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Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

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Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  interested on Sun 19 Jan - 17:52

"Laid to Rest" by Dr. Martin Roberts is available at mccannfiles.com (under Latest News - scroll down) Well worth reading!!!

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  frencheuropean on Sun 19 Jan - 18:19


Laid to Rest



EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
18 January 2014


LAID TO REST

The normal distribution determines that most people will learn from their own mistakes. A few will have the good fortune to learn from the mistakes of others, while an equal proportion will struggle to learn anything at all, and probably go on to join an internet forum where they can exclusively discuss what they consider to be the 'stupidity' of others, while remaining completely oblivious to their own.

It is not a crime, legally or otherwise, for anyone to form a view or hold an opinion as regards on-going tragedy. As a social animal we thrive on discussion and, until the facts are known, speculation, as much as anything else, serves to keep a topic alive in the public consciousness. In a more close-knit, thinking community, it might be considered 'conjecture'. Whatever one may choose to call it however, it is entirely permissible, not something to be dismissively frowned upon, and, most importantly, sometimes correct. Given a clear bi-polar argument both parties cannot be wrong. Indeed science thrives upon the experimental resolution of such hypothetical conflicts.

Recent events in Edinburgh concerning the young child, Mikaeel Kular, understandably provoked comment from the outset. With known instances of child abuse still fresh in the mind, the unflinching efforts of those marshalled to search for the missing waif served as a poignant contrast to the early suspicions of others, many of whom will have made their comments under their breath if they made them at all, whereas some were doubtless more vocal, even if only in the sense of expressing themselves via the 'social media'. Tragically, for the infant, the 'cynical' view has prevailed. It benefits no one to lambast those who might have suggested that, perhaps suspiciously, the only source for the information that her child was last seen at around 7.30 p.m. on a given night was the mother who claimed to have put him to bed. As we now know, the fate of the poor boy was indeed determined at a different time, and in a different place.

A former Portuguese police co-ordinator, Goncalo Amaral is nobody's fool. In terms of the normal distribution referred to above he is comfortably among the 68% in the middle, but in terms of police work, and given his professional experience, he most likely resides among the upper quartile. Hence he ought perhaps to take more than a passing interest in events of the last few days in Scotland. For whilst the police and other forces there have clearly played the situation 'by the book', and not laid themselves open to accusation of error in so doing, in the light of what we now know, had the search persisted, and proved entirely fruitless into the bargain, it would have been, in truth, an error-prone procedure; not a deliberate one I hasten to add, but a factual one nonetheless.

Goncalo Amaral might therefore consider himself in a position to learn from a mistake or two: a mistaken (although entirely sensible) assumption on the part of Scottish community members, police and populace alike, that little Mikaeel was wandering in the wilderness, and a view which he and his former police colleagues once shared – that Madeleine McCann suffered an accident on the night of Thursday 3 May, 2007. But who actually put the McCann children to bed that Thursday night?

KM (statement to police, 6.9.07): 'They also kissed Madeleine, who was already lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks, because it was a bit cold... She remained lying down on her left side, with the soft toy and a pink blanket, which she thinks was covering her.'

GM (from the documentary, Madeleine Was Here):"So, I actually came in and Madeleine was just at the top of the bed here, where I'd left her lying and the covers were folded down and she had her cuddle cat and blanket, were just by her head."

KM (6.9.07): 'After Gerry arrived the children went to brush their teeth and she then read them another story, this time all four of them sitting on Madeleine's bed. She thinks that Gerry entered the room, but does not recall him sitting on the bed.… she thinks that Gerry was in the room, and each one of them, the deponent and Gerry, placed a twin in its cot at the same time, between Madeleine's bed and the bed under the window. They also kissed Madeleine, who was already lying down.'

GM (statement to police, 10.5.07): 'At around 19H00, he made his way to the apartment, finding Kate and the children playing on the sofa. About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on Madeleine's bed to read a story.'

KM (6.9.07): 'They talked while they drank, until they left for the Tapas restaurant at around 8.30-8.35 p.m. Before leaving they checked on the children, she doesn't know who; however Gerry says it was him. She only knows the children were quiet. She doesn't know if they were in their same positions. She says she is sure that they were asleep, because Gerry told her so and all was quiet.'


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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Mon 20 Jan - 7:42

The McCanns went to dinner well before 8.30/35 , apparently always the first to arrive. Also, I don't remember Madeleine's bed being between the cots .

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Wintabells on Mon 20 Jan - 13:05

Panda wrote: Also, I don't remember Madeleine's bed being between the cots .

"placed a twin in its cot at the same time, between Madeleine's bed and the bed under the window."


The twins' cots were between Madeleine's bed and the bed under the window, Panda.


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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Mon 20 Jan - 13:24

Wintabells wrote:
Panda wrote: Also, I don't remember Madeleine's bed being between the cots .

"placed a twin in its cot at the same time, between Madeleine's bed and the bed under the window."


The twins' cots were between Madeleine's bed and the bed under the window, Panda.


