The “vestiges of a simulation”/Blacksmith

jeanmonroe wrote:Perhaps they will sue him, as they cannot find anyone else to SUE! lol.
He's the last man standing!
But just as an aside.
WHY didn't JW go straight up to the PJ, the next day, and make it known at the earliest possible time and say 'i was standing right there outside the gate talking to the childs dad at the time MM went missing, does that help?'
Did he do that?
Er NO, he walked straight PASSED the PJ and he went to the playgroup with (escorted by?) one of the McS doctors friend.
Okay lets say he 'forgot'
So on his return from the playgroup did he THEN tell the PJ as he passed them a SECOND time he was standing right THERE at the crucial time?
Er NO seems he 'forgot' AGAIN!
What in fact did he do?
HE WENT TO BREAKFAST!!
So JW has one last chance to tell the PJ after breakfast, god forbid a missing child of his friend should stop him eating, does he take THIS third opportunity to tell the PJ about where he was?
Er , you guessed it, NOOOOOOOOO!
He and his wife LIFT up the police taping and return to their apartment!
ONLY after McCann has said his name in his statement do the police go to JW apartment in the afternoon.
WHY didn't JW identify himself to the police as soon as he got up the morning 'after'?
We know he saw the 'searching' because he told us in his much later statements
It seems he didn't even ask the police he walked by three times 'have you found her,? how's the search going?'
NOT A PEEP OUT OF WILKINS, even though his tennis buddys child has gone 'missing'
WHY,WHY,WHY DID WILKINS DODGE/EVADE the PJ?

You make some excellent points here and, yet again, I am looking at this from another angle now. I am not sure about Jez helping to move a body, but certainly I have always thought he was an alibi. I have often thought, did Gerry wait in the apartment in the hope that Jez would walk past, as I think Gerry may have seen him at the restaurant (Jez called at restaurant to go to the toilet), so Gerry may have seen he was out walking, so Gerry on his check would not be a million miles out in thinking he may walk past at any time. That was certainly very handy for Gerry.

As for Jez not speaking to the police, yes it is a puzzle. Perhaps the police intended to make sure all residents were interviewed anyway, perhaps Jez was waiting for them to approach him, who knows, but he should have been the top of the list immediately, during the night, quickly after it happened, because JT had, by this time, told police what she saw etc, so Jez should have been sought as a matter of urgency.

Yes but did JT TELL the police about JEZ?

I think not.

I think the 8:45pm 'ALL at poolside' was the 'kick off time'
Jez went into the club not so that he could see them but for THEM to see him.( on station, so to speak)
We know that at least FOUR were 'missing' from table at 8:45pm
DP/FP/DW/R O'b
So the first line on BOTH cribsheets is a LIE!
He didn't leave by the same entrance.
My guess is he exited another way and then waited in the street for the GM 'check' and then the 'plan' went into action.
If i'm wrong someone will sue me................won't they?

jeanmonroe wrote:Yes but did JT TELL the police about JEZ?

I think not.

I think the 8:45pm 'ALL at poolside' was the 'kick off time'
Jez went into the club not so that he could see them but for THEM to see him.( on station, so to speak)
We know that at least FOUR were 'missing' from table at 8:45pm
DP/FP/DW/R O'b
So the first line on BOTH cribsheets is a LIE!
He didn't leave by the same entrance.
My guess is he exited another way and then waited in the street for the GM 'check' and then the 'plan' went into action.
If i'm wrong someone will sue me................won't they?

