There's a rumour going round Kate's in the NY Honours list

Poor old Fiona Phillips must be wondering why she too hasn't been given an award for her services to investigative journalism. Here's an example of her efforts.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/columnists/phillips/2011/05/14/we-should-have-nothing-but-admiration-for-the-mccanns-115875-23128845/

Just the title of this piece of garbage is having me spit feathers!

almostgothic wrote:And viva la British Spring also!
'Tis about time we freed ourselves from the dreary, grey-suited shackles of the two-party state.
Or perhaps we should now call it the two-and-a-bit party state.

I don't have a gun, but I do have a rolling pin.
And I'm not afraid to use it.

Good thinking! I shall make good use of my Le Creuset pans if need be! Woman with cast iron saucepan! Stand clear!

kitti wrote:I don't believe for a minute that KM gave up her job.....I think she had no choice and the Medical board have to think off patients...who would want to go see a DR who is a suspect in Their own child's disappearance and even after she became a non arquido.....the practice would off lost a lot off patients due to them NOT wanting to sit opposite a child neglector....I wouldn't...off course their are people who would just go to watch her every move And how she behaves

Not sure what to make of what you say here but why would this all only apply to Kate McCann? Gerry is working as normal seeing patients and getting on with being a senior doctor. No problems have been reported anywhere about him working with patients in the last couple of years. Can you explain why only Kate would be singled out for this?

Iris wrote:

kitti wrote:I half expected to see it on the news this morning after finding out a 24 yr old ex gang leader who has dedicated his life....all 24 years off it, getting an honour ....what next......Karen Matthew getting an MBE for services rendered to child care ...or the late Harold shipman getting an OBE for dedicating his life to medicine...



Cameron has most certainly gone down in my books....

Well, this will make it plummet to zero Kitti. Lorraine Kelly got a CBE.

OBE

marxman wrote:But what better way to influence the outcome of
the ongoing review?
I suspect its bollox, but didn't Gerry get some kind
of award at a bobby ball?
However, maybe its just a wind-up? hope so!!

Yes Gerrry did get some sort of award , something to do with the Police Federation Awards .... which was Hosted by NOTW ...lmao

platinum wrote:

kitti wrote:I don't believe for a minute that KM gave up her job.....I think she had no choice and the Medical board have to think off patients...who would want to go see a DR who is a suspect in Their own child's disappearance and even after she became a non arquido.....the practice would off lost a lot off patients due to them NOT wanting to sit opposite a child neglector....I wouldn't...off course their are people who would just go to watch her every move And how she behaves

Not sure what to make of what you say here but why would this all only apply to Kate McCann? Gerry is working as normal seeing patients and getting on with being a senior doctor. No problems have been reported anywhere about him working with patients in the last couple of years. Can you explain why only Kate would be singled out for this?

I think Kate was the main suspect in Madeleine's disappearance. Her sister-in-law Philomena McCann, said that the PJ tried to extract a confession out of her, by offering her a deal. Also the day after the McCanns arrived home from PDL, they were visited by someone from Social Services and a police officer. After they had left, Gerry made a statement, saying his wife would not be returning to work as a doctor, her job would now be looking after the twins.

When Gerry returned to work, his boss issued a statement, saying Gerry would not be working in close contact with patients, he would now be working in the research department of the hospital. I don't know if Gerry is still working in that research department of the hospital.

In my opinion, both of the McCanns should never be allowed to work in medicine again. They grossly neglected their 3 children in Praia da Luz, with no thought of the danger their children were in, while they were out. If they have no feelings towards the danger they left their children in, they're hardly going to care about their patients. In my opinion Kate McCann is worse than her husband, she is a mother and she should have had a built in mechanism to want to protect her children.

kathybelle wrote:

platinum wrote:

kitti wrote:I don't believe for a minute that KM gave up her job.....I think she had no choice and the Medical board have to think off patients...who would want to go see a DR who is a suspect in Their own child's disappearance and even after she became a non arquido.....the practice would off lost a lot off patients due to them NOT wanting to sit opposite a child neglector....I wouldn't...off course their are people who would just go to watch her every move And how she behaves

Not sure what to make of what you say here but why would this all only apply to Kate McCann? Gerry is working as normal seeing patients and getting on with being a senior doctor. No problems have been reported anywhere about him working with patients in the last couple of years. Can you explain why only Kate would be singled out for this?

