Estrela da Luz Resort Hotel

Morning Autumn,

Iv'e just read the article and knowing James Murray is sparing with the truth I pasted this bit:-44

He walked a few steps and looked up at a CCTV camera and sighed loudly.
The camera belongs to the Estrela da Luz resort hotel. “I believe that
the person carrying a child in his arms was captured on film from that
very camera,” he said. Isn't it more normal to have a cctv Camera INSIDE the reception area of a Hotel?

Did mr smith give an efit to the pj of did double gazing man get to them first?

kitti wrote:Did mr smith give an efit to the pj of did double gazing man get to them first?

Mr Smith gave an interview to the Guarda , but Mrs smith declined to give a second interview. Personally I don't rate the Smith sighting, it would have taken a man carrying a child to pass the Smith family in the dark......yet 3 months later he identifies Gerry as the man because of the way Gerry carried
his son from the Plane???

Panda wrote:

kitti wrote:Did mr smith give an efit to the pj of did double gazing man get to them first?

Mr Smith gave an interview to the Guarda , but Mrs smith declined to give a second interview. Personally I don't rate the Smith sighting, it would have taken a man carrying a child to pass the Smith family in the dark......yet 3 months later he identifies Gerry as the man because of the way Gerry carried
his son from the Plane???

Hi Panda

I know I read somewhere that Martin Smith said his son rang him to tell him to put the news on as Gerry McCann was on and looked like the man they'd seen. I'v searched the statements but can't find any mention of that - has it been removed?

Autumn wrote:

Panda wrote:

kitti wrote:Did mr smith give an efit to the pj of did double gazing man get to them first?

Mr Smith gave an interview to the Guarda , but Mrs smith declined to give a second interview. Personally I don't rate the Smith sighting, it would have taken a man carrying a child to pass the Smith family in the dark......yet 3 months later he identifies Gerry as the man because of the way Gerry carried
his son from the Plane???

Hi Panda

I know I read somewhere that Martin Smith said his son rang him to tell him to put the news on as Gerry McCann was on and looked like the man they'd seen. I'v searched the statements but can't find any mention of that - has it been removed?

I remember that as well, don"t ask me where it might be!!! I also remember reading the Smiths gave an interview in PDL to the Police, and that when his Son was interviewed he put the Mans' age at 34/35. I do think the PJ would have checked the children in the creche that night and what time they were
picked up by their Parents.

Autumn wrote:

I know I read somewhere that Martin Smith said his son rang him to tell him to put the news on as Gerry McCann was on and looked like the man they'd seen. I'v searched the statements but can't find any mention of that - has it been removed?

I read this as well too and is something that sticks in the memory, and why I mentioned why did it take 14 days to register what he saw despite there being 24/7 news coverage on just about every medium you can think of. Maybe he is dumb deaf and blind

winterbells, I think that is the sketch lioned was referring to

Yes thank you.

jd16 wrote:

Autumn wrote:

I know I read somewhere that Martin Smith said his son rang him to tell him to put the news on as Gerry McCann was on and looked like the man they'd seen. I'v searched the statements but can't find any mention of that - has it been removed?

I read this as well too and is something that sticks in the memory, and why I mentioned why did it take 14 days to register what he saw despite there being 24/7 news coverage on just about every medium you can think of. Maybe he is dumb deaf and blind

Has anyone considered that the Smiths may not have wanted to get involved initially, and were furthermore intimidated and frightened when they saw how 'connected' the McCanns seemingly were? Perhaps they feared being caught up in the middle of the mania, and just wanted to get the hell out of dodge fast! Then Robert Murat became a scapegoat, and they became racked with guilt. It's just a thought, but we only have the Smith's word that they didn't realise it may have been Gerry McCann they saw until he disembarked from the aircraft.... they may have discussed it much sooner?

Just thinking out loud.

. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad."

This is from the Son, Peter Smith's Statement. I hate to keep pouring cold water on your theories but just think......Jane Tanner says she saw a child
being carried at 9.10-15pm from the top of the road wearing pygamas, yet the sighting by the Smiths was 9.55 - 10pm......would it take 4o minutes to walk from A to B.? Even if the Smith Family never mentioned how the child was dressed, couldn't the Son have phoned his Father about Madeleiene just
as a "Hi Dad, that little girl who went missing in PDL is on the telly, switch it on", just for curiosity .

Panda wrote:. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad."

This is from the Son, Peter Smith's Statement. I hate to keep pouring cold water on your theories but just think......Jane Tanner says she saw a child
being carried at 9.10-15pm from the top of the road wearing pygamas, yet the sighting by the Smiths was 9.55 - 10pm......would it take 4o minutes to walk from A to B.? Even if the Smith Family never mentioned how the child was dressed, couldn't the Son have phoned his Father about Madeleiene just
as a "Hi Dad, that little girl who went missing in PDL is on the telly, switch it on", just for curiosity .

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

pennylane wrote:

Has anyone considered that the Smiths may not have wanted to get involved initially, and were furthermore intimidated and frightened when they saw how 'connected' the McCanns seemingly were? Perhaps they feared being caught up in the middle of the mania, and just wanted to get the hell out of dodge fast!

