Please don't give up!!

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was the Payne family with the McCanns on the airport bus so it must be David Payne who took the footage as both his wife and mother-in-law appear in it. He's the one saying "Cheer up Gerry" too.

P.S. Link to the footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVyamKT7C-8

Was it David Payne, who filmed Madeleine stumbling on the aircraft steps, as she and her little pal climbed them? If it wasn't Payne, it must have been someone close to the McCanns because why would anyone else film Madeleine climbing the steps?

In my opinion, Payne did the McCanns no favours, when he put the video of Gerry making a foul mouthed rant, on "You Tube" Given what happened to Madeleine and the McCanns behaviour before and since she disappeared, the video made me think that Gerry was going over to the Algarve, for reasons other than a holiday. I'm not saying this is what happened I'm only saying what the video made me think.

The video of Madeleine stumbling on the aircraft steps upset me. It brought it home to me that Madeleine was climbing the steps to a holiday she would never be coming home from.

By the way, thank you for the link.

kathybelle wrote:The McCanns may not have access to this forum ..........

Not sure why they wouldn't be able to read most of what is here?

I thought it was virtually open in read-only mode, even without joining?


ETA Yes, I've just checked and the main body of the Forum is open.

Kathybelle,
How very, very sad. It brought tears to my eyes, thinking of it like that, a little girl going on a holiday from which she would not return.

If anything will keep me here it is that. A foul crime has been committed, and an injustice has ensued. Of that there is absolutely no doubt, and I think we are here for the duration. Justice will be pursued and be seen to be done.

Bless little Madeleine, her short little life. xxxxx

Kathybelle, I think it's safe to assume that it was David Payne who also took the footage climbing the stairs - the voice that can be heard is the same as on the bus. The other child is his elder daughter who was then a little younger than Madeleine.

Who can say what the motivation was for releasing it without deleting Gerry's comment.

maebee wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:I will never give up, even when I stop posting for a while I still look in regular, its all the blatant lies from G&K and Mitchell that keep me focused, and also justice for little Madeleine McCann age 3.

Great post Lilly. I'm another one who will never give up. There is absolutely no doubt that the McCanns have lied about the events surrounding their daughter's disappearance. They have refused to return to Portugal for a re-construction. Enough said. Justice for Madeleine may take many many years but there are plenty of people here, and elsewhere, who will do everything in their power to see that justice is done for this little girl.

Maebee, nice to see your post and thank you, you are spot on, there are plenty of people that are on too the McCanns and the longer it goes on there is more and more people getting involved,(its amasing how many original supporters of the McCanns I speak too 4+ years on, say that they relise now through all the Media interviews, Mitchell and the Book, that the McCanns are guilty and kno what happened to Maddy) justice will come but as you say it could be years away, I pray it isn't though

I can't give up and don't post that often, but read everyday and pray for justice. OH asked me today what would I do if Maddie was found alive. Truly I would be over the moon, but after reading so much and watching the parents I just don't think that's ever going to happen.

(Being a saddo just see how the pact between the Desperate Housewives is tearing them apart with their terrible secret! Which reminds me to watch last night's episode. And in Law & Order UK new evidence came forward in Friday's episode to bring the real criminal to justice. See, I do have a life away from the net!)

Hiya Jay, i would also be over the moon if Madeleine was found alive, yet i consider there are a few considerations which point to that not happening. jimo

Thanks for all the up-beat comments!! Good to know that even when the Forum is quiet there are still people looking in and keeping up to date. Hopefully things will come to a conclusion in the next (almost) five years!!! Where will we all be then?!!

tigger wrote:Never, ever, never, will I give up. This walking insult to children, to what they seem to regard as lesser beings, the lies published as gospel.

But remember, most criminal acts bear the seeds of their own destruction. It will come out.
I'm very fond of Margery Allingham's work, in 'Hide my eyes' it deals with a serial killer who has more or less been 'adopted' by and elderly childless woman. When she finds out what he has done, she tells him : " Gerry, murder will out!". Here's a plot summary.
HIDE MY EYES
Chatto & Windus, September 1958
A quiet, ruthless killer strikes in London's theatreland. Superintendent Luke thinks he has seen the pattern before. Mr Campion wonders what became of the old couple in the country bus who must have witnessed the crime . . . The trail leads to an eccentric museum in west London, and to a scrapyard in the East End. As an exercise in suspense Hide My Eyes is the equal of The Tiger in the Smoke. As a study of human imperfection it may be superior to the earlier novel. Self-deception is a character flaw in the murderer no less than in the old woman who loves him and hides her eyes from the appalling truth.