OOPS Wintabells, my mistake x

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  mossman on Mon 20 Jan - 13:36

How can Kate not remember when the last time she saw Madeleine was ? Was she blind drunk going down to the Tapas ? Nobody but nobody could forget the last time they saw their child. They would replay that image over and over, think about the what ifs, wonder if they could have done something differently (obviously not going out in this instance).

It just cannot be true that she does not know if she looked in on the children before leaving. Either they were not there to look at or Thursday night is not the night "it" happened.

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Keela on Mon 20 Jan - 15:59

mossman wrote:How can Kate not remember when the last time she saw Madeleine was ? Was she blind drunk going down to the Tapas ?  Nobody but nobody could forget the last time they saw their child.  They would replay that image over and over, think about the what ifs, wonder if they could have done something differently (obviously not going out in this instance).

It just cannot be true that she does not know if she looked in on the children before leaving.  Either they were not there to look at or Thursday night is not the night "it" happened.


Totally agree with you. She is so vague about things which would be clear in her mind ( or should be).

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Guest on Mon 20 Jan - 16:23

There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots." Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping? (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Mon 20 Jan - 16:36

Kate is/was afraid of saying too much for fear of incriminating herself.Gerry's Mother in an iterview said Kate had a temper and shouted at Gerry "It's me they are after , not you" . When it was obvious there was no "Abductor" the Portugese Policce should have ordered a recon and the timelines would have caught them out , maybe Kate would have cracked.How can you accept the McCanns "abductor" theory when there is no evidence of abduction at all?

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  jinvta on Tue 21 Jan - 0:22

Iris wrote:There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots."  Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping?  (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).

I remember this too, something about the twins sleeping on one of the beds. Perhaps they shared a bed and didn't sleep in the cots? This would explain why there were never any sheets on the cots. Yuck!

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  AnnaEsse on Tue 21 Jan - 6:11

jinvta wrote:
Iris wrote:There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots."  Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping?  (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).

I remember this too, something about the twins sleeping on one of the beds. Perhaps they shared a bed and didn't sleep in the cots? This would explain why there were never any sheets on the cots. Yuck!

Vanity Fair interview.

It wasn’t until Kate walked into the villa at 10 and felt a sickening breeze—the front window had been jimmied open—that she realized something terrible had happened. “The scene was stark,” Gerry tells me. On one bed the twins lay sleeping. In the next lay only the plush cat toy Madeleine was never without. That was when Kate came out screaming, “Madeleine has gone!”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/02/mccanns200802

_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You can run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Run on for a long time, Sooner or later God'll cut you down." (Johnny Cash)

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Jan - 7:23

AnnaEsse wrote:
jinvta wrote:
Iris wrote:There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots."  Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping?  (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).

I remember this too, something about the twins sleeping on one of the beds. Perhaps they shared a bed and didn't sleep in the cots? This would explain why there were never any sheets on the cots. Yuck!

Vanity Fair interview.

It wasn’t until Kate walked into the villa at 10 and felt a sickening breeze—the front window had been jimmied open—that she realized something terrible had happened. “The scene was stark,” Gerry tells me. On one bed the twins lay sleeping. In the next lay only the plush cat toy Madeleine was never without. That was when Kate came out screaming, “Madeleine has gone!”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/02/mccanns200802



Thanks for that Annaesse. It's interesting because I'm sure this is another reference to them sleeping on a bed. The other is a video as Jinvta says, which one i can't remember now, but Gerry is driving a car whilst talking, it could be the documentary they made.


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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Tue 21 Jan - 7:39

The McCanns really have proved to be blatant liars and Kate had the audacity to include the open window and jemmied shutter in the Emma Roach film on Channel 4 to mark the second Anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. when the Police had stated the Shutter hadn't been jemmied and Kate's was the only print on the window.

Strangely enough a friend phoned last night from Jersey where i used to live, she knows my interest/obsession with the McCann case and doesn't share my theory that the McCanns were culpable. Anyway, she told me that she had been in discussion with people "in the know" and there is absolutely no evidence that the McCanns are involved, we agreed to differ.  

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  marxman on Tue 21 Jan - 9:28

Iris wrote:There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots."  Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping?  (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).


It seems that Gerry is following a script, badly! And like Kate
he finds it difficult to stay on line. This should indicate that
neither parent was present on this fateful evening because
all the children were elsewhere and Not at 5a!
This would explain those inconsistencies when they are faced
with the finer details.

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Tue 21 Jan - 10:08

marxman wrote:
Iris wrote:There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots."  Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping?  (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).


It seems that Gerry is following a script, badly! And like Kate
he finds it difficult to stay on line. This should indicate that
neither parent was present on this fateful evening because
all the children were elsewhere and Not at 5a!
This would explain those inconsistencies when they are faced
with the finer details.

Morning marxman, the inconsistencies stem from the fact that they had to take account of the Tapas 7 and THEIR statements. I have never subscribed to the idea that all the children except the Paynes were placed in 1 room. The McCanns stated "abduction" the minute they discovered Madeleine was missing. That was an odd word to use, "missing"
or "kidnapped".....no, kidnap is for ransom and despite the NOTW offering P 2, million, not one person came forward to claim it. To me, using the word "abduction" suggests the McCanns know what happened to Madeleine.

