy - another Kate excuse, pure and simple.

Whilst I would usually never comment on somebody elses style of parenting, from what Kate McCann writes everything seems to be an ordeal. Indeed it borders on traumatic. It seems to me she was very much into routine and anything outside of that was disasterous. Beach having sand, yes it happens. Children eating it, yes it happens. Hardly the end of the world for most. The trip to the Millenium the first night was described like some religious pilgrimege, again bordering on traumatic. It all seems so bothersome to Kate.

What stands out then totally at odds with this (for me) is that she could get the three children to bed and asleep at the same time every night. Later in the Villa she talks about bedtime and the twins. Another trauma. Yet on the holiday, 7.30 - 8.00 bed, asleep, no getting up, no messing, no coming out of the room saying Mum its dark, I can hear noises, I'm not tired, nothing. That is nothing short of a miracle.

So did something happen before Thursday ? At this point I am open to any suggestion. Perhaps not a death on Tuesday, but it could well be when it all started, whatever "it all" is. Yes, Tuesday does seem significant. The other odd day was Thursday, when the McCann family seemed even more detached from the group than usual. So perhaps the significant timeline is Tuesday through to Thursday. I must re-visit Wednesday to see if anything strikes.



Have you read '30 days' by Dr. Roberts? Very illuminating.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  Bobsy on Tue 22 May - 17:35

tigger wrote:
mossman wrote:Lunch - I agree with Kitti, as far as I was aware they lunched just once with the others. They otherwise had lunch at their own apartment.

Buggy - Having no buggy was nothing more than Kate's reason for not going to the Millenium each evening, too far to walk with the kids. What I don't understand with this reasoning though is why not bring the kids to the tapas ? They did not therefore want to eat with the kids full stop, imo.

I have never in my life seen or heard of anybody with three children of that age not making arrangements to have a buggy whilst on holiday. Mark Warner provided buggies as far as I know. In my experience this would be usual in resorts that cater for children. I have never been anywhere that would not provide this service. Usually you book it before you arrive to be sure of availability. Indeed did Gerry not say they were using a buggy "kindly provided" by MW, at one stage (after the abduction of course). So buggy or no buggy - another Kate excuse, pure and simple.

Whilst I would usually never comment on somebody elses style of parenting, from what Kate McCann writes everything seems to be an ordeal. Indeed it borders on traumatic. It seems to me she was very much into routine and anything outside of that was disasterous. Beach having sand, yes it happens. Children eating it, yes it happens. Hardly the end of the world for most. The trip to the Millenium the first night was described like some religious pilgrimege, again bordering on traumatic. It all seems so bothersome to Kate.

What stands out then totally at odds with this (for me) is that she could get the three children to bed and asleep at the same time every night. Later in the Villa she talks about bedtime and the twins. Another trauma. Yet on the holiday, 7.30 - 8.00 bed, asleep, no getting up, no messing, no coming out of the room saying Mum its dark, I can hear noises, I'm not tired, nothing. That is nothing short of a miracle.

So did something happen before Thursday ? At this point I am open to any suggestion. Perhaps not a death on Tuesday, but it could well be when it all started, whatever "it all" is. Yes, Tuesday does seem significant. The other odd day was Thursday, when the McCann family seemed even more detached from the group than usual. So perhaps the significant timeline is Tuesday through to Thursday. I must re-visit Wednesday to see if anything strikes.



Have you read '30 days' by Dr. Roberts? Very illuminating.

I have not read that Tigger, do you have a link handy please?

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 22 May - 18:24

Dr Martin Roberts....30 days

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3275-dr-martin-roberts-thirty-days

Thirty days hath September, April, June and November. The rest have thirty-one (except for May which, in 2007, was short by one Wednesday).

"Wednesday, 2 May, 2007. Our last completely happy day. Our last, to date, as a family of five." (Kate McCann in 'Madeleine' p.59).

