Madeleine McCann inquiries: Met wants 'joint investigation team'

**Annabel** Wed 27 Nov - 14:09

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643

The Metropolitan Police want to set up a "joint investigation team" with the Portuguese authorities into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Met Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said the force was seeking agreement for the team from the UK and Portuguese and UK governments.

He said it would be more effective than the current "ad-hoc" approach to working together.

Madeleine disappeared from Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, in May 2007.

Last month, Portuguese police reopened their inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing from her family's holiday apartment as her parents dined at a nearby tapas bar.

Portugal's attorney general said "new elements of evidence" justified the "continuation of the investigation", which was shelved in 2008.

That came a week after an appeal by British police - launched on BBC One's Crimewatch programme - prompted 2,400 responses.

The senior investigating officer of the British inquiry, Det Ch Insp Andy Redwood, is due to provide an update on the programme on Thursday night.

But BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said Det Ch Insp Redwood was not expected to release any major new information.

In the appeal, detectives released two e-fits of a man seen carrying a child in Praia da Luz at 22:00 on the night Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, went missing.

The programme, which was later repeated in the Netherlands and Germany, also revealed police now suspected she could have been taken later than previously thought - just before her mother returned to the apartment to check on her.

Crimewatch will be shown on BBC One at 21:00 GMT on Thursday

**fuzeta** Wed 27 Nov - 14:16

Bad news this is. They want to work more closely with the PJ so that there will be no discrepancies when they set somebody up.

flower Wed 27 Nov - 14:19

Can anyone explain to me just exactly what is going on here?? It gets more bizzare by the day..................

**kitti** Wed 27 Nov - 14:31

Can't be done.

Pj are looking for a body.

SY are looking for a live child.

How they going to get round that.

**tanszi** Wed 27 Nov - 14:37

Not happy with this. the Met need a resolution after all the money that's been spent, and I would think that theres a lot of arguing going on about future funding of this investigation. I think they want a joint investigation to bring about a conclusion. leave it alone, let the PJ do what they need to do and stop interfering with another countries legalalities. I think the UK have found out the PJ didn't do such a bad job afterall. jimo.

**fuzeta** Wed 27 Nov - 14:42

Exactly and that is why SY want to move in

**kitti** Wed 27 Nov - 14:52

Everybody thought they were working together anyway and this proves they weren't.

SY are being kept in the dark about a few things and they don't like it one bit.

Boo hoo,.......get over it

mossman Wed 27 Nov - 15:47

You have to wonder how prepared SY were for the Portuguese announcing they were re-opening their investigation.

SY cannot control what they are not part of.

How do you say "thanks, but no thanks" in Portuguese. I hope that's on the RSVP to the kind invitation from SY.

**tanszi** Wed 27 Nov - 15:49

I really hope there is no strong arming or any more political interference in this investigation. as you say Kitti radical difference in what theyre searching for. SY say Madeleine is alive or not, PJ looking for a body. jimo

**Keela** Wed 27 Nov - 15:52

mossman wrote:You have to wonder how prepared SY were for the Portuguese announcing they were re-opening their investigation.

SY cannot control what they are not part of.

How do you say "thanks, but no thanks" in Portuguese. I hope that's on the RSVP to the kind invitation from SY.

Simple - Obrigado, mas nao obrigado.

mossman Wed 27 Nov - 15:56

Keela wrote:
mossman wrote:You have to wonder how prepared SY were for the Portuguese announcing they were re-opening their investigation.

SY cannot control what they are not part of.

How do you say "thanks, but no thanks" in Portuguese. I hope that's on the RSVP to the kind invitation from SY.

Simple - Obrigado, mas nao obrigado.

Obrigado Keela Madeleine McCann inquiries: Met wants 'joint investigation team' 25346

**Keela** Wed 27 Nov - 15:59

mossman wrote:
Keela wrote:
mossman wrote:You have to wonder how prepared SY were for the Portuguese announcing they were re-opening their investigation.

SY cannot control what they are not part of.

How do you say "thanks, but no thanks" in Portuguese. I hope that's on the RSVP to the kind invitation from SY.
Simple - Obrigado, mas nao obrigado.

Obrigado Keela

Nao e nada e voce e bem-vindo!!

**Annabel** Wed 27 Nov - 16:08

The Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-news-british-portuguese-2857049

Guest Wed 27 Nov - 16:15

Annabel wrote:The Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-news-british-portuguese-2857049

Hogan-Howe, the fundraiser-in-chief, is in a flap in case the Portuguese don't toe the party line! At least that is what it sounds like to me.

mossman Wed 27 Nov - 16:23

"There are two separate inquiries with a different focus - we've got one particular set of lines of inquiry and they have a different one. But it's important that we work together on what is clearly a common problem.