I think Kate was the main suspect in Madeleine's disappearance. Her sister-in-law Philomena McCann, said that the PJ tried to extract a confession out of her, by offering her a deal. Also the day after the McCanns arrived home from PDL, they were visited by someone from Social Services and a police officer. After they had left, Gerry made a statement, saying his wife would not be returning to work as a doctor, her job would now be looking after the twins.

When Gerry returned to work, his boss issued a statement, saying Gerry would not be working in close contact with patients, he would now be working in the research department of the hospital. I don't know if Gerry is still working in that research department of the hospital.

In my opinion, both of the McCanns should never be allowed to work in medicine again. They grossly neglected their 3 children in Praia da Luz, with no thought of the danger their children were in, while they were out. If they have no feelings towards the danger they left their children in, they're hardly going to care about their patients. In my opinion Kate McCann is worse than her husband, she is a mother and she should have had a built in mechanism to want to protect her children.

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

There are many shades and degrees of sin.

Most people are content for the Courts to measure them.

The End Is Nigh wrote:There are many shades and degrees of sin.

Most people are content for the Courts to measure them.

And that is why I would never proclaim someone guilty of anything until the courts had judged them. Many prefer to make their minds up long before that though and throw the stones before sentencing. Not a very pretty sight seeing that happen. In this case it is happening and nobody has even been charged. Thats even uglier in my view.

When the courts have judged the issues is the proper time for punishment not before.

platinum wrote:

kathybelle wrote:

platinum wrote:

kitti wrote:I don't believe for a minute that KM gave up her job.....I think she had no choice and the Medical board have to think off patients...who would want to go see a DR who is a suspect in Their own child's disappearance and even after she became a non arquido.....the practice would off lost a lot off patients due to them NOT wanting to sit opposite a child neglector....I wouldn't...off course their are people who would just go to watch her every move And how she behaves

Not sure what to make of what you say here but why would this all only apply to Kate McCann? Gerry is working as normal seeing patients and getting on with being a senior doctor. No problems have been reported anywhere about him working with patients in the last couple of years. Can you explain why only Kate would be singled out for this?

I think Kate was the main suspect in Madeleine's disappearance. Her sister-in-law Philomena McCann, said that the PJ tried to extract a confession out of her, by offering her a deal. Also the day after the McCanns arrived home from PDL, they were visited by someone from Social Services and a police officer. After they had left, Gerry made a statement, saying his wife would not be returning to work as a doctor, her job would now be looking after the twins.

When Gerry returned to work, his boss issued a statement, saying Gerry would not be working in close contact with patients, he would now be working in the research department of the hospital. I don't know if Gerry is still working in that research department of the hospital.

In my opinion, both of the McCanns should never be allowed to work in medicine again. They grossly neglected their 3 children in Praia da Luz, with no thought of the danger their children were in, while they were out. If they have no feelings towards the danger they left their children in, they're hardly going to care about their patients. In my opinion Kate McCann is worse than her husband, she is a mother and she should have had a built in mechanism to want to protect her children.

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I can honestly say I have made many mistakes in my life, but I have never ever played with my children's lives. Forgive me for saying this but your quote about "he that is without sin" is something that is quoted by the McCanns supporters. While you are entitled to be a McCann supporter, I am entitled to express my views about the McCanns gross neglect of their children.

If the McCanns were speaking the truth, when they said they left their 3 children unsupervised in their unlocked unlit apartment, they committed a crime each time they were left and their crime warranted a jail sentence. If the McCanns were speaking the truth when they said Madeleine was abducted, their crime was made more serious because Madeleine disappeared while they were out. That crime warranted a longer jail sentence than they would have got for neglect alone.

I have to accept that some people have different standards when it comes to raising their children and keeping them safe. I don't know what your standards of child care are, always assuming you have children. The fact of the matter is, you have made a sarcastic remark to my post, so I can only presume that you don't like my criticism of the McCanns standard of child care.

If I have read your post wrong, I apologise.

platinum wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:There are many shades and degrees of sin.

Most people are content for the Courts to measure them.

And that is why I would never proclaim someone guilty of anything until the courts had judged them. Many prefer to make their minds up long before that though and throw the stones before sentencing. Not a very pretty sight seeing that happen. In this case it is happening and nobody has even been charged. Thats even uglier in my view.

When the courts have judged the issues is the proper time for punishment not before.

The McCanns don't need a court of law to presume their guilt. If they were speaking the truth, when the said they left their children unsupervised, then left them alone after Madeleine told them what they did, they are unconvicted law breakers.

