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McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

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McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 16:00

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/mccann-couple-parents-defy-police-to.html?utm_source=BP_recent


You are here: Home | McCann | Metropolitan Police | Opinion | PJ | Portugal | Rogério Alves | McCann Couple: Parents defy the police to investigate lead
McCann Couple: Parents defy the police to investigate lead
8 July 2012 | Posted by Joana Morais Leave a Comment




Maddie's family want excavations

Rogério Alves, the McCanns lawyer, says the police must take a position on the lead provided by the businessman that guarantees that the cadaver is in Murat's garden

by Ana Luísa Nascimento

The McCann family lawyer defends that the authorities should investigate the lead provided by a South African businessman that guarantees that Maddie, who disappeared in 2007, is buried in the garden of Briton Robert Murat, in the Algarve.

“The family has no technical means to judge if this is true, it does not investigate. What the family expects is for the police to take a position on this matter, to verify the site”, said Rogério Alves to CM, following the private investigation by Stephen Birch, who has already informed the Judiciary Police of the steps taken in Murat's garden with a georadar machine, through which he claims to have detected changes in the subsoil.

Rogério Alves clarifies that the family does not know the South African businessman who made claims that a cadaver is buried in that place, 60 centimetres bellow ground, and adds: “If a person makes a statement as peremptory as that, then the family expects for the police to verify and confirm or deny that claim. If they don't do it, they should explain why.”

“To dissipate doubts there is no alternative”

António Teixeira, former chief inspector of the Judiciary Police Homicide Unit, defends that the Attorney General's Office should reopen the investigation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. In his view, excavations in Robert Murat's garden should be made, following the private investigation of the South African businessman Stephen Birch. “To dissipate all doubts, there is no better alternative than to carry out the excavation”, said the former chief inspector of the Judiciary Police.

Details

May 3, 2007
Madeleine, 3 years-old, disappeared on the night of the 3rd of May of 2007 from the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

Parents Arguidos
After Robert Murat, Madeleine's parents were constituted as arguidos, in September 2007, suspected of concealment of a cadaver.

Archived Process
The investigation was archived in July 2008, but the process might be reopened by initiative of the Attorney General's Office.

in Correio da Manhã, July 7, 2012, paper edition, page 10

A different version for the UK

«(...) Kate and Gerry McCann believe she is still alive and would not comment on Mr Birch's claims.»
in Police Probe Madeleine 'Grave' Theory, by Martin Brunt, Sky News [Murdoch's News International], July 6, 2012

«(...) The youngster’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann yesterday refused to comment on the latest claims about their daughter(...)

A source close to the McCanns, of Rothley, Leics, said: It appears this so-called investigator used scanning equipment during a visit to the resort in June.

Kate and Gerry do not believe there is anything credible in what he is saying. It seems to be complete lies. If there was any truth in it, police would be out there digging up the area looking for possible remains.»
in Madeleine McCann Grave Yards from her hols flat, by Jerry Lawton, Daily Star, July 7, 2012

Coincidentally...


A “report” made in situ, that is in the Algarve, by a former Met detective at the request of Rupert Murdoch's tabloid, The Sun, published last April resurfaced, this time in its entirety on Sky News, also owned by Rupert Murdoch, coincidentally just five days after the South African businessman, Stephen Birch gave an exclusive video interview to the Portuguese Expresso newspaper, more exactly on June 28, the same day Birch left Portugal. Incidentally, the Expresso newspaper media lawyer is Isabel Duarte, the McCann couple libel lawyer.

The report which is nothing more than an opinion, and a biased one in my view, stated that “Madeleine may still be alive” and that she is “likely” with a “childless couple” in “Madeira, even Brazil” or somewhere where Portuguese is spoken, discarding crucial witnesses statements, dismissing the two former arguidos odd actions and attitudes as something totally “irrelevant”, disregarding the time-lines in an apparent attempt to fit the only and already discredited sighting of a non-reliable witness - the sole evidence of the abduction theory maintained by the McCann couple, as well as the usual bashing of the inept Portuguese police, and surprise, of NPIA's Top Criminal Profiler Lee Rainbow, author of one of the most damning reports to appear in the Maddie McCann process, as having done a “misguided analysis”. I could go on... but JB at his blog has already covered this issue extensively.

The timing of the resurfaced report is interesting, to say the least. If it was re-published to bury the soon to appear Birch's news of Maddie's alleged grave as a counter spin or for another not so obvious reason, is something that we will understand in a very near future.


