On Sky News this morning

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

Issalind wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I didn't expect them to take chloroform with them but they could have got it from a chemist with their prescription pads. This could be checked in a chemist's records.

I think it was Rachel who mentioned that a resus could have been performed had it been necessary. Why mention this ?

Chloroform is not available in the UK even on prescription. It is a very hazardous liquid which requires the user to wear protective clothing, safety goggles and use a respirator with an organic vapour cartridge.

Calpol Night contains a sedative and is more likely to have been given to the children. It will also leave a reddish brown stain on clothing.

But is chloroform available in hospitals for "qualified doctors" to use or even take on holiday with them???

Chloroform is not used as an anaesthetic in the UK and it hasn't been for a very long time. Modern anaesthetics are much safer for both patients and doctors.

In view of the kind of security that exists these days at all UK airports, I cannot see anyone getting away with transporting chloroform.

If the McCanns sedated their children, then I think we can safely assume it wasn't with chloroform.

I wasn't suggesting that chloroform was used to sedate the children but I did think that if they did have to perform a tracky etc then maybe they could have acquired some anaesthetic from a chemist locally. This could have happened Wednesday or Thursday. I don't think there was enough time for everything to happen on the Thursday night.

Issalind wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I didn't expect them to take chloroform with them but they could have got it from a chemist with their prescription pads. This could be checked in a chemist's records.

I think it was Rachel who mentioned that a resus could have been performed had it been necessary. Why mention this ?

Chloroform is not available in the UK even on prescription. It is a very hazardous liquid which requires the user to wear protective clothing, safety goggles and use a respirator with an organic vapour cartridge.

Calpol Night contains a sedative and is more likely to have been given to the children. It will also leave a reddish brown stain on clothing.

Explanation for the alleged tea stain on Madeleine"s pyjamas?

whatsupdoc wrote:I wasn't suggesting that chloroform was used to sedate the children but I did think that if they did have to perform a tracky etc then maybe they could have acquired some anaesthetic from a chemist locally. This could have happened Wednesday or Thursday. I don't think there was enough time for everything to happen on the Thursday night.

A tracheostomy would be done only in an emergency life saving situtation when an airway is blocked. There would have been no time to get any type of anaesthetic.

Ollybelle wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I wasn't suggesting that chloroform was used to sedate the children but I did think that if they did have to perform a tracky etc then maybe they could have acquired some anaesthetic from a chemist locally. This could have happened Wednesday or Thursday. I don't think there was enough time for everything to happen on the Thursday night.

A tracheostomy would be done only in an emergency life saving situtation when an airway is blocked. There would have been no time to get any type of anaesthetic.

I agree. And I would be very surprised if chloroform was available from any Portugese chemist. Anyone asking for it would likely get the following reaction

Issalind wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

Issalind wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I didn't expect them to take chloroform with them but they could have got it from a chemist with their prescription pads. This could be checked in a chemist's records.

I think it was Rachel who mentioned that a resus could have been performed had it been necessary. Why mention this ?

Chloroform is not available in the UK even on prescription. It is a very hazardous liquid which requires the user to wear protective clothing, safety goggles and use a respirator with an organic vapour cartridge.

Calpol Night contains a sedative and is more likely to have been given to the children. It will also leave a reddish brown stain on clothing.

But is chloroform available in hospitals for "qualified doctors" to use or even take on holiday with them???

Chloroform is not used as an anaesthetic in the UK and it hasn't been for a very long time. Modern anaesthetics are much safer for both patients and doctors.

In view of the kind of security that exists these days at all UK airports, I cannot see anyone getting away with transporting chloroform.

If the McCanns sedated their children, then I think we can safely assume it wasn't with chloroform.

What if it they got hold of it in Portugual, they wouldn't have needed to get it through security at the airport?

Wintabells wrote:

widowan wrote:....I looked up coloboma and didn't see that,

Well, you'd have to do more than look up coloboma. It's associated with something called 'CHARGE syndrome' and an amount of tedious digging around on the internet would be required to uncover the connection. I'm not suggesting Madeleine suffered from this syndrome, but there is certainly sometimes an assocation between coloboma and heart abnormalities - sometimes very serious. I have read posts from people who have direct experience of coloboma where there were fortunately no associated problems, but I think it very unlikely that doctors with a child with a coloboma would ignore it, especially a child born as a result of IVF (where there can be a higher chance of genetic problems because of the absence of natural selection... apologies if this sounds insensitive).

