Case Files discussions

Wanted to add: how people look after a shock is impossible to put on.

When JFK was killed, Jackie and all the others around her looked shocked, ill, and numb with grief. But LBJ looked like a little boy who has raided the cookie jar and got away with it. No shock on his face, just a sly little look. That's why I think he knew exactly what was going to happen that day, but I digress!

i love that lat pic he looks like the bottom fell out of his world and the world had fallen out of his bottom, his face says it all , he knows they know what happened and he knew the game was up all that was required was the click of those nice bracelets.
also is it me or does that lawyer have a whacking great big smirk on his face the " got you you bar steward" look

The Famous Grouse wrote:They found evidence that Gerry didn't know about. All you have to do is look at the "before" and "after" pictures of him entering, and leaving, Portimao police station.

For me the most telling part of the 'after' photo is the expression on the face of the gentleman guiding Gerry out!

All this about the drug testing was part of their attempt to scotch any rumours about drugs - by a late test they would be able to say 'tests have shown no drugs in the twins' sytems'.

[quote="nospinnaker"]

The Famous Grouse wrote:They found evidence that Gerry didn't know about. All you have to do is look at the "before" and "after" pictures of him entering, and leaving, Portimao police station.

My rectum doesn't tighten up that much, when i've got the trots and in polite company, as much as Gerrys mouth has in that first picture.

[quote="fred"]

nospinnaker wrote:

The Famous Grouse wrote:They found evidence that Gerry didn't know about. All you have to do is look at the "before" and "after" pictures of him entering, and leaving, Portimao police station.

My rectum doesn't tighten up that much, when i've got the trots and in polite company, as much as Gerrys mouth has in that first picture.

OMG!

considering the verbal diarrohea coming from that mouth i can definitely see the resemblance the famouse grouse
When it starts to quiver stand well back and make sure you have waders on

That's an amazing sneer in the first image and in the second the guy behind Gerry seems to be grinning like someone who has wiped smirk off his face!

fred wrote:

vengefulangel wrote:

kitti wrote:Plus the chuppa chuppa incident and didnt kate ring the pj when gerry wasnt their to say she wanted the twins tested for drugs and when gerry found out she had rang and made an appointment he rang back and cancelled it?

I must have missed the chuppa chuppa incident, what happened pls?

Im taking it Gerry cancelled before the 90 days were up tssk!

Chupa chups are lollipops, Gezza was sat on his computer "working very hard" sucking on one and waving it around.

Cheers Fred.

Thanks vengefulangel very Interesting.

The McCanns curious behaviour as witnessed by Inspector Ricardo Paiva PJ Police Files

Processos Vol X
Pages 2533 - 2534

Date: 2007/09/03

For : Goncalo Amaral

From Ricardo Paiva, Inspector

Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann


Strangely, Kate also made several requests, three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5ª of the Ocean Club, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment, they remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl.

End

Kate waited three Month's of course she did crafty biatch, after three Months the Twin's would be in the clear.
Feeling under the Twin's noses quote Fiona Payne, Kate was checking to make sure the Twin's were breathing.

When a drug is ingested it enters the blood stream and is broken down to a specific metabolite, when a hair sample is screened both the parent drug and the metabolite are isolated.
If the sample screens positive a Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS) confirmation test is performed.
As a single hair sample provides a historic record of drug use of up to THREE MONTH'S ,it not only differentiates between ONE off and PERSISTENT drug usage patterns.

Alpine Aster wrote:Thanks vengefulangel very Interesting.

The McCanns curious behaviour as witnessed by Inspector Ricardo Paiva PJ Police Files

Processos Vol X
Pages 2533 - 2534

Date: 2007/09/03

For : Goncalo Amaral

From Ricardo Paiva, Inspector

Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann


Strangely, Kate also made several requests, three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5ª of the Ocean Club, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment, they remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl.

End

Kate waited three Month's of course she did crafty biatch, after three Months the Twin's would be in the clear.
Feeling under the Twin's noses quote Fiona Payne, Kate was checking to make sure the Twin's were breathing.

