A Dissection of the EBook about the McCanns

Panda wrote:

kitti wrote:Lisa Irwin....

Thanks kitti, that was a similar case wasn't it, "abduction" , wasn't she a bit of a drinker and fell asleep.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/09/24/haleigh-cummings-missing-nancy-grace-mysteries-background

Haleigh Cummings perhaps? Still missing, boyfriend worked nights.

Cadaver odor found next to parents bed in Lisa Irwin case.

jinvta wrote:

Panda wrote:

kitti wrote:Lisa Irwin....

Thanks kitti, that was a similar case wasn't it, "abduction" , wasn't she a bit of a drinker and fell asleep.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/09/24/haleigh-cummings-missing-nancy-grace-mysteries-background

Haleigh Cummings perhaps? Still missing, boyfriend worked nights.

Cadaver odor found next to parents bed in Lisa Irwin case.

Thanks jinvta, you all amaze me the way you find stuff.LOL

So at the end of the day, no matter what we think , as the Portugese Judge said when the Prosecutor asked if there was enough evidence to go to Court, "show me the body".

US cops had much more on Casey Anthony around her lies and stories when Caylee went missing and the only thing they were holding her for was child neglect I think, for losing Caylee - until they had the body they did not charge her with murder and she led cops on a merry chase.

With all the furor around the case it doesn't surprise me that the judge would want a body or evidence of a body that would stand up in court prior to charging anyone.

I don't think its ever been said that a Prosecutor said, 'show me the body'.

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/debunking-myth-show-me-body-and-prove.html

A body is not needed, as we know

fuzeta wrote:A body is not needed, as we know

Not needed but with all the witnesses saying Gerry was at the table etc all night apart from one trip to the apt which was witnessed by Jez Wilkins, it's pretty tough to go and win on what they had.

wjk wrote:I don't think its ever been said that a Prosecutor said, 'show me the body'.

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/debunking-myth-show-me-body-and-prove.html

Hi kitti , it was not connected with Gerry, it was the Portugese Prosecutor who asked a Judge if there was enough evidence to go to Court, and the judge said "show me the body". I did read it myself. 

fuzeta wrote:A body is not needed, as we know

I'm not so sure about that fuzeta, on what grounds would you not need a body? Do you remember years ago a Woman who went missing in the Lake District ? 16 years later, her body was found and her Husband charged with Murder.

Was the Suzanne Pilley case not a recent conviction without a body and cadaver dog evidence ? Sorry if I have the surname spelt incorrectly.

I think what will be important though is what Portugese Law states as a requirement and what has happened in the past. I cannot envisage a trial in UK, I think it would be Portugal.

Panda wrote:

fuzeta wrote:A body is not needed, as we know

I'm not so sure about that fuzeta, on what grounds would you not need a body?  Do you remember years ago a Woman who went missing in the Lake District ? 16 years later, her body was found and her Husband charged with Murder.

That was in the UK as Mossman says besides a woman could go missing and not be reported for days so the exact time of disappearance would be blurred and the husband could have been in the frame but not enough to bring him to trial unless her body was found. Which you just stated it was. So they didn't get him for 16 years. He could have had alibi for the time of disappearance but the actual time was another day or later in the day than his alibi.

I think without a body, a witness, a confession and with a lot of confusion about timelines and alibis being provided for McCanns that night, that unless they have something very damning it would be unlikely to bring someone to trial to lose and then be held out for being a "banana republic" etc. TM had a lot of help in making sure that would be the case in this case, lawyers, investigators, press, Gordon Brown calling to see if they had found the abductor, etc.

people have been convicted of murder without a body being found. It has happened in the Uk.

fuzeta wrote:people have been convicted of murder without a body being found.  It has happened in the Uk.

I think that's what the McCanns are ultimately banking on to save themselves: no body.

There are several cases of people convicted of murder in Portugal without bodies being found.

Claudia79 wrote:There are several cases of people convicted of murder in Portugal without bodies being found.

I thought that was so Claudia, I was going to ask you about it. I was going to say Joana Cipriana which was a case with no body but then I remembered that the Mother and Uncle confessed in the end. Although if I remember right the Mother retracted her confession

fuzeta wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:There are several cases of people convicted of murder in Portugal without bodies being found.

I thought that was so Claudia, I was going to ask you about it.  I was going to say Joana Cipriana which was a case with no body but then I remembered that the Mother and Uncle confessed in the end.  Although if I remember right the Mother retracted her confession

I wasn't even thinking about that one. There are others. There was quite a recent one where the arguido was convicted to the maximum penalty (25 years) for three murders and none of the bodies were found. He kept the phone of one or two of his victims to contact their families and make them think they were fine.

Claudia79 wrote:

fuzeta wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:There are several cases of people convicted of murder in Portugal without bodies being found.

I thought that was so Claudia, I was going to ask you about it.  I was going to say Joana Cipriana which was a case with no body but then I remembered that the Mother and Uncle confessed in the end.  Although if I remember right the Mother retracted her confession

I wasn't even thinking about that one. There are others. There was quite a recent one where the arguido was convicted to the maximum penalty (25 years) for three murders and none of the bodies were found. He kept the phone of one or two of his victims to contact their families and make them think they were fine.

