A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

I think it goes back to the same problem the PJ had - all the evidence shows them one thing, their experience and knowledge gained over many years in their line of work tells them the same thing, but having enough physical evidence to firstly get the CPS to agree to prosecute, then successfully prosecuting, is a totally different ball game.

Coupled with all of those hurdles, we know without doubt there was, let us call it outside interference, which benefited the MCCanns. If the current team of detectives are fine upstanding citizens and wish to honestly solve this mystery, then they have to have much more than a standard watertight case. It needs to go one step further than beyond reasonable doubt.

I am not living in a parallel universe and absolutely acknowledge the potential for a whitewash. I would just like to give the detectives the benefit of the doubt until such time as I know for certain it has gone in that direction.

2007 in some ways was not long ago, in other ways it is a lifetime. Things have changed so much in such a short period of time, not least the progression of social media. This has played a large part in the recent spate of publicising of cover ups and scandals, those who enabled cover ups are becoming more wary. People will be less likely to put their neck out as a favour for a friend of a friend.

I think it could yet turn out that the most important piece of work the PJ did in this case was shelving it. The publication of the files was a stroke of genius something we should be very grateful for. SY know they have to disprove, satisfactorily, everything that is there. They know people will only be fobbed off with miracles like the crèche man once, they know they cannot continue to produce such amazing revelations or this case will never ever go away.

The PJ did not have a body, neither do SY. If they did, case closed, so they have to look and think outside the box very carefully.

It's going to be a waiting game, but people here are used to that. Just don't let frustration totally damn all of the police officers working on the case now, or else we are little better than those who damn the PJ and their work.

Trust needs to be earned and I know little has been done to instill trust in the system but I have to believe the majority of people are good, otherwise we should turn off the lights and abandon ship.

So think pink every time you read a newspaper from now on and wait and see what Redwood has to say for himself.

The McCanns could have been charged with neglect, or neglect causing harm which after a time was obvious. The Portugese Prosecutor asked a Judge if there was enough evidence to go to Trial and the Judge said "show me the body" which is the crux of this investigation surely, to find Madeleine's body . The dingo Baby was a similar case , the Parents were not believed , divorced , and years later a blood stained cardigan was found in the Outback and If you remember Jon Benet's case the Parents were villified and were forced to leave the State mossman. The Review and Investigation will be proved fruitless and it has been the McCanns demands that instigated it, not the British Government . The McCanns had £2 million in the Fund by Christmas 2007, yet instead of employing Private investigators with experience of searching for missing children, they squandered money on Investigators more experiencd ar money laundering. Theri arrogance is astounding.!!!

I know Panda but they were never prosecuted with neglect not least because they were protected. All I am saying is it is not over yet rather than driving myself crazy trying to read between the lines of half baked press reports and second guess what the police are or are not doing.

Things take time and yes it is going on and on and on, but the upshot is if they think she died at the hand of someone that she was with on holiday, under normal circumstances they would have a hard time proving it without a body. Add all of the outside interference to the mix and it is doubly difficult.

They will not have a second chance at this, it is all or nothing. The amount of money being spent is at a ridiculous level, there must surely be somebody somewhere who considers it justifiable. Otherwise why not carry out the review then say we have reviewed it, we haven't a clue, yes she was abducted but we cannot afford to spend anymore time on money on this. It is unsolvable. They could also have made up a likely scenario whilst reviewing it and hand it back to the Portugese telling them to solve it. We know their stance on it, so they could always lay the blame for inaction at their doorstep.

There were surely quicker, easier and cheaper ways to whitewash whilst it was still a review. Why are they bothering to carry on ? They did not have to progress the review any further. All they have done now is open a whole can of worms and given many more people more information which puts the parents in a bad light. Half the world have never heard of the Smiths, they do now.

The more people being involved in this, the more information being publicised, the bigger chance of somebody somewhere spilling the beans. A dangerous way to cover things up.

mossman wrote:I know Panda but they were never prosecuted with neglect not least because they were protected.  All I am saying is it is not over yet rather than driving myself crazy trying to read between the lines of half baked press reports and second guess what the police are or are not doing.

