Kate Mccann

DavidA wrote:I am sorry to be negative about posts here. But I must say something.

I think some posts in this thread are very poor, do not help the situation with the people that want justice, and make this forum look bad.

First, if you believe that Kate is a bad mother who leaves her children then you are supporting the abduction theory.

Second, calling her old, ugly and other things will give the McCanns more excuses to try to prevent opinins about them, It also does not give the right impression for this forum, which contains many great and informative posts.

I think free forums are a good thing, but I think the admin and moderators here should be concerned how this forum looks with threads like this. I am only saying this because I care about this forum.

I do agree with most of what you say....but I don't agree with your line that if 'you believe that Kate is a bad mother who leaves her children, you are supporting the abduction theory'.......I believe she is a dreadful mother, who left her children, but I believe Madeleine had an accident and died, rather than was abducted.

David has a valid point,though the occasional thread like this one are few and far between.If you look down the pages there are not many just devoted to the personal abuse of the mccanns,i'll make no apologies for starting this one.

As for those who subscribe to ' No neglect No Abduction',you need to embark on a more imaginative explanation for Maddies disappearance than most on here believe.

It wouldn't hurt to revisit those theories in my view.

You could start a thread on your theory David ?

I think the McCanns are horrible parents. I think everything they did and said show it and I believe if they weren't Madeleine would be alive and well today. I don't believe an abduction occurred and I think that whatever happened, happened because they are selfish, neglectful parents. And I have the right to express my opinion.

Claudia79 wrote:I think the McCanns are horrible parents. I think everything they did and said show it and I believe if they weren't Madeleine would be alive and well today. I don't believe an abduction occurred and I think that whatever happened, happened because they are selfish, neglectful parents. And I have the right to express my opinion.

'it was our holiday too' said KM. they were the only ones of the group who put their children in the creche at every opportunity they could, and Gerry's face and language on the bus...well, why did he say it when he knew he was being filmed....crass and uncouth. They couldn't wait to offload their children and don't start me on why the twins didn't wake up when half the population of Portugal was too-ing and fro-ing on so called abduction night.

ann_chovey wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:I think the McCanns are horrible parents. I think everything they did and said show it and I believe if they weren't Madeleine would be alive and well today. I don't believe an abduction occurred and I think that whatever happened, happened because they are selfish, neglectful parents. And I have the right to express my opinion.

'it was our holiday too' said KM. they were the only ones of the group who put their children in the creche at every opportunity they could, and Gerry's face and language on the bus...well, why did he say it when he knew he was being filmed....crass and uncouth.

Exactly. Even the detached way they refer to their children: the children, the twins, a little girl. They make my skin crawl.

They did themselves no favours in today's interview. What an unlikeable pair they are. Not an iota of remorse about anything but bulldozing onwards causing more havoc. Poor Portugal.

The mccanns are ugly 'within'


The way they have treated people that don't believe them by taking their house, their family and children away from their father...that to me is 'ugly'.

To say that those who say there was neglect support abduction theory....has no logic at all.
From all I read, they did neglect their children, and to me it sounds right, as they are very me me me. Also from all I read..there was no abduction. How these two issues close each others out? They don't.

And that silly mantra 'no neglect no anduction' wan't make it logical, doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating it.