What an odd choice of words. A child has disappeared. Call me hysterical, but I would consider it a little more than a problem.

**Lioned** Wed 27 Nov - 16:40

Bit of backtracking from SY and Andy here.No great new 'revelations' then.Going to blame the PJ for lack of progress you can see it coming.They know Portugal are pissed at them and not ready to play the 'Maddie is alive' game.

jeanmonroe Wed 27 Nov - 16:50

Mccann 'balloon Fund raiser in chief' BHH won't mind the PJ 're-interviewing' ALL the T9 in this country then, will he?

**LJC** Wed 27 Nov - 16:56

The way I understand it is that SY were undertaking a review of the evidence in the hope they would unearth something significant enough to persuade the Portuguese to re-open the investigation. But in the meantime the Portuguese have re-opened it anyway. Therefore, what would be wrong in SY bringing all of their information to the table and the PJ bringing theirs? To my mind it makes no sense at all to have two separate forces undertaking a review on the one hand and an investigation on the other. I see nothing wrong here and think it makes sense. SY are limited on what they can look at in a review and the PJ have files of papers of their own since re-opening the case, so let SY have sight of them and vice versa.

This is a very serious crime here that has been committed. We are used to child murders, heaven knows we are, but either someone is behind bars like Ian Brady even if no child's body has been found, or the child is found dead but no one behind bars, but this is both - no child, no body, no one locked up.

Even in the April Jones case they found bones and could have a funeral and say goodbye and someone is locked up, but in this case, nothing but dead ends all the time.

It makes sense for both forces to join together now and crack this and, at the same time, for the same to happen in Ben Needham's case.

Lets get as many hands on deck as possible and solve these very serious child cruelty/murder offences.

**Lioned** Wed 27 Nov - 17:03

LJC wrote:The way I understand it is that SY were undertaking a review of the evidence in the hope they would unearth something significant enough to persuade the Portuguese to re-open the investigation. But in the meantime the Portuguese have re-opened it anyway. Therefore, what would be wrong in SY bringing all of their information to the table and the PJ bringing theirs? To my mind it makes no sense at all to have two separate forces undertaking a review on the one hand and an investigation on the other. I see nothing wrong here and think it makes sense. SY are limited on what they can look at in a review and the PJ have files of papers of their own since re-opening the case, so let SY have sight of them and vice versa.

This is a very serious crime here that has been committed. We are used to child murders, heaven knows we are, but either someone is behind bars like Ian Brady even if no child's body has been found, or the child is found dead but no one behind bars, but this is both - no child, no body, no one locked up.

Even in the April Jones case they found bones and could have a funeral and say goodbye and someone is locked up, but in this case, nothing but dead ends all the time.

It makes sense for both forces to join together now and crack this and, at the same time, for the same to happen in Ben Needham's case.

Lets get as many hands on deck as possible and solve these very serious child cruelty/murder offences.

It does make sense but i think politics is getting in the way.

There is so much riding on the libel trial in my view,there will probably be a hiatus till that is resolved.

**fuzeta** Wed 27 Nov - 17:16

LJC wrote:The way I understand it is that SY were undertaking a review of the evidence in the hope they would unearth something significant enough to persuade the Portuguese to re-open the investigation. But in the meantime the Portuguese have re-opened it anyway. Therefore, what would be wrong in SY bringing all of their information to the table and the PJ bringing theirs? To my mind it makes no sense at all to have two separate forces undertaking a review on the one hand and an investigation on the other. I see nothing wrong here and think it makes sense. SY are limited on what they can look at in a review and the PJ have files of papers of their own since re-opening the case, so let SY have sight of them and vice versa.

This is a very serious crime here that has been committed. We are used to child murders, heaven knows we are, but either someone is behind bars like Ian Brady even if no child's body has been found, or the child is found dead but no one behind bars, but this is both - no child, no body, no one locked up.

Even in the April Jones case they found bones and could have a funeral and say goodbye and someone is locked up, but in this case, nothing but dead ends all the time.

It makes sense for both forces to join together now and crack this and, at the same time, for the same to happen in Ben Needham's case.

Lets get as many hands on deck as possible and solve these very serious child cruelty/murder offences.

I would agree if this case was a normal investigation, which it never has been! SY have an agenda in this and that is why they want to poke around and see exactly what the PJ has and where they are heading. We must not forget that SY has already all but cleared the McCann's and have said they have no part in their investigations.
This is bad news and I hope the PJ say no. I do not trust Andy Redman and his team one jot.

**fuzeta** Wed 27 Nov - 17:20

Sorry LJC I missed up your last line when I made my reply and then it looked all one post Madeleine McCann inquiries: Met wants 'joint investigation team' 284844

Madeleine McCann inquiries: Met wants 'joint investigation team' 284844

I don't know how to put it right!!