When a drug is ingested it enters the blood stream and is broken down to a specific metabolite, when a hair sample is screened both the parent drug and the metabolite are isolated.
If the sample screens positive a Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS) confirmation test is performed.
As a single hair sample provides a historic record of drug use of up to THREE MONTH'S ,it not only differentiates between ONE off and PERSISTENT drug usage patterns.

Alpine

Great post. You have to wonder dont you if during one of the searches of the apartments or whilst the mccanns were trotting off to see the Pope and the twins were in the creche if someone, just one, took a hair from the twins!

Just what was Kate doing with Edward John Healy's medication???? Wouldnt her father have needed it?? No wonder the PJ were frustrated at not being allowed access to the medical records, perhaps now that will be about to change?

As the saying goes "actions speak louder than words".

Vengefulangel

It does seem strange that the Portuguese Police where not granted access to Madeleine's Medical Records.

A Child of three normally does not have a large Medical Record, normal Childhood illnesses, if they were self Medicating they could obtain drugs and try to leave no trail by using one or more of their Patient's names, Shipman did it to feed his drug habit, if Madeleine had been administrated these drug's, then Toxicology Test's at the Post-Mortem would reveal what the drug's where, and how long they had been administrated to Madeleine, they or one Parent would be struck off the Medical Register, bang goes everything they have worked for along with Criminal Charges, the Post-Mortem is the key for me.
Somebody did not want the Authorities to get access to Madeleine, above could be one of the reason's.

Alpine Aster wrote: Vengefulangel

It does seem strange that the Portuguese Police where not granted access to Madeleine's Medical Records.

A Child of three normally does not have a large Medical Record, normal Childhood illnesses, if they were self Medicating they could obtain drugs and try to leave no trail by using one or more of their Patient's names, Shipman did it to feed his drug habit, if Madeleine had been administrated these drug's, then Toxicology Test's at the Post-Mortem would reveal what the drug's where, and how long they had been administrated to Madeleine, they or one Parent would be struck off the Medical Register, bang goes everything they have worked for along with Criminal Charges, the Post-Mortem is the key for me.
Somebody did not want the Authorities to get access to Madeleine, above could be one of the reason's.

it does seem more than likely all 3 children were drugged because of kate waiting so long after maddie went missing to ask for the twins to be tested,and why maddies body has never been found,they sure did a good job of hiding it,poor child.

vengefulangel wrote:No wonder the PJ were frustrated at not being allowed access to the medical records, perhaps now that will be about to change?

Certainly if the case is reopened by the PJ it would be hoped that any request by them to the McCanns themselves or to the British authorities would be complied with. If there is nothing to hide, then there is nothing to fear from full cooperation.

As for the twins maybe being drugged (by whomever), this is what FP said in her interview:

'she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay.'

To check they were breathing? What was she waiting for? - one of them to stop breathing? I find this a really strange thing to do, as Kate McCann would have known better than most that if a twin stopped breathing it would need to be in a hospital with all the necessary equipment on hand. Here were her twins sleeping so deeply that all the commotion and uproar hadn't woken them up, she was checking their breathing but made no move to take them to hospital for proper assessment? Just waiting ... for what?

Excellent thread - so many valid points being made.

So a strand of hair can tell whether drugs have been adminstered as a one off, or, more importantly, on a regular basis, and this can be ascertained UP TO THREE MONTHS from the last drug taken? Have I understood this right?

If so, then no wonder the McCanns were bricking it. A one off dose could be ascribed to this supposed abductor, if the body turned up. But no way could even Kate and Gerry argue that some nasty abductor had been in and out of the apartment on several nights dosing up maddie and the twins, before eventually deciding to take Maddie.

I've always felt that the key to this case is the middle class asperations of the McCanns and the Tapas lot. And their desperation not to lose that lifestyle that they had worked so damned hard to achieve. And this would blow it out of the water. The would never survive if one of them lost their job as a doctor, even if the other one kept theirs. And the same goes for all the other tapas lot.

LindaDA wrote:

So a strand of hair can tell whether drugs have been adminstered as a one off, or, more importantly, on a regular basis, and this can be ascertained UP TO THREE MONTHS from the last drug taken? Have I understood this right?