Those mantra repeaters have to answer some questions. Lets play the 'mantra game' and do as if..
- as mccann were in Tapas bar every night, who was with the children?
- why would the other friends take care of mccann 3 children every night?
- who was Maddie with when she went missing?
- did that person who babysitted Maddie kill her..made her disappear?
- why didn't mccann tell the PJ somebody was babysitting Maddie...and 'went missing'
- why didn't mccanns never mention who the babysitter was that night when Maddie went missing?
- why did k8 run to the bar, saying Maddie has been taken?
- why didn't k8 ask the babysitter where Maddy  is?
- why did they tell their family and friends the shutter and window was jemmied?
- why did they call the press is it was the babysitters fault..what ever happened to Maddie?
- why didn't kate and gerry ask the person who was with Maddie, what happened to her, where she is?
- how did the cadaver smell end up behind the sofa in 5A?
- how did the cadaver smell end up in the wardrobe in 5A?
- why did Oldfiel say he checked mccann children, if somebody was babysitting them?
- why did gerry check on Maddie, 9pm, if they were with the babysitter?
- what happeded to Maddie...as she was with a babysitter?
- why did gerry tell Jezz that they leave the kids alone?
- why didn't the twins wake up, why there was a need to drug them if a babysitter was there?
- why did Paynes use baby phone, if there was somebody looking after all children?
- if Maddie was in a flat with baby phone, no sitter, what happened to her after they found her...dead?
etc.

Children left alone is their Get Out clause. Admit to that and that opens the window for abduction. Wasn't there someone missing each night from the table? So long ago now that things blur. Leaving the children in the creche each day while they did their own thing means that the children were more of a hindrance than a joy to be on holiday with. After Madeleine's disappearance, they still left the twins every day. If they genuinely thought she'd been taken, wouldn't it be a case of "trust no-one" and keep them close at all times?

kitti wrote:The mccanns are ugly 'within'


The way they have treated people that don't believe them by taking their house, their family and children away from their father...that to me is  'ugly'.

That's how I feel kitti. I didn't get a chance to watch the court steps interview until I got home from work. To me, they are ugly on the outside but more importantly within.

dazedandconfused wrote:Children left alone is their Get Out clause. Admit to that and that opens the window for abduction. .............

Exactly. This is a much better describtion what I wanted to say.

weissnicht wrote:To say that those who say there was neglect support abduction theory....has no logic at all.
From all I read, they did neglect their children, and to me it sounds right, as they are very me me me. Also from all I read..there was no abduction. How these two issues close each others out? They don't.

And that silly mantra 'no neglect no anduction' wan't make it logical, doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating it.

Sorry, I do not understand what is this mantra or about repeating this. But I think you miss my point, maybe I explained badly.

The questions you ask are only about neglect. Do I want the McCanns to be accused of neglect? No. No. No. Because this changes the view from what I believe the focus should be, which unfortunately is something much worse.

I do not understand why you say there is no connection. I do not believe that, if they convered up a terrible accident or something worse happened, that the issue we want to focus on is neglect. As dazedandconfused said, this helps the abduction theory.

But, more importantly, if you look at some posts that say about neglect, they are supporting some of the things the McCanns said themselves about when and where children were left alone. In my opinion, with all the evidence, I think we should not assume all these facts are correct. Maybe they were stories to hide sometihng different.

Lioned wrote:David has a valid point,though the occasional thread like this one are few and far between.If you look down the pages there are not many just devoted to the personal abuse of the mccanns,i'll make no apologies for starting this one.

As for those who subscribe to ' No neglect No Abduction',you need to embark on a more imaginative explanation for Maddies disappearance than most on here believe.

It wouldn't hurt to revisit those theories in my view.

You could start a thread on your theory David ?

I did not want to say the thread was wrong. But some comments I believe do not help this forum or finding the answers to this situation.

I beileve the 3rd was all not real. I think to be so organised with the stories, the McCanns needed more time. I can start on thread with mor details.

You didn't anwers any of my questions. While you are on it...why did Maddie cry for 1,5 hours, if the so called babysitter was with her?

I would like to have answers to all, thanks.

I respond to the McCs statement that they left their children asleep, because what they said they did is is a fact and not necessarily what happened. I and many others try to stick with what are given as facts, and is why the neglect issue is believed. Many cannot understand why the McCs are seemingly unconcerned at being labelled child neglectors. the leaving the children, and the unlocked apartment, are essential to the case for abduction which is still imo not clear cut. I have a problem with this, but perhaps it is the lesser of two evils than can be discussed in a public forum. what i think occurred is quite different and I cannot be sued for my thoughts, yet. so perhaps this is why people discuss the no neglect no abduction theory.

