Daily Express....Fresh agony for Kate and Gerry McCann

tanszi wrote:did the SY really advise the Mcs not to attend.  don't tell me it was another call me Stu moment where there was little to achieve by their attending.  oh what was that about a media storm, isn't that what the McCs have always wanted from the start, and how could their presence damage the SY search for Madeleine.  jimo.

oh and the McCs will do what the police think is best.  pity they didn't do that in Portugal, where the police requested little publicity, that they not make a bit deal of Madeleines colomboma lest she be harmed because of it, oh and im sure that theres more jimo.

It is patent nonsense. The request by SY to the Portugese authorities is under the existing laws on co-operation and the degree of compliance by the Portugese determined by their laws. To suggest any media circus (if it happened) would damage the relationship is disingenuous. If the law provides for the investigation to move forward it will move forward bound by the legal frameword.

Thanks to Candyfloss over on Jill's

A link to last year where it had already been said the McC's wouldn't be attending

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/271373/McCanns-will-miss-cop-s-trial



McCanns will miss cop’s trial

THE parents of Madeleine McCann will avoid a showdown with a former police chief who wrongly claimed they lied about their daughter’s disappearance.



By Daily Star reporter/Published 9th September 2012



Kate and Gerry McCann are hoping to win a £1million libel payout from disgraced Goncalo Amaral, who they say has made their life hell.

But the McCanns, both 44, are staying away from this week’s trial in the Portuguese capital Lisbon.

Mr Amaral, 55, is attending the four-day hearing, which is scheduled to start on Thursday.

Kate and Gerry branded the ex-officer “poisonous” for claiming in a once-banned book that Maddie is dead and that they lied about her disappearance.

Their daughter vanished in Praia da Luz, Portugal, five years ago, aged three.

The McCanns’ lawyer Isabel Duarte said yesterday: “Kate and Gerry are not needed in Portugal for the trial.”

She said they were confident of victory, adding: “We reasonably expect compensation for the dreadful damages this book has brought the family.”

Any payout will be spent entirely on the continuing global search for Maddie, the couple said.

Mr Amaral led the bungled investigation but was sacked for criticising British police.

Kate wrote in her 2011 book Madeleine: “That man has caused us so much upset and anger.”

Yes, but that was then..and this is now..

As I have said previously.....how can the the McCanns NOT attend a Trial where they are the instigators ? What is Amaral's Lawyer supposed to work with? Who can he question? Will the McCanns provide written evidence that they and their 3 yr old twins suffered as a result of reading the Book published in Portugese? Will the McCanns be able to prove that the Book hindered the search for Madeleine when they know full well the number of "sightings" around the World and published in every Newspaper can be produced by Amaral's Lawyer?

I really am baffled as to just what kind of Trial this is, it seems you can accuse someone of Libel wait 2 yrs before going to Court but not have to physically be in Court to answer questions........ if the Judge doesn't demand their presence where's the Justice. ?

Panda wrote:
As I have said previously.....how can the the McCanns NOT attend a Trial where they are the instigators ?  What is Amaral's Lawyer supposed to work with?  Who can he question? Will the McCanns provide written evidence that they and their 3 yr old twins suffered as a result of reading the Book published in Portugese? Will the McCanns be able to prove that the Book hindered the search for Madeleine when they know full well the number of "sightings" around the World and published in every Newspaper can be produced by Amaral's Lawyer?

I really am baffled as to just what kind of Trial this is, it seems you can accuse someone of Libel wait 2 yrs before going to Court but not have to physically be in Court to answer questions........ if the Judge doesn't demand their presence where's the Justice. ?

Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death, disposed of the cadaver and then staged an abduction scene. The McCann’s have taking him to court on the basis that the book is defamatory and damages their reputation, and also the search for Madeleine. The allegations made in the book speak for themselves and the McCann’s have nothing further to prove, or questions to answer. The onus is entirely on Mr Amaral to substantiate his accusations. In libel, the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.

Palmeras16 wrote:

Panda wrote:
As I have said previously.....how can the the McCanns NOT attend a Trial where they are the instigators ?  What is Amaral's Lawyer supposed to work with?  Who can he question? Will the McCanns provide written evidence that they and their 3 yr old twins suffered as a result of reading the Book published in Portugese? Will the McCanns be able to prove that the Book hindered the search for Madeleine when they know full well the number of "sightings" around the World and published in every Newspaper can be produced by Amaral's Lawyer?

I really am baffled as to just what kind of Trial this is, it seems you can accuse someone of Libel wait 2 yrs before going to Court but not have to physically be in Court to answer questions........ if the Judge doesn't demand their presence where's the Justice. ?

Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death, disposed of the cadaver and then staged an abduction scene. The McCann’s have taking him to court on the basis that the book is defamatory and damages their reputation, and also the search for Madeleine. The allegations made in the book speak for themselves and the McCann’s have nothing further to prove, or questions to answer. The onus is entirely on Mr Amaral to substantiate his accusations. In libel, the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.

Morning Palmeras16, but the McCanns claimed damages of E1 million which I understand was sequestered so it is up to them to prove that they suffered ill health , that his allegations hindered the search for Madeleine etc. You can't just accuse someone without offering proof that your accusation is right and tbat you are so confident you demand a sequester of their money. It would be like me calling you a liar and saying I suffered because of it but not having to produce evidence that you lied .

Palmeras16 wrote:

Panda wrote:
As I have said previously.....how can the the McCanns NOT attend a Trial where they are the instigators ?  What is Amaral's Lawyer supposed to work with?  Who can he question? Will the McCanns provide written evidence that they and their 3 yr old twins suffered as a result of reading the Book published in Portugese? Will the McCanns be able to prove that the Book hindered the search for Madeleine when they know full well the number of "sightings" around the World and published in every Newspaper can be produced by Amaral's Lawyer?

I really am baffled as to just what kind of Trial this is, it seems you can accuse someone of Libel wait 2 yrs before going to Court but not have to physically be in Court to answer questions........ if the Judge doesn't demand their presence where's the Justice. ?

Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death, disposed of the cadaver and then staged an abduction scene. The McCann’s have taking him to court on the basis that the book is defamatory and damages their reputation, and also the search for Madeleine. The allegations made in the book speak for themselves and the McCann’s have nothing further to prove, or questions to answer. The onus is entirely on Mr Amaral to substantiate his accusations. In libel, the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.

Actually no, he did not, but then facts have never exactly been your strong point, have they. And I think you'll find the onus is on the McCanns to prove their case, as they are the ones who instigated the trial. Where in the name of G-d do you get that Amaral is "guilty until proven innocent"? Or does that only work for your heroes?

I think maybe the McCanns were surprised that Amaral won his case when he appealed . Amaral and the Book Publisher could sue the McCanns Lawyer for not handing the books back until ordered to by a Judge, I'm surprised they didn't. I just hope Amaral has a good Lawyer .

Panda wrote:

I think maybe the McCanns were surprised that Amaral won his case when he appealed . Amaral and the  Book Publisher could sue the McCanns Lawyer for not handing the books back until ordered to by a Judge, I'm surprised they didn't. I just hope Amaral has a good Lawyer .

Morning Panda,

Yes I think they were very surprised Dr Amaral won his case when he appealed.  They were badly advised (imo) and were thoroughly poised for triumph and exultation, but instead they got hammered mercilessly by the facts and three wise judges, and slunk off pathetically with their tails between their legs.  

This time around, they KNOW they will tank abysmally (imo), and pinky is busy writing his toss-off spin to diminish the negative effects, but the truth will forever stalk them no matter how many high-priced teams they hire to counteract it.  

Viva Goncalo Amaral, and may God bless him and guide him to victory!

The bit about libel case defendants being guilty until proved innocent does seem to be relevant under UK law if this website is correct.
 
http://www.libelreform.org/our-report

I can't of course say if the same is true of Portuguese law but I'm sure that someone else will know.

Palmeras16 wrote:

Panda wrote:
As I have said previously.....how can the the McCanns NOT attend a Trial where they are the instigators ?  What is Amaral's Lawyer supposed to work with?  Who can he question? Will the McCanns provide written evidence that they and their 3 yr old twins suffered as a result of reading the Book published in Portugese? Will the McCanns be able to prove that the Book hindered the search for Madeleine when they know full well the number of "sightings" around the World and published in every Newspaper can be produced by Amaral's Lawyer?

I really am baffled as to just what kind of Trial this is, it seems you can accuse someone of Libel wait 2 yrs before going to Court but not have to physically be in Court to answer questions........ if the Judge doesn't demand their presence where's the Justice. ?

Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death, disposed of the cadaver and then staged an abduction scene. The McCann’s have taking him to court on the basis that the book is defamatory and damages their reputation, and also the search for Madeleine. The allegations made in the book speak for themselves and the McCann’s have nothing further to prove, or questions to answer. The onus is entirely on Mr Amaral to substantiate his accusations. In libel, the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.

First of all, Gonçalo Amaral never claimed that the McCanns caused their daughter's death. In the report of September 2007 the police stated that in their mind it was an unfortunate accident. Furthermore, under Portuguese law the onus is on the plaintiff to prove his accusations. Don't forget that UK law does not apply in Portugal.

Palmeras16 wrote:
Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death,

______________________________________________________

Could you please substantiate what your evidence is for stating that?