Ripe for recollection, this particular Wednesday in May ought to feature conspicuously in the McCanns' various accounts of the truth, yet it does not; even in Kate McCann's recently published attempt at putting the record straight. Although the nocturnal shenanigans are ritually described, references to the diurnal aspect of that 'last completely happy (family) day' are conspicuous only by their near absence. The sentence quoted above is followed by two short paragraphs. And that's it. Heralded as a major event, Wednesday 2 May proves, in fact, to be something of a non-event.

O.K., so it rained. It's still possible to have family fun indoors, even in a small holiday apartment. Unless of course you are desperate to off-load the children so you can show off your new pink trainers down at the beach again with Matt, running the gauntlet of small dogs. That must have been a long run, taking up most of the morning, as the next thing that happens is "Gerry and I picked up the children, had lunch in the apartment and then took them to the play area for an hour before walking them to their clubs." (p.60). Tennis was rescheduled. "After that it was the usual routine: tea with the children, playtime, bath time, milk, stories, kids' bedtime, get ready, Tapas at 8.30 p.m."

And that, dear reader, is the extent of the family experience on Wednesday 2 May.

Some might consider an interval of several years adequate justification for poor recall, but such justification cannot apply to an interval of only one week! Here's what Gerry McCann had to say to Portuguese investigators on 10 May, 2007. Notice how Wednesday daytime fails to merit a mention:

"Concerning the routine, on Tuesday there was a slight change given that after lunch, at 13H30, the deponent and KATE decided to take the three children to Praia da Luz, having gone on foot, taking only the twins in baby buggies. They all left by the main door because of the buggies, went around to the right, down the street of the "BATISTA" supermarket and went to the beach along a road directly ahead.

"They were at the beach for about 20 minutes...

"On the day that MADELEINE disappeared, Thursday, 3 May 2007, they all woke up at the same time, between 07H30 and 08H00. When they were having breakfast, MADELEINE addressed her mother and asked her "why didn't you come last night when SEAN and I were crying?"

"On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, apart from the deponent and his wife, he thinks that DAVID PAYNE also went to his apartment to check that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children...

"He cannot say exactly, but he thinks that on Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom, with KATE, as she had told him that one or both twins were crying, making much noise.

"Back to Thursday..."

Back to Thursday. Without ever having visited Wednesday, either on the 10th or the week previously (the 4th), although Kate manages to mention it, just, during her earliest interview:

"Apart from that, on Wednesday or Thursday, Madeleine and the other children went sailing at the beach, five minutes away from the club, for an hour, in an event that was organised by the resort. The surveillance of this activity and the organisation were done by the club, and the deponent was not present, nor was her husband."

Not only are Wednesday and Thursday evidently interchangeable but, in terms of Madeleine's known whereabouts, that was a matter for resort staff, as neither Kate nor Gerry was present during the organised activity. (Gerry makes a comparable observation in his own 4 May statement).

The McCanns' 'last completely happy day' appears to have been dropped from the calendar, whilst confirmation of Madeleine's presence rests squarely with Mark Warner nannies. There are the creche registers of course (well, they exist at least), and the occasional 'sightings' by third parties.

According to Nanny Cat Baker's 10 May responses to Portuguese police inquiries, Madeleine should have been with her at the beach on Tuesday, Wednesday [15.30 - 16.30] AND Thursday [10.00 - 11.00] when she had a boat trip - at the same time as Jane Tanner is supposed, by Rachael Oldfield, to have taken her photograph while engaged in mini-tennis - which she did not do according to Russell O'Brien.

But we are more concerned with the Wednesday. As was Dianne Webster:

4078 "When was the last time you saw Madeleine?"
Reply "(Sighs) You see I don't remember seeing her on the Thursday because I didn't go to the high tea, err but I was apparently in the play area afterwards but I can't recall that."
4078 "Okay."
Reply "Err so from what I can recall, the last time I would have seen Madeleine would have been the Wednesday at the high tea probably."