Last edited by Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 16:06; edited 1 time in total

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  quickfingers on Wed 11 Jul - 16:03

Its a shame that when Phillip Schofield asked about the new development yesterday on This Morning Kate said they had spoken to the Police and there was no credibility in his claims. Why didn't she say then that she wanted it investigated? I think they know its going to be investigated so are pre-empting as usual. Just IMHO.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 16:33


"the Expresso newspaper media lawyer is Isabel Duarte, the McCann couple libel lawyer."

I find this very interesting.!!!

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Karen on Wed 11 Jul - 16:35

Thanks for that

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 16:48

Karen wrote:Thanks for that

Hi Karen, so the McCanns are refuting any suggestion that Birch could be right, but their Lawyers are at odds. Why didn't Black just ask Mrs Murat for permission if she was confident nothing would be found she would have no objection.

If Murat had killed Madeleine would he be stupid enough to bury her body in his Garden.???? He would have driven to the clliffs and disposed of her body
there.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  pennylane on Wed 11 Jul - 17:32

Panda wrote:
Karen wrote:Thanks for that

Hi Karen, so the McCanns are refuting any suggestion that Birch could be right, but their Lawyers are at odds. Why didn't Black just ask Mrs Murat for permission if she was confident nothing would be found she would have no objection.

If Murat had killed Madeleine would he be stupid enough to bury her body in his Garden.???? He would have driven to the clliffs and disposed of her body
there.

Hi Panda,

But what if Birch thinks Murat is involved? He's hardly going to expect them to say yes to his request. Just saying there may be other possibilities behind the way he went about things. What if he thinks Gerry is involved too?

Regarding your question 'if Murat had killed Madeleine and would he be dumb enough to bury her in his garden?' People do such things.

Another thought is.. what if you could tunnel from his underground basement?

I don't know what to think really. I just get the feeling Birch is not working alone. Could he be working for TM?

IF it's all a load of evil, silly rubbish, what could possibly be in it for Birch? Any ideas? This is what baffles me the most.

Oh questions questions questions. It's not as if this case hasn't enough unanswered questions as it is!

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  LJC on Wed 11 Jul - 17:41

So, we are being asked to believe that as well as an abductor entering the McCanns apartment without being seen and making off with Madeleine, the abductor having previously watched the apartment for several hours/days, also that Robert Murat's mother's garden has been entered by Stephen Birch, again without being seen, he having previously watched the garden for several hours/days. There are some very strange goings on in one little town in a sleepy part of the Algarve if you ask me.

I still think that the images purported to be taken by Birch should be compared to those taken by the PJ to see how they differ, if at all. Either Birch should be asked to explain why his image of the same piece of ground is different to that of the PJ's, or the PJ should be asked to explain why they do not have an image of this particular piece of ground that makes a comparison impossible.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  tanszi on Wed 11 Jul - 17:45

first of all, the lawyer says the PH should investigate, is he saying this on the instructions of the McCs, if not shut up, if he is then why are they saying differently in the UK. When please can someone give me dates of when this Stephen Birch did his detective stint with his geo thingy. All so strrange i agree, no one sees an abductor, no one sees anyone in their garden which is guarded by several dogs, and not only that he went back several times. very strange.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 18:12



I just posted this on the Radiotalk thread but but deleted it because I think it is more relevant here.


Yes, LJC, I think the PJ could have satisfied themselves that Birch was wrong. No one is sure anyway what the object is if the scan by the PJ proves Mr Birch right.

I just listened to the talk on the Radio and even though Black was given a rough ride by the Interviewer he stuck to his story. However, when he said he was in London to meet an Attorney to represent him , I wondered if he was being charged with an offence or just gearing himself up when the Murats
threatened to sue him for entry on their Property and by inference accusing Murat . There has been no response from him or his Mother but even if
the PJ does not investigate the stigma against Robert will remain. If he has nothing to hide let Black dig up the area and repair the damage .

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  pennylane on Wed 11 Jul - 18:17

Panda wrote:

I just posted this on the Radiotalk thread but but deleted it because I think it is more relevant here.


Yes, LJC, I think the PJ could have satisfied themselves that Birch was wrong. No one is sure anyway what the object is if the scan by the PJ proves Mr Birch right.

I just listened to the talk on the Radio and even though Black was given a rough ride by the Interviewer he stuck to his story. However, when he said he was in London to meet an Attorney to represent him , I wondered if he was being charged with an offence or just gearing himself up when the Murats
threatened to sue him for entry on their Property and by inference accusing Murat . There has been no response from him or his Mother but even if
the PJ does not investigate the stigma against Robert will remain. If he has nothing to hide let Birch dig up the area and repair the damage .

Absolutely!

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 18:49

pennylane wrote:
Panda wrote:

I just posted this on the Radiotalk thread but but deleted it because I think it is more relevant here.


