Aisling Symes - found dead near her home

carlymichelle wrote:our news just said police are still saying there isa chance it was foul play

foul play by who Carly? Have they given any indication?

I still can't figure out how she got in that drain, lifted the drain lid i mean.

arachnidae wrote:

carlymichelle wrote:our news just said police are still saying there isa chance it was foul play

foul play by who Carly? Have they given any indication?

I still can't figure out how she got in that drain, lifted the drain lid i mean.

no it didnt say by who

Schnuffel wrote:

carlymichelle wrote:it doesnt explain how she got in there though

HOW DID AISLING GET INTO DRAIN?

Inspector Davey said part of the police inquiry would be to establish how Aisling got into the drain.

She was found 36 metres away from a manhole into the drain and 1.5m underground. Concrete cutters and a digger were required to open the drain up and retrieve the body.

He said a manhole into the drain was seen to be 8 to 10 centimetres ajar on the night Aisling went missing.

However he said: "I'm sure we would not have been able to save her on the night."

He said it had been raining that night with water sluicing down the drain.

"It would have been impossible for her to turn around if she was crawling."

DRAIN COMPLAINTS

A family who lived next to the property where Aisling was found say they moved out due to concerns about a drain manhole.

Sonya Carrington said she lived on an adjoining property for two years, but moved across the road because of concerns about the drain.

The manhole would lift off and water would come pouring out in heavy rain, Ms Carrington said.

"We called the council and some councillors and it has been looked at, but it's never been fixed yet."

Ms Carrington said she had also wanted a fence between the properties repaired in case her children got over there.

One of the reasons she moved was due to fear of her young child falling down the manhole.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2958012/Aisling-drowned-autopsy-finds

The latter part of this post might offer explanation as to the drain lid was off. If the drain lid did not fit tightly, coupled heavy rain and the drain was blocked then it would make sense that the lid may have risen up.

Terrible ,terrible tragedy if Aisling just fell in that drain which seems to be the case if the police are not suspecting foul play!But 36 metre's is a long way for a little 2 year old girl to wander in the blink of an eye ,an awful long way !

Yes, I think too that there could be foul play.
Sorry, I do not know if it is right, but I did not find panic in the little girls fathers face. He appeared extremely controlled. No tears, no breathy voice...
Okay. I do not want to be unfair.
I have my own very private opinion regarding parental emotions/states after the disappearance of their child.
But it is only me.

IF the pipe has been full of water (the rain) Aisling would have drowned. She did clamp.
Unimaginable!

Regarding the girls parents I have to say that I cannot understand how parents think it is okay to let the door (to the outside) open while they can not check on their children.
When I do repair a machine I close the door. The children cannot go where ever they would like to. They are on their own safe grounds.
Alone the cars outside...

Regarding Madeleine. The doors have been unlocked???
The steps down from the veranda end on the street...
How can parents exclude that their child would not run onto the lane (dangerous driving cars).
When the child is full of panic or fear?

Well if their was no foul play the person who put the drain cover back in place will come forward and say so !

What about workers? Could they have moved it?

I hope that the rain and water did not wash away the DNA.
Aislings father did help with the search. So his DNA will definitely be around the scene.

I would like to know if cadaver-dogs did sniff in the Symes house.

Lid 8 - 10 cm ajar - thats less than 4 inches. I can't see a 2 year old getting through a space of that size.

The Police Officer that searched inside the drain with his torch, says he could see 5 metres and hear water, but not that he was in water, so I fail to see how the pressure of water could have lifted the cover off. What a tragic outcome for the poor child.

Earlier reports stated that Aisling would not have had enough room to turn around and climb out - this would seem to indicate that she fell in head first. That to me indicates that she must have tripped and fallen in, if she were walking and fell into the hole she would have gone in feet first. I dunno this maybe a tragic accident, but i have to be honest i am not convinced.

What this case does highlight though is how children can and will wander off and how they can encounter terrible accidents. So, why were the McCanns so convinced that Madeleine didn't simply wander off? This case shows how easy it could be to miss the body of a small child in ground searches.

I lived in a property in the uk at the bottom of a hill. Whenever there was heavy rain (which we did have last year) the toilets would fill up and the drain cover on the drive would be blown right off. It was a really heavy cover strong enough for a car to drive over. The cover could have blown off with the water and someone else put it back on being helpful.

UK Parents Lounge

TV psychic sparks holy row in Aisling Symes case

13 October 2009

New Zealand channel TVNZ drew emails of complaint from viewers accusing the channel of promoting its psychic show during the search for tragic tot Aisling Symes.

Reporter Amy Kelly asked police if they would investigate a tip from fellow TVNZ presenter Deb Webber, a TV celebrity medium who had sensed Aisling's location. Viewers complained that the channel was trying to exploit the story for commercial gain, while creators of a Facebook page set up to support the family asked psychics to stay away.

Webber said in a breakfast TV interview, "I was walking past the television and [Aisling] popped up, and I went, 'Oh, she's in a ditch, hole, in West Auckland. That's what I got, instantly."

Aisling's body was found in a drain close to where she disappeared in west Auckland, but investigation head Inspector Gary Davey said Webber's tip was vague and of little use.

"If she's said there's a body in a ditch in West Auckland, there are plenty of ditches and we can't do much with that information." he said. "With psychics, if they have information we feel we can check out, then we will."