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  T4two on Tue 21 Jan - 10:34

It is actually possible that neither the twins nor Madeleine were sleeping in 5a. It is unlikely that the twins were sleeping in those cots without any bedclothes and the bed that Madeleine was alleged to have been sleeping in was undisturbed. A likely scenario is that Madeleine was elsewhere i.e. that whatever happened took place before the night the alarm was raised and that on alarm night the twins were with the others to be hastily brought back to 5a after the alarm had been raised. If I rcall it was the PJ who broached the possibility of all the children sleeping under supervision in one place. What grounds did the PJ have for this suspicion one wonders - a suspicion which was vehemently denied by TM at the time.

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  kitti on Tue 21 Jan - 10:35

Vanity fair interview with KM


'was Madeleine asleep when you left'......pause.



Simple questions seem to be their downfall.

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  wjk on Tue 21 Jan - 12:38

mossman wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
jinvta wrote:
Iris wrote:There is a video (I forget which one) where Gerry contradicts himself.... "the twins were sleeping on the... in their cots."  Doesn't he remember where his kids were sleeping?  (I'm not sure what it means but I'm sure it's important).

I remember this too, something about the twins sleeping on one of the beds. Perhaps they shared a bed and didn't sleep in the cots? This would explain why there were never any sheets on the cots. Yuck!

Vanity Fair interview.

It wasn’t until Kate walked into the villa at 10 and felt a sickening breeze—the front window had been jimmied open—that she realized something terrible had happened. “The scene was stark,” Gerry tells me. On one bed the twins lay sleeping. In the next lay only the plush cat toy Madeleine was never without. That was when Kate came out screaming, “Madeleine has gone!”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/02/mccanns200802



Thanks for that Annaesse.  It's interesting because I'm sure this is another reference to them sleeping on a bed.  The other is a video as Jinvta says, which one i can't remember now, but Gerry is driving a car whilst talking, it could be the documentary they made.

That could be the one Jon Corner made where he followed them about?

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Tue 21 Jan - 12:45

I doubt they would have all been in one room because Jane reported that Ellie was sick and O'Brien went to attend to her. The Paynes were on the floor above and had a monitor . The more children you have in one room the more chance of one waking up and crying which would wake the others up.We know Madeleine was a light sleeper .

Does anyone remember that in 3as someone posted that O'Brien was called to 5a to perform a tracheotomy on Madeleine which failed. There was mention of a sheet stained with blood which was hung over the balcony .

I wonder what Kate meant when she shouted "theyv'e taken her", was it planned to plant the word "abduction"?

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  widowan on Tue 21 Jan - 13:54

While it wouldn't surprise me that they'd try to save MM themselves, via any means - because they're better at everything than the Portuguese etc - I'm not sure why anyone likes the idea that the kids weren't asleep at their own apt.

Kate said the twins and their bed sheets were taken to Payne's.

What does it get us to put the kids in another apt? It hardly matters where they were during the event as so heavily sedated they didn't wake up even in the cold with people screaming and crying and running around. ?

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  mossman on Tue 21 Jan - 14:16

WJK thanks, I think it is the Corner movie.

Whilst I was not referring to the kids all being together somewhere else, just that a couple of times Gerry seems to mention them on a bed as opposed to in their cots, whether they were all together in a room somewhere else does matter, I think.

For one thing, the milk, cookies, bedtime story goes out the window, couldn't have happened that way if they were not in 5a. Might also explain why Kate does not remember if she saw the kids before leaving for the Tapas that night. It might also explain the missing sick adult acting as a babysitter each evening and most of all it would render Madeleine being abducted from 5a impossible.

I would consider it unlikely all children were in one apartment, but like everything else in this story, it is possible until we know for certain otherwise. Paynes children could have been alone with a monitor and the other kids together. O'Briens child was very very ill prior to holiday so there may have been concern the holiday illness was a symptom of the first one and most parents would want to check themselves, babysitter or not.

Speculation only of course, but possible in theory and it has never been absolutely proven everyone was where we are told they were. Most of all, because the McCanns say they were in 5a, I wouldn't discount it entirely.

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

Post  Panda on Tue 21 Jan - 15:44

widowan wrote:While it wouldn't surprise me that they'd try to save MM themselves, via any means - because they're better at everything than the Portuguese etc - I'm not sure why anyone likes the idea that the kids weren't asleep at their own apt.

Kate said the twins and their bed sheets were taken to Payne's.

What does it get us to put the kids in another apt? It hardly matters where they were during the event as so heavily sedated they didn't wake up even in the cold with people screaming and crying and running around. ?

widowan, Kate is a bigger liar than Tom Pepper, as we already know from the windows and Shutters. I suspect a lot of these quotes have been taken from her Book which is a fiction. Also, if you remember, when the twins were moved to the Paynes, they were in their cots which they had slept throught everything.....

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Re: Laid to Rest by Dr. Martin Roberts

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