I know what you are trying to say here, and I think you do have a point. Also, Jez going to the toilet in the restuarant. Did he? That would mean either leaving the pushchair outside the loo whilst he went inside and who would leave a child in a pushchair in a restaurant. Or it would mean taking the pushchair inside with him, again with a baby this does not seem right. Surely if he was out walking and needed the loo, and he is walking around the apartments were he is stopping anyway, he would go into his own apartment to spend a penny?

jeanmonroe wrote:You cannot be serious!!lol
So in SHOCK that less than TWO hours later they 'FORGET' meeting and talking to JW a 6ft 4in GIANT in the very street at the exact time but THEY do remember JT seeing a stranger carrying a child from 50 metres (KM and GM statements) wearing his semi brouge shoes!
That's no explanation that's called 'aving a laff'! lol

"He now knows it shows a glaring error in the McCs accounts, why would he need to sue?"

because he has a reputation to keep?
I'm not calling him a liar, THEY are!
Crack the JT/JW/GM 'meeting' and you're well on your way to getting to the truth.
Tanner was, imo, a 'lookout' in the street as JW moved something.
I can be wrong a thousand times but they cannot be wrong ONCE!

ETA.
Witness Statement
Date: 2007/05/16 Hours: 15h25m

Rui Segio Lopes Silva

Occupation: GNR Officer

He only had direct contact with the couple and their friends at about 04.00 when Gerry McCann approached the GNR group of which he was a member to ask whether there was a church close by. He replied to him in English, giving the directions to a nearby church.

The PJ gave up the search for the night at around 3.30am.
Gerry went back out again at about 4am with his friend David Payne.

Lots of nooks and crannys in a church to hide things!

On my post on page 1 I said that JT couldn't possible see the abductor, I was going to post......crack this and you will crack the case!!!

Great minds think alike

LJC wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:Yes but did JT TELL the police about JEZ?

I think not.

I think the 8:45pm 'ALL at poolside' was the 'kick off time'
Jez went into the club not so that he could see them but for THEM to see him.( on station, so to speak)
We know that at least FOUR were 'missing' from table at 8:45pm
DP/FP/DW/R O'b
So the first line on BOTH cribsheets is a LIE!
He didn't leave by the same entrance.
My guess is he exited another way and then waited in the street for the GM 'check' and then the 'plan' went into action.
If i'm wrong someone will sue me................won't they?

I know what you are trying to say here, and I think you do have a point. Also, Jez going to the toilet in the restuarant. Did he? That would mean either leaving the pushchair outside the loo whilst he went inside and who would leave a child in a pushchair in a restaurant. Or it would mean taking the pushchair inside with him, again with a baby this does not seem right. Surely if he was out walking and needed the loo, and he is walking around the apartments were he is stopping anyway, he would go into his own apartment to spend a penny?

LJC I didn't know this about Jez nipping to the toilet.....hmm!! Imo Im surprised the McCanns & Co haven't jumped all over this, making out that some spotty ugly swarvy bloke tried to abduct this child while it was left, but was foiled so they made off with Maddy.

It seems that Gerry and Jez for some reason have to tell everyone when they have a pee.....but you must be joking trying to bring Jez into the picture, aren't you??????

Never mind girls, when some interesting News is reported , I.m sure you will get back to normal.

What's in the water in PDL to cause so much peeing

Angelina wrote:What's in the water in PDL to cause so much peeing

I remember Jez taking the child for a walk because she was fractious and when she finally went to sleep he went into the nearest Bar on the pretext to
use the Loo but had a drink while he was there.

Panda wrote:

Angelina wrote:What's in the water in PDL to cause so much peeing

I remember Jez taking the child for a walk because she was fractious and when she finally went to sleep he went into the nearest Bar on the pretext to
use the Loo but had a drink while he was there.

Hi Panda, he only used the loo but didn't stay for a drink. Thanks to Mccanfiles:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 10 am I went to the tennis lesson as usual and Jerry was there and a female. The other two (2) females were not present. We again engaged in general conversation and played the lesson for an hour. I went to the pool where BRIDGETTE was. I think JERRY'S wife, KATE was already by the pool and he joined her. JERRY and KATE were speaking to the tennis coach. We weren't really involved in a conversation by JERRY would say the odd [word missing] and get involved in [word missing].

