Re: \dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales

tigger Tue 23 Oct - 17:18

ELI wrote:
joyce1938 wrote:I have definatly read somewhere that a sample was available it arrived andwas blood sample like the ones taken in hospital and i think came from a validated source not sure police or hospital? joyce1938 she was born in england ,went to holland as a baby .

Yes this turned up in October I think, after all the analysis / tests and reports were completed.

DNA / genetic material found at the scene of the crime is used to create genetic profiles in order to identify individuals.

This is called trace evidence comparison. - ie, if I was known to have been in the apartment a sample of my DNA & or a hair sample may be needed from me in order to compare to anything that was found in the apartment.

This applies where ever possible to anyone who was known to have had access to the apartment; otherwise there would likely be a batch of unidentified DNA samples.

They were never supplied with any incontroversial DNA material from Maddie. The obvious sample would have been the heel prick which is stored I believe.
Washing the clothes on Saturday the 5th May, the apartment cleaned partly with bleach apparently and shared sandals, toothbrushes and hairbrush.

In the case of missing persons it is important to have a genetic profile of the missing person otherwise any of the missing persons DNA which was gathered at the apartment would be unidentifiable.

In fact in all cases the effective use of DNA as evidence requires the collection and analysis of samples to determine the exact source of the DNA.

There’s two points to consider;

1, It appears that they didn’t (for whatever reason) create a genetic profile of the victim from any biological material from Portugal.

2, It appears that they couldn’t conclude whether or not any biological material found at the crime scenes in Portugal came from the victim.

Hmmm I can’t help thinking something doesn’t add up here ………

Why exactly didn't the McCanns want there to be any DNA of Maddie around? The bleach cleaning would be a side issue. Washing the clothes isn't, the absence of her 'new' trainers with little pink lights, which are visible in the playground photo but not really on the bus is telling: they would have supplied perfect DNA.
There were no dirty clothes belonging to Maddie, e.g. the pink dress was never seen except on the photo 3 weeks later and would have been ideal.
Cuddlecat was washed - used by Kate and Amelie no longer unique to Maddie, washed within weeks.

The point is of course that the PJ initially didn't look for Maddie's DNA in particular, but all DNA present in 5a. DNA of a stranger is what they were looking for, up to 20 people had contaminated the crime scene and it wasn't easy.
They must have gathered all that they needed, control samples of the family and the T7 I take it and anyone who had been in the room that evening.
It was probably then that they discovered that no definite DNA of the child could be found and that the parents - being doctors - provided unbelievable excuses for the lack of DNA such as the shared toothbrush.
So this might be as much as a week later and big alarm bells must have been ringing in HQ PJ.

The pillowcase in Rothley - was there nothing else in Rothley which could be only from Maddie? Who chose the pillowcase over everything else in Maddie's own room, which is pink and is a shrine to her according to Kate. It should still be full of her DNA. Unless it's all had a good clean. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 157799$

**Panda** Tue 23 Oct - 17:47

Hi tigger, Silvia Batista , Managersee at the Ocean Club, called on by John Hill to help said when she arrived at 5a about 11pm, she was horrified to see the apartment full and people walking about the rooms resulting in the contamination of any evidence of an abduction.

My Son thinks the McCanns are not guilty and the likely explanation is a Member of Staff at PDL , knowing the back door would be open, had an accomplice at the front door waiting to take Madeleine to a waiting car.

**kitti** Tue 23 Oct - 19:32

What about her pink travelling bag.....

mossman Tue 23 Oct - 19:38

But : Panda says Krugel got the hair sample from Madeleine's hairbrush. He arrived in July. The pillow was retrieved in May. Why did they not use the hairbrush in May ?

matthew Tue 23 Oct - 19:40

Panda wrote:Hi tigger, Silvia Batista , Managersee at the Ocean Club, called on by John Hill to help said when she arrived at 5a about 11pm, she was horrified to see the apartment full and people walking about the rooms resulting in the contamination of any evidence of an abduction.