Goncalo Amaral and a former senior member of the PJ, both said that the British Government intervened when the PJ wanted to prosecute the McCanns. Hopefully Snr Amaral will be able to repeat that statement in the forthcoming libel case and this will be the beginning of the end of the McCanns days of freedom.

kathybelle wrote:

platinum wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:There are many shades and degrees of sin.

Most people are content for the Courts to measure them.

And that is why I would never proclaim someone guilty of anything until the courts had judged them. Many prefer to make their minds up long before that though and throw the stones before sentencing. Not a very pretty sight seeing that happen. In this case it is happening and nobody has even been charged. Thats even uglier in my view.

When the courts have judged the issues is the proper time for punishment not before.

The McCanns don't need a court of law to presume their guilt. If they were speaking the truth, when the said they left their children unsupervised, then left them alone after Madeleine told them what they did, they are unconvicted law breakers.

Goncalo Amaral and a former senior member of the PJ, both said that the British Government intervened when the PJ wanted to prosecute the McCanns. Hopefully Snr Amaral will be able to repeat that statement in the forthcoming libel case and this will be the beginning of the end of the McCanns days of freedom.

Odd that the Portuguese stated that there was no evidence of them committing any crime. Odd that the Portuguese never bothered to charge them. Even odder if the PJ or the authorities simply said OK let them off as our law doesn't matter because the British Government is in charge here as that is what you seem to be implying.

Do you think that the Portuguese people are really that daft?

I don't. I think that they would be up in arms if they thought that the PT authorities were bowing down to the UK.

By the way your presumption that I am a McCann supporter is just typical. And its not your job or anybody here's job to decide if they have committed a crime. Thats up to the police and the courts. You don't have all the evidence. You can have an opinion of course but its no more a fact than anybody elses.

It is really bizarre to see people with no real experience proclaiming people to be criminals when they havent even been charged and when the authorities are clear that there is no evidence of any crime by them. No evidence of any crime at all and that includes neglect if you hadn't noticed.

platinum wrote:

kathybelle wrote:

platinum wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:There are many shades and degrees of sin.

Most people are content for the Courts to measure them.

And that is why I would never proclaim someone guilty of anything until the courts had judged them. Many prefer to make their minds up long before that though and throw the stones before sentencing. Not a very pretty sight seeing that happen. In this case it is happening and nobody has even been charged. Thats even uglier in my view.

When the courts have judged the issues is the proper time for punishment not before.

The McCanns don't need a court of law to presume their guilt. If they were speaking the truth, when the said they left their children unsupervised, then left them alone after Madeleine told them what they did, they are unconvicted law breakers.

Goncalo Amaral and a former senior member of the PJ, both said that the British Government intervened when the PJ wanted to prosecute the McCanns. Hopefully Snr Amaral will be able to repeat that statement in the forthcoming libel case and this will be the beginning of the end of the McCanns days of freedom.

Odd that the Portuguese stated that there was no evidence of them committing any crime. Odd that the Portuguese never bothered to charge them. Even odder if the PJ or the authorities simply said OK let them off as our law doesn't matter because the British Government is in charge here as that is what you seem to be implying.

Do you think that the Portuguese people are really that daft?

I don't. I think that they would be up in arms if they thought that the PT authorities were bowing down to the UK.

By the way your presumption that I am a McCann supporter is just typical. And its not your job or anybody here's job to decide if they have committed a crime. Thats up to the police and the courts. You don't have all the evidence. You can have an opinion of course but its no more a fact than anybody elses.

It is really bizarre to see people with no real experience proclaiming people to be criminals when they havent even been charged and when the authorities are clear that there is no evidence of any crime by them. No evidence of any crime at all and that includes neglect if you hadn't noticed.

Odd that the Portuguese stated that there was no evidence of them committing any crime.

Didn't the final report say that there wasn't sufficient evidence to charge anyone?

platinum wrote:

kathybelle wrote:

platinum wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:There are many shades and degrees of sin.

Most people are content for the Courts to measure them.

And that is why I would never proclaim someone guilty of anything until the courts had judged them. Many prefer to make their minds up long before that though and throw the stones before sentencing. Not a very pretty sight seeing that happen. In this case it is happening and nobody has even been charged. Thats even uglier in my view.

When the courts have judged the issues is the proper time for punishment not before.

The McCanns don't need a court of law to presume their guilt. If they were speaking the truth, when the said they left their children unsupervised, then left them alone after Madeleine told them what they did, they are unconvicted law breakers.