Yes, because some drugs are absorbed by the hair, and you can tell from whereabouts on the length of the hair, that the drugs were administered, as hair grows at a fairly uniform rate.

It's been the keystone of many a Victorian murder plot - both true and fictional!

Thanks for clarifying that Famous Grouse.

So there is no way Kate and Gerry wouldn't have known that. And Kate timed it right down to the minute as to when to ask for the twins to be drug tested!!!

Those two are despicable!!!

Just thought of something re poor Madeleine' s hair. I know hair wasnt in the apartment but wasnt a rather large quantity found in the rear of the car?

Also does death preserve the drugs in the hair so that the 3 mnth period wouldnt be relevant if her little body is ever found even all this time later?

Earlier in this thread someone posted that there was a really good post on another thread about the possibility that the twins may know more than we think. I didn't post it, but I have always thought it was a possibility that the twins could have been interviewed by a child psychologist when they were dumped in the creche in the early days after Madeleine's disappearance. Children that young would not lie for their parents an would tell the truth, eg Mommy hurt Maddie. They wouldn't need much vocabulary to explain what, if anything, they knew at the time.

vengefulangel wrote:Just thought of something re poor Madeleine' s hair. I know hair wasnt in the apartment but wasnt a rather large quantity found in the rear of the car?

Also does death preserve the drugs in the hair so that the 3 mnth period wouldnt be relevant if her little body is ever found even all this time later?

Yes, because the visible hair on your head is already dead. It's only the growing bit under the scalp that's still alive. Once the drugs are in the hair, that cannot be altered. The only way is to stop administering the drugs until all the hair grows out and is replaced, and obviously that takes time.

jinvta wrote:Earlier in this thread someone posted that there was a really good post on another thread about the possibility that the twins may know more than we think. I didn't post it, but I have always thought it was a possibility that the twins could have been interviewed by a child psychologist when they were dumped in the creche in the early days after Madeleine's disappearance. Children that young would not lie for their parents an would tell the truth, eg Mommy hurt Maddie. They wouldn't need much vocabulary to explain what, if anything, they knew at the time.

Jinvta

I often think of Rachel Nickell's poor son who witnessed her dreadful murder. He was two at the time she was hacked to death on wimbledon common. Still despite his age he was able to do a complete ID of the attacker (robert napper) down to what he was wearing, how he looked, how he hurt his Mum. I have never seen anything to say the twins were ever interviewed. They were around the mccanns more than most afterwards too, well apart from the creche situation, kids are perceptive they could tell a lot.

The twins slept through all the commotion when everyone was in the Apartment when Madeleine was
reported missing and even when Fiona Payne testified that kate was banging her fist against the wall and
putting her finger under their noses to make sure they were still breathing. It would seem unlikely that they would remember much.

Beattie wrote:The twins slept through all the commotion when everyone was in the Apartment when Madeleine was
reported missing and even when Fiona Payne testified that kate was banging her fist against the wall and
putting her finger under their noses to make sure they were still breathing. It would seem unlikely that they would remember much.

That is assuming she died on the evening of the 3rd while the Mc'S were out .. if she died at anytime before during the day when the twins were present - they may remember

Ollybelle wrote:

Beattie wrote:The twins slept through all the commotion when everyone was in the Apartment when Madeleine was
reported missing and even when Fiona Payne testified that kate was banging her fist against the wall and
putting her finger under their noses to make sure they were still breathing. It would seem unlikely that they would remember much.

That is assuming she died on the evening of the 3rd while the Mc'S were out .. if she died at anytime before during the day when the twins were present - they may remember

It is on record that Madeleine was signed out of the Creche at 5.30pm, Gerry said in a T.V. interview that all
three children were in bed and asleep by 7.30pm, who really knows what happened that night?

LindaDA wrote:Thanks for clarifying that Famous Grouse.

So there is no way Kate and Gerry wouldn't have known that. And Kate timed it right down to the minute as to when to ask for the twins to be drug tested!!!

Those two are despicable!!!

Why didnt anyone say to Kate that it was too late to test the twins hair and as a Dr she must have known that? They are never challenged no matter what they say or do.