My Son thinks the McCanns are not guilty and the likely explanation is a Member of Staff at PDL , knowing the back door would be open, had an accomplice at the front door waiting to take Madeleine to a waiting car.

$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 613255$

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 19:46

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case – ref. SJM/1 - or the hairbrush – ref. SJM/36.

I believe the sample given to Krugal was recovered from inside the hood of a coat and I think there was an eyelash recovered from a pillowcase in Rothley.

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 19:48

kitti wrote:What about her pink travelling bag.....

Yes that should have been sufficient and there should have been DNA on just about everything the family had.

matthew Tue 23 Oct - 19:49

ELI wrote:No hair was recovered from the pillow-case – ref. SJM/1 - or the hairbrush – ref. SJM/36.

I believe the sample given to Krugal was recovered from inside the hood of a coat and I think there was an eyelash recovered from a pillowcase in Rothley.

Unbelievable isnt it...i bet even duncan goodhew has hairs on his pillow case
$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 SpeakOutDuncanGoodhew$

mossman Tue 23 Oct - 20:12

matthew wrote:
ELI wrote:No hair was recovered from the pillow-case – ref. SJM/1 - or the hairbrush – ref. SJM/36.

I believe the sample given to Krugal was recovered from inside the hood of a coat and I think there was an eyelash recovered from a pillowcase in Rothley.

Unbelievable isnt it...i bet even duncan goodhew has hairs on his pillow case
$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 SpeakOutDuncanGoodhew$

$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

Eli - thanks. I had a memory of a hood deep in the back of my mind and have been searching to see where I read about it. You seem very knowledgeable, have you an opinion on what this subject ? Is it as a big a mess as it appears or is it run of the mill in cases such as this ?

Fern Tue 23 Oct - 20:12

Panda wrote:Dogs are not infallible and if you look at the videos again it is noticeable that at times Martin Grimes "guides" the dogs to the area he wants them to search.Also, they were called in months after Madeleine disappeared , the Portugese Police used dogs within 24 hours in search of Madeleine, pity the dogs hadn't been called in sooner.

I would agree with you here Panda, Martin G does recall his dogs back to the car.

Yes i was once a so called 'Anti' however the videos do speak for themselves.

Fern Tue 23 Oct - 20:16

kitti wrote:I would like to know why the Mccanns washed the curtains and why they washed the wall behind the settee which incidentally happened to have blood specks on and also the floor.

I would Also like to ask mr Amaral a question .....

'Was there bleach JUST behind the settee on the wall and floor or was there bleach In other parts off the floor or walls in the apt'?

Lets take a step back from any forum talk Kitti.

Can you provide a link to substantiate your claims that the curtains had been washed ?

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 20:23

matthew wrote:
ELI wrote:No hair was recovered from the pillow-case – ref. SJM/1 - or the hairbrush – ref. SJM/36.

I believe the sample given to Krugal was recovered from inside the hood of a coat and I think there was an eyelash recovered from a pillowcase in Rothley.

Unbelievable isnt it...i bet even duncan goodhew has hairs on his pillow case
$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 SpeakOutDuncanGoodhew$

$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$ excellent $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 20:25

mossman wrote:
matthew wrote:
ELI wrote:No hair was recovered from the pillow-case – ref. SJM/1 - or the hairbrush – ref. SJM/36.

I believe the sample given to Krugal was recovered from inside the hood of a coat and I think there was an eyelash recovered from a pillowcase in Rothley.

Unbelievable isnt it...i bet even duncan goodhew has hairs on his pillow case
$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 SpeakOutDuncanGoodhew$

$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

Eli - thanks. I had a memory of a hood deep in the back of my mind and have been searching to see where I read about it. You seem very knowledgeable, have you an opinion on what this subject ? Is it as a big a mess as it appears or is it run of the mill in cases such as this ?

