Case Files discussions

Haven't read all the thread but IMO drugs certainly played a part somewhere i.e kids were drugged to get them to sleep. As soon as Kate cottoned onto the fact that they were suspected she to wanted to lay those cards on the table and claim the abductor must have drugged them, but when Gerry found out he cancelled it knowing the hair and nail testing would have shown the kids were very regularly drugged - not just the once.

during david payne's second rogatory interview he made the following comments:

'........ I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them (maddie and the twins) and I couldn’t, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked SUCH HEALTHY CHILDREN (my emphasis), err you know, there’s, there’s you know NOTHING THAT NORMALLY TRIGGERS (my emphasis) in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err…”

is it me, or is he trying to justify the amount of sedative given to the children?

I dont wanna think what he was thinking but whatever it was it dont sound healthy to me

Where are the statements for Alice Standley & Chris Unswork?

If Madeleine was at the beach the morning of May 3rd as Catriona states then surely these statements are of prime importance.

Are they, maybe, held, and could it be because neither of them remember seeing Madeleine which disputes Catriona's Rogatory statement?

(or am I blind and I have missed them?)


Catriona Baker Rog - never noticed anything strange in Madeleine’s behaviour during the time I spent with her. There was one occasion, on Thursday, 3rd of May 2007, around 10h30 in the morning, when she cried on board of the speed boat that would take them out to the yellow boats in the sea where all the children in the group were going to sail. She was scared and a bit fearful and sat on my lap, crying “I am scared, I am scared.” We only use the speed boats to carry the children out to the small yellow boats. When we arrived at the other yellow boat she was already happy again. She sailed in the small boat and even though some children had the opportunity to return to the port, she stayed for a second ride as she appeared to be having a good time. Jane Tanner’s daughter E*** was also in my group and they both played together and shared some intimacy. Despite from being a happy child at the club, she always seemed very content when she saw her parents. Madeleine was not as worried anymore on the speed boat, when we returned to land.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA-B.htm

04-Processos, volume IV . Pgs. 870 to 873
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_870

04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_871

04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_872

04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_873

Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector
Description and result of diligence


Today (10 May 07), accompanied by Joao Barreiras and Catriona Baker, the 'nanny' responsible for the missing minor, retraced the places and times at which they left the resort area to go to Praia da Luz. A photographic report [of this journey] is attached:
- We were told by Catriona that the only days they went to the beach were Tuesday afternoon (1 May 2007) between 15:30 and 16:30, on Wednesday (the next day) at the same time and on Thursday between 10 and 11 o'clock (see attached table [of creche activities]).

- The route taken was as follows:

1. The parents left the children at "Baby Club", Mark Warner, situated next to the principal reception and which is open 24 hours;
2. then Catriona, with Madeleine and 4 or 5 more children, walked toward the beach. The distance is about 100 metres but not in a straight line;
3. she was always in front with the children behind linked together in a "summy snake" (the object being to form a snake so that the children stayed together in Indian file);
4. leaving the "Baby Club" they descended the stairs to the principal reception, through the front-entrance and crossed Rua Direita (the main street in Praia da Luz) heading for Beco das Palmeiras [passageway: called 'alley of palm trees'];
5. then they made a right towards Beco do Nordeste [passageway: called 'northeast alley'] after which they made a left and went down a stairway next to a property called "Casa Ortiga", that has the number 17;
6. at the bottom of the steps is Travessa das Redes [another street];
7. crossing this they descended alongside the parking lot towards the esplanade that runs the length of the beach;
8. after reaching the beach they went along the boardwalk to an area where there was a red awning and several thatched sunshades;

- On the first two days the children played and did activities in the sand. On the Thursday they went sailing next to the beach.
- On that day they sailed in a small yellow "catamaran";
- Alice Standley accompanied the children on the route and on the boat. Three children sailed with her at one time;

- Chris Unswork transported the children in a red amphibious boat (life-saving boat) until the boat reached the open sea, and, a few minutes later, returned them to the beach to pick up three other children from the group;

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.

Well now l am shocked again, it's one thing to shove your kids in the creche everyday but quite another to let strangers, yes STRANGERS because that is what these creche employees were, take your kids out on the open SEA especially when she was crying she was scared. Oh l am so angry Maddie deserved so much better it's heartbreaking.