At 12.30 pm we went to pick XXXX [daughter] up from the crèche as usual. Everyone left the pool at about the same time. I didn't see JERRY or KATE.

We returned to our apartment. We decided to spend the evening-in, watching television. Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8.15 pm – 8.30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I couldn't see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out of the top road. I met him near some stairs and a ground floor flat.

There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said 'you're on walking duty'. I said I was staying in and the pro's and con's and what to do with the children. He said that if he was staying two (2) weeks, he may stay in one night. I don't remember anyone else walk past with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes. He was acting completely normal from what I know of him so far.

I then walked back to the apartment. I had dinner, watched a DVD and went to bed at about 11 pm.
====================

It was the day before that him and his wife ate in the Tapas and their child was in the creche:

On Wednesday 2nd May I could see it was raining and the tennis lesson was postponed. It was re-scheduled for 2.30 pm. I found this out at a later date and missed the lesson. I arrived about five (5) minutes before the end and realised this fact. I saw the usual people at the tennis lesson. I then went back to my apartment. That evening myself and my partner attended the 'TAPAS' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7.30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes JERRY appeared as did one of his friends. I believe this was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. That night we were att my family were using the crèche facility. We found out that the group of families were using occuping [sic] ground floor flats near the swimming pool as they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evening. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.

I found out that Jerry was a cardiologist in a hospital. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We received a call from the crèche informing us that our son was awake. My partner left first and I followed shortly afterwards. The amount of time I spent with JERRY was about fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes. He remained in the restaurant. By the time we left, JERRY was with about seven (7) other people. I picked up my daughter from the crèche and then returned to the apartment.

chrissie wrote:

Panda wrote:

Angelina wrote:What's in the water in PDL to cause so much peeing

I remember Jez taking the child for a walk because she was fractious and when she finally went to sleep he went into the nearest Bar on the pretext to
use the Loo but had a drink while he was there.

Hi Panda, he only used the loo but didn't stay for a drink. Thanks to Mccanfiles:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 10 am I went to the tennis lesson as usual and Jerry was there and a female. The other two (2) females were not present. We again engaged in general conversation and played the lesson for an hour. I went to the pool where BRIDGETTE was. I think JERRY'S wife, KATE was already by the pool and he joined her. JERRY and KATE were speaking to the tennis coach. We weren't really involved in a conversation by JERRY would say the odd [word missing] and get involved in [word missing].

At 12.30 pm we went to pick XXXX [daughter] up from the crèche as usual. Everyone left the pool at about the same time. I didn't see JERRY or KATE.

We returned to our apartment. We decided to spend the evening-in, watching television. Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8.15 pm – 8.30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I couldn't see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out of the top road. I met him near some stairs and a ground floor flat.

There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said 'you're on walking duty'. I said I was staying in and the pro's and con's and what to do with the children. He said that if he was staying two (2) weeks, he may stay in one night. I don't remember anyone else walk past with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes. He was acting completely normal from what I know of him so far.

I then walked back to the apartment. I had dinner, watched a DVD and went to bed at about 11 pm.
====================

It was the day before that him and his wife ate in the Tapas and their child was in the creche:

On Wednesday 2nd May I could see it was raining and the tennis lesson was postponed. It was re-scheduled for 2.30 pm. I found this out at a later date and missed the lesson. I arrived about five (5) minutes before the end and realised this fact. I saw the usual people at the tennis lesson. I then went back to my apartment. That evening myself and my partner attended the 'TAPAS' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7.30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes JERRY appeared as did one of his friends. I believe this was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. That night we were att my family were using the crèche facility. We found out that the group of families were using occuping [sic] ground floor flats near the swimming pool as they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evening. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.

I found out that Jerry was a cardiologist in a hospital. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We received a call from the crèche informing us that our son was awake. My partner left first and I followed shortly afterwards. The amount of time I spent with JERRY was about fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes. He remained in the restaurant. By the time we left, JERRY was with about seven (7) other people. I picked up my daughter from the crèche and then returned to the apartment.