Goncalo Amaral and a former senior member of the PJ, both said that the British Government intervened when the PJ wanted to prosecute the McCanns. Hopefully Snr Amaral will be able to repeat that statement in the forthcoming libel case and this will be the beginning of the end of the McCanns days of freedom.

Odd that the Portuguese stated that there was no evidence of them committing any crime. Odd that the Portuguese never bothered to charge them. Even odder if the PJ or the authorities simply said OK let them off as our law doesn't matter because the British Government is in charge here as that is what you seem to be implying.

Do you think that the Portuguese people are really that daft?

I don't. I think that they would be up in arms if they thought that the PT authorities were bowing down to the UK.

If you had followed this case you would know that what I am posting is fact not fiction. If you want to know the facts, all you need to do is take a look at the files on the www.mccannfiles.com website. Or you can visit the Joana Morais forum and look at the archive pages, where you will find the media interview that Goncalo Amaral gave on the steps of the Lisbon Court, when the McCanns were in the process of banning his book, that the British Government intervened in the case. Sky News gave a live commentary on the case which I saw on the Sky News website. The presenter said that a former senior member of the Portuguse police, took the stand and said that the British Government intervened with the case.

Whether you like it or not, the McCanns are unconvicted criminals, they know they are and so do those of us who want justice for Madeleine. Even the McCanns supporters know that the McCanns are unconvicted criminals, but rather than say they are, they would rather keep having a pop at those of us who want justice for Madeleine. Plus the McCanns and anyone else who was involved in Madeleine's disappearance, brought to justice.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if anyone wants to take a pop at me, I don't mind. As long as the person who is taking the pop at me, doesn't mind if I return the "complement." In a polite way of course.

"No evidence of any crime" = "Insufficent ............"

Presumably that sweeping statement also includes the crime of Abduction?

Isn't there a saying along the lines of "you can't defend the indefensible"? The McCanns have openly admitted from day one that they left all their children home alone and whether it is true or not, they have stood up and said it and it's something which ought to have a jail sentence attached to it. That isn't casting the first stone, or anything similar. They've managed that all by themselves.

Odd that the Portuguese stated that there was no evidence of them
committing any crime. Odd that the Portuguese never bothered to charge
them. Even odder if the PJ or the authorities simply said OK let them
off as our law doesn't matter because the British Government is in
charge here as that is what you seem to be implying. "

Platinum , in the Final report the PJ state categorically that Madeleine could have died in 5a , that she was abducted so they havn"t ruled anything out which is why the case is shelved, not closed.

The Mccanns did themselves no favours by not attending a recon, any other Mother would have done anything if it had helped the Police. Also, fhey
have been too quick to sue anyone whose opinion differs from theirs . They also complained the PJ had done little yet every sighting was followed up all possible witnesses interviewed they spent millions of Euros on this investigation , not even on a Portugese citizen yet the Mccanns have continually
said they didn"t due enough. They ought to be very thankful that they didn"t get the same treatment as Ben Needham"s Mother and stop their whining.

dazedandconfused wrote:Isn't there a saying along the lines of "you can't defend the indefensible"? The McCanns have openly admitted from day one that they left all their children home alone and whether it is true or not, they have stood up and said it and it's something which ought to have a jail sentence attached to it. That isn't casting the first stone, or anything similar. They've managed that all by themselves.

Very well said, Dazedandconfused. I think the Portuguese Government insulted their own people, when they allowed the British Government to intervene in this case which then allowed the McCanns to walk away from their crimes without ever facing prosecution. For the Portuguese Prosecutor to say there was not enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns when what the McCanns admitted to was a crime, was another insult to the Portuguese people. Especially the ones who have been prosecuted for neglecting their children, in a far lesser way than the McCanns.

At least one person was convicted of neglect, because he left his child outside a shop in a pram, while he nipped and bought something. He was quite rightly prosecuted, because he broke the law, when he left his child unsupervised outside that shop, but the McCanns also broke the law and that guy must be really miffed to think that they can do something far more serious than he did and walk away from prosecution.

The McCanns have since repaid the Portuguese Government's "kindness" by slagging of their judicial system. Kate also insulted the Portuguese police and the locals, as well as the staff of Warner and the holidaymakers, when she said in her book, that she and her husband were the only ones out looking for Madeleine. The police had their leave and rest days cancelled, so they could search for Madeleine. The locals stayed off work for more than a week, to look for Madeleine. The holidaymakers gave up their holidays, so they could also look for Madeleine and the staff of Warner's didn't go to bed that evening, because they too were looking for Madeleine.