DavidA wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:Children left alone is their Get Out clause.  Admit to that and that opens the window for abduction. .............

Exactly. This is a much better describtion what I wanted to say.

weissnicht wrote:To say that those who say there was neglect support abduction theory....has no logic at all.
From all I read, they did neglect their children, and to me it sounds right, as they are very me me me. Also from all I read..there was no abduction. How these two issues close each others out? They don't.

And that silly mantra 'no neglect no anduction' wan't make it logical, doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating it.

Sorry, I do not understand what is this mantra or about repeating this. But I think you miss my point, maybe I explained badly.

The questions you ask are only about neglect. Do I want the McCanns to be accused of neglect? No. No. No. Because this changes the view from what I believe the focus should be, which unfortunately is something much worse.

I do not understand why you say there is no connection. I do not believe that, if they convered up a terrible accident or something worse happened, that the issue we want to focus on is neglect. As dazedandconfused said, this helps the abduction theory.

But, more importantly, if you look at some posts that say about neglect, they are supporting some of the things the McCanns said themselves about when and where children were left alone. In my opinion, with all the evidence, I think we should not assume all these facts are correct. Maybe they were stories to hide sometihng different.

Lioned wrote:David has a valid point,though the occasional thread like this one are few and far between.If you look down the pages there are not many just devoted to the personal abuse of the mccanns,i'll make no apologies for starting this one.

As for those who subscribe to ' No neglect No Abduction',you need to embark on a more imaginative explanation for Maddies disappearance than most on here believe.

It wouldn't hurt to revisit those theories in my view.

You could start a thread on your theory David ?

I did not want to say the thread was wrong. But some comments I believe do not help this forum or finding the answers to this situation.

I beileve the 3rd was all not real. I think to be so organised with the stories, the McCanns needed more time. I can start on thread with mor details.

Agreeing with much of what you're saying DavidA.

weissnicht wrote:You didn't anwers any of my questions. While you are on it...why did Maddie cry for 1,5 hours, if the so called babysitter was with her?

I would like to have answers to all, thanks.

What if the babysitter/responsible adult was the cause of the prolonged crying?

Who is this 'babysitter' we're talking about?

What babysitter?

The McCanns are on record as saying 'there was no babysitter, because we didn't want to leave the kids with a 'stranger' and that's why we were popping back regularly for 'checks'. Our own devised routine'

The hypothetical babysitter who scuppers the neglect and abduction theory. I did say earlier on the thread that there were claims that an adult was missing from the table each night and I was answering weissnicht. I've no idea if there was anyone looking after the children and that was my only theory about why Madeleine cried for so long if in fact there was someone "babysitting" her.

Was That the Rachel oldfield night when she stayed in.



It could off been that she popped in every so often to check....

The neglect was the only thing proven. It's a fact, not a theory, and it's in the files and in the archival dispatch. The only reason why they weren't punished was because the AG's office thought that losing a child was punishment enough. Just like the case of a man who forgot his baby inside the car causing the child's death. He was charged with neglect but didn't do any time because the judge considered his guilt was punishment enough.

ETA: people can believe the theories they want. But that's just what they are: theories which aren't supported by anything in the files.

Claudia79 wrote:The neglect was the only thing proven. It's a fact, not a theory, and it's in the files and in the archival dispatch. The only reason why they weren't punished was because the AG's office thought that losing a child was punishment enough. Just like the case of a man who forgot his baby inside the car causing the child's death. He was charged with neglect but didn't do any time because the judge considered his guilt was punishment enough.

ETA: people can believe the theories they want. But that's just what they are: theories which aren't supported by anything in the files.

Yes, this is true. I am not sure if this post is connected with my point. I want to say that, yes, it is clear there was neglect. Everyone can see this. But this is not why most of us come to this forum I think. I think most of us will not be happy if the McCanns were seen as only parents who neglected their child. Even if they were charged with this crime, it is not what I think many here believe will be justice, but I believe this is what they will want if they are guilty of something different, something worse.