NZ Skeptics chair Vicki Hyde said Webber's prediction was wrong. "A ditch is not a drain," she said. "It's not sensing murder, it's sensing opportunity, sensing exploitation and there's nothing worse than exploiting parents who are under such strain and stresses."

The family-supporting Facebook page asked people not to suggest psychics. "Please do not suggest psychics, the family are a strong Christian family, and will not consider this under any circumstances," it said. "I know you are all just trying to think of anything to help but it's not helpful for us to see that on here."

Complaints from viewers said the news channel was trying to commercialise the Aisling Symes story by using it to promote the star of one of its shows. The TV station refuted the claims.

Critics of Webber's prediction say that her TV show, Sensing Murder, has not solved a single crime since it went on air and doesn't provide any useful information that police can use to solve crimes.

http://www.ukparentslounge.com/index.php?pg=104&utwkstoryid=2449&title=TV+psychic+sparks+holy+row+in+Aisling+Symes+case&ind=0

littlepixie wrote:I lived in a property in the uk at the bottom of a hill. Whenever there was heavy rain (which we did have last year) the toilets would fill up and the drain cover on the drive would be blown right off. It was a really heavy cover strong enough for a car to drive over. The cover could have blown off with the water and someone else put it back on being helpful.

Whoever was being helpful by putting the cover back on, if that was the case ,will be keen to let the police know .Does anyone know if anyone has told the police they did this ????

I'm not being funny but surely to god if you were out searching for a 2 year old child and you came across a manhole cover that had been moved (even slightly) would you not be on RED ALERT for that particular area?

Maybe the manhole cover had already been put back on when the searches commenced. Any right minded person would flag that up immediately?...

I'm of the opinion that this has the makings of an tragic accident written all over it, but maybe that's what the Inspector means when he still has lots of questions that need answered.

Surely, given that there was a massive search being undertaken for a missing child, if anyone had noticed a displaced drain cover and innocently replaced it they would have informed the police before now. If it had been any of us I'm sure we'd have put those facts together immediately on hearing about the search.

travis people in NZ have alreafy bashed the cops in this case and thats cruel the cops are clearly disterssed over this case:( i wish the people bashing the cops would remmeber that kids are the worst jobs for cops ( i dont mean you btw)

Fudge wrote:The Police Officer that searched inside the drain with his torch, says he could see 5 metres and hear water, but not that he was in water, so I fail to see how the pressure of water could have lifted the cover off. What a tragic outcome for the poor child.

I work in Malta for most of the year, and on the odd occassion that it rains, the drain covers are routinely lifted. Some of the steel drain covers I'm talking about are huge, over 2 metres in length, and probably weigh over a tonne, these things require a crane to lift them back into place, but year after year they're dislodged and moved by running water.

I've seen a few flash floods and it really doesnt take much runing water to knock an adult of their feet and sadly whilst its not a regular occurrence people have drowned as a consequence. A child would have no chance

Alfiefinn wrote:Surely, given that there was a massive search being undertaken for a missing child, if anyone had noticed a displaced drain cover and innocently replaced it they would have informed the police before now. If it had been any of us I'm sure we'd have put those facts together immediately on hearing about the search.

We wopuld, so I wonder why we are not hearing that anyone has said they put it back ?

Carly, I'm not bashing the police. I certainly don't think that they would have missed such an important sign (if there was one). And I don't think any of the volunteer searchers would have either.

Travis40 wrote:Carly, I'm not bashing the police. I certainly don't think that they would have missed such an important sign (if there was one). And I don't think any of the volunteer searchers would have either.

no i know you are not but in nz there are some that are which is sad they tried to find this little girl alive and are all so upset they didnt the public dont know how much little kids affect cops its heartbreaking

A serious question.

How is it possible that a just two years old nosy and unaware vulnerable toddler finds the possibility to walk freely to such a dangerous train-system???

Lilemor wrote:A serious question.

How is it possible that a just two years old nosy and unaware vulnerable toddler finds the possibility to walk freely to such a dangerous train-system???

2 things to be learnt from this...

1....NEVER LET A CHILD OUT OFF YOUR SIGHT FOR EVEN A SECOND....and

2... NEVER LEAVE A CHILD TO PLAY NEAR WATER EVEN IF ITS AN INCH DEEP.



The child was OUTSIDE the house and playing near some water...


THIS SAD CASE HAS BECOME A 'NON-STORY' NOW THIS IT WASNT AN ABDUCTION.

PERHAPS THE MCCANNS WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT.

kitti wrote:

Lilemor wrote:A serious question.

How is it possible that a just two years old nosy and unaware vulnerable toddler finds the possibility to walk freely to such a dangerous train-system???

2 things to be learnt from this...

1....NEVER LET A CHILD OUT OFF YOUR SIGHT FOR EVEN A SECOND....and

2... NEVER LEAVE A CHILD TO PLAY NEAR WATER EVEN IF ITS AN INCH DEEP.



The child was OUTSIDE the house and playing near some water...


THIS SAD CASE HAS BECOME A 'NON-STORY' NOW THIS IT WASNT AN ABDUCTION.

PERHAPS THE MCCANNS WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT.

Perhaps the McCanns would like to say something like: we share your grief and we can imagine how you feel. The burden of guilt we feel for leaving our children alone will never leave us. Although we know Aisling was only out of your sight for a short time, we know, from our own tragic experience, that you must never leave children on their own, even for a few moments.

No correspondence from the McCanns yet?

Wonder what the mccanns felt when they found out it was a tragic accident?