I honestly don't know how people can defend the McCanns and make excuses for their behaviour. I think these people are not child friendly people, they insult Madeleine and her brother and sister when they make excuses for their parents.

The End Is Nigh wrote:"No evidence of any crime" = "Insufficent ............"

Presumably that sweeping statement also includes the crime of Abduction?

yes, and "insufficient" is not the same as none.

And if i wanted to listen to a sermon on the Bible, I would go to Church.

Besides, Kate has us all pegged as "trolls" and "nutters" so who is casting stones now?

Very true.

As with all cases that have not reached a clear end, there is, by definition, room for many points of view in attempting to define the likeliest sequence of events. Like any investigative process, whether Authoritative or merely the ramblings of a concerned and democratic populace, until all the facts are known, opinion, supposition and speculation based upon what we do know (or think we know) and what we don't know (or think we don't know) are tools to attempt to rule in (or rule out) various factors, to ascertain the possibilities, probabilities and likelihoods (bearing in mind the specific case and also past history).

At least here we present and consider a wide spectrum of hypotheses, unlike the McCanns who do no more than repeat the same tired old rebuttals which rarely (if ever) seem to hold water.

More to the point, is the great meddler Gordon Brown in the honours list?
Because a lucrative contract was to be signed with a British firm in 2007 - and GB knew that Socrates had taken a hefty bung from the transaction. It was something like that that persuaded Socrates to bend the law of Portugal.

The member for Kirkcaldy is not seen in the Commons, consequently his constituents must be thriving! I think re the McCann/Brown angle, the silence is deafening. I always keep in mind that despite his sterling efforts on their behalf, GB never met them personally, nor was photographed with them.
Or am I wrong here?
Don't forget, we have Kate herself to tell us that Gerry left a message for GB to ring him, which GB did. Gerry calls, GB jumps. Not once, but many times. Visited the FSS who then suffered severe memory loss and Leicester Police Station who were so rocked by the great leader that they forgot to send the Gaspar statement to the PJ.

Well at least the rumours have proved unfounded!

I dunno about GB. I don't think he knew quite what he was getting into other than a chance to look good by jumping on the bandwagon of the most famous news story in the world. I think he probably quite liked the idea of helping a fellow Scot and looking like a pro-active good guy. People thought of him as rather dour still and he was cementing his human family man side. I don't see anything sinister really, he was just a bit crass and dim...I think he just assumed they were a nice, terribly wronged couple and had delusions of heroism. Bad move.

I have to agree.

I think there is an understandable tendency for us, the common herd, to imagine "conspiracy" as one answer to unsolved issues.

But the chances are that there is no conspiracy at all, involving any individual(s) or any authority(ies).

Just a sequence of events that were not fully understood from the start and that certain protagonists have seized upon and subsequently played the rest of us like fishes on a line.

But, fortunately, not all of the rest of us.

platinum wrote:
Odd that the Portuguese stated that there was no evidence of them committing any crime. Odd that the Portuguese never bothered to charge them. Even odder if the PJ or the authorities simply said OK let them off as our law doesn't matter because the British Government is in charge here as that is what you seem to be implying.

Do you think that the Portuguese people are really that daft?

I don't. I think that they would be up in arms if they thought that the PT authorities were bowing down to the UK.

It is really bizarre to see people with no real experience proclaiming people to be criminals when they havent even been charged and when the authorities are clear that there is no evidence of any crime by them. No evidence of any crime at all and that includes neglect if you hadn't noticed.

'No Evidence' does not equal innocent.
However they never said 'no evidence', as someone previously stated they said 'insufficient'.

The DNA found from the fluids in the boot scenic matched Maddie's DNA to 15 markers. The standard of proof in Portugal is 19 markers, therefore it was considered 'insufficient'. However, in the USA the standard of proof is 13 markers so if this was an american case, they would have said that the fluids in the boot were Maddies. Each and every year forensic procedures improve and we all know that the EU likes to standardise law europe wide. I know this will happen as the USA leads the way in forensic science! Even if this case happened in the UK they could have categorically said that the dna matched maddies. Scotland Yard might even say this if they are looking at it from their perspective of UK law! However, at some point Europe will get standardised to match the USA and at that point someone will do a cold case review and the Mccann's will be in court. Time is on our side. Justice will be done I am sure of that.

It is the anniversary of me reading about that. This thread --> entitled 'more about DNA from an expert' https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t12417-more-about-dna-from-an-expert will help you understand this better also. Happy new year!