Re: Lisbon Libel Trial McCanns v Amaral

almostgothic Fri 13 Sep - 21:21

It's amazing how many McCann supporters, sympathisers and experts don't do irony ...

interested Fri 13 Sep - 21:22

margaret wrote:
almostgothic wrote:
"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."

How in the world did he have the nerve to stand before a court and say that?! He should be thoroughly ashamed as should the crap parents who put him up to it.

They were the ones who did not protect Maddie and then told the 2-3 year old twins that a nasty person had stolen her!!!

I wonder if he has read Kate's book.

**Claudia79** Fri 13 Sep - 21:46

maebee wrote:http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/09/maddie-case-psychologist-and-criminal.html

Afternoon session was canceled

Only two witnesses, a psycholigist and a criminal lawyer, were heard today on the second day of the trial of the civil lawsuit that was filed by the McCann couple against former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, as the afternoon session was canceled.

According to Isabel Duarte, the McCanns' lawyer, the cancellation of the audience that had been scheduled for the afternoon was due to a "personal problem" of judge Maria Emília Melo e Castro. Nevertheless, the impediment is of temporary character and does not compromise the course of the trail.

Isabel Duarte, the McCann couple's lawyer in the civil suit, over defamation, against the former PJ inspector who investigated the disappearance of the English child in the Algarve (2007), told Lusa agency that due to this unforeseen problem with the judge, the court was not able to hear the other three witnesses, all of them relatives of the British couple.

With Kate McCann and the grandmother of the missing little girl seated in the area that is destined for the public, the morning session was used to hear an English psychologist who accompanied Madeleine McCann's twin siblings after the tragic disappearance of the child from a hotel apartment in Lagos, in the Algarve.

The other witness that was heard was a criminal lawyer who helped the McCann couple in an attempt to decipher the mystery that surrounds the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, who spoke about the media impact that the public statements of Gonçalo Amaral, involving the child's parents in the disappearance, had in England.

Isabel Duarte mentioned that the following sessions are scheduled for September 19, 20 and 27, then continuing on October 2 and 8, and concluding on the 5th of November.

According to the lawyer, Kate McCann will not testify during the trial, despite the fact that the new Civil Process Code already foresees that possibility, given that the process was worked upon and elaborated under another presupposition.

The same happens with Gonçalo Amaral, who will not make a statement during the trial.

Earlier, the parties failed to reach an extrajudicial agreement within the civil case, in which Madeleine McCann's parents requested compensation in the amount of 1.2 million euro over the alleged defamation by the former PJ inspector (who investigated the child's disappearance). The trial started with the questioning of three witnesses - a Canadian and two Englishmen - who are "friends" of the McCann couple.
In statements to Lusa on Thursday, Isabel Duarte said that since the beginning, the McCann couple was open to reach an extrajudicial agreement with Gonçalo Amaral, but it was not possible to reach an agreement with the arguido.
Nonetheless, she stressed that the McCann couple's main goal was that the investigation into the child's disappearance was restarted, which, according to her, has already happened, without adding any further details or leads.

In a related process, the Civil Court of Lisbon decided, in January of 2010, to keep the prohibition of the sale of the book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", authored by Gonçalo Amaral, and of the video with the same title, based on a documentary that was broadcast by TVI.

The ban of the book and the video, which presents Gonçalo Amaral's thesis on the involvement of Kate and Gerry McCann in the disappearance of their daughter by concealing the cadaver, had been provisionally ordered on the 9th of September of 2009.

On the 19th of October of 2010, the Appellate Court of Lisbon annulled the decision of the Civil Court, after which the McCann couple appealed to the Supreme Court of Justice. In a ruling dated March 18, 2011, the Supreme Court confirmed the Appellate Court's decision.

Madeleine McCann disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007, in an apartment in a holiday resort in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, where she was spending a vacation with her parents and her twin siblings.

At that time, Gonçalo Amaral was the coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the Judiciary Police in Portimão.

Kate and Gerry McCann, who have always stated that the child was abducted, were made arguidos in September, 2007.

The investigation was archived due to a lack of evidence in July of 2008, although the Public Ministry admits reopening it if new data concerning the child's disappearance surfaces.

From the horse's mouth. It was them who wanted a deal. Period.