I think if Smith thought this then he would't have gone one big step further in Sept by contacting the police off of his own back to say he was 60-80% is was gerry he saw

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

how so vey true pennylane

pennylane wrote:

Panda wrote:. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad."

This is from the Son, Peter Smith's Statement. I hate to keep pouring cold water on your theories but just think......Jane Tanner says she saw a child
being carried at 9.10-15pm from the top of the road wearing pygamas, yet the sighting by the Smiths was 9.55 - 10pm......would it take 4o minutes to walk from A to B.? Even if the Smith Family never mentioned how the child was dressed, couldn't the Son have phoned his Father about Madeleiene just
as a "Hi Dad, that little girl who went missing in PDL is on the telly, switch it on", just for curiosity .

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

I don't believe Mr smith could identify Gerry three months later by the way he carried sean down the steps of an Aircraft...we'll just have to agree to differ.

Panda wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Panda wrote:. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad."

This is from the Son, Peter Smith's Statement. I hate to keep pouring cold water on your theories but just think......Jane Tanner says she saw a child
being carried at 9.10-15pm from the top of the road wearing pygamas, yet the sighting by the Smiths was 9.55 - 10pm......would it take 4o minutes to walk from A to B.? Even if the Smith Family never mentioned how the child was dressed, couldn't the Son have phoned his Father about Madeleiene just
as a "Hi Dad, that little girl who went missing in PDL is on the telly, switch it on", just for curiosity .

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

I don't believe Mr smith could identify Gerry three months later by the way he carried sean down the steps of an Aircraft...we'll just have to agree to differ.

Panda, read my post, I said that perhaps the Smiths weren't being entirely truthful about only just recognising him at that time. It is a possibility that has not been discussed, and so I was merely putting it out there.

jd16 wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Has anyone considered that the Smiths may not have wanted to get involved initially, and were furthermore intimidated and frightened when they saw how 'connected' the McCanns seemingly were? Perhaps they feared being caught up in the middle of the mania, and just wanted to get the hell out of dodge fast!

I think if Smith thought this then he would't have gone one big step further in Sept by contacting the police off of his own back to say he was 60-80% is was gerry he saw

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

how so vey true pennylane

Hi Jd16, I think you may be right, however it is certainly a fact that very often witnesses don't come forward initially for all kinds of reasons.

I have thought for a while that Murat must be quite a bit taller than Gerry McCann. Martin smith is sure the man he saw is not Murat as "bundleman" was shorter than him.

"An Irish tourist who saw someone carrying a child in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared insists that the mystery man was not Robert Murat.

Martin Smith, from Drogheda in Co Louth, was on holiday in Praia Da Luz with his family when they bumped into the man just before 10pm on May 3 last year.
The Smith family's suspicions were aroused because the man made no response when they asked if the barefoot child was asleep.
"He just put his head down and averted his eyes, which is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year," said Mr Smith.
Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.
"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.
"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.
"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day.
"But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."
The Smiths did contact the Portuguese police once they had returned to Ireland, but say they have had no contact with the officers investigating the case since May last year.
"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone," said Mr Smith.
"They asked me to make a statement to the Gardai, which I did, and two days later Leicestershire police got on to us.
"My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement. They didn't seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across - and that was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.
"I don't know if this information will help the McCanns, but anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will.
"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless. We had two grandchildren with us at the time and it had a terrible effect on them - they all wanted to sleep in the same room as us."
But Mr Smith is certain that the man he and his family saw that night was not Robert Murat, who is still officially an "arguido" in the Madeleine McCann investigation.
"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.
"He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."
Mr Smith's sighting is similar to the one reported by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCann family.
A spokesman for the McCanns said detectives from the Spanish agency hired to investigate the case are now hoping to speak to the Smiths.
Retired Mr Smith, 58, does not wish to appear on camera in order to protect his family from media intrusion."

http://news.sky.com/home/article/1299179

That's very interesting re the stature, Gilly!

From: Long Lindsay
Sent: 20th September, 2007 11:37
CC: Hughes John (DC)
Re: Smith Family

Rec via: TELEPHONE Series: 241 Ident: BC19-8286-1055 20/09/07
Telephone: *********
Locale: Portugal/Out of country
Origin: Mr. Martin Smith 'Ireland

Text: Reported that he passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th of May and returned to the U.K. Is saying that after seeing McCANNS on the news on 9th of September when they returned to the U.K. He has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me.

cherry1 wrote:From: Long Lindsay
Sent: 20th September, 2007 11:37
CC: Hughes John (DC)
Re: Smith Family

Rec via: TELEPHONE Series: 241 Ident: BC19-8286-1055 20/09/07
Telephone: *********
Locale: Portugal/Out of country
Origin: Mr. Martin Smith 'Ireland

Text: Reported that he passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th of May and returned to the U.K. Is saying that after seeing McCANNS on the news on 9th of September when they returned to the U.K. He has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me.