Use of the conditional + 'probably' does not mean it happened. For all we know the witness may even have partaken of 'probably the best lager in the world' (instead of high tea).

As far as the McCanns were concerned, May 2007 consisted of thirty recorded days. But surely even two paragraphs from Kate justify recognising the full thirty-one? Well, if you insist. But, in terms of diurnal activity, the result is the same. Monday isn't accounted for either - neither in their statements, nor the book.

Between two deleted days therefore we have a duplicate visit to the beach and, from Wednesday evening through Thursday, a succession of questionable 'checks' and 'sightings.' It's just as well we have the handful of photographs taken in Praia da Luz, including the 'last' one, or we might be tempted to question whether Madeleine was seen at all that week by anyone except her parents.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html




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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  mossman on Tue 22 May - 18:49

Bobsy wrote:
tigger wrote:
mossman wrote:Lunch - I agree with Kitti, as far as I was aware they lunched just once with the others. They otherwise had lunch at their own apartment.

Buggy - Having no buggy was nothing more than Kate's reason for not going to the Millenium each evening, too far to walk with the kids. What I don't understand with this reasoning though is why not bring the kids to the tapas ? They did not therefore want to eat with the kids full stop, imo.

I have never in my life seen or heard of anybody with three children of that age not making arrangements to have a buggy whilst on holiday. Mark Warner provided buggies as far as I know. In my experience this would be usual in resorts that cater for children. I have never been anywhere that would not provide this service. Usually you book it before you arrive to be sure of availability. Indeed did Gerry not say they were using a buggy "kindly provided" by MW, at one stage (after the abduction of course). So buggy or no buggy - another Kate excuse, pure and simple.

Whilst I would usually never comment on somebody elses style of parenting, from what Kate McCann writes everything seems to be an ordeal. Indeed it borders on traumatic. It seems to me she was very much into routine and anything outside of that was disasterous. Beach having sand, yes it happens. Children eating it, yes it happens. Hardly the end of the world for most. The trip to the Millenium the first night was described like some religious pilgrimege, again bordering on traumatic. It all seems so bothersome to Kate.

What stands out then totally at odds with this (for me) is that she could get the three children to bed and asleep at the same time every night. Later in the Villa she talks about bedtime and the twins. Another trauma. Yet on the holiday, 7.30 - 8.00 bed, asleep, no getting up, no messing, no coming out of the room saying Mum its dark, I can hear noises, I'm not tired, nothing. That is nothing short of a miracle.

So did something happen before Thursday ? At this point I am open to any suggestion. Perhaps not a death on Tuesday, but it could well be when it all started, whatever "it all" is. Yes, Tuesday does seem significant. The other odd day was Thursday, when the McCann family seemed even more detached from the group than usual. So perhaps the significant timeline is Tuesday through to Thursday. I must re-visit Wednesday to see if anything strikes.



Have you read '30 days' by Dr. Roberts? Very illuminating.

I have not read that Tigger, do you have a link handy please?


Tigger, thank you for the links I look forward to reading them tonight.

Dr Roberts is indeed interesting. You really do have to ask who saw Madeleine for certain and when. I take the statements made by those outside of the tapas group with a pinch of salt. I have no doubt most were well intentioned, but i keep going back to the same question - how or why would they have taken any particular interest in Madeleine, to the extent they would be instantly able to identify her. She was just another tourist, just another little English girl with blond hair on holiday with her family, and indeed for only a few short days. Perhaps towards the end of a two week holiday, she would be known and remembered but two, three, four days in - I don't think so.

The creche records continually come back as being vital. It would be so useful to establish exactly how reliable the systems they had in place were. Why did each parent from their group go with each child every single pick up and collection time ? If it were me on holiday with a group of friends I feel sure I would call next door and say I'm off to the creche will I take your little one too. Indeed they were so heavily involved in their activities it would make sense to have an arrangement in place for collection time too - you collect today and I will tomorrow or vice versa. For a group of friends they appear to have been very independent of each other, until of course at night for the tapas event.