And good points hideho, wonder where those statements are.

I have to admit, it was going through my head whether something happened that MW was responsible for (eg on the boat) but quickly realised that it wouldn't fit in with the dogs findings.

I was also trying to make a tie-in with the Mc's taking the children to the beach Tuesday lunchtime but leaving after 20mins because it was too cold and yet the nannies took Madeleine and others to the beach in the afternoon.

I think I need a break from reading statements!

bless you, but you are finding so much out reading them!

I don't think MW were to blame, it would be so convenient for the Mcs to blame them but nothing untoward could have happened otherwise we'd have known.

I wonder why she would cry on the boat as when she was in a boat with her aunt she looked ok.

I read a statement yesterday ( I thought it was ROB but could be wrong) about seeing the children with the nannies down the beach.

I have been searching all day for it, does anyone else recall seeing it?

I don't believe Madeleine was at the beach that day and though some of the T7 were down at the beach that morning and recall seeing her, they also played tennis and spent time with Kate and Gerry by the pool...multitasking or lying?

As far as I am concerned there would be minimum chance that everyone cannot remember almost to the minute what they did that day and any discrepancies and contradictions indicate they are trying to hide something.

If only we knew what was in those statements......

(I don't think MW were to blame either, I was just having a 'funny' moment!)

You would remember everything about that day, yet none of them commit to even seeing Maddie.

are the tapas 7 rogatory interviews on here, i can't find them

i do remember though that in rachel's she said she saw maddie at 10.30am playing tennis on the thursday and the nanny cat baker says she was on a boat at that time

I have been listing all highlights from all statements, including Rogatories for Thursday May 3, hour by hour on this thread...

Thursday May 3rd Timeline - Compare Statements for Discrepancies

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/main-maddie-thread-latest-news-f1/thursday-may-3rd-timeline-compare-statements-for-discrepancies-t8518.htm#178118

Rogatory Statements are here...

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/rogatory-statements-f168/

..textusa post today....re...see the comment from ironside...he has voiced concerns about the 'gaspars' like do they even exist.... and you know i have always wondered the same thing because to me the statement from them doesn't ring the right bells for me...a bit too causal...
a true story ... a long time ago i was bathing my daughter aged six and a half in our downstairs bathroom off the kitchen, anyway a friend had popped round with her new boyfriend and as we we were drinking tea he got up and said he wanted to use the toilet (off the other side of the kitchen, a pre-war house.) a minute or two later i got up and went to check my daughter and this man was leaning on the bathroom wall looking at my little girl...i can't remember what happend next except i saw red and asked them to leave my house....i was livid and shaken... i didn't want to hear an explanation..to me there was no reason at all ever for a grown man to be in the bathroom....if i ever saw him again to this day i would wring his neck....anyway thats how i still feel and it still makes me shudder to even think about it...
but the point i am making is about the 'Gaspars' reactions.

The Gaspars are both GPs in the Midlands - working from different practices not that far apart. They have identical names as the witnesses. It is just possible that someone has managed to add two imaginary doctors to the GMC register and then added them to the lists of doctors working in surgeries in the Midlands.

I have my doubts though. Would have thought that someone might have noticed, not least the patients who they are only serving in someone's imagination.

No, I tend to think they are real.

A internet search reveals they(the gaspar's)exist.

what are doing now i wonder .... what pressure they must have been put under to keep things quiet..

i hope they are genuine..the statements are included in Goncalo's book...we still know very little about them though..i only mentioned it because of my own experience....and noting ironsides/rosie comment

He went to dundee university at same time as km.
It was speculated when the thing came out about biological father supposely lives in birmingham by portuguese newpapers that he was the person

I am surprised that Mrs Gasper instructed her husband too watch Mr David Payne as she did not trust him with the children YET : She still allowed him to bath her child??? if she was so concerned about the "nipple movements" why on earth would she let him anywhere near her child LET ALONE, at bath time??

Something does not add up??