Things take time and yes it is going on and on and on, but the upshot is if they think she died at the hand of someone that she was with on holiday, under normal circumstances they would have a hard time proving it without a body.  Add all of the outside interference to the mix and it is doubly difficult.

They will not have a second chance at this, it is all or nothing.  The amount of money being spent is at a ridiculous level, there must surely be somebody somewhere who considers it justifiable.  Otherwise why not carry out the review then say we have reviewed it, we haven't a clue, yes she was abducted but we cannot afford to spend anymore time on money on this.  It is unsolvable.  They could also have made up a likely scenario whilst reviewing it and hand it back to the Portugese telling them to solve it.  We know their stance on it, so they could always lay the blame for inaction at their doorstep.  

There were surely quicker, easier and cheaper ways to whitewash whilst it was still a review.  Why are they bothering to carry on ?  They did not have to progress the review any further.  All they have done now is open a whole can of worms and given many more people more information which puts the parents in a bad light.  Half the world have never heard of the Smiths, they do now.

The more people being involved in this, the more information being publicised, the bigger chance of somebody somewhere spilling the beans.  A dangerous way to cover things up.

Maybe at the end of the day mossman, Redwood will prove more canny than I give him credit for, softly softly catchee monkey approach. The problem remains though that without a body, nothing can be  proved. Why did SY think an unvestigation would prove more fruitful, they had already read all the information in the files ?

Panda, I would not bet against you:kiss: 

mossman wrote:Panda, I would not bet against you:kiss: 

mossman, I can't help thinking that Redwood is clutching at straws, he made the big mistake initially of becoming too friendly with the McCanns, giving them a Report on progress, that presupposed they were innocent in his eyes so he tainted the investigation from the beginning , see what I mean??

We have had a few discussions on here before now about the Smith sighting and I never believed that the way a Father holds his child is sufficient evidence to implicate Gerry. For what it's worth I believe Madeleine died in 5a accidentally and was hidden in Gerry's Tennis bag until he had a chance to dispose of it. Wasn't there a rumour that Gerry asked to borrow Murat's Car to go to the Chemist and get some Medicine for one of the children , can anyone remember this?

Thought part of Crimewatch would be an appeal for mobile phone numbers that were forensically found to be around the "hotspots" in the days leading up to & including 'abduction' night...but alas No
Maybe part of the CW reconstruction was giving known suspects(found through mobile phone forensic timelines)the chance to come forward & rule themselves out...was it a stroke of genius by Redwood in asking "SmithMan" to come forward & rule himself out of inquiries whilst Gerry was sat feet away?

matthew wrote:Thought part of Crimewatch would be an appeal for mobile phone numbers that were forensically found to be around the "hotspots" in the days leading up to & including 'abduction' night...but alas No
Maybe part of the CW reconstruction was giving known suspects(found through mobile phone forensic timelines)the chance to come forward & rule themselves out...was it a stroke of genius by Redwood in asking "SmithMan" to come forward & rule himself out of inquiries whilst Gerry was sat feet away?

Hi matthew, I don't remember that bit? Smith was never considered a suspect, more like a Witness. At roughly 10pm Smith passes a Man carrying a child and then months later seeing someone carrying their child in the same way at an Airport is a bit thin to suggest it was the same man. ie Gerry. There were 11 children in the Creche that night could have been any Father passing Smith. To carry any child on one side is easier than in both arms and gives a free arm if needed.

If the "abductor" passed the Smiths & he had a mobile phone on him then SY have or will be finding locations of where mobile phones were at that exact time...just hope the "abductor" had his phone on him.. iykwim
11 children in the OC creche had no right being carried down that road towards the beach & the Smiths sighting witnessed the child being carried upright...TannerMan was carrying the child with arms outstretched

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13386785

4 October: Scotland Yard detectives say mobile phone records may hold the key to solving the case. There are 41 potential suspects, they say.

Justice will prevail.

If Mr Redwood has been really smart with the Smithman announcement, he will have had (whilst he was speaking) a rogue camera trained upon the Rothley Two in their part of the studio, the footage being retained afterwards for analysis of body language/reactions.
I might have gone even further than that, with a bug in the studio's green room!