Thanks Chrissie, notice Jez Wilkins does not give a time that he met Gerry. Also, this comment of Gerry's is worth repeating in view of the fact that only two days previously Madeleine had told her Parents she had been crying. " He said if he was staying for two weeks he MAY stay in for one night."

Angelina wrote:What's in the water in PDL to cause so much peeing

And for years they have been 'peeing'
down our necks and telling us that we
are sweating!

chrissie wrote:

Panda wrote:

Angelina wrote:What's in the water in PDL to cause so much peeing

I remember Jez taking the child for a walk because she was fractious and when she finally went to sleep he went into the nearest Bar on the pretext to
use the Loo but had a drink while he was there.

Hi Panda, he only used the loo but didn't stay for a drink. Thanks to Mccanfiles:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 10 am I went to the tennis lesson as usual and Jerry was there and a female. The other two (2) females were not present. We again engaged in general conversation and played the lesson for an hour. I went to the pool where BRIDGETTE was. I think JERRY'S wife, KATE was already by the pool and he joined her. JERRY and KATE were speaking to the tennis coach. We weren't really involved in a conversation by JERRY would say the odd [word missing] and get involved in [word missing].

At 12.30 pm we went to pick XXXX [daughter] up from the crèche as usual. Everyone left the pool at about the same time. I didn't see JERRY or KATE.

We returned to our apartment. We decided to spend the evening-in, watching television. Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8.15 pm – 8.30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I couldn't see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out of the top road. I met him near some stairs and a ground floor flat.

There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said 'you're on walking duty'. I said I was staying in and the pro's and con's and what to do with the children. He said that if he was staying two (2) weeks, he may stay in one night. I don't remember anyone else walk past with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes. He was acting completely normal from what I know of him so far.

I then walked back to the apartment. I had dinner, watched a DVD and went to bed at about 11 pm.
====================

It was the day before that him and his wife ate in the Tapas and their child was in the creche:

On Wednesday 2nd May I could see it was raining and the tennis lesson was postponed. It was re-scheduled for 2.30 pm. I found this out at a later date and missed the lesson. I arrived about five (5) minutes before the end and realised this fact. I saw the usual people at the tennis lesson. I then went back to my apartment. That evening myself and my partner attended the 'TAPAS' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7.30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes JERRY appeared as did one of his friends. I believe this was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. That night we were att my family were using the crèche facility. We found out that the group of families were using occuping [sic] ground floor flats near the swimming pool as they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evening. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.

I found out that Jerry was a cardiologist in a hospital. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We received a call from the crèche informing us that our son was awake. My partner left first and I followed shortly afterwards. The amount of time I spent with JERRY was about fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes. He remained in the restaurant. By the time we left, JERRY was with about seven (7) other people. I picked up my daughter from the crèche and then returned to the apartment.

"I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I couldn't see inside the restaurant"

But I bet Gerry could see out. I bet Gerry saw Jez and lined up his alibi. Jez walking his child off to sleep; with Gerry thinking, childcare would make a good conversation and I'll give the impression I am a caring dad even though I have left my children all alone. I still think Gerry spotted Jez when he went to the toilet and quick footed back to the apartment in order to catch him in the road. I bet Gerry would know which apartment Jez was in and which way he was walking. It just seems too much of a coincidence that Gerry was seen by someone independent checking, or appearing to check, and struck up a conversation about the difficulties of childcare on holiday, even though that is probably what they spoke about in the restaurant the previous night when Jez admits he used the creche facilities but had to leave early because the creche said his child was crying. Kate and Gerry did not wish for such calls from the creche, lest it should spoil their evening!

It was the day before that him and his wife ate in the Tapas and their child was in the creche:"


Would it be Madeleine who was in the creche ? I didn't think any of the McCann children were in the creche.