This book sounds interesting. I wonder if it's still available?. I've never heard of Margery Allingham, and I love thrillers. Yesterday I watched 'Compulsion', the Orson Wells film from the 50s, which is based on the real life case of two American boys who think normal moral standards don't apply to them, due to their 'superior intelligence'. They kidnapped and murdered a young boy. However clever they were, their guilt came to light due to a very simple mistake.

I think (and hope) that those who are still posting on this case after years of disinformation and spin won't give up now.

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was the Payne family with the McCanns on the airport bus so it must be David Payne who took the footage as both his wife and mother-in-law appear in it. He's the one saying "Cheer up Gerry" too.

P.S. Link to the footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVyamKT7C-8

Thanks for posting this link . It's the first time, in the very many times it's been mentioned over the years, that I've been able to see a link that had sound that wasn't interrupted. How did you manage that?

And the duty free in ma in laws bag.....I'm sure in the original it stated it was duty free....and that's on the way out!

jejune wrote:

tigger wrote:Never, ever, never, will I give up. This walking insult to children, to what they seem to regard as lesser beings, the lies published as gospel.

But remember, most criminal acts bear the seeds of their own destruction. It will come out.
I'm very fond of Margery Allingham's work, in 'Hide my eyes' it deals with a serial killer who has more or less been 'adopted' by and elderly childless woman. When she finds out what he has done, she tells him : " Gerry, murder will out!". Here's a plot summary.
HIDE MY EYES
Chatto & Windus, September 1958
A quiet, ruthless killer strikes in London's theatreland. Superintendent Luke thinks he has seen the pattern before. Mr Campion wonders what became of the old couple in the country bus who must have witnessed the crime . . . The trail leads to an eccentric museum in west London, and to a scrapyard in the East End. As an exercise in suspense Hide My Eyes is the equal of The Tiger in the Smoke. As a study of human imperfection it may be superior to the earlier novel. Self-deception is a character flaw in the murderer no less than in the old woman who loves him and hides her eyes from the appalling truth.

This book sounds interesting. I wonder if it's still available?. I've never heard of Margery Allingham, and I love thrillers. Yesterday I watched 'Compulsion', the Orson Wells film from the 50s, which is based on the real life case of two American boys who think normal moral standards don't apply to them, due to their 'superior intelligence'. They kidnapped and murdered a young boy. However clever they were, their guilt came to light due to a very simple mistake.

I think (and hope) that those who are still posting on this case after years of disinformation and spin won't give up now.

There is even a Margery Allingham society which you could google.
You've hit on a very important point in this case, the psychology of the main players. A lot of people simply cannot believe the truth because they are incapable of such actions themselves. We are not dealing with 'normal' people.
The Orson Welles film sounds very much like an early Hitchcock one, 'The rope' in which two young, successful men murder a boy, put him in a chest and give a cocktail party with the chest in the room. Jimmy Stewart in it too.
Other brilliant reading for insights in psychopathic behavior are the Ripley books by Patricia Highsmith. Pure brilliance and you don't even dislike Ripley - all his motives are so logical (for him).

Rope and Compulsion are both based on the real-life Leopold and Loeb case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_and_Loeb

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was the Payne family with the McCanns on the airport bus so it must be David Payne who took the footage as both his wife and mother-in-law appear in it. He's the one saying "Cheer up Gerry" too.

P.S. Link to the footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVyamKT7C-8

Thanks for posting this link . It's the first time, in the very many times it's been mentioned over the years, that I've been able to see a link that had sound that wasn't interrupted. How did you manage that?

I didn't know there were versions with and without the sound. I just went for the first posting I found of it on YouTube.

almostgothic wrote:Rope and Compulsion are both based on the real-life Leopold and Loeb case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_and_Loeb

I've seen them both, but I think 'Compulsion' is superior, simply because it seems to stick more closely to the real-life case. Saying that, I also love the Hitchcock film. I just love old films, full stop . I read a novel about Leopold and Loeb (a long, long time ago, so I can't remember a lot about it), and I think 'Compulsion' was ahead of its time with its focus on the [probable] homosexual relationship between the two boys. The original 'Brighton Rock' is another good thriller which was probably quite forward thinking for the time.

Not Born Yesterday wrote:

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was the Payne family with the McCanns on the airport bus so it must be David Payne who took the footage as both his wife and mother-in-law appear in it. He's the one saying "Cheer up Gerry" too.