**Panda** Wed 27 Nov - 17:30

Annabel wrote:The Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-news-british-portuguese-2857049

Thanks Annabel

I thought Hogan Howe had resigned? I sincerely hope the Portugese do not share information and SY have got a nerve , scutinising the Portugese Files on the case , looking for evidence that the investigation was not competent . Now Redwood has found nothing, he wants to share. I sincerely hope OPORTO politely refuses.

**LJC** Wed 27 Nov - 19:05

fuzeta wrote:
LJC wrote:The way I understand it is that SY were undertaking a review of the evidence in the hope they would unearth something significant enough to persuade the Portuguese to re-open the investigation. But in the meantime the Portuguese have re-opened it anyway. Therefore, what would be wrong in SY bringing all of their information to the table and the PJ bringing theirs? To my mind it makes no sense at all to have two separate forces undertaking a review on the one hand and an investigation on the other. I see nothing wrong here and think it makes sense. SY are limited on what they can look at in a review and the PJ have files of papers of their own since re-opening the case, so let SY have sight of them and vice versa.

This is a very serious crime here that has been committed. We are used to child murders, heaven knows we are, but either someone is behind bars like Ian Brady even if no child's body has been found, or the child is found dead but no one behind bars, but this is both - no child, no body, no one locked up.

Even in the April Jones case they found bones and could have a funeral and say goodbye and someone is locked up, but in this case, nothing but dead ends all the time.

It makes sense for both forces to join together now and crack this and, at the same time, for the same to happen in Ben Needham's case.( quote)

I would agree if this case was a normal investigation, which it never has been! SY have an agenda in this and that is why they want to poke around and see exactly what the PJ has and where they are heading. We must not forget that SY has already all but cleared the McCann's and have said they have no part in their investigations.
This is bad news and I hope the PJ say no. I do not trust Andy Redman and his team one jot.
fuzeta wrote:Sorry LJC I missed up your last line when I made my reply and then it looked all one post

I don't know how to put it right!!

No problems.

However, many believe that PJ have an agenda as well! Can two countries Police Forces both be corrupt? No, I don't think so.

I have never known Police to 'have an agenda' actually. They investigate, piece by little piece. If they set out to investigate without an open mind, they never solve the crime. They have to look for proof and an agenda is not proof.

Some cases just can't be solved and that's the bottom line. It is no shame I think to say we've tried everything, appealed as much as we can, investigated every single piece of information that came our way, no matter how trivial it may have seemed, and still nothing. Some cases only get solved by accident, years later. I fear this may be one of those cases actually.

There have been instances where corrupt policing without an open mind and with much prejudice has been known, such as in the Stephen Lawrence case, but where did that get the Police? Absolutely nowhere and nothing solved.

And look how they treated Andrew Mitchell, and where has that got them - absolutely nowhere and nothing solved.

So, what is there in Madeleine's case to be prejudiced against? Why wouldn't they have an open mind in this case? If SY suspected political involvement I think they would want to get their teeth into this case even more.

Sadly it is only the odd few cases where the Police have let themselves down that get the most publicity, but by and large our Police are wonderful in this country.

**fuzeta** Wed 27 Nov - 19:23

I agree LJC about the police in this country I would rather have our police than any other in they world. However this case like some others, Instructions have been given. They have to come up with what they have been told to do. Same with our media who dare not say a word against the McCann's.

**tanszi** Wed 27 Nov - 19:35

on the face of it LJC what you say is correct, and yet I thought that was what was happening. the Met said weve got this, we want you to do that and the PJ are carrying out the diligences. What is it that the Met want done that the PJ disagree with. I just think that this is being put out there, because there is already a joint investigation going on, but it isn't having the desired result the Met wants. If the PJ say weve already got a joint investigation, the will be even more media briefing against the PJ with them being cast again as bungling, etc etc. Lets not forget either that the Leicester police were fully represented in the initial PJ investigation and this led to the parents being investigated further and the UK dogs being brought in. So whilst there may be other avenues to examine, i think that the PJ should maintain their sovereignty in this investigation.

I don't entirely agree with your comment that the Police in this country are by and large wonderful although i agree that they are better than many other police forces in the world. I believe that there are individuals in police forces who want to do as best a job they can on any given day, and do so but for me there are far too many instances of corruption, indifference, and incompetence. I feel differently about the Met wanting to get their teeth into something that they suspected had political involvement. There have been too many cases where they could have and didn't, and i have seen nothing that would ensure they would do something voluntarily as part of an investigation. It has taken several special circumstance investigations to achieve outcomes in some of the cases you have mentioned. jimo.

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