Madeleine is Dead - Kate and Gerry

Hi Kathybelle,

I am in agreement with all you say about the events occurring during that holiday and on the night in question and about the subsequent attempts on their parts to hide the truth of what happened and, yes you are right, they did go to great lengths to cover up, they told lies, and none of their stories added up. Everything you have said in your post I agree with.

I think you misunderstand my posts. I am in no way making excuses for what the McCanns have done. I do not attempt to justify their actions. I am trying to say that they have acted collectively for a reason. I think an accident occurred that holiday, very tragically, but it is the subsequent actions of reiterating that Madeleine is alive that I am trying to deal with in my post.

Many people say the McCanns are protected from people in high positions. However, I think their biggest protection came from their friends.

You are right in all you say and I agree with you entirely about the McCanns. But this thread is about whether they will ever admit that Madeleine is dead. I am giving my opinion on why I believe they will never admit that Madeleine is dead. It is because they know deep down what they have done and how they have acted. They know what bad parents they have been on that holiday. I am not making excuses. I am giving an explanation instead for why I believe they undertook these actions.

I do believe that, despite all of their lies, despite all of their botched stories and timelines, despite all that has gone on which is well documented, their jogging, etc, I do believe that at the end of the day and over time, it eats away inside of them. I do believe they all have a pact to protect the other babies and children and a pact to protect the other family members from even worse grief.

This thread is not about what they did in the run up to Madeleine's disappearance, it is about what has happened since and why, and why do they continue to say she is still alive?

Why do they give Kate's own mother false hope? Her father is a frail looking man, why do they say his granddaughter is still alive and that they will one day find her?

Desperate times call for desperate measures and they had very desperate times that night of Thursday 3rd May. A decision had to be made. They all knew they were all in deep trouble and they had to do something to protect one and all. Kate and Gerry would be besides themselves about their futures and what would happen to the twins.

The Payne's would be besides themselves also. Yes, Kate did leave the children but I believe she was persuaded to to so initially and I do think deep down she was uncomfortable. She knew it was wrong but, just like teenagers in a gang, she chose to go along with the gang. Peer pressure got the better of her. So, she did do it and I do believe she cannot live with herself now. I believe she has convinced herself that Madeliene is still alive to save herself. Of course it is a lie, but in her imagination this is all a bad dream and Madeleine is really alive. If she does not believe it she will fall apart and then the consequences for her family will be grave indeed. Gerry feels the same also. All of their lies, all of their actions, all of their distortions of the truth, they see this, I believe, as something that good will come from. If they succeed, and lets face it many people are convinced by them, then the twins are safe in their care and Kate's parents may live longer lives because they believe their granddaughter is alive.

I think it really is wicked what they have done and continue to do, but as I have already said, sometimes people do things for the 'greater good' and they deep down believe they have done the right thing in saving the rest of their family. They have lost one daughter already through stupidity, they will fight and fight to save the twins and they will fight and fight to save their other extended family members from further grief. They feel it is the least they can do. So many wrongs do not make a right, we all know that, but I beleive they see this as the right thing to do. They have a quest now, they believe their own lies and now their quest is to convince everybody else. I do feel Kate especially will be destroyed if she suddenly does not believe her own lie and if she accepts that Madeleine is really dead.

LJC wrote:Hi Kathybelle,

I am in agreement with all you say about the events occurring during that holiday and on the night in question and about the subsequent attempts on their parts to hide the truth of what happened and, yes you are right, they did go to great lengths to cover up, they told lies, and none of their stories added up. Everything you have said in your post I agree with.

I think you misunderstand my posts. I am in no way making excuses for what the McCanns have done. I do not attempt to justify their actions. I am trying to say that they have acted collectively for a reason. I think an accident occurred that holiday, very tragically, but it is the subsequent actions of reiterating that Madeleine is alive that I am trying to deal with in my post.

Many people say the McCanns are protected from people in high positions. However, I think their biggest protection came from their friends.

You are right in all you say and I agree with you entirely about the McCanns. But this thread is about whether they will ever admit that Madeleine is dead. I am giving my opinion on why I believe they will never admit that Madeleine is dead. It is because they know deep down what they have done and how they have acted. They know what bad parents they have been on that holiday. I am not making excuses. I am giving an explanation instead for why I believe they undertook these actions.

I do believe that, despite all of their lies, despite all of their botched stories and timelines, despite all that has gone on which is well documented, their jogging, etc, I do believe that at the end of the day and over time, it eats away inside of them. I do believe they all have a pact to protect the other babies and children and a pact to protect the other family members from even worse grief.