**tanszi** Fri 13 Sep - 21:58

the world isn't always safe and parents cant always protect children. an example is the Madeleiene McCann case. whatever happened to her happened because her parents left the 3 children under 4 on their own whilst they went out with friends. they weren't there to protect her from the alleged abductor. where do they find these people to speak on their behalf, and allegedly a child psychologist. edited to add. safety comes because people usually teach their children about safety, like crossing roads, not going with anyone who isn't their parents, etc etc oh and providing babysitters for children when they go out so that they feel safe and cared for. jimo

maebee Fri 13 Sep - 23:04

In statements to Lusa on Thursday, Isabel Duarte said that since the beginning, the McCann couple was open to reach an extrajudicial agreement with Gonçalo Amaral, but it was not possible to reach an agreement with the arguido.

With the arguido? What does that mean? GA wasn't an arguido!

**Claudia79** Fri 13 Sep - 23:10

maebee wrote:
In statements to Lusa on Thursday, Isabel Duarte said that since the beginning, the McCann couple was open to reach an extrajudicial agreement with Gonçalo Amaral, but it was not possible to reach an agreement with the arguido.
With the arguido? What does that mean? GA wasn't an arguido!

They mean arguido like in defendant.

James Sat 14 Sep - 0:20

This child psycologist was apparently called in at the time madeleine vanished to advise re the twins.

What can he usefully say about a book published over a year later, when the twins were aged three and unlikely to say the least, to be able to read a book in portuguese?

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 0:39

James wrote:This child psycologist was apparently called in at the time madeleine vanished to advise re the twins.

What can he usefully say about a book published over a year later, when the twins were aged three and unlikely to say the least, to be able to read a book in portuguese?

Hi James, I would like to know why the twins are Wards of Court. It was only meant to be in the event the McCanns were charged when they were made aguidos . Wouldn't you think the parents would want this lifted when their aquido status was lifted??? Technically , how can they act for the twins?

Loopdaloop Sat 14 Sep - 1:07

interested wrote:You can check out David Trickey, psychologist, at davidtrickey.com - he works with "children and families and has developed specialists skills in working with trauma and traumatic bereavement". He also assess "parenting".

He's very experienced vocationally for someone who a bit of a naive psychologist that trained in EMDR which is a pseudoscientific technique devised by France's Shapiro who got her psychology qualification from a discredited and now defunct 'university'. He also dabbles in hypnosis! He became a certified clinical psychologist through a statement of equivalence via the grand parenting route and a masters where the standards were lower at that point then they are today. I'm not surprised he got himself involved with the Mccanns.

His cv http://davidtrickey.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/cv020413.pdf

jinvta Sat 14 Sep - 1:24

almostgothic wrote:Seems that two witnesses were heard before the judge's exit.
A member of UK Justice Forum was there and says:

Yes, though he presented himself as a specialist of criminal defence and management of the media, Mr McBride, this morning, wasn't able to give even vague numbers when asked by GA's lawyer (Victor Santos de Oliveira) to compare the media effects of the disappearance, the arguido status and the book

This is the most interesting statement of all. It appears that the McCanns lawyers have no way of proving that the McCann's distress was caused by Amaral's book as opposed to other situations. What percentage of their distress can be attributed to Madeleine going missing, the publishing of the book, the releasing of the files, their arguido status, the media including the internet, etc? Without any proof that the the majority of their distress is linked mainly to the book, they have no case at all.

I have a feeling that this case is going to get thrown out with the McCanns being forced to pay Amaral's costs. Looking at the comments on sky (some 1800 of them), the majority of people are now skeptical of the McCanns. And even if they still believe that she was "taken," they think the McCanns have no right to suppress anyone else's opinions regarding the matter and certainly should not be profiting from Madeleine's disappearance, which was at the very least caused by gross negligence on the part of the parents.

The tide of public opinion has truly turned. People believe in freedom of speech, not just for the McCanns. They are sick of the McCanns and their attempts to silence anyone who questions their fairytale version of events. Amaral didn't cause this change in tide, their own greedy, money-grubbing actions did.