I tend to believe the Gaspars WILL be called to testify - possibly at the LIBEL TRIAL

Tick tock Miss Kate Tick tock!

hi..see my own personal comment a few posts back post..how would you react

just something that i find odd is that mrs gaspar says david payne was talking about an imaginary situation but she doesn't know what. (sentence in bold)..i wonder combined with what her husband says is this a get out clause?...also she is sititng in the middle and yet she only heard bits of the conversation yet they were talking across her. odd again. imo it is a strange statement but like everything else the question is why?

see below..
Two or three days passed in Mallorca where we relaxed (Page 3) with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed with me. I tell this in this way, and afterwards I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults—the couple aforementioned—were on a patio on the side of the house were we lodged. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between David and Gerry who were both speaking about Madeleine. I don’t remember the conversation in its entirety, but id did appear they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember David telling Gerry something like “she” (referring to Madeleine) “would she do this”.

Upon mentioning “this”, David was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, and with the other hand encircled his breast in a gyrating fashion over his shirt. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to gauge their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as is saying “did someone else hear that, or was it just me”. Silence registered in all the conversations and after, we all began conversing again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but always felt that it was very strange and not something that should be discussed or said.

Besides this, I remember that David once again did the same thing. When I refer to this, I want to clarify that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary situation. I do not know of what. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, Lily, although I cannot be certain. He put one of his fingers in his mouth and slide it in and out, and with the other hand, drew a circle around his breast in a sexually provocative way. I believe that he was referring to what Lily would do.

When I refer to this, I want to clarify that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary situation.

What kind of person would want to imagine anything inappropriate with his own daughter! (or any other child for that matter!)

how did k gasper know the situation was an imaginary one... she must have heard more than she is telling..imo



Imaginary Situations

My wife and I were traveling late one night and stop off the Interstate at a gas station. In a car parked at another gas pump is a woman having a very heated conversation on her cell phone. As we passed near her car, we heard her yell at the cell phone, "What we have here is an imaginary situation and I'm just trying to keep it real!"

There are many things this could mean but we didn't hang around to hear more of this strangely public-private argument. However, I often think of this woman when I hear people that have clear and strong mental filters. "Imaginary situations." Hmmmm.

How many times have you had a client or colleague see "imaginary situations?" Maybe it is homeowner's view of the value of their house? Or a Realtor's view of why a deal fell through? Or an appraiser's report where you have no idea how they chose the comparable homes?

Business man with filtered gogglesMental filters are common and easily seen in others if you pay attention. And by "mental filter" I'm referring to the way we all accept some information while ignoring or dismissing other information. This has a huge impact on how we communicate... or fail to communicate! It is one of the classic cognitive distortions that influence our behavior.

The damage to effective communication is when these mental filters are excessive. Just think back about a deal where someone was just "stuck" on something that everyone else felt was trivial. Frustrating isn't it?

Here is an interesting (well, interesting to me) example: Statistics say that people are more likely to be struck by lightening than win a big payout in a lottery. Yet, there are plenty of people that run outside in a thunderstorm on their way to buy lottery tickets each year. Now THAT is selective thinking with a mental filter in place.

I have to remind myself frequently to check my mental filters. They can prevent me from having proper empathy with others and that, in turn, can limit my understanding. And that can make doing business difficult.

Just because someone is not understanding my explanation or view of the world, does not mean they are the one with the problem. Maybe I am too filtered or maybe they are. Or both, creating a double distortion of reality. However, I try to focus energy on what is fact, what is opinion, what is important and what is not important. Mental filters can often put the focus on the wrong things, so this is my exercise to keep the filtering minimal.

I would like to mention that pointing out the facts of a situation is rarely effective in communicating with someone that has strong mental filters. If they already have a very distorted view of the world, their filters have long been in place to block your newly presented facts. However, noticing that they have this strong cognitive distortion can help you understand and avoid wasted frustration.

Mental filtering is inherent in all of us. We see ourselves and others based on our experiences and perspective. Understanding this and consciously keeping this in mind as we communicate and interact with others can improve our communication effectiveness and lower our frustration (and maybe you will close a few more deals too!)

I would imagine that if any individual was imagining inappropriate behaviour with any
child whatsoever that it could be an indication that the individual could be a paedophile.