Not 'hearsay' but your irrefutable proof, beyond contestation, that Mr Amaral claimed that the McCanns CAUSED their daughters death?

Thankyou.

BTW Palmeras, please bear in mind that GA COULD sue YOU for stating that.(unless you have absolute PROOF that he did say that)
Just a thought.

Carolina wrote:

Palmeras16 wrote:

Panda wrote:
As I have said previously.....how can the the McCanns NOT attend a Trial where they are the instigators ?  What is Amaral's Lawyer supposed to work with?  Who can he question? Will the McCanns provide written evidence that they and their 3 yr old twins suffered as a result of reading the Book published in Portugese? Will the McCanns be able to prove that the Book hindered the search for Madeleine when they know full well the number of "sightings" around the World and published in every Newspaper can be produced by Amaral's Lawyer?

I really am baffled as to just what kind of Trial this is, it seems you can accuse someone of Libel wait 2 yrs before going to Court but not have to physically be in Court to answer questions........ if the Judge doesn't demand their presence where's the Justice. ?

Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death, disposed of the cadaver and then staged an abduction scene. The McCann’s have taking him to court on the basis that the book is defamatory and damages their reputation, and also the search for Madeleine. The allegations made in the book speak for themselves and the McCann’s have nothing further to prove, or questions to answer. The onus is entirely on Mr Amaral to substantiate his accusations. In libel, the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.

First of all, Gonçalo Amaral never claimed that the McCanns caused their daughter's death. In the report of September 2007 the police stated that in their mind it was an unfortunate accident. Furthermore, under Portuguese law the onus is on the plaintiff to prove his accusations. Don't forget that UK law does not apply in Portugal.

Well said Carolina

In my opinion, if there was anything defamatory in Goncalo Amaral's book, the Appeals and Supreme Court Judges, would have not have overturned the banning of the book. I've always been led to believe that, whatever is written in Dr Amaral's book, is based on information in the PJ files.

The McCanns didn't have a problem with Dr Amaral's book, when it first went on sale. They were asked if they had read the book, they said they had and it was a load of rubbish. It was only when Dr Amaral's book, became a best seller and the McCanns were aware that he had made quite a lot of money from the book, that the McCanns pounced. He had money, they wanted that money and they were prepared to stoop as low as they could, to get that money. The McCanns did want Dr Amaral's share of his house, the house his ex wife and children live in. I don't know if this is still the case.

What I do know is that the McCanns, have proved they have no scruples were money is concerned, they've been using Madeleine's money for their own means, since the fund was set up, shortly after Madeleine disappeared.

I sincerely hope that when the lawsuit gets underway, the McCanns are told they have to give evidence, whether it is in person or via video link. If the McCanns do have to give evidence, I hope they are cross examined by Dr Amaral and/or by his lawyer. I hope that the McCanns are asked to give reasons why they are suing Dr Amaral. If they state, people who read the book, wouldn't look for Madeleine, I hope they are asked, why they have never looked for her and why their private detectives haven't looked for her. The McCanns need to be told once and for all, that they were responsible for looking for Madeleine, not the general public.

Andy Redwood, is also telling people to keep their eyes open for Madeleine. What the hell are Redwood and his team doing to find Madeleine? In my eyes they're doing nothing, but looking for a scapegoat to blame for Madeleine's disappearance. I will always believe this, until Scotland Yard, make the McCanns persons of interest to them and they are eventually brought to justice. The McCanns have never been cleared of any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, because they were never charged with any offence regarding her disappearance.

I know nothing about the Portuguese law, but I'm hoping that charges can still be brought against the McCanns. If this happens, I hope the PJ, tell the British Government, to 'Go forth and multiply' if they try to intervene, like they did in 2007.

Good luck to Dr Amaral. Does anyone have an email address for Dr Amaral, where people including myself,  can send good luck messages to him?

Not Born Yesterday wrote:The bit about libel case defendants being guilty until proved innocent does seem to be relevant under UK law if this website is correct.
 
http://www.libelreform.org/our-report

I can't of course say if the same is true of Portuguese law but I'm sure that someone else will know.

When that nutty lawyer, who scarpered to Brazil, was sued for defamation by Amaral, nutty lawyer won. The judgement was that nutty lawyer truly believed what he had said and so it wasn't libel or defamation.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Not Born Yesterday wrote:The bit about libel case defendants being guilty until proved innocent does seem to be relevant under UK law if this website is correct.
 
http://www.libelreform.org/our-report

I can't of course say if the same is true of Portuguese law but I'm sure that someone else will know.

When that nutty lawyer, who scarpered to Brazil, was sued for defamation by Amaral, nutty lawyer won. The judgement was that nutty lawyer truly believed what he had said and so it wasn't libel or defamation.