Yes, LJC, I think the PJ could have satisfied themselves that Birch was wrong. No one is sure anyway what the object is if the scan by the PJ proves Mr Birch right.

I just listened to the talk on the Radio and even though Black was given a rough ride by the Interviewer he stuck to his story. However, when he said he was in London to meet an Attorney to represent him , I wondered if he was being charged with an offence or just gearing himself up when the Murats
threatened to sue him for entry on their Property and by inference accusing Murat . There has been no response from him or his Mother but even if
the PJ does not investigate the stigma against Robert will remain. If he has nothing to hide let Birch dig up the area and repair the damage .


Absolutely!


Hi pennylane, Iv'e been wondering why the McCanns have kept quiet and put it down to the fact that 4 of the Tapas Group fingered Murat and if the
McCanns openly demanded the site be dug up, they could well be charged by Murat if nothing was found. I'm sure they were contacted by Duarte
and Alves as to what to do, Lawyers would never act like that without consulting their Clients first.




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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Karen on Wed 11 Jul - 18:51

Panda wrote:
Karen wrote:Thanks for that

Hi Karen, so the McCanns are refuting any suggestion that Birch could be right, but their Lawyers are at odds. Why didn't Black just ask Mrs Murat for permission if she was confident nothing would be found she would have no objection.

If Murat had killed Madeleine would he be stupid enough to bury her body in his Garden.???? He would have driven to the clliffs and disposed of her body
there.

Hi Panda Yep, its seems that way, Lady Kate seemed to have brushed SB off in her ITV "speech" yesterday, I think lawyers at odds in knowing the cans of worms have opened and this will not go away, As for RM I dont beleive RM is stupid enough to bury Maddie in is back garden in fact I do NOT believe he had anything to do with her ''abduction" I do however have from the onset had a niggling feeling that he is somehow involved in the cover-up I may be wrong, hope I am but the feeling just wont go away. I am on the fence with Murat and Malinka - calls records show that both Murats and Gerry's phones were sitched of for 31hrs and 23minutes If I was Jenny or Robert I would insist on an excavation as a matter of extreme urgency and if nothing is found then perhaps sue SB (fine in Portugal for tresspassing 2.550euros)

Here are some interesting tweets
dewi lennard‏@kikoratton

@missingpeople Do you know that Gerry ‪#McCann‬ fiddled the attendance of Maddie at creche, from 29 April? Tantamount 2 saying she was dead.
Expand

10 Juldewi lennard‏@kikoratton

@missingpeople Ask Kate y Gerry ‪#McCann‬ and ‪#Murat‬ both turned off mobiles for 31h 24 minutes, imm after latter had spoken with ‪#Pagarete‬.

Expand
10 Juldewi lennard‏@kikoratton

@missingpeople Did you ask ‪#McCann‬ who her special "friend" was at Mercia Tng, Whetstone, whose contacts she tried to delete?

10 Juldewi lennard‏@kikoratton

@missingpeople Did you ask ‪#McCann‬ why she tried to delete nearly all of her mobile contacts in the 48 hours before Maddie went "missing"?

The above tweets have also been sent by him to Missing Children - his information has been passed onto the PJ as well, he seems to have inside information or at least way more than we or at least I do.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 19:00



Wow Karen.......this is powerful stuff if true. This guy seems to know what he is talking about if he has e-mailed missing people and the PJ.....the plot
thickens. We can't take much more of this can we, our nerves won't stand it.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Karen on Wed 11 Jul - 19:09

Panda wrote:

Wow Karen.......this is powerful stuff if true. This guy seems to know what he is talking about if he has e-mailed missing people and the PJ.....the plot
thickens. We can't take much more of this can we, our nerves won't stand it.

and thats just a few - he has proof and exposed all phones records and firmly believes that Maddie was dead by the 1st May 2007 and another child was signed in as Maddie her name being MADELENE both Kate and Gerry fake signature

My nerves are about shot by now but hanging on to the hope that the case will be re-opened shortly I have a really strong feeling it IS going to happen

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Wed 11 Jul - 20:08

Dewi Lennard is a researcher on the Jill Havern site under the name of Kikoraton. His phone records data is very interesting but I'm having trouble getting my head round the idea that another child might have been passed off as Madeleine.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  pennylane on Wed 11 Jul - 20:15

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Dewi Lennard is a researcher on the Jill Havern site under the name of Kikoraton. His phone records data is very interesting but I'm having trouble getting my head round the idea that another child might have been passed off as Madeleine.

Yes, my sentiments exactly, NBY. I have followed this theory closely in the past, and I am just not convinced.


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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 20:25

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Dewi Lennard is a researcher on the Jill Havern site under the name of Kikoraton. His phone records data is very interesting but I'm having trouble getting my head round the idea that another child might have been passed off as Madeleine.