Thanks Claudia : flower: 

fuzeta wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

fuzeta wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:There are several cases of people convicted of murder in Portugal without bodies being found.

I thought that was so Claudia, I was going to ask you about it.  I was going to say Joana Cipriana which was a case with no body but then I remembered that the Mother and Uncle confessed in the end.  Although if I remember right the Mother retracted her confession

I wasn't even thinking about that one. There are others. There was quite a recent one where the arguido was convicted to the maximum penalty (25 years) for three murders and none of the bodies were found. He kept the phone of one or two of his victims to contact their families and make them think they were fine.

Thanks Claudia : flower: 

 

This is another excerpt from the EBook..........SY must have read this when they did the review, it was made hours after Madeleine went missing.!!!!

Gerald McCann statement 4th May 2007 1.15am

...Thus at 9.05pm, the deponent entered the apartment ,, using his key the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition.
........At 10pm his wife Katie went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw straight away that the children' bedroom door was completely open , the window was also open , the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room , which as said earlier was never locked , was closed.

Kate McCann  statement 4th May 2007 2.15pm

At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children . She went into the apartment by the side door which was closed , but unlocked , as already said , and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open , while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

This must have raised suspicion with the Portugese Police from the start, why did they treat the McCanns with kid gloves?? I.m surprised Gerry didn't tell
Kate what to say before she was interviewed .

Panda wrote:This is another excerpt from the EBook..........SY must have read this when they did the review, it was made hours after Madeleine went missing.!!!!

Gerald McCann statement 4th May 2007 1.15am

...Thus at 9.05pm, the deponent entered the apartment ,, using his key the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition.
........At 10pm his wife Katie went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw straight away that the children' bedroom door was completely open , the window was also open , the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room , which as said earlier was never locked , was closed.

Kate McCann  statement 4th May 2007 2.15pm

At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children . She went into the apartment by the side door which was closed , but unlocked , as already said , and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open , while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

This must have raised suspicion with the Portugese Police from the start, why did they treat the McCanns with kid gloves?? I.m surprised Gerry didn't tell
Kate what to say before she was interviewed .

I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation for all that  

According to the EBook , it was a Dispatches programme that highlighted the discrepancies and which later Clarence made a statement suggesting that kate was so traumatised she couldn't remember exactly what she said .

This extract is about sedation.......August 2007

Q Do you think the twins were sedated?
A. There is no doubt (here he told an anecdote that Kate called a colleague of Goncarlo Amarals' in the PJ in August , to ask them to check the twins fro traces of sedation . Apparently Kate was alone when she called and a bit upset . That same afternoon , Gerry called and cancelled the request.

10th August. Gerry: "You know we're not gonna comment, on anything but you know there is absolutely no we we use sedative drugs or anything like that an' you know we have co-operated with the police and we'll answer any queries emmm.....any tests that they want to do."

I wonder how easy it was to read a book on the bed to the children in that bedroom with the shutters down and the curtains drawn, of course at 730 it's not that dark but I'd have thought since they had a story in there they'd have the shutters up if it were still light outside.

They said they left the shutters down all the time in there so it was "nice and dark" as the kids only used that room for sleep.

the maids say otherwise -

most people like a bit of light in the rooms during the day even if they are bedrooms

widowan wrote:I wonder how easy it was to read a book on the bed to the children in that bedroom with the shutters down and the curtains drawn, of course at 730 it's not that dark but I'd have thought since they had a story in there they'd have the shutters up if it were still light outside.

They said they left the shutters down all the time in there so it was "nice and dark" as the kids only used that room for sleep.

the maids say otherwise -

most people like a bit of light in the rooms during the day even if they are bedrooms

How could the maids clean a dark room? What about health and safety?

The maids would have put them up I assume. they must have done a bang up job cleaning their own fingerprints as there were only one set left inside, kate's.

When I clean my shades I usually catch hold of one side of them so they don't wiggle all around but stay still to be wiped. Maybe these weren't cleaned nor the windows cleaned but in any case I would think the maids would put them up if they were down, so they could see to clean - they said they were up or half way up in their PJ interview if I recall correctly - I guess the real abductor could have wiped the shades off even though he himself would have worn gloves?

This is another extract from the EBook:

THEY WERE NOT SEDATED OCTOBER 25/2007

New evidence in Madeleine McCann Case

She was very happy and very loved and I know Madeleine was pleased with her life . She is special, Kate McCann said.
The development of the Madeleine McCann case shows that the Portuguese Police did not have solid evidence for suspecting the McCann parents after all.

Forensic tests of Madeleine's brother and sister showed neither of them were sedated.

Anything that enters the blood-stream also enters the roots of hairs and stays in the same position as the hair grows. If there was nothing found in the hair , that's pretty clear cut - says Rachel Woods the general manager of TrichoTech, a private toxicology laboratory that carries out tests on behalf of the Home Office.

The McCanns decisively denied sedating their children and threatened to sue the Portugese Press that continued to claim Madeleine and her brother and sister were drugged.

Kate McCann rang up whilst in pdl to take the twins for testing.


When Gerry came home he cancelled the test.


6 months later the twins were tested .....