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 1:52

jinvta wrote:
almostgothic wrote:Seems that two witnesses were heard before the judge's exit.
A member of UK Justice Forum was there and says:

Yes, though he presented himself as a specialist of criminal defence and management of the media, Mr McBride, this morning, wasn't able to give even vague numbers when asked by GA's lawyer (Victor Santos de Oliveira) to compare the media effects of the disappearance, the arguido status and the book
This is the most interesting statement of all. It appears that the McCanns lawyers have no way of proving that the McCann's distress was caused by Amaral's book as opposed to other situations. What percentage of their distress can be attributed to Madeleine going missing, the publishing of the book, the releasing of the files, their arguido status, the media including the internet, etc? Without any proof that the the majority of their distress is linked mainly to the book, they have no case at all.

I have a feeling that this case is going to get thrown out with the McCanns being forced to pay Amaral's costs. Looking at the comments on sky (some 1800 of them), the majority of people are now skeptical of the McCanns. And even if they still believe that she was "taken," they think the McCanns have no right to suppress anyone else's opinions regarding the matter and certainly should not be profiting from Madeleine's disappearance, which was at the very least caused by gross negligence on the part of the parents.

The tide of public opinion has truly turned. People believe in freedom of speech, not just for the McCanns. They are sick of the McCanns and their attempts to silence anyone who questions their fairytale version of events. Amaral didn't cause this change in tide, their own greedy, money-grubbing actions did.

Yes, very few Papers are taking the trouble to report on this. Even the Sun, who put Cameron on the Spot by publishing the McCanns letter , The Express, always a devotee, in fact there seems little interest in the Trial. The most important factor is the claim that Amaral's Book suggested Madeleine died in 5a, that is one of the theories in the Final Report.

jeanmonroe Sat 14 Sep - 2:52

We are going to propose that the witnesses give their testimonies in written form so they do not have to return from Britain again, but it is not certain that this will be accepted by the court," a lawyer for the McCann family told AFP.
___________________________________________________________

McCann lawyers don't do irony then?

Kate McCann only had to send her testamony in written form, SIX YEARS AGO, to the Portuguese Authorities to get the case of her missing daughter un-shelved, re-opened.

She never did ask, not once.

All it would have cost her was the price of a stamp!

But now, without a trace of irony, we have their lawyer, it would seem, saying that if the witnesses could each write a letter there would be a never ending supply of stamps!

Panda wrote:
The most important factor is the claim that Amaral's Book suggested Madeleine died in 5a, that is one of the theories in the Final Report.
____________________________________________________________________

That's true, but is that a lie or is that a theory?

Libel cases are about proving someone LIED not about what someone THEORISED.

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 3:14

jeanmonroe wrote:We are going to propose that the witnesses give their testimonies in written form so they do not have to return from Britain again, but it is not certain that this will be accepted by the court," a lawyer for the McCann family told AFP.
___________________________________________________________

McCann lawyers don't do irony then?

Kate McCann only had to send her testamony in written form to the Portuguese Authorities to get the case of her missing daughter un-shelved, re-opened.

She never did ask, not once.

All it would have cost her was the price of a stamp!

But now, without a trace of irony, we have their lawyer, it would seem, saying that if the witnesses could each write a letter there would be a never ending supply of stamps!

Panda wrote:
The most important factor is the claim that Amaral's Book suggested Madeleine died in 5a, that is one of the theories in the Final Report.
____________________________________________________________________

That's true, but is that a lie or is that a theory?

Libel cases are about proving someone LIED not about what someone THEORISED.

It is a theory because it cannot be proved , but it cannot be regarded as a lie in my opinion because after 6 years Madeleine has not been found. If the McCanns want to stick to their assertion that Madeleine was abducted there is no proof of that either . Maybe there is a a law of probability because of the blood stains in 5a.

jinvta Sat 14 Sep - 3:28

The laws of probability in the disappearance of a nearly 4-year-old toddler point strongly in the direction of the parents (or at least someone known to the family) with or without cadaver odor and blood stains.

**fred** Sat 14 Sep - 5:34

Usaul farce isn't when the Mccanns hit town!! They had no need to appear in person, SY told them not to go, but Kate had to do her Royal duty and grand appearance onthe court steps. Now this!! Just what is going on??

http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8723141/maddie-libel-case-suspended-in-portugal

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 8:02

fred wrote:Usaul farce isn't when the Mccanns hit town!! They had no need to appear in person, SY told them not to go, but Kate had to do her Royal duty and grand appearance onthe court steps. Now this!! Just what is going on??

http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8723141/maddie-libel-case-suspended-in-portugal

Morning fred, a bit sparing with the truth that report wouldn't you say ???