I did look up CHARGE syndrome of which a coloboma makes up the first letter, however, while heart defects are part of CHARGE and a coloboma is part of CHARG,E colobomas more commonlt appear without any of the other symptoms. CHARGE is more rare than a colobma. You can't have CHARGE without the coloboma but you can have a coloboma without CHARGE and the other bits, I forget what all there was additionally associated with it, the hearing loss, retardation etc. I think it's obvious Maddie did not have CHARGE but she certainly could have had a heart murmur although, while not providing her medical records, didn't her family doctor send a note stating that all were well and no one had anything wrong with them? (I thought that was cute).

But I take your point doctors are NOT going to see that thing in their child's eye and not go to the pediatrician about it and go to a specialist, they like their second opinions as we know and I am sure nothing but the best would be good enough for the first born. I think it is likely they would know these other symptoms can accompany a coloboma.

Ollybelle wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I wasn't suggesting that chloroform was used to sedate the children but I did think that if they did have to perform a tracky etc then maybe they could have acquired some anaesthetic from a chemist locally. This could have happened Wednesday or Thursday. I don't think there was enough time for everything to happen on the Thursday night.

A tracheostomy would be done only in an emergency life saving situtation when an airway is blocked. There would have been no time to get any type of anaesthetic.

Also a trach. is indicated in certain types of resuscitation but it'd be more likely you'd go to CPR. If they decided the child's airway was blocked or that was a possibility for why she stopped breathing the trach. would be performed without a sedative as you have minutes only before the brain dies. I think we can put the chloroform idea to bed, there is no evidence for it, a stain could be from anything including Madeleine's blood from a nose bleed or grabbing a glass of red wine off the coffee table, spitting out medicine etc - there is nothing to connect chloroform except the idea that it is one of the products of human decomposition. But the dogs don't alert to chloroform they alert to the cadaverine of which chloroform is a part. So the dogs alert and the stain on the pajamas while it might be connected is I would say highly unlikely to be from chloroform as the common reason. Why not blood? That is in fact what Keela alerts to.

Tracheotomy :Reasons for Procedure
A tracheotomy is used to create an open airway. It is done to restore normal breathing in the following situations:

•The airway is obstructed at or above the level of the larynx (voice box), due to:
◦Trauma to the neck area
◦Obstructing tumors in the upper airway
•Respiratory failure requiring long-term mechanical breathing assistance, as in these cases:
◦Spinal cord injury in the neck area
◦Severe lung infection or inflammation
•Injury to the respiratory tract due to breathing in smoke or steam or inhaling corrosive substances
•Birth defects of the trachea or larynx
•Foreign object blocking the trachea or larynx
•Severe sleep apnea

Connected to KM saying " we have let her down" maybe ?

I know I keep harping on about it but......the frozen embryos.


Why didn't Kate McCann use them instead off going to holland and going all through it again from the start?


First embryos didn't work.



Second lot died


Third try and she got pregnant.

Could their off been something wrong with the rest off the embryos or did Kate McCann have some sort off worries about using them after Madeleine was born.

kitti wrote:I know I keep harping on about it but......the frozen embryos.


Why didn't Kate McCann use them instead off going to holland and going all through it again from the start?


First embryos didn't work.



Second lot died


Third try and she got pregnant.

Could their off been something wrong with the rest off the embryos or did Kate McCann have some sort off worries about using them after Madeleine was born.

Interesting questions. Plus, while I was researching info on the position of the Catholic church and IVF, it transpired that as long as embryos aren't discarded, the Catholic church looks upon IVF more sympathetically. In other words, use the frozen ones. Mind you, I've heard from my friend, who went through the IVF process, that frozen embryos are less likely to be successful than non-frozen ones, so perhaps this had some bearing.

kitti

I think it is possible for what you say, but I think it more likely that maybe Kate thought that it would be easier to have the treatment in Holland. She would have had to return - possibly by herself to England and would have needed to go to the Hospital severals times for check ups which would mean a lot of traveling which would not be advisable during this type of procedure. I just think she naturally went for the best option and had it in Holland as they were living there at the time.