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The conclusion I draw from this is that the Portuguese judiciary require a higher level of evidence than SY are used to providing.

jassi wrote:The conclusion I draw from this is that the Portuguese judiciary require a higher level of evidence than SY are used to providing.

Evidence only comes from searching though, especially houses. If there are people to be ruled in or out get on with it please Portugal?

LJC wrote:

jassi wrote:The conclusion I draw from this is that the Portuguese judiciary require a higher level of evidence than SY are used to providing.

Evidence only comes from searching though, especially houses.  If there are people to be ruled in or out get on with it please Portugal?

That might be the UK method, but obviously there has not  been sufficient evidence presented to satisfy a Portuguese judge. These people might have absolutely nothing to do with the Madeleine case.

jassi wrote:

LJC wrote:

jassi wrote:The conclusion I draw from this is that the Portuguese judiciary require a higher level of evidence than SY are used to providing.

Evidence only comes from searching though, especially houses.  If there are people to be ruled in or out get on with it please Portugal?

That might be the UK method, but obviously there has not  been sufficient evidence presented to satisfy a Portuguese judge.  These people might have absolutely nothing to do with the Madeleine case.

Sounds like Catch 22 to me. To get permission to search a house needs evidence first which can only be found if the house is searched.

LJC wrote:

jassi wrote:

LJC wrote:

jassi wrote:The conclusion I draw from this is that the Portuguese judiciary require a higher level of evidence than SY are used to providing.

Evidence only comes from searching though, especially houses.  If there are people to be ruled in or out get on with it please Portugal?

That might be the UK method, but obviously there has not  been sufficient evidence presented to satisfy a Portuguese judge.  These people might have absolutely nothing to do with the Madeleine case.

Sounds like Catch 22 to me.  To get permission to search a house needs evidence first which can only be found if the house is searched.

That would sound like a 'fishing trip' to me. Why should people have their privacy invaded without sufficient evidence to justify it?

  well it sounds to me as if the judge has put his foot down and said yes to the digs but no to finding a Portuguese patsy to be blamed for any evidence found.

In the US the police must show probable cause and obtain a search warrant to search someone's private property. There must be some similar privacy laws in Portugal. I am sure that SY has done no such thing.

jinvta wrote:In the US the police must show probable cause and obtain a search warrant to search someone's private property. There must be some similar privacy laws in Portugal. I am sure that SY has done no such thing.

I've no doubt there are laws and I've no doubt SY follow the law. It applies in the UK too. But given there is intelligence that links this individual/s to trespassing/break-ins, in the PDL area, I think its a great pity that Portugal has declined. A missing child is of paramount importance and that is why SY have made these requests.

LJC wrote:

jinvta wrote:In the US the police must show probable cause and obtain a search warrant to search someone's private property. There must be some similar privacy laws in Portugal. I am sure that SY has done no such thing.

I've no doubt there are laws and I've no doubt SY follow the law.  It applies in the UK too.  But given there is intelligence that links this individual/s to trespassing/break-ins, in the PDL area, I think its a great pity that Portugal has declined.  A missing child is of paramount importance and that is why SY have made these requests.

We don't really know why SY has made these requests.
I think Redwood, or some other officer admitted that there was no evidence to link the burglaries with the Madeleine case.
Clearly the judge was not satisfied.

Lets just remember that SY are just reading the Portuguese files and those of the private dicks.

Any houses that the PJ thought should be searched probably already have been.Any land the dogs have already been all over like a rash.
Why should the Portuguese agree for a foreign police force to invade their territory on a whim ?

You need something of substance to go and dig someones garden up.Its not a very nice thing to do just to rule things in or maybe rule things out.That is no way to behave in someone elses house.

jassi wrote:

LJC wrote:

jinvta wrote:In the US the police must show probable cause and obtain a search warrant to search someone's private property. There must be some similar privacy laws in Portugal. I am sure that SY has done no such thing.

I've no doubt there are laws and I've no doubt SY follow the law.  It applies in the UK too.  But given there is intelligence that links this individual/s to trespassing/break-ins, in the PDL area, I think its a great pity that Portugal has declined.  A missing child is of paramount importance and that is why SY have made these requests.

We don't really know why SY has made these requests.
I think Redwood, or some other officer admitted that there was no evidence to link the burglaries with the Madeleine case.
Clearly the judge was not satisfied.

I know its not relevant in Portugal, but here is a little piece about the law for the UK.