**fred** Sat 14 Sep - 8:48

Panda wrote:
fred wrote:Usaul farce isn't when the Mccanns hit town!! They had no need to appear in person, SY told them not to go, but Kate had to do her Royal duty and grand appearance onthe court steps. Now this!! Just what is going on??

http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8723141/maddie-libel-case-suspended-in-portugal
Morning fred, a bit sparing with the truth that report wouldn't you say ???

For sure!!! have you seen this? There is no way that the Mccanns can stop the twins on the internet!!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/eurhttp://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/130913/maddie-libel-case-suspended-portugalope/article3869013.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_09_13

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 9:01

fred wrote:
Panda wrote:
fred wrote:Usaul farce isn't when the Mccanns hit town!! They had no need to appear in person, SY told them not to go, but Kate had to do her Royal duty and grand appearance onthe court steps. Now this!! Just what is going on??

http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8723141/maddie-libel-case-suspended-in-portugal
Morning fred, a bit sparing with the truth that report wouldn't you say ???
For sure!!! have you seen this? There is no way that the Mccanns can stop the twins on the internet!!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/eurhttp://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/130913/maddie-libel-case-suspended-portugalope/article3869013.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_09_13

I think it has been whoosh clunked fred, "page not found" shows when I clicked.

**fred** Sat 14 Sep - 9:10

Yes, it's gone now!!! It was saying how the Mccanns will 'shield' the twins from the internet, usual bunkum from them.
Now this is interesting, it's from a Portuguese paper, it's been put on FB and i'm sure the person won't mindme putting it on here.

http://www.dn.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=3417080

It is saying that:-
"The process, which was adjourned twice, was suspended at the request of the English couple's lawyer in an attempt to reach an extrajudicial agreement between the parties. Something which never happened."

Looks like it wasn't going the Mccanns way after all!!! Hence Brunty not tweeting yesterday from the court

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 9:25

Morning fred, the link is just a copy of what Kate said outside the Courthouse, this is another report from the same source.

Psychologist and lawyer testified in favor of McCann

by Lusa, published by Anne ManningOntem

Kate McCann yesterday outside the CourtPhoto © REUTERS/Rafael Marchante

Only two witnesses, a psychologist and a criminal lawyer, were heard today on the second day of the trial of the civil process moved by McCann against ex-inspetor of PJ Gonçalo Amaral, after the afternoon session be canceled.

According to Isabel Duarte, a lawyer of McCann, the cancellation of the hearing scheduled for the afternoon was due to a "personal problem" of Judge Maria Emília Melo e Castro. The impediment is however of a temporary nature and does not compromise the progress of the trial.

Isabel Duarte, the couple's Attorney McCann in the civil action, for defamation, against the ex-inspetor of the PJ who investigated the disappearance of the British toddler in the Algarve (2007), said the agency Lusa that, due to this unforeseen event with the judge, the Court could not hear the other three witnesses, all of them relatives of the British couple.

With Kate McCann and the grandfather of missing girl sitting in the area intended for the public, the audience in the morning served to hear an English psychologist who accompanied the twin brothers of Madeleine McCann, after the tragic disappearance of the child in an apartment-hotel in Lagos, Algarve.

Another witness heard was a criminal lawyer who helped the couple McCann in an attempt to decipher the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and who spoke about the media coverage they had in England the public statements of Gonçalo Amaral to involve parents in the child's disappearance.

Isabel Duarte said that the next trial sessions are scheduled for 19, 20 and 27 September, continuing the 02 and 08 of October and ending on November 05."

"With Kate McCann and the grandfather of missing girl sitting in the area intended for the public,".....mistake obviously .

I wonder what the Criminal Lawyer had to say???

**kitti** Sat 14 Sep - 10:12

If I was the judge this would be my summing up.....

Kate and gerry McCann on 3rd may 2007 took it upon themselves to go out and leave their 3 children alone whilst they dined.

During that time madeleine McCann vanished never to be seen again.

From 4th may 2007 until this day, the media have relentlessly pursued the case and were invited, from the beginning , by the mccanns, to help get the news out about Madeleine.