I believe the more we talk about the bad McCanns because of neglect, the more we support their describtion of the events, and the more the focus is removed from something different, which I believe most of us here think is the truth (of course one version of this possible truth is Mr Amaral's version).

I agree with you DavidA. At the time of Madeleine's disappearance, I was thinking to myself, please do not charge them with neglect because you would be giving them what they needed to escape the much larger crime. Of course the PJ did not, which to me was the right strategy. As it stands, so far they have got away with the lot. That might change we hope.

I do believe that they were probably very neglectful of their children and always put themselves first. That is a different matter.

DavidA wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:The neglect was the only thing proven. It's a fact, not a theory, and it's in the files and in the archival dispatch. The only reason why they weren't punished was because the AG's office thought that losing a child was punishment enough. Just like the case of a man who forgot his baby inside the car causing the child's death. He was charged with neglect but didn't do any time because the judge considered his guilt was punishment enough.

ETA: people can believe the theories they want. But that's just what they are: theories which aren't supported by anything in the files.

Yes, this is true. I am not sure if this post is connected with my point. I want to say that, yes, it is clear there was neglect. Everyone can see this. But this is not why most of us come to this forum I think. I think most of us will not be happy if the McCanns were seen as only parents who neglected their child. Even if they were charged with this crime, it is not what I think many here believe will be justice, but I believe this is what they will want if they are guilty of something different, something worse.

I believe the more we talk about the bad McCanns because of neglect, the more we support their describtion of the events, and the more the focus is removed from something different, which I believe most of us here think is the truth (of course one version of this possible truth is Mr Amaral's version).

I know what you're saying DavidA. Of course they will be shouting from the rooftops that they left their children alone, no opportunity for an abduction otherwise and neglect is much preferable to a more serious charge. Still annoys me though that they have never issued a statement warning others not to leave their children home alone. If they had just once seemed a tad remorseful I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't be questioning their version of events. A little humility would have won them a lot of sympathisers but no, they never showed the slightest suggestion that what they said they did was wrong, not helped by all these Z-lister celebs jumping on the bandwaggon and saying we all do it.

DavidA wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:The neglect was the only thing proven. It's a fact, not a theory, and it's in the files and in the archival dispatch. The only reason why they weren't punished was because the AG's office thought that losing a child was punishment enough. Just like the case of a man who forgot his baby inside the car causing the child's death. He was charged with neglect but didn't do any time because the judge considered his guilt was punishment enough.

ETA: people can believe the theories they want. But that's just what they are: theories which aren't supported by anything in the files.

Yes, this is true. I am not sure if this post is connected with my point. I want to say that, yes, it is clear there was neglect. Everyone can see this. But this is not why most of us come to this forum I think. I think most of us will not be happy if the McCanns were seen as only parents who neglected their child. Even if they were charged with this crime, it is not what I think many here believe will be justice, but I believe this is what they will want if they are guilty of something different, something worse.

I believe the more we talk about the bad McCanns because of neglect, the more we support their describtion of the events, and the more the focus is removed from something different, which I believe most of us here think is the truth (of course one version of this possible truth is Mr Amaral's version).

What I mean, DavidA, is that one possible crime (or more) does not exclude the one which was proved. My theory is that whatever happened to Madeleine happened because she was very unlucky re the parents she was given. And everything the McCanns said and did after whatever happened has led me to believe that's what they really are as parents. The detachment of their words re their children is, for me, unbelievable. So yes, I will not get tired of mentioning their terrible parenting because that's what I believe led to this whole sorry mess.
Personally speaking, I completely disregard any theory which includes something happening before the 3rd because that would have given them time to be much more competent in getting their stories straight and it would also mean that people who had nothing to gain would conspire with the McCanns. I just don't buy it at all. Neither does anyone on the original investigation team.

I really think they still believe they did nothing wrong by leaving the children alone. That's how selfish and arrogant I think they are.