Magistrates have the power to issue search warrants under many Acts of Parliament — for example, to search for stolen goods under the Theft Act 1968, Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and for racially inflammatory material under the Public Order Act 1986. More importantly, they have a power under PACE to issue a warrant authorising the police to enter and search premises for evidence of a serious arrestable offence. Magistrates should only issue warrants under this section if there are reasonable grounds for believing that the police will not be able to obtain access to the evidence without a warrant, for example, if consent will not be forthcoming.

I think if this had happened in the UK these searches would have been done well before now and we would all know, one way or the other, but alas its not to be and so it drags on.

LJC wrote:

jassi wrote:

LJC wrote:

jinvta wrote:In the US the police must show probable cause and obtain a search warrant to search someone's private property. There must be some similar privacy laws in Portugal. I am sure that SY has done no such thing.

I've no doubt there are laws and I've no doubt SY follow the law.  It applies in the UK too.  But given there is intelligence that links this individual/s to trespassing/break-ins, in the PDL area, I think its a great pity that Portugal has declined.  A missing child is of paramount importance and that is why SY have made these requests.

We don't really know why SY has made these requests.
I think Redwood, or some other officer admitted that there was no evidence to link the burglaries with the Madeleine case.
Clearly the judge was not satisfied.

I know its not relevant in Portugal, but here is a little piece about the law for the UK.

Magistrates have the power to issue search warrants under many Acts of Parliament — for example, to search for stolen goods under the Theft Act 1968, Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and for racially inflammatory material under the Public Order Act 1986. More importantly, they have a power under PACE to issue a warrant authorising the police to enter and search premises for evidence of a serious arrestable offence. Magistrates should only issue warrants under this section if there are reasonable grounds for believing that the police will not be able to obtain access to the evidence without a warrant, for example, if consent will not be forthcoming.

I think if this had happened in the UK these searches would have been done well before now and we would all know, one way or the other, but alas its not to be and so it drags on.

As I said earlier, Portugal obviously requires a higher level of acceptable grounds than SY are used to

LJC, you forgot this part:

"Reasonable suspicion’ means that the person making the arrest must actually have suspicion and also that the suspicion is on reasonable grounds. If the arresting person is acting on instructions he or she must have enough information to believe there are reasonable grounds for suspicion. This will always be a question of fact in the particular circumstances. It could be, for instance, that knowledge that the arrested person had an opportunity to commit the offence is reasonable grounds for suspicion."

A hunch that burglars suddenly turned into child abductors is not a very reasonable suspicion, now is it? In fact, most would consider it to be extremely far-fetched.

Based on this basis of reasonable suspicion, the only people I would expect to be behind bars right now are the McCanns themselves.

Of course, these people may have been investigated at some stage by the Portugese in relation to other crimes. It could simply be that the police know all about these people/criminals, therefore are happy to discount them from this enquiry. That being the case, there is no suspicion reasonable or otherwise, except what suits SY to fit into their agenda, whatever it might be.

mossman wrote:Of course, these people may have been investigated at some stage by the Portugese in relation to other crimes.  It could simply be that the police know all about these people/criminals, therefore are happy to discount them from this enquiry. That being the case, there is no suspicion reasonable or otherwise, except what suits SY to fit into their agenda, whatever it might be.  

I agree.
I suspect that many of these people have already been crossed off the PJ's 'To Do' list.
SY may well be trying to eliminate them and clear the decks, but perhaps have been told:
"We've already done that."

almostgothic wrote:

mossman wrote:Of course, these people may have been investigated at some stage by the Portugese in relation to other crimes.  It could simply be that the police know all about these people/criminals, therefore are happy to discount them from this enquiry. That being the case, there is no suspicion reasonable or otherwise, except what suits SY to fit into their agenda, whatever it might be.  

I agree.
I suspect that many of these people have already been crossed off the PJ's 'To Do' list.
SY may well be trying to eliminate them and clear the decks, but perhaps have been told:
"We've already done that."

Exactly. It seems to suit the press to talk as if the PJ investigate nothing, all crime is left unsolved.

Martin Brunt was just on Sky talking about Danny from South Africa and his super DNA machine. A serious report about his work and how one of the areas was identified by his machine. I'm starting to think they are not allowed to report what is really happening so he's searching the files desperately for something to talk about. At least I hope so   

I'm glad that Redwood and his team have been told no, by the Portuguese Authorities. They've dissed the information in the files and tried to make fools of the PJ, who worked extremely hard, to bring the right people to justice.

The PJ were hindered every step of the way, not just by the McCanns, but by certain people within the Portuguese and British Governments.

Redwood and his team, are being backed every step of the way by the McCanns along with Cameron. Hopefully the ones within the Portuguese Government, who hindered the PJ and prevented them from bringing the right people to justice, have now all gone and the PJ have got the backing of the Portuguese Government.