As for the phone data, I sometimes get the gut feeling that whatever SY tell us they are going to do has probably already been done. Maybe they already know which phone users are in the frame, and therefore the mere mention of the 'proposed' analysis might get certain people singing like canaries. (A bit like how terrorists can instil fear just by threatening rather than actual attacks).

I find what Redwood did not mention much more interesting

If SY had been doing their job as they are trained to do, with the evidence they have they would have arrested the gruesome twosome in the first six months. It is just a charade and yes I think AR is taking the part of the village idiot. To be honest he looks and sounds it. Surely no man would make himself and his team look so daft without instruction!!!!  

http://www.forensic-access.co.uk/cell-site-analysis-mobile-phones.asp

to locate a mobile phone to a specific geographical location at a specific time (or not being at that location)
to track a mobile phone’s movement over a specific time

wait & see if the "abductor" had his mobile phone with him 10pm 3 May 2007
& hopefully he can explain where he was leading up to the "abduction" when he said he was in location A...when in fact he was in location B
...of course the "real abductor" could have used his phone to implicate him  

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/437948/Is-this-the-moment-of-Madeleine-McCann-s-kidnapping

The Sunday Express has all but spilt the beans! Wonderful to see that the truth is almost out!  

Panda wrote:

DavidA wrote:

Panda wrote:Like all of you I have been trying to understand what is going on here, the ups and downs and I can't make up my mind whether Redwood is the village idiot or a very clever Detective slowly unravelling this complicated case. The Press are at fever pitch with their reporting , especially, sky and the Sun, both owned by Murdoch ., the Sun being instrumental in persuading Cameron to order an investigation.

answers on a Postcard please. 

In my opinion it is not right to call him an idiot or other names. He may have had to take this case and not wanted it. If he does have some suspicion about the McCanns, he and his team would have to be very careful. Imagine what would happen if any accusation was made without 100% evidence? Their jobs would be finished.

We are in a different position because we can say our theories about the events, but he can not.

But the main things in my opinion that made the abduction story unbelievable are very obvious things, very simple things. For example, the apparent family problems before the holiday (airport bus and fact this video was kept and released), the very small amount of holiday photos when they had digital cameras (especially from the 3rd), leaving the children on the 3rd after the crying for no good reason (I do not believe even bad parents would take this risk of more crying being heard). Plus the strange behavior of the McCanns that many people noticed.

I think if someone is a detective, they would naturally notice these things and would consider anything strange to be important. So I do not believe any detective would consider it 100% sure that the McCanns were not involved. So whatever we see on television or in newspapers. I believe they will also be looking carefully at the McCanns.

Morning David 1, What bothers me though is the fact that 37 Detectives and 5 Clerical Staff have spent over 2 years and £5 million on this investigation and come up with virtually nothing. It's not even as if they had to start from scratch, all the information was in the Files prepared by the Portugese.

Wow Panda , I didn't realise you knew exactly what they were upto and were subject to regular briefings?  

This is the same amount of money it costs to guard the embassy Julian assange is wholed up in.
Beef mince now costs nearly five pounds. Prices go up all he time.
You can only judge it when it is over. They could have easily shut up shop ages ago but haven't.

I also don't think he has been 'friendly' with them as opposed to professional.

matthew wrote:http://www.forensic-access.co.uk/cell-site-analysis-mobile-phones.asp

 to locate a mobile phone to a specific geographical location at a specific time (or not being at that location)
 to track a mobile phone’s movement over a specific time

wait & see if the "abductor" had his mobile phone with him 10pm 3 May 2007
& hopefully he can explain where he was leading up to the "abduction" when he said he was in location A...when in fact he was in location B
...of course the "real abductor" could have used his phone to implicate him  

Morning matthew, I fell asleep and missed the 8.30pm showing of the sky programme , but they are showing it again tonight ....really going to Town about the McCanns aren't they:haha: 

This snippet is from the Express Report:-

Mr Smith’s wife Mary said: “We saw a man carrying a blonde child. It was just such a normal thing to see in a holiday resort – we didn’t think anything of it at the time.”