Some holiday - everybody back and forth to creche and play groups a few times a day. Because the McCanns children were in two different groups, that was eight drops and collections per day for them alone, then up and down every fifteen minutes from the table to check the children at night. They would have gone home exhausted.

bobsy - you can read it here :

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/08/mccanns-drroberts-thirty-days-casting.html

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  tigger on Tue 22 May - 19:04

As this isn't too long a piece - I've copied it here - you can find all Dr. Roberts' articles on McCannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
05 August 2011

THIRTY DAYS

Thirty days hath September, April, June and November. The rest have thirty-one (except for May which, in 2007, was short by one Wednesday).

"Wednesday, 2 May, 2007. Our last completely happy day. Our last, to date, as a family of five." (Kate McCann in 'Madeleine' p.59).

Ripe for recollection, this particular Wednesday in May ought to feature conspicuously in the McCanns' various accounts of the truth, yet it does not; even in Kate McCann's recently published attempt at putting the record straight. Although the nocturnal shenanigans are ritually described, references to the diurnal aspect of that 'last completely happy (family) day' are conspicuous only by their near absence. The sentence quoted above is followed by two short paragraphs. And that's it. Heralded as a major event, Wednesday 2 May proves, in fact, to be something of a non-event.

O.K., so it rained. It's still possible to have family fun indoors, even in a small holiday apartment. Unless of course you are desperate to off-load the children so you can show off your new pink trainers down at the beach again with Matt, running the gauntlet of small dogs. That must have been a long run, taking up most of the morning, as the next thing that happens is "Gerry and I picked up the children, had lunch in the apartment and then took them to the play area for an hour before walking them to their clubs." (p.60). Tennis was rescheduled. "After that it was the usual routine: tea with the children, playtime, bath time, milk, stories, kids' bedtime, get ready, Tapas at 8.30 p.m."

And that, dear reader, is the extent of the family experience on Wednesday 2 May.

Some might consider an interval of several years adequate justification for poor recall, but such justification cannot apply to an interval of only one week! Here's what Gerry McCann had to say to Portuguese investigators on 10 May, 2007. Notice how Wednesday daytime fails to merit a mention:

"Concerning the routine, on Tuesday there was a slight change given that after lunch, at 13H30, the deponent and KATE decided to take the three children to Praia da Luz, having gone on foot, taking only the twins in baby buggies. They all left by the main door because of the buggies, went around to the right, down the street of the "BATISTA" supermarket and went to the beach along a road directly ahead.

"They were at the beach for about 20 minutes...

"On the day that MADELEINE disappeared, Thursday, 3 May 2007, they all woke up at the same time, between 07H30 and 08H00. When they were having breakfast, MADELEINE addressed her mother and asked her "why didn't you come last night when SEAN and I were crying?"

"On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, apart from the deponent and his wife, he thinks that DAVID PAYNE also went to his apartment to check that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children...

"He cannot say exactly, but he thinks that on Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom, with KATE, as she had told him that one or both twins were crying, making much noise.

"Back to Thursday..."

Back to Thursday. Without ever having visited Wednesday, either on the 10th or the week previously (the 4th), although Kate manages to mention it, just, during her earliest interview:

"Apart from that, on Wednesday or Thursday, Madeleine and the other children went sailing at the beach, five minutes away from the club, for an hour, in an event that was organised by the resort. The surveillance of this activity and the organisation were done by the club, and the deponent was not present, nor was her husband."

Not only are Wednesday and Thursday evidently interchangeable but, in terms of Madeleine's known whereabouts, that was a matter for resort staff, as neither Kate nor Gerry was present during the organised activity. (Gerry makes a comparable observation in his own 4 May statement).

The McCanns' 'last completely happy day' appears to have been dropped from the calendar, whilst confirmation of Madeleine's presence rests squarely with Mark Warner nannies. There are the creche registers of course (well, they exist at least), and the occasional 'sightings' by third parties.