So, if Mr A says he truly believes what he has said about this case, where does that leave the McCanns 'claim' of libel or defamation?

JM, hopefully in a part of their anatomy where the sun doesn't shine!!
 
As regards contacting Goncalo Amaral, for those on Facebook he's registered there as Goncalo De Sousa Amaral.

Not Born Yesterday wrote:The bit about libel case defendants being guilty until proved innocent does seem to be relevant under UK law if this website is correct.
 
http://www.libelreform.org/our-report

I can't of course say if the same is true of Portuguese law but I'm sure that someone else will know.

It's not, obviously.

Hi NBY



1. In libel, the defendant is guilty until proven innocent



We recommend: Require the claimant to demonstrate damage and falsity




2. English libel law is more about making money than saving a reputation



We recommend: Cap damages at £10,000
===========================================

Reading this "We recommend............. Cap Damages, £10,000, pity this wasn't in place when the Tapas 9 sued the Express.

The Final Report says there are 4 options as to what happened to Madeleine, one was that she died in 5a which is why Amaral won the appeal . Since after 6 years there is no evidence that she is alive , that point should still stand. How can they claim it made them ill and the twins when it was published in Portugese ???

The Libel trial will be held mostly in Portuguese?

pennylane wrote:The Libel trial will be held mostly in Portuguese?

If, IF, only 'relatives' turn up in Lisbon will they be staying at the same 5 STAR hotel that the McCanns used, only because it was convienient you understand, and if so who will be paying for that?
Surely not the 'fund'?
I can't imagine handicapped childrens 'donations' to the Madeleine 'fund' being spent on lavish accomodation for McCann relatives would go down to well.
Relatives, i might add, that have no direct bearing relating to the libel trial.

But hey, when have the WIDER family ever worried about using the 'fund' money 'donations' for their support?

ETA: How many of Philomenas, past and present, students believe a word she says, or has said, having had the opportunity to read the 'files' without her standing over them?
Is Philomena still asking for 'donations' from students for her brother's private ltd company?

pennylane wrote:The Libel trial will be held mostly in Portuguese?

Hi pennylane....long time since you have been posting , glad to see you are O.K.

It's like being on a rollercoaster this case. Here we are , all geared up to see the McCanns get their comeuppance and I think there is a definite spanner in the works and I think it was kitti who drew attention to it.

Why did Redwood say he thought there was a good chance Madeleine was alive? ? There was no new evidence to support that because he is dredging up from the Files which gave little indication that Madeleine was alive. To extend the search and spend more money he surely had to satisfy Theresa May and Cameron that it was necessary, ergo, either he does have such evidence or there has been the most almighty protection by Government in history.

If the Trial is postponed the Portugese Judge will be seen as colluding .

@ jeanmonroe
IIRC they were going to (or at least hoping to) give their evidence via video link rather than in person.
Although whether this facility has been officially granted to them I know not.

jeanmonroe wrote:Palmeras16 wrote:
Mr Amaral wrote a book claiming the McCann’s caused their daughter’s death,

______________________________________________________

Could you please substantiate what your evidence is for stating that?

Not 'hearsay' but your irrefutable proof, beyond contestation, that Mr Amaral claimed that the McCanns CAUSED their daughters death?

Thankyou.

BTW Palmeras, please bear in mind that GA COULD sue YOU for stating that.(unless you have absolute PROOF that he did say that)
Just a thought.

In the final chapter of the book, Mr Amaral highlights the conclusions of the investigation:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

5. The evidence proves the parents' negligence concerning the care and safety of the children.

In summary: possible accidental death with contributory negligence by the parents, plus concealment of a cadaver and the simulation of an abduction.

Palmeras16

"probably involved" "may have" does NOT add up to your claim that he wrote in a book that "the McCanns CAUSED their daughter's death"

However, you may be right that the McCanns were indeed 'the cause' of her 'disappearance' due to them creating the conditions for a possible disappearance to take place.
They diliberately, consciously, left the apartment unlocked, they went totally out of sight of their THREE children, and they didn't check on their THREE children for at least 35 minutes, according to THEIR own 'testamony'
If anyone was the CAUSE of Madeleine's 'disappearance' then it was her very own PARENTS.
If they had been THERE, with the THREE kids in the apartment, she wouldn't have gone 'missing' would she?
If they had hired a babysitter she wouldn't have gone 'missing' would she?
If they had taken the THREE kids with them to the Tapas she wouldn't have gone 'missing' would she?
No, i'm afraid, the one and ONLY cause why she is 'missing' is totally her own PARENTS fault.
NOBODY elses.
Writing something in a book, is NOT the CAUSE Madeleine went 'missing' is it?
Don't you agree?