In 2008 Mr Smith worked on e-fit images, which were released on the BBC’s Crimewatch programme last week. Detectives from Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange have had over 2,400 calls and emails since the programme last Monday"

So......the Portugese organised the EFit picture, not SY as we were led to believe!!!! Just what the Hell have SY and Redwood in particular been doing for the last 2 years ???? I bet the phone calls they are talking about are the ones the PJ commissioned , the ones the Prosecutor asked a Court if the information could be used in a Trial, the Court said it would be too intrusive. When a Child's life/welfare is at stake I thought that a strange decision at the time.

I want to know where have the e-fits come from. We were first led to believe they were in the investigators files un-used, ergo the investigators were responsible for them.

In his statement Smith said Kennedy asked him to do a photo fit and he refused.

So did he change his mind later and was there a subsequent meeting with him and MCCann representatives or did the investigators draw it based on his first statement and description in the PJ files.

Amaral is very clear that Smith did not return to Portugal during his tenure, nor afterwards.

That article says they were done in 2008 but it still does not say by whom.

I would also like to know why SY are using e-fits possibly prepared under the direction or instruction of another outside party and in actual fact possibly paid for by the man who the witness identified.

wonder how many years this will go on? and at what part will portugal and the uk stand side by side in a press statement and say no more enough is enough

winjoy wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/437948/Is-this-the-moment-of-Madeleine-McCann-s-kidnapping

The Sunday Express has all but spilt the beans!   Wonderful to see that the truth is almost out!   

(Sometimes this forum is strange. This post above contains an interesting link, very relevant to the thread but all the following posts continue disregarding it)

It is fascinating to see the Express newspaper going so close to the line, which they already lost a court case for apparently crossing before. They are making a indirect but very evident reference that it was Gerry who was seen.

DavidA wrote:

winjoy wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/437948/Is-this-the-moment-of-Madeleine-McCann-s-kidnapping

The Sunday Express has all but spilt the beans!   Wonderful to see that the truth is almost out!   

(Sometimes this forum is strange. This post above contains an interesting link, very relevant to the thread but all the following posts continue disregarding it)

It is fascinating to see the Express newspaper going so close to the line, which they already lost a court case for apparently crossing before. They are making a indirect but very evident reference that it was Gerry who was seen.

I'm not disregarding it, I am still thinking about it. I have said on this forum before, the only publication I think there may be a hint of the truth ever published in is the Express. Indeed, I look forward to their tongue in cheek carefully placed other headlines they often print when headlining a McCann story.

Anything that is considered a serious report needs thinking about and reading a few times. It is easy to comment immediately on other publications.

I have just been reading that article and came to the same conclusion - that James Murray went as far as he could in the circumstances.
Mr Desmond's bank account is safe this time, but it's still a job very well done.

Panda wrote:
So......the Portugese organised the EFit picture, not SY as we were led to believe!!!! Just what the Hell have SY and Redwood in particular been doing for the last 2 years ????  I bet the phone calls they are talking about are the ones the PJ commissioned , the ones the Prosecutor asked a Court if the information could be used in a Trial, the Court said it would be too intrusive. When a Child's life/welfare is at stake I thought that a strange decision at the time.

I believe it was the McC's PI's who had the e-fit pics done. Metodo 3 I think? SY probably found them in the files they took away.

wjk wrote:

Panda wrote:
So......the Portugese organised the EFit picture, not SY as we were led to believe!!!! Just what the Hell have SY and Redwood in particular been doing for the last 2 years ????  I bet the phone calls they are talking about are the ones the PJ commissioned , the ones the Prosecutor asked a Court if the information could be used in a Trial, the Court said it would be too intrusive. When a Child's life/welfare is at stake I thought that a strange decision at the time.

I believe it was the McC's PI's who had the e-fit pics done. Metodo 3 I think? SY probably found them in the files they took away.

Did Mr Smith actually speak to the PI's? Or are they not Mr Smith's efit's at all?

I don't know Angelina, I'm searching madly to try and find the link where I read it.
It may have been on Jill's.