According to Nanny Cat Baker's 10 May responses to Portuguese police inquiries, Madeleine should have been with her at the beach on Tuesday, Wednesday [15.30 - 16.30] AND Thursday [10.00 - 11.00] when she had a boat trip - at the same time as Jane Tanner is supposed, by Rachael Oldfield, to have taken her photograph while engaged in mini-tennis - which she did not do according to Russell O'Brien.

But we are more concerned with the Wednesday. As was Dianne Webster:

4078 "When was the last time you saw Madeleine?"
Reply "(Sighs) You see I don't remember seeing her on the Thursday because I didn't go to the high tea, err but I was apparently in the play area afterwards but I can't recall that."
4078 "Okay."
Reply "Err so from what I can recall, the last time I would have seen Madeleine would have been the Wednesday at the high tea probably."

Use of the conditional + 'probably' does not mean it happened. For all we know the witness may even have partaken of 'probably the best lager in the world' (instead of high tea).

As far as the McCanns were concerned, May 2007 consisted of thirty recorded days. But surely even two paragraphs from Kate justify recognising the full thirty-one? Well, if you insist. But, in terms of diurnal activity, the result is the same. Monday isn't accounted for either - neither in their statements, nor the book.

Between two deleted days therefore we have a duplicate visit to the beach and, from Wednesday evening through Thursday, a succession of questionable 'checks' and 'sightings.' It's just as well we have the handful of photographs taken in Praia da Luz, including the 'last' one, or we might be tempted to question whether Madeleine was seen at all that week by anyone except her parents.

tigger
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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  marxman on Tue 22 May - 19:49

"Perhaps towards the end of a two week holiday, she would be known and remembered but two, three, four days in - I don't think so." (mossman)

Just a small point, I believe they were on a
one week holiday.


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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  Bobsy on Tue 22 May - 20:00

Thank you everyone who posted the link and the text. How very interesting the almost lack of detail of their last day as a family, I would cherish every moment, the last day of someone being with me. When you compare the other twaddle they tell us about it is just so odd the lack of detail.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  mossman on Tue 22 May - 20:43

marxman wrote:"Perhaps towards the end of a two week holiday, she would be known and remembered but two, three, four days in - I don't think so." (mossman)

Just a small point, I believe they were on a
one week holiday.



Sorry, I was not clear. Yes it was a one week holiday. My point was that IF staff were going to be familiar with Madeleine or indeed any tourist, it would be towards the end of a holiday of two weeks duration not two or three days into a one week holiday.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  ann_chovey on Tue 22 May - 20:46

Bobsy wrote:Thank you everyone who posted the link and the text. How very interesting the almost lack of detail of their last day as a family, I would cherish every moment, the last day of someone being with me. When you compare the other twaddle they tell us about it is just so odd the lack of detail.

Spot on Bobsy, they are all umms and errs. My Dad died suddenly 30 years ago, I remember what we talked about and what I was doing the previous afternoon when he called round.

(We talked about my little girl as I was sewing)

What a shower they are.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

Post  Bobsy on Tue 22 May - 20:54

ann_chovey wrote:
Bobsy wrote:Thank you everyone who posted the link and the text. How very interesting the almost lack of detail of their last day as a family, I would cherish every moment, the last day of someone being with me. When you compare the other twaddle they tell us about it is just so odd the lack of detail.

Spot on Bobsy, they are all umms and errs. My Dad died suddenly 30 years ago, I remember what we talked about and what I was doing the previous afternoon when he called round.

(We talked about my little girl as I was sewing)

What a shower they are.
And these are the precious moments and you will remember those moments as long as you are able to remember. I bet we have all on this forum got such memories, very precious times. Ah but Kate did remember the Gap and Monsoon outfit, figures.

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Re: Why are there so many questions about Tuesday May 1st?

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