Thanks cherry, that puts it all into perspective again. Mr Smith seems very credible to me I must say.

pennylane wrote:

Panda wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Panda wrote:. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad."

This is from the Son, Peter Smith's Statement. I hate to keep pouring cold water on your theories but just think......Jane Tanner says she saw a child
being carried at 9.10-15pm from the top of the road wearing pygamas, yet the sighting by the Smiths was 9.55 - 10pm......would it take 4o minutes to walk from A to B.? Even if the Smith Family never mentioned how the child was dressed, couldn't the Son have phoned his Father about Madeleiene just
as a "Hi Dad, that little girl who went missing in PDL is on the telly, switch it on", just for curiosity .

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

I don't believe Mr smith could identify Gerry three months later by the way he carried sean down the steps of an Aircraft...we'll just have to agree to differ.

Panda, read my post, I said that perhaps the Smiths weren't being entirely truthful about only just recognising him at that time. It is a possibility that has not been discussed, and so I was merely putting it out there.

right, Gotcha...the snow stopped for a while but has just started again and the flakes are bigger. anyway, I'm nice and warm, plenty of food so the
only thing I care about are the homeless. Iv'e got the new Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy film so am going to watch that.

I would tend to agree Penny, I havent seen anything which suggests to me he is not
telling the truth.

pennylane wrote:

Hi Jd16, I think you may be right, however it is certainly a fact that very often witnesses don't come forward initially for all kinds of reasons.

I agree this is true but the relevance and the timing of it does not feel right to me

The Sky news report that gillypsot just posted...."The Smith family's suspicions were aroused because the man made no response when they asked if the barefoot child was asleep" I don't recall Smith saying this in his statement. This news report to me looks to be fabricated in many parts of it and is not how I read the Smith statement

Just to add to the mix, something I posted last night on the Smith topic (may as well put it here too now as we are talking about it). Just as an observation, Smith mentions in his statement that when he saw Murat the year previous 'He was not wearing glasses at this time' which I find an odd thing to say considering he is also saying he did not know him and had only seen a few times in a bar the previous year....why would Murats wearing of glasses be on his mind to state in police statement? especially when at this point of the statement he was not describing him. His description of who he saw mentions no wearing of glasses. And when you add to this that jane tanners sighting and released sketches of whom she saw like the ‘egg man’ sketch of the alleged abductor that Tanner had approved, these various alleged abductors do not wear glasses

On 13 May, Tanner was taken by a Leicestershire Police Officer, Bob Small, into a police van with darkened windows, from where she could see passers-by. Amongst those who walked by whilst she was hidden with police officers in the van was Robert Murat. She apparently instantly identified Murat as the probable abductor she had seen a few nights previously. Crucially, Robert Murat has poor eyesight and wears glasses all the time. However, when Tanner was asked to give a description of the abductor she claimed to have seen, she did not mention his wearing glasses.

Don't know exactly what I am saying here but something odd strikes me about the glasses mentioning and non mentioning of them

...why hasn't he mentioned the glasses in this sky report but does make a point of them in his statement?

Panda wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Panda wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Panda wrote:. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad."

This is from the Son, Peter Smith's Statement. I hate to keep pouring cold water on your theories but just think......Jane Tanner says she saw a child
being carried at 9.10-15pm from the top of the road wearing pygamas, yet the sighting by the Smiths was 9.55 - 10pm......would it take 4o minutes to walk from A to B.? Even if the Smith Family never mentioned how the child was dressed, couldn't the Son have phoned his Father about Madeleiene just
as a "Hi Dad, that little girl who went missing in PDL is on the telly, switch it on", just for curiosity .

Sorry but I don't believe ANYTHING Jane Tanner or her mates spout, Panda. I don't base any time lines on what she says she saw and when. If their lips are moving they're lying (imho).

I don't believe Mr smith could identify Gerry three months later by the way he carried sean down the steps of an Aircraft...we'll just have to agree to differ.

Panda, read my post, I said that perhaps the Smiths weren't being entirely truthful about only just recognising him at that time. It is a possibility that has not been discussed, and so I was merely putting it out there.

right, Gotcha...the snow stopped for a while but has just started again and the flakes are bigger. anyway, I'm nice and warm, plenty of food so the
only thing I care about are the homeless. Iv'e got the new Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy film so am going to watch that.

Stay warm and nourished Panda

It doesnt look as if the Police had any concerns about the genuineness of the witness.

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

"The Smith family's suspicions were aroused because the man made no response when they asked if the barefoot child was asleep"

Just thinking more about this sentence from the Sky news report. 'If' he did ask this then he must have had a good cause of concern to as you don't ask everyone who passes you in the street this question. Have the Smiths asked anyone else the same question, Jez Wilkins for example. And 'if' he did ask this question he must have been so concerned to ask it, then why is it he says he thought this sighting bared no relevance for over 2 weeks! This doesn't add up at all

I do think the sky news report is garbage

could it have been a mistake by Sky that they reported he spoke to the man, as you say in the statements just says the man didnt say anything.