The McCanns are no more interested in Madeleine, than they were back in 2007 and the same goes for Redwood and his team, along with Cameron. Not one of these people have offered empathy for the plight the McCanns put Madeleine in. The McCanns themselves, have only been interested in saving their own skins.

The only people who have expressed concern, for the plight Madeleine found herself in, are Goncalo Amaral and all her cyber Aunties and Uncles on internet forums.

Some may think I'm stating rubbish, but I'm not. Like many others, I've followed this case from day one, listened intently to the McCanns lying as well as watching Gerry McCann smirking, especially when Sandra Felguieras asked him questions about the dogs.

The PJ may well have made mistakes in the case, but in my opinion, they should be forgiven for any mistakes they made, given the fact they had the British Government, with help from the Portuguese Government, intervening at every opportunity.

Anyone who criticises the PJ, should turn their criticisms on Andy Redwood and his team. Ever since the review began, Redwood has been spouting off to the media, regarding the people who are of interest to him. The review turned into an investigation and Redwood is still spouting the same old rubbish. The only thing that changes in his rubbish, are the people he is interested in. The van load of cleaners seem to have disappeared, the dead paedophiles are no longer mentioned.

The only people Redwood has never changed his stance on, are the two people, who are 100% responsible for whatever happened to Madeleine. They are without a shadow of doubt, Kate and Gerry McCann.

Redwood and his team, are no better than the McCanns previous dodgy detectives, who were hired, after the case was shelved.

An excellent post kathybelle, I for one agree with everything you have stated. I will never understand why the Mccanns and their friends have never been questioned by NSY or anyone else, this case has stunk since day one and continues to stink higher and higher as time goes on.

add me to that Mara thon, I agree with kathybelle

The contents of this video, is one of the reasons why I despise the McCanns so much. How anyone who has followed the case, can have sympathy for them is beyond me. Watch what happens towards the end of the video, when the McCanns think the cameras have been turned off.

The McCanns put on an act during the interview, then they show their true colours, when the interview is finished.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7380419.stm

On Sky News now, Scotland Yard have arrived in Portugal.

tanszi wrote:add me to that Mara thon, I agree with kathybelle

And me

Karen wrote:On Sky News now, Scotland Yard  have arrived in Portugal.

Yes indeed, ITV have this story too.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-05-06/madeleine-mccann-permission-algarve-dig/

Madeleine Police Arrive In Portugal For Digs

Forensics officers will use ground penetrating radar equipment to aid the search at three Praia da Luz sites.

10:07pm UK, Wednesday 07 May 2014

Police searching for Madeleine McCann arrive at Faro airport
Police officers arrive in Portugal. Pic: EXCLUSIVEPIX
Portugal
The investigation is based from Faro

Scotland Yard detectives have arrived in Portugal to oversee the excavation of a number of sites as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The digs for evidence are to take place at several locations in the resort where the youngster vanished in 2007.

Forensics officers are due to use ground penetrating radar equipment to aid the search at three sites in Praia da Luz.

Madeleine disappeared from the apartment she was staying in with her parents and two siblings on May 3, 2007. She was three years old at the time.

Police searching for Madeleine McCann arrive at Faro airport
Officers from Scotland Yard arrive at Faro Airport. Pic: EXCLUSIVEPIX

Officers from the Metropolitan Police have also identified three potential suspects they want to talk to, not necessarily around Madeleine's disappearance, but who had been involved in break-ins in the area.

However, they have reportedly been refused permission by Portuguese authorities to search the homes of these burglary suspects, who used to work at the Ocean Complex at the time Madeleine vanished.

Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt, in Praia da Luz, said: "That's a blow for Scotland Yard."

He said disagreements over leaks to the media may delay British police in their efforts to scour areas they will be given access to.

"I'm not sure that those searches are going to begin quite so quickly," he said.

Police searching for Madeleine McCann arrive at Faro airport
They will oversee excavations at three sites. Pic: EXCLUSIVEPIX

"The Portuguese are making it very clear that they were not happy with journalists being briefed. It's not something that happens in this country and in fact, the Portuguese authorities, according to the Scotland Yard message last night, had threatened to stop any of the work once it begins if they hear that Scotland Yard are talking to reporters, or indeed if reporters are in any way disrupting the work.

"I get a sense that because of this developing row, that may put off what is going to happen soon, but maybe not in the next couple of days as we anticipated."

Kate McCann told Sky News last week, on the seventh anniversary of her daughter's disappearance, that she needed to know what happened - even if it was the "worst-case scenario".

"Madeleine's either alive or she isn't and we can't change that."