Hi NBY, is that what he is suggesting. I remember seeing the page where there was no sign out for Madeleine, but Gerry had signed on the line above by mistake. The phone records were asked to be used by the PJ but a Judge said that was too intrusive.....just whose side was the Judge on?
This was a case of a child supposedly abducted with absolutely no evidence to back this up , discrepancies in the Tapas 9 Statements, yet a Judge precludes evidence which could have proved vital.

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Phone and creche records

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Wed 11 Jul - 20:41

Yes Panda he does think that someone else was being signed in. There is a long topic on the JH site but it did get a bit bogged down with trolls and time wasters so I won't put a link to it.

I do think it's possible that something happened to Madeleine prior to the evening of 3rd May so an explanation would be needed as to how she was still being signed in and out of the creche; perhaps it's all down to sloppy creche records.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  Panda on Wed 11 Jul - 20:55

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Yes Panda he does think that someone else was being signed in. There is a long topic on the JH site but it did get a bit bogged down with trolls and time wasters so I won't put a link to it.

I do think it's possible that something happened to Madeleine prior to the evening of 3rd May so an explanation would be needed as to how she was still being signed in and out of the creche; perhaps it's all down to sloppy creche records.

Hi NBY

Amaral confirmed that Madeleine was last seen at 5.30pm on 3rd May so I would regard his evidence as the most important and I don't subscribe to the theory of all the children in one room on the 2nd.. what would be the reason for it?. For a start the Payne's wouldn't agree because they had a Baby
monitor and their apartment was further away from the others. Secondly Madeleine was known to be a light sleeper and creep into her Parents bed if
she woke up. The McCanns knew she had been crying the night before so what if she cried again on the 2nd and woke the others...it just doesn't
make sense.

Iv'e had enough of the McCanns for one day, gonna watch a Film. G'night all

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  whatsupdoc on Wed 11 Jul - 21:07

I've followed kikoratton on twitter for quite some time.I believe he is ex-intelligence with a good knowledge of phone systems.

He has shown the creche records to have been forged. From what I have seen , I go along with that. I think , as he does, that Madeleine died on the Saturday night and Madelene was substituted straight away so the real Madeleine was never seen in the creche.

The pattern of the mobile calls seem to indicate this. A quiet day on the Monday, I think it was, when Madeleine may have been taken far away.

If this Madelene was substituted, how convienient was that? Or was it preplanned. So many questions.Was it Madelene Naylor or another name which cropped up?

I like to tackle one problem at a time and I am not good at juggling. This case has too many questions and too many people involved.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  meg on Wed 11 Jul - 21:11

GA is adamant that the last time Madeleine was seen
was 5.30pm on the 3rd and I feel for him to be so sure
there is more than just a Nanny statement

Maybe the discepencies are for different reasons

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  T4two on Wed 11 Jul - 21:22

whatsupdoc wrote:I've followed kikoratton on twitter for quite some time.I believe he is ex-intelligence with a good knowledge of phone systems.

He has shown the creche records to have been forged. From what I have seen , I go along with that. I think , as he does, that Madeleine died on the Saturday night and Madelene was substituted straight away so the real Madeleine was never seen in the creche.

The pattern of the mobile calls seem to indicate this. A quiet day on the Monday, I think it was, when Madeleine may have been taken far away.

If this Madelene was substituted, how convienient was that? Or was it preplanned. So many questions.Was it Madelene Naylor or another name which cropped up?

I like to tackle one problem at a time and I am not good at juggling. This case has too many questions and too many people involved.

If that were the case, then Dr. Amaral could of course be 100% correct that the child purporting to be Madeleine McCann was last seen on the 3rd at 17:30 h. That means that Amaral's certainty in no way rules out a substitution.


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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  whatsupdoc on Wed 11 Jul - 21:24

I trust GA and have wondered whether he is just saying May 3rd to be generous to the McCanns. I hope it all does come out in the wash one day.

I must say, for a family holiday, the number of phone calls was very high...more like a working break.

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  kitti on Wed 11 Jul - 21:29

Everything that happened HAPPENED before may 3rd

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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Post  meg on Wed 11 Jul - 21:48

If it all happened before the 3rd the as a poster above has stated GA must be
giving them a way out by saying the 3rd for accidental death

Also in the first few days they made a few errors before the protection machine
really got going so therefore did they have a plan a that didn't work and resorted
to plan b which left them winging it a bit?

To me there is a definite power struggle going on between government, NI, the mccanns and even robert murat
to a lesser degree

Whoever is being shielded is higher than government for 3 leaders to protect them


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Re: McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

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