It's a mess and needs sorting imho $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 20:32

Fern wrote:
Panda wrote:Dogs are not infallible and if you look at the videos again it is noticeable that at times Martin Grimes "guides" the dogs to the area he wants them to search.Also, they were called in months after Madeleine disappeared , the Portugese Police used dogs within 24 hours in search of Madeleine, pity the dogs hadn't been called in sooner.

I would agree with you here Panda, Martin G does recall his dogs back to the car.

Yes i was once a so called 'Anti' however the videos do speak for themselves.

Would have been really impressive if Martin G's had told Eddie to go search around the wheelwell and Eddie just trotted off and did it wouldn't it $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

**kitti** Tue 23 Oct - 20:40

That's the way the dogs are trained, panda ...

Go ask Mr Amaral Fern.

mossman Tue 23 Oct - 20:43

Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

**kitti** Tue 23 Oct - 20:53

BLOOD ON CURTAINS IN 5A

The dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area. This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.

matthew Tue 23 Oct - 21:13

Imo a cadaver dog can smell the scent of death pretty quickly but to actually source the spot as it were,it can go around the roundabout,i can smell bacon sandwiches from a fair distance but to actually find the grilled bacon(healthy option)i could posssibily walk to the house,past the house,back again...untill my receptors recognise where that lovely smell is coming from $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 771556$
If Madeleine turns up alive,apart from eating my hat...has a cadaver dog ever alerted to anyone reported missing who has later turned up...oh yeah Shannon Matthews...this actually shows the dogs smell what they are trained to sniff,if this be false,could i suggest to non believers... a campaign to free the murderers who have been convicted on the evidence of these dogs where there has been no body recovered

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 21:13

mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

Quote: " FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops. " $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

**dazedandconfused** Tue 23 Oct - 21:18

ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

Quote: " FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops. " $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

He's really going to be in trouble when they've taught them to talk - a whale can, so perhaps dogs will be next. If only $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

mossman Tue 23 Oct - 21:21

ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

Quote: " FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops. " $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

Sniffer dog manipulation - there should be a law against that. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 21:22

dazedandconfused wrote:
ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

Quote: " FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops. " $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

He's really going to be in trouble when they've taught them to talk - a whale can, so perhaps dogs will be next. If only $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

$\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$ Gerry would still claim they were lying.

"A source close to the couple said last night: "Gerry says a dog went up to the Scenic, sniffed around and went to head off. He watched the dog being brought back to the vehicle.
"Finally, it reacts around the boot area. Gerry was open-mouthed at that, he feels the dog was manoeuvred into a position where it could react." $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

ELI Tue 23 Oct - 21:24

mossman wrote:
ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

Quote: " FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops. " $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

Sniffer dog manipulation - there should be a law against that. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$

You know what will be next don't you ??

Eddie planted the cadaver scent $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$

mossman Tue 23 Oct - 21:31

ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:
ELI wrote:
mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

Quote: " FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops. " $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 23324$

Sniffer dog manipulation - there should be a law against that. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$

You know what will be next don't you ??

Eddie planted the cadaver scent $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$

But Eddie was notoriously unreliable, he would not have got the right car. I think it is more likely there was a sea bass driving it. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 294124$

tigger Tue 23 Oct - 21:36

mossman wrote:Come on folks - it was those damn posters. Should never have been left on the car windows. The dogs would be still running and Grimes would not know which car to point to if the missing posters had been removed. $\dogs don't lie...in the US or in Wales - Page 4 25346$

You know, it is getting to the point where we should all bring a cadaver dog on holiday, if you intend to hire a car. Get him to check it at the airport before you take possession of it, otherwise you could be very unlucky like Kate and Gerry and get a cadaver car.

That's in the bewk isn't it? That their car was easy to spot because it had poster all over it. On the video you can see that the posters are only on the rear of the car which is parked with the back close to the wall.

As for calling the dogs back to the same car, MG calls them back to other cars as well, it's the way they operate.

But that pink rucksack, where the devil has that got to? Or was that washed as well?

I've seen a video of Kruger with a complete hairbrush full of hair of Maddie, or so he says. Why do all those snake-oil salesmen come from SA?

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