Kate and gerry McCann could off decided to take their children with them as one or two off them cried the night before and Madeleine informed their parents off this but they still decided to leave them alone that night ending in Madeleine going missing never to be seen again.

So I find for Mr Amaral as if the mccanns had not off gone out that night and left them alone Madeleine would not off gone missing, the press would not be pursuing their every move and Mr Amaral would not off written a book and we would not be sitting here and now and Madeleine would be enjoying her life to the full.

I find the mccanns at fault for everything they are going through and putting their other two children through for the rest off their lives ....

I find the mccanns liable and to pay each off the twins £500,000 for their pain and suffering and future suffering.

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 10:32

Well said kitti, but err...I don't think the Judge will go down that road. Lisbon Libel Trial McCanns v Amaral - Page 14 25346

The McCanns charge that Amaral , by writing his book hindered the search for Madeleine.......answer, it hasn't.

The McCanns claim that Amaral suggested they had killed Madeleine....Amaral said he believed Madeleine died in 5a, which is what the Portugese Final Report says.

The McCanns claim the family suffered ill health because of Amaral's book , since it was printed in Portugese I think any judge would discount this .

I think the McCanns went one lawsuit too far, they got carried away winning £600,000 from the express so probably thought this would be a walkover. I also find it very strange that none of the remaining Tapas 7 have put their heads above the parapet as yet in support of their friends.

James Sat 14 Sep - 10:49

Panda wrote:
James wrote:This child psycologist was apparently called in at the time madeleine vanished to advise re the twins.

What can he usefully say about a book published over a year later, when the twins were aged three and unlikely to say the least, to be able to read a book in portuguese?
Hi James, I would like to know why the twins are Wards of Court. It was only meant to be in the event the McCanns were charged when they were made aguidos . Wouldn't you think the parents would want this lifted when their aquido status was lifted??? Technically , how can they act for the twins?

Panda, I don't think the twins are wards of court. Madeleine was made one shortly after she 'vanished.'

On a different note, i just had a thought about the 'personal' problem that caused the lady judge not to return after lunch.

maybe it was a child minding problem!

Maybe her minder texted to say she was sick/whatever and the lady judge unlike the Mccanns did not want to leave her child/children home alone.

We are told the problem will not affect the scheduled dates next week and you could not say that if the judge was ill.

**Panda** Sat 14 Sep - 11:02

James wrote:
Panda wrote:
James wrote:This child psycologist was apparently called in at the time madeleine vanished to advise re the twins.

What can he usefully say about a book published over a year later, when the twins were aged three and unlikely to say the least, to be able to read a book in portuguese?
Hi James, I would like to know why the twins are Wards of Court. It was only meant to be in the event the McCanns were charged when they were made aguidos . Wouldn't you think the parents would want this lifted when their aquido status was lifted??? Technically , how can they act for the twins?
Panda, I don't think the twins are wards of court. Madeleine was made one shortly after she 'vanished.'

On a different note, i just had a thought about the 'personal' problem that caused the lady judge not to return after lunch.

maybe it was a child minding problem!

Maybe her minder texted to say she was sick/whatever and the lady judge unlike the Mccanns did not want to leave her child/children home alone.

We are told the problem will not affect the scheduled dates next week and you could not say that if the judge was ill.

Your'e quite right James, my mistake.. I still don't understand why the McCanns did not apply to the Court when their arguido status was lifted. As for the Judge bowing out of the afternoon session, maybe it was boredom or she couldn't bear to look at Kate making notes. Lisbon Libel Trial McCanns v Amaral - Page 14 294124

Lisbon Libel Trial McCanns v Amaral - Page 14 294124

**AnnaEsse** Sat 14 Sep - 11:10

jeanmonroe wrote:Oh dear, the things McCann expert witnessess say:

Mr Tricksy
"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."
________________________________________________________________________

Have you told that to the McCanns, Mr Tricksy?

Remind me, Mr Tricksy, where were those super protective parents when Madeleine was 'abducted'?

Surely not left all alone in the same room that Madeleine was 'abducted' from.

They too could have been 'abducted'

Yes, Mr Tricksy the parents certainly protected them all!

Don't these experts engage their brains before opening their mouths?

Yes, it's the parents' responsibility to protect the children. It is not the duty of the police officer who tried to find justice for their child who disappeared into thin air.

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