This thread is not about what they did in the run up to Madeleine's disappearance, it is about what has happened since and why, and why do they continue to say she is still alive?

Why do they give Kate's own mother false hope? Her father is a frail looking man, why do they say his granddaughter is still alive and that they will one day find her?

Desperate times call for desperate measures and they had very desperate times that night of Thursday 3rd May. A decision had to be made. They all knew they were all in deep trouble and they had to do something to protect one and all. Kate and Gerry would be besides themselves about their futures and what would happen to the twins.

The Payne's would be besides themselves also. Yes, Kate did leave the children but I believe she was persuaded to to so initially and I do think deep down she was uncomfortable. She knew it was wrong but, just like teenagers in a gang, she chose to go along with the gang. Peer pressure got the better of her. So, she did do it and I do believe she cannot live with herself now. I believe she has convinced herself that Madeliene is still alive to save herself. Of course it is a lie, but in her imagination this is all a bad dream and Madeleine is really alive. If she does not believe it she will fall apart and then the consequences for her family will be grave indeed. Gerry feels the same also. All of their lies, all of their actions, all of their distortions of the truth, they see this, I believe, as something that good will come from. If they succeed, and lets face it many people are convinced by them, then the twins are safe in their care and Kate's parents may live longer lives because they believe their granddaughter is alive.

I think it really is wicked what they have done and continue to do, but as I have already said, sometimes people do things for the 'greater good' and they deep down believe they have done the right thing in saving the rest of their family. They have lost one daughter already through stupidity, they will fight and fight to save the twins and they will fight and fight to save their other extended family members from further grief. They feel it is the least they can do. So many wrongs do not make a right, we all know that, but I beleive they see this as the right thing to do. They have a quest now, they believe their own lies and now their quest is to convince everybody else. I do feel Kate especially will be destroyed if she suddenly does not believe her own lie and if she accepts that Madeleine is really dead.

Hi LJC, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post. I honestly think the McCanns are as hard as nails and are hiding a guilty secret. They remind me of Harold Shipman. Shipman's surgery, wasn't too far from my home and when the investigations into the patients deaths were going on, I remember him standing outside the rear of the surgery saying he knew nothing about those deaths in a calm way. He not only killed those patients, he forged at least one will and stole jewellery from the dead patients.

I don't believe Kate McCann was persuaded to leave her children alone, as I said in my previous post, the McCanns are both doctors, at some point in their careers, they will have come across children who have been taken ill, injured or even killed, when they have been left unsupervised. The McCanns were not a couple of teenagers, who were easily influenced by their mates, they were approaching middle age. I can only speak for myself, when I say that each time I was pregnant, I had a built in feeling that made me want to protect my child and once the baby was born, that feeling never went away and it never will. I have heard other parents say the same thing.

I was only in my 20's when my children were the ages of the McCanns children. If any of my friends had said to me, "come to the pub or the restaurant, as long as your children are in bed they will be fine." I would have told them to "take a hike."

I agree that the McCanns friends protected them, but so did some members of the Labour Government and influencial people such as Richard Branson. There has got to be a reason why, especially as the McCanns along with their friends, broke the Portuguese law, each time they went out and left their children unsupervised.

Goncalo Amaral once said they made a mistake when they didn't arrest the McCanns, the minute they knew they had gone out and left their children unsupervised.

Thank you all for your views on this. LJC/kathybelles I think your specific discussions have drawn out some interesting points. Of course there is less pressure within the Tapas crew as they do not have to live daily with living a lie but that is not to say thay moral pressure is building up inside them - if anyone in the world has any morals that is. Yes they may be still proecting their own reputations - but in fact by coming clean now - they would themselves enhance their reputations and become celebs overnight selling their story over and over.

To the same token I wonder if the government are caught in the same way?? To give up now and let the truth surface might show their early interventions much to the embarassment of many a civil servant as well as a few prominent politicians.

Its almost like a fly trap, once you have become involved with the Mc's you fall into the pit with no option but to keep shouting innocence. I think announcing Madeleine is dead at some point will get them all out this cess pit so it might not just favour Kate & Gerry but would get a lot of people off the hook and lots of nutters off some people's backs.

Now who else has fallen into the cess pit???? Shall we start a list?

LJC and Kathybelle, I rather hope that LJC has stated the facts as seems from the point of view of the McCanns. I agree that this is the most likely story for them to stick to, the information the twins are going to get as they grown up will be confusing for them. Better then to have a story ready.
None of it is true in any case, but that's never bothered the main players.