P.S. Link to the footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVyamKT7C-8

Thanks for posting this link . It's the first time, in the very many times it's been mentioned over the years, that I've been able to see a link that had sound that wasn't interrupted. How did you manage that?

I didn't know there were versions with and without the sound. I just went for the first posting I found of it on YouTube.

When people were posting links to this film on Youtube a few years ago I never found a clip that worked properly, so I couldn't hear what was said on it. I only knew what was said through reading other posts. Either that, or the clip couldn't be found. It makes me wonder if somebody is persisting in posting this clip, and those who need to know hadn't picked up on it, because they were hoping it had disappeared off the internet.

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was the Payne family with the McCanns on the airport bus so it must be David Payne who took the footage as both his wife and mother-in-law appear in it. He's the one saying "Cheer up Gerry" too.

P.S. Link to the footage. www .youtube.com/watch?v=oVyamKT7C-8

Thanks for posting this link . It's the first time, in the very many times it's been mentioned over the years, that I've been able to see a link that had sound that wasn't interrupted. How did you manage that?

I didn't know there were versions with and without the sound. I just went for the first posting I found of it on YouTube.

When people were posting links to this film on Youtube a few years ago I never found a clip that worked properly, so I couldn't hear what was said on it. I only knew what was said through reading other posts. Either that, or the clip couldn't be found. It makes me wonder if somebody is persisting in posting this clip, and those who need to know hadn't picked up on it, because they were hoping it had disappeared off the internet.

I think you are absolutely right about people trying to remove the evidence from the internet. But in this case I can't see a problem. That video in the link abouve with the sound has been uploaded on Youtube since 6 Oct 2009 without being removed.

Navigator wrote:

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:It was the Payne family with the McCanns on the airport bus so it must be David Payne who took the footage as both his wife and mother-in-law appear in it. He's the one saying "Cheer up Gerry" too.

P.S. Link to the footage. www .youtube.com/watch?v=oVyamKT7C-8

Thanks for posting this link . It's the first time, in the very many times it's been mentioned over the years, that I've been able to see a link that had sound that wasn't interrupted. How did you manage that?

I didn't know there were versions with and without the sound. I just went for the first posting I found of it on YouTube.

When people were posting links to this film on Youtube a few years ago I never found a clip that worked properly, so I couldn't hear what was said on it. I only knew what was said through reading other posts. Either that, or the clip couldn't be found. It makes me wonder if somebody is persisting in posting this clip, and those who need to know hadn't picked up on it, because they were hoping it had disappeared off the internet.

I think you are absolutely right about people trying to remove the evidence from the internet. But in this case I can't see a problem. That video in the link abouve with the sound has been uploaded on Youtube since 6 Oct 2009 without being removed.

it appears that people have not just been trying to remove things, they have removed them. I can think of a few things that seem to have disappeared.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Navigator wrote:

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:

jejune wrote:

Thanks for posting this link . It's the first time, in the very many times it's been mentioned over the years, that I've been able to see a link that had sound that wasn't interrupted. How did you manage that?

I didn't know there were versions with and without the sound. I just went for the first posting I found of it on YouTube.

When people were posting links to this film on Youtube a few years ago I never found a clip that worked properly, so I couldn't hear what was said on it. I only knew what was said through reading other posts. Either that, or the clip couldn't be found. It makes me wonder if somebody is persisting in posting this clip, and those who need to know hadn't picked up on it, because they were hoping it had disappeared off the internet.

I think you are absolutely right about people trying to remove the evidence from the internet. But in this case I can't see a problem. That video in the link abouve with the sound has been uploaded on Youtube since 6 Oct 2009 without being removed.

it appears that people have not just been trying to remove things, they have removed them. I can think of a few things that seem to have disappeared.

Yes a lot of news stories which put the McCanns in a very dodgy light have been removed. And I am sure they weren't all part of the libel case either.

Navigator wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Navigator wrote:

jejune wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:

I didn't know there were versions with and without the sound. I just went for the first posting I found of it on YouTube.

When people were posting links to this film on Youtube a few years ago I never found a clip that worked properly, so I couldn't hear what was said on it. I only knew what was said through reading other posts. Either that, or the clip couldn't be found. It makes me wonder if somebody is persisting in posting this clip, and those who need to know hadn't picked up on it, because they were hoping it had disappeared off the internet.

I think you are absolutely right about people trying to remove the evidence from the internet. But in this case I can't see a problem. That video in the link abouve with the sound has been uploaded on Youtube since 6 Oct 2009 without being removed.

it appears that people have not just been trying to remove things, they have removed them. I can think of a few things that seem to have disappeared.

Yes a lot of news stories which put the McCanns in a very dodgy light have been removed. And I am sure they weren't all part of the libel case either.

One I recall was the Daily Mail article which quoted 'a source close to the McCanns,' as saying the McCanns said 'Find the body and prove we killed her.' I know that was in the article. I can picture where it was on the page, but it's gone. The article was edited.

ETA: The McCanns placed themselves in a 'very dodgy light,' with stories told to their friends and relies about jemmied shutters and statements about dining at the bottom of 'your own garden.'

Is " Ask the dogs" still around ?

Lioned wrote:Is " Ask the dogs" still around ?

They'll soon appear. Nae Wurries!

AnnaEsse wrote:
One I recall was the Daily Mail article which quoted 'a source close to the McCanns,' as saying the McCanns said 'Find the body and prove we killed her.' I know that was in the article. I can picture where it was on the page, but it's gone. The article was edited.

ETA: The McCanns placed themselves in a 'very dodgy light,' with stories told to their friends and relies about jemmied shutters and statements about dining at the bottom of 'your own garden.'

That is still on a news website in Australia

"PROSECUTORS in the Madeleine McCann case want to seize her mother's personal diary and Cuddle Cat – a toy Mrs McCann has clutched since the disappearance.

But in a signal that Kate and Gerry McCann are prepared to fight to prove their innocence, they issued a challenge to Portuguese detectives yesterday, saying: "Find the body and prove we killed her," the Daily Express reported."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/world/move-to-seize-mums-diaries/story-e6frea8l-1111114410454

Note that the above is said in K & G's names (September 12th) when Clarrie came on board (September 17th) it was "a source close to" and a "family friend" according to the Leveson inquiry. And here is his spin in October.

"A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann said: "Any widening of the search area is encouraging and we would welcome that. It does sound as though there is more vigour in that aspect of the inquiry which is good."
He added that while it would be a "tragedy" for the family if police searches eventually yield the little girl's body, at least it would help lift the cloud of suspicion from them.
"If she is dead then she is dead but not by their hand," he said.
Another friend dismissed a report this weekend about suspicious footprints in the McCanns' apartment and the car they hired 25 days after Madeleine went missing as being like "something out of an Agatha Christie novel".
"It doesn't imply guilt in any shape or form," she said. "There are a lot of perfectly good reasons why a footprint of that nature might be found."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566115/Madeleine-McCann-police-to-trawl-reservoir.html

gillyspot wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:
One I recall was the Daily Mail article which quoted 'a source close to the McCanns,' as saying the McCanns said 'Find the body and prove we killed her.' I know that was in the article. I can picture where it was on the page, but it's gone. The article was edited.

ETA: The McCanns placed themselves in a 'very dodgy light,' with stories told to their friends and relies about jemmied shutters and statements about dining at the bottom of 'your own garden.'

That is still on a news website in Australia

"PROSECUTORS in the Madeleine McCann case want to seize her mother's personal diary and Cuddle Cat – a toy Mrs McCann has clutched since the disappearance.

But in a signal that Kate and Gerry McCann are prepared to fight to prove their innocence, they issued a challenge to Portuguese detectives yesterday, saying: "Find the body and prove we killed her," the Daily Express reported."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/world/move-to-seize-mums-diaries/story-e6frea8l-1111114410454

Note that the above is said in K & G's names (September 12th) when Clarrie came on board (September 17th) it was "a source close to" and a "family friend" according to the Leveson inquiry. And here is his spin in October.

"A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann said: "Any widening of the search area is encouraging and we would welcome that. It does sound as though there is more vigour in that aspect of the inquiry which is good."
He added that while it would be a "tragedy" for the family if police searches eventually yield the little girl's body, at least it would help lift the cloud of suspicion from them.
"If she is dead then she is dead but not by their hand," he said.
Another friend dismissed a report this weekend about suspicious footprints in the McCanns' apartment and the car they hired 25 days after Madeleine went missing as being like "something out of an Agatha Christie novel".
"It doesn't imply guilt in any shape or form," she said. "There are a lot of perfectly good reasons why a footprint of that nature might be found."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566115/Madeleine-McCann-police-to-trawl-reservoir.html

Thanks gillyspot.

Very quiet on here